Erik Walden better than Dwight Freeney?

[NewColtsFan]

Your OK NCF, I'm just a little on edge today.

 

 

Feels like I've been that way for more than a year now!!

 

                (ya think maybe I should stop smashing my head against a wall?!?)

[John Dee]

Does GB have a S?    

 

I mean seriously...   I get that the E and LB's got beat....  but ALL THE WAY TO THE END ZONE?

 

Oh...  Woodson did get cut...        hhehe .

My most recent memory of Erik Walden is how Kaepernick killed him and the Packers D (he was the scapegoat though) in the playoffs...

 

Let's hope we're not getting that Erik Walden.

[John Dee]

NFC...     Indy has had a horrible history of stopping the RUN.   

 

I think these signings are geared toward that.

 

Getting to the passer.....   ??   We shall see...    losing Freeney won't hurt us.     Can't miss what we didn't have for the last few years.

Well...  if Mathis gets 10+ and Walden gets 5,  then we're in the ballpark for the 16 I desire for the two OLB's...

 

That said....   I'm just not sure where the rest of the sacks/pressure are coming from.    And I haven't forgotten Hughes & Sidbury.     But our DL's are not known for sacking/pressuring the QB.    So, we're running out of options.    We'll get the occasional sack from a blitzing ILB. or Safety,  or even Corner...   but, I don't see it happening week in and week out....

 

Maybe this falls under the category of Rome not being built in a day.   Maybe we're two drafts and another FA year away from having more pressure on the QB.    Hope not,  but that's what it feels like today, in mid-March....

[atapcl]

Walden is an edge setting outside linebacker for the 3-4. Freeney is strictly a 4-3 DE who tried to convert to rush linebacker. I believe Freeney will someday make it to the Hall of Fame. I have not seen Walden do anything yet to rate a Hall of Fame vote. I hope he plays well enough to warrent the contract he got and if he does our defense will be the better for it.

It's a different position.

[USAFHoosier]

Irsay said Mathis will be the rush LBer and Walden will be the strong side LBer. Walden's strength is setting the edge. This is why I can't understand why everybody keeps saying they're worried about pass rush. Mathis was our best pass rusher last yr. from the strong side, he should be better from the rush side.

Right with you.  And with all the quality pieces added to the Dline the pass rush will be that much better.

[John Dee]

DFree ain't gettin to the HOF....

 

And Walden will be an upgrade simply due to the fact he can TACKLE.....     or at least TRY ..

 

ehheeh. 

Walden is an edge setting outside linebacker for the 3-4. Freeney is strictly a 4-3 DE who tried to convert to rush linebacker. I believe Freeney will someday make it to the Hall of Fame. I have not seen Walden do anything yet to rate a Hall of Fame vote. I hope he plays well enough to warrent the contract he got and if he does our defense will be the better for it.

[Superman]

Well...  if Mathis gets 10+ and Walden gets 5,  then we're in the ballpark for the 16 I desire for the two OLB's...

 

That said....   I'm just not sure where the rest of the sacks/pressure are coming from.    And I haven't forgotten Hughes & Sidbury.     But our DL's are not known for sacking/pressuring the QB.    So, we're running out of options.    We'll get the occasional sack from a blitzing ILB. or Safety,  or even Corner...   but, I don't see it happening week in and week out....

 

Maybe this falls under the category of Rome not being built in a day.   Maybe we're two drafts and another FA year away from having more pressure on the QB.    Hope not,  but that's what it feels like today, in mid-March....

 

The draft could yield another pass rusher.

 

But it's very much a collective effort, given the responsibilities that your primary pass rushers have in run support. Terrell Suggs plays a lot slower than Mathis and Freeney ever did in our old defense, and it's because he has to watch the run. That slows your pass rush down just a little. But we also blitzed more than anyone else last year, a trend I expect to continue moving forward. The scheme prefers to manufacture a pass rush as opposed to letting a designated rusher just pin his ears back every down.

 

Let's say you want 45 sacks. Mathis with 11, Hughes with 7, Walden with 5, and you're already halfway there with 23. You get another guy up to 5, and get two or three out of a few other linemen, and you're within shouting distance. I just don't think you're going to see Walden all over the quarterback all season long.

[NewColtsFan]

NFC...     Indy has had a horrible history of stopping the RUN.   

 

I think these signings are geared toward that.

 

Getting to the passer.....   ??   We shall see...    losing Freeney won't hurt us.     Can't miss what we didn't have for the last few years.

 

Thanks,  John....   always appreciate the good 411....

 

I really don't have issues with the signings,  hope it hasn't come across that way.    I'm only trying to convey a need for more Building of the Monster.    As much as we've built,  I think there is more to do.

 

Perhaps some comes in the draft?    Perhaps some comes in 2014?    I just think we need more....

 

Finally,  we agree on the Freeney issue....   he may fit better elsewhere,  but he was no longer the right fit in Indy....

[Dustin]

DFree ain't gettin to the HOF....

And Walden will be an upgrade simply due to the fact he can TACKLE..... or at least TRy

ehheeh.

No offense bro, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think Dfree will make the HOF.

[atapcl]

Pagano seemed to indicate that the talent he has now will allow him to develop the defensive scheme the way he intended. Mathis may lead the team in sacks but I look for several others to get 3 - 5 sacks and have a team total of 40 or more. Sidbury is supposed to be  a talented rush linebacker who could get 4 - 8 sacks in a year with enough plays.

[Superman]

Walden is an edge setting outside linebacker for the 3-4. Freeney is strictly a 4-3 DE who tried to convert to rush linebacker. I believe Freeney will someday make it to the Hall of Fame. I have not seen Walden do anything yet to rate a Hall of Fame vote. I hope he plays well enough to warrent the contract he got and if he does our defense will be the better for it.

 

Okay, I see your point. But it's a different position. Jarrett Johnson isn't going to the HOF, but he plays the Sam backer spot ten times better than Freeney could. Because it's a different position. There's little use comparing Walden to Freeney.

[CardiacColts]

Irsay said Mathis will be the rush LBer and Walden will be the strong side LBer. Walden's strength is setting the edge. This is why I can't understand why everybody keeps saying they're worried about pass rush. Mathis was our best pass rusher last yr. from the strong side, he should be better from the rush side.

Good point. What if we alter the question to be, "Is our LB corps as a whole better with Walden in it than DFree?" To that I would say yes, as Walden is a more natural fit than Mathis in the "coverage/ edge setting role," and Mathis at this stage is definitely an upgrade to DFree in the "rush" backer role. As others have mentioned, the significantly upgraded D line should allow our LB corps to be far more productive than last year as a group. I'm thinking this D should be nasty!

[John Dee]

No...   I'm not...  He is NOT going to the HOF... 

No offense bro, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think Dfree will make the HOF.

[Superman]

Pagano seemed to indicate that the talent he has now will allow him to develop the defensive scheme the way he intended. Mathis may lead the team in sacks but I look for several others to get 3 - 5 sacks and have a team total of 40 or more. Sidbury is supposed to be  a talented rush linebacker who could get 4 - 8 sacks in a year with enough plays.

 

I don't think anyone is hanging their hat on Sidbury. I think he's probably just someone who caught Grigson's eye a long time ago, and he wanted to add him to the mix. If he gets 4-8 sacks next year, he'll be a freaking steal.

[John Dee]

hehe...    No problem...   

 

I realize I am not an ESPN insider but I do know my squad...   

 

;)

 

Thanks,  John....   always appreciate the good 411....

 

I really don't have issues with the signings,  hope it hasn't come across that way.    I'm only trying to convey a need for more Building of the Monster.    As much as we've built,  I think there is more to do.

 

Perhaps some comes in the draft?    Perhaps some comes in 2014?    I just think we need more....

 

Finally,  we agree on the Freeney issue....   he may fit better elsewhere,  but he was no longer the right fit in Indy....

[atapcl]

Actually I am agreeing with you. If I misled you, I apologize. Freeney is a hall of fame DE but not a good SSLB, so they can not be compared.

Okay, I see your point. But it's a different position. Jarrett Johnson isn't going to the HOF, but he plays the Sam backer spot ten times better than Freeney could. Because it's a different position. There's little use comparing Walden to Freeney.

[The Peytonator]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/13/2013-free-agency-deal-grader/

 

Go to the bottom of the article and you'll see why I don't like this signing. In 2011 Walden was the lowest rated 3-4 OLB and he got 700,000 from GB for 2012. This year he was the lowest rated 3-4 OLB, but he had his best game ever against us so we sign him for $4 mil a year.

 

Sorry to anyone taking the 'wait and see' approach, but in his five years in the league he has done nothing. Why would a move to Indy change that? I've loved everything Grigson has done as our GM, but this really was a head scratcher. We could of had Michael Bennett for $5 mil....a far superior edge defender and pass rusher.

[Dustin]

... I'm not... He is NOT going to the HOF...

He will, he's been the most dominating pass rusher over the past 10 years and has been to 8 pro bowls, had multiple all pros and was selected to the all-decade team. the only question is whether or not it's first ballot.

[jtrester]

We are comparing apples to oranges.  These are two completely different players.  Dwight is not what he was in his prime, but in a 4-3 with real interior line presence and a decent secondary he is still more effective than 90% of like players in the league.

 

He never fit the 3-4 scheme....he was never comfortable, nor should he have been.  Walden is a 3-4 guy.  If you compare them to their natural position, Dwight is much better....he just isn't better at OLB.

[John Dee]

Ya folks are banging down DFree's door to sign him...   

 

He was FANTASTIC in his prime...     but he is a shadow of himself anymore...  

 

And I don't think he is a HOF'r...   J Peppers is a HOF....    DF?    well if sacks only get one in then ya...  maybe...   

 

But I would like to think the HOF was meant for players that DID IT ALL. 

 

JMO>...

We are comparing apples to oranges.  These are two completely different players.  Dwight is not what he was in his prime, but in a 4-3 with real interior line presence and a decent secondary he is still more effective than 90% of like players in the league.

 

He never fit the 3-4 scheme....he was never comfortable, nor should he have been.  Walden is a 3-4 guy.  If you compare them to their natural position, Dwight is much better....he just isn't better at OLB.

[Superman]

Actually I am agreeing with you. If I misled you, I apologize. Freeney is a hall of fame DE but not a good SSLB, so they can not be compared.

 

Cool deal.

[jvan1973]

No... I'm not... He is NOT going to the HOF...

I'll take hall of famer Bruce smiths opinion

[John Dee]

Bruce Smith was an ANIMAL...   

 

That is my idea of a HOF DE.....        DOMINANT  in every way.

 

Dwight....      just a great pass rusher.

I'll take hall of famer Bruce smiths opinion

[Superman]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/13/2013-free-agency-deal-grader/

 

Go to the bottom of the article and you'll see why I don't like this signing. In 2011 Walden was the lowest rated 3-4 OLB and he got 700,000 from GB for 2012. This year he was the lowest rated 3-4 OLB, but he had his best game ever against us so we sign him for $4 mil a year.

 

Sorry to anyone taking the 'wait and see' approach, but in his five years in the league he has done nothing. Why would a move to Indy change that? I've loved everything Grigson has done as our GM, but this really was a head scratcher. We could of had Michael Bennett for $5 mil....a far superior edge defender and pass rusher.

 

Different position. If you wanted Bennett, it wouldn't have been at the expense of Walden, or vice versa.  And that difference in position likely has a lot to do with the way PFF rated Walden.

 

I agree that Walden's contract is a head scratcher, but it's not the end of the world, even if he sucks. Grigson and Pagano obviously wanted him.

[jvan1973]

Bruce Smith was an ANIMAL...

That is my idea of a HOF DE..... DOMINANT in every way.

Dwight.... just a great pass rusher.

Bruce Smith thinks Freeney is a hall of famer

[John Dee]

k

Bruce Smith thinks Freeney is a hall of famer

[USAFHoosier]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/13/2013-free-agency-deal-grader/

 

Go to the bottom of the article and you'll see why I don't like this signing. In 2011 Walden was the lowest rated 3-4 OLB and he got 700,000 from GB for 2012. This year he was the lowest rated 3-4 OLB, but he had his best game ever against us so we sign him for $4 mil a year.

 

Sorry to anyone taking the 'wait and see' approach, but in his five years in the league he has done nothing. Why would a move to Indy change that? I've loved everything Grigson has done as our GM, but this really was a head scratcher. We could of had Michael Bennett for $5 mil....a far superior edge defender and pass rusher.

Bennett could not play OLB though.  He will be playing DT/DE in seattle.  Walden was prolly the only proven OLB in FA. Everyone else would have been an experiment like Freeney and mathis last year.

[John Dee]

look at these stats...    and tell me DFree is a HOF...  

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/sacks_career.htm

 

IF DF is ...  he will have a very LONG wait.

Bruce Smith thinks Freeney is a hall of famer

[bahhummbug]

My most recent memory of Erik Walden is how Kaepernick killed him and the Packers D (he was the scapegoat though) in the playoffs...

 

Let's hope we're not getting that Erik Walden.

Can you out run Kaepernick

[Andy]

Can you out run Kaepernick

 

Of course I can...

 

...in a golf cart. 

[Dustin]

look at these stats... and tell me DFree is a HOF...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/sacks_career.htm

IF DF is ... he will have a very LONG wait.

DFree is a HOFer.

[Coffeedrinker]

A couple of funny things about this thread.

 

1.)  According to Profootball Focus Freeney was still excellent at rushing the passer last year.  It was his run defense that was not good.

 

2.)  According to the same site, Walden was the worst 3-4 LB in 2011 and 2012.  New scenery may do him good but not real excited about this move.

 

3.)  I've been posting on this board for a while now and while I have not read every post I have read a good many and I have never once heard a fan say, "this defense needs someone to set the edge" until, that is, the Colts signed Walden and Grigson claimed he is good at "setting the edge."  Now every many fans on this site talk about setting the edge as the most obvious problem the Colts D had and Walden is the solution for that problem that the fans have known existed all of last year.

[NewEra]

Hold on now....

You can't understand why??? Really?

Let's see if this helps..... other than Mathis, now in the rush OLB spot, where are we supposed to get some pressure on the QB?

(this is where the Jeopardy music comes in while you take time to consider your answer)

The answer? The other OLB spot. So, Walden, while his main responsibility is to set the edge, also has to provide a lot of pressure. Otherwise, we've got one guy and teams can always scheme to handle that one guy.

In fact, I'm not even happy with the idea of two guys being able to pressure. I want as many as the Colts can find. There is no such thing in the modern NFL as having too many guys who can rush the quarterback.

I hope our D-Lineman can provide some pressure, but I'm very Missouri on them until they can show me something.....

We were terrible last year pressuring the QB. We were terrible last year in forcing turnovers. Both areas have to get dramatically better. Some of that has to come from Walden.....

The beauty of running a 3/4 is being able to bring pressure and blitz from all over. Meaning its not on just the olb. We can bring a ilb, cb, s. although I think walden will be fine. Not to mention we will be rotating olbers so constant fresh legs running rampage!!

[John Dee]

I don't give a dang whether he gets in or not ...

 

That said ...  there are 13 players ahead of him in sacks NOT in the HOF..     4 of which are active.

 

Unless he explodes this year he is not getting a sniff of the HOF.

[Dustin]

I don't give a dang whether he gets in or not ...

I

That said ... there are 13 players ahead of him in sacks NOT in the HOF.. 4 of which are active.

Unless he explodes this year he is not getting a sniff of the HOF.

I'm sure the voting comitte would disagree.

[John Dee]

Yep... and the Jets and Browns had top 5 OL's too according to PFF...  

 

Sigh.....         I've tried to tell em....   ;)

 

I'd like your post but I'm out.     Sometimes I wonder if any of these "professionals" ever watch a pro football game?

 

A couple of funny things about this thread.

 

1.)  According to Profootball Focus Freeney was still excellent at rushing the passer last year.  It was his run defense that was not good.

 

2.)  According to the same site, Walden was the worst 3-4 LB in 2011 and 2012.  New scenery may do him good but not real excited about this move.

 

3.)  I've been posting on this board for a while now and while I have not read every post I have read a good many and I have never once heard a fan say, "this defense needs someone to set the edge" until, that is, the Colts signed Walden and Grigson claimed he is good at "setting the edge."  Now every many fans on this site talk about setting the edge as the most obvious problem the Colts D had and Walden is the solution for that problem that the fans have known existed all of last year.

[John Dee]

He better hope....    

I'm sure the voting comitte would disagree.

[The Peytonator]

Different position. If you wanted Bennett, it wouldn't have been at the expense of Walden, or vice versa.  And that difference in position likely has a lot to do with the way PFF rated Walden.

 

I agree that Walden's contract is a head scratcher, but it's not the end of the world, even if he sucks. Grigson and Pagano obviously wanted him.

 

Both guys play the run on the edge, both guys rush the passer. It's not like a 4-3 end has never been able to switch to 3-4 OLB, or vice versa. Bennett is just a guy that shuts down the run and isn't a half bad pass rusher either. Walden probably spends more time in coverage, but being a 34 OLB he would be doing so very rarely. I know his contract isn't the end of the world, but it's definitely a minor blip on an otherwise excellent offseason.

[Superman]

A couple of funny things about this thread.

1.) According to Profootball Focus Freeney was still excellent at rushing the passer last year. It was his run defense that was not good.

2.) According to the same site, Walden was the worst 3-4 LB in 2011 and 2012. New scenery may do him good but not real excited about this move.

3.) I've been posting on this board for a while now and while I have not read every post I have read a good many and I have never once heard a fan say, "this defense needs someone to set the edge" until, that is, the Colts signed Walden and Grigson claimed he is good at "setting the edge." Now every many fans on this site talk about setting the edge as the most obvious problem the Colts D had and Walden is the solution for that problem that the fans have known existed all of last year.

We spent a lot of time talking about setting the edge in run containment once Pagano was hired. Maybe for some this is about justifying a weird signing, but it's not for me. This defense needs the OLBs to contain the run.

Also, PFF lumps all "edge defenders" in as one, without regard for the different responsibilities of each one. Freeney is a different "edge defender" from Walden, who is a different "edge defender" from Kruger. They were all OLBs last year, but it's really three different positions. PFF's rankings, while helpful in certain respects, don't take that into consideration. They really can't.

[The Peytonator]

3.)  I've been posting on this board for a while now and while I have not read every post I have read a good many and I have never once heard a fan say, "this defense needs someone to set the edge" until, that is, the Colts signed Walden and Grigson claimed he is good at "setting the edge."  Now every many fans on this site talk about setting the edge as the most obvious problem the Colts D had and Walden is the solution for that problem that the fans have known existed all of last year.

 

Funny how that works. Anyone can 'set the edge', but what separates good OLBs from bad ones is their ability to actually make a play on the ball carrier. If Walden tackles the RB after an 8 yard carry on a drag down tackle, and Von Miller beats his man and stuffs it for a half yard gain, who's the better edge guy? I know that's comparing apples and oranges, but a lot of people are bringing up Walden's tackle numbers like it means something.