Do you think Xavier Rhodes will fall to us at 24?

[Zachris]

For the umpteen millionth time... we have 5 bigger needs to address.

Where I agree with you, if in FA we don't grab a few OL, I will agree, please go line here. If we do grab a OG/OT or OG/OG, I am good with us looking at a CB in the first round, if one of those three are available.

I would be more disappointed if we draft a RB or WR in the first round.

[sultan5]

No way. i was hoping he wouldnt do so well at the combine but he did. I cant see us trading up to get him either. Sure wish he did fall though. Rhodes and Davis would be a fearful tandem for years to come. but we can only dream.

[LockeDown]

Trufant would be nice but he is said to lack physicality and is a poor tackler. That is not exactly what we need.

[sultan5]

If we use our 1st round draft pick on a CB I will be very disappointed in Grigson/Pagano.

 WHY?! i mean, really?! look, friend, remember the last great cornerback that we had........yeah, thats what im saying. now can you think of the last cornerback that we drafted in the first round? It seems with cornerbacks, you get what you pay for. Look at Vontae. man is he worth it. Remember Marlin Jackson, before injuries sidelined his carreer? I would not be dissapointed at all if we got Rhodes. Banks isnt near as Physical as Rhodes. If we dont get Rhodes, i would go for Hunt...the Eastern Block.

[BOTT]

Interesting that Rhodes skipped the cone drills at the combine. Considering his impressive size, I imagine scouts wanted to see his change of direction and lateral speed.....how convenient

[Gavin]

Interesting that Rhodes skipped the cone drills at the combine. Considering his impressive size, I imagine scouts wanted to see his change of direction and lateral speed.....how convenient

Im sure if scouts wanted to see that all they would have to do is look at a few games worth of film, Its not really that big of deal in my opinion what he does out of pads in the combine, whats he do in pads in a game? 

[BOTT]

Im sure if scouts wanted to see that all they would have to do is look at a few games worth of film, Its not really that big of deal in my opinion what he does out of pads in the combine, whats he do in pads in a game? 

Yet everybody gets hot and bothered over his forty time and how far he can jump. And some of the scouting reports were worried about his stiffness from watching tape...but he makes up for it by getting away with clutching and grabbing he may not get away with in the nfl.

[Hans Moleman]

For the umpteen millionth time... we have 5 bigger needs to address.

 

Finding draft value for teams means finding the point where quality of the prospect and positional need intersect. Pick out the highest point, that's who you choose. That's the BPA philosophy in a nutshell. An easy way to chart it mathematically would be to use a need multiplier to multiply by the player's grade your scouts give him. Then use that adjusted grade to sort your big board.

 

We're not at the place where we have many spots with zero positional need. CB certainly isn't one of them. If Rhodes is that much more highly rated at CB than the other available players at positions of bigger need, we better take him. 

 

That said, since we don't know how our staff is rating these guys in the first place, we won't know if we reached to fill a need or not. 

[smittywerb]

No way we should go offense with the first pick when we almost went all offense last year.  Only way we'll draft an offensive player with the first pick is if a sure OL pick falls to us (which is unlikely).  First pick will either be BPA at our needs and it seems like a lot of DB's are going to fall.  Chances are CB will be our pick.  I'm glad with any of the top 3 CB prospects.

[manning04]

I don't think Rhodes falls to us. I think we would have to move up. 

[HarassedOffTheSite]

"...since we don't know how our staff is rating these guys in the first place, we won't know..."

 

The operative sentence.

Regardless, we have greater needs than CB.

[TKnight24]

I'm still pulling for Matt Elam or Kenny Vaccaro in the 1st.

I'm just pulling for any Texas Longhorn or TCU Horned Frog to be a Colt this year honestly

[Superman]

The operative sentence.

Regardless, we have greater needs than CB.

Free agency allows you to address your needs, especially when you have $40m in cap space like we do.

I believe offensive line is more important than corner right now, but corner is easily the second biggest need on the roster, IMO. And given the weak CB class in free agency, I'd rather see us draft a corner. And Rhodes seems to be a good candidate.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

"...I believe offensive line is more important than corner right now, but corner is easily the second biggest need..."

 

No. You (the other Cornerbackites) and I simply disagree.

 

On Defense, Dwight Freeney's replacement is the biggest need...not Cassius Vaughn's.

 

After that it is open to debate but I'd much rather go Defensive End and then Safety. Corner Back is my last priority on Defense.

[Charliemac24]

No. You (the other Cornerbackites) and I simply disagree.

On Defense, Dwight Freeney's replacement is the biggest need...not Cassius Vaughn's.

After that it is open to debate but I'd much rather go Defensive End and then Safety. Corner Back is my last priority on Defense.

Why dont u think corner is the biggest need....we got tore out the frame damn near every game last year in the passing game.....i think we were the only team to have a receiver get 100 yards on us

[funktacious2]

No, I don't think Rhodes with fall to us, but I'd be okay if we took him if he does. I just don't want Johnathan Banks. I never liked his play in games and highlights I've seen, and he did not look like a 1st rounder at the combine. 

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Why dont u think corner is the biggest need....?

 

A. Firstly because the team that can run the ball and stop the run will win the overwhelming majority of their games. To do that you need NTs, DEs & LBs.

 

B. Secondly the easiest way of defending against the pass begins and ends with taking the opposing QB out of his game. To do that you need OLBs who can rush that QB and NTs, DEs that can collapse his pocket. OLBs that can cover the TEs. And only after those, man cover CBs to defend the WRs who that QB is desperately throwing to.

 

We are a team being set up to run the ball first and stop the run first. Not pass the ball first and defend against the pass first (and even if we were, refer to B).

 

Those are the reasons why corner is not our biggest need.

[LockeDown]

I would rather get a CB in FA than to draft a CB just for the sake of it (assuming Rhodes is gone).  It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if we drafted nothing but linemen in this draft.  That's what it's deep in and that's what we need. 

[Superman]

No. You (the other Cornerbackites) and I simply disagree.

 

On Defense, Dwight Freeney's replacement is the biggest need...not Cassius Vaughn's.

 

After that it is open to debate but I'd much rather go Defensive End and then Safety. Corner Back is my last priority on Defense.

 

I'm a Cornerbackite because I think we need a corner? Technically, we only have two cornerbacks under contract for 2013: Vontae Davis and Teddy Williams. It is an immediate need. That someone considers it a last priority on defense is kind of shocking to me; I would have thought that general consensus would place cornerback at or near the top of the list of defensive needs going in to next year. I've seen a lot of opinions, and I think you're the first I've seen suggest that cornerback isn't a definite need.

 

And let's say that your order is correct -- I disagree, but whatever -- shouldn't we be addressing our needs in free agency instead of the draft? If we need a pass rusher more than we need a cornerback (again, debatable), shouldn't we be trying to sign a pass rusher? And wouldn't the same go for the rest of our needs? If there's ever been a season for the Colts to be active in free agency, it's this season, with tons of cap space to pursue players and fill holes. If we get out of the first couple weeks of free agency without having presumably filled at least three needs, I'll think less of our front office than I do now. 

 

I'm hoping the front office plugs holes in free agency, and then sticks to their board in the draft. Based on projections -- which are sometimes completely useless, I'll admit -- if a player like Rhodes lasts until #24, he'd be at or near the top of the list in rating and value. And he could potentially start for our defense right away. Even if the front office thinks pass rusher, end and safety are more important for our team (by the way, this draft is deep at all three, and there's a ton more value at safety from the third round on), I would hope they'd choose the better player. That's assuming they have Rhodes rated higher than the players still available at those positions. 

 

I guess we have significantly different perspectives and philosophies on how the team should address our needs this offseason. I would expect Grigson to fill the voids at offensive line and defensive front in free agency, freeing him to stick to his board in the draft. And projections say Rhodes is going to be one of the top guys available when we pick.

[Superman]

Why dont u think corner is the biggest need....we got tore out the frame darn near every game last year in the passing game.....i think we were the only team to have a receiver get 100 yards on us

 

 

A

Those are the reasons why corner is not our biggest need.

 

To my mind, we can forget about what the biggest need is, and where corner ranks on that list. I think and hope that we're using free agency to address our needs. 

[GoColts8818]

Something isn't adding up here.  If you listen to the reports from Colts insides they think the Colts are going to re-sign Powers.  National Reports have us linked to going after a corner in free agency.  Now the first round draft pick is being talked about being used on a corner plus we gave up our second round pick for Davis.  That would be four guys, three of which should probably be number one guys plus Powers who in theory should be a number two guy.  I just don't see the Colts going after that many cornerbacks but I could be wrong. 

[smittywerb]

No. You (the other Cornerbackites) and I simply disagree.

 

On Defense, Dwight Freeney's replacement is the biggest need...not Cassius Vaughn's.

 

After that it is open to debate but I'd much rather go Defensive End and then Safety. Corner Back is my last priority on Defense.

 

Well, from what I've seen it's a good number of OLB's coming into FA who can play so lucky us.

 

 

Something isn't adding up here.  If you listen to the reports from Colts insides they think the Colts are going to re-sign Powers.  National Reports have us linked to going after a corner in free agency.  Now the first round draft pick is being talked about being used on a corner plus we gave up our second round pick for Davis.  That would be four guys, three of which should probably be number one guys plus Powers who in theory should be a number two guy.  I just don't see the Colts going after that many cornerbacks but I could be wrong. 

 

Resign Powers or sign one in FA, draft a CB in the first, our CB situation is pretty much good for the next 5 years.

[GoColts8818]

Well, from what I've seen it's a good number of OLB's coming into FA who can play so lucky us.

 

 

 

Resign Powers or sign one in FA, draft a CB in the first, our CB situation is pretty much good for the next 5 years.

That's a lot of attention to the cornerback spot...

 

I don't see us in the course of a calendar year trading for a number one corner, signing a guy who could probably be a number one corner if not a high number two corner, re-signing a guy that is probably expected to be a number two corner and then use a first round draft pick on a guy who if drafted in the first round would be expected to be a number one corner.  I could see us doing two more of the later three I just don't see us doing all three of them but again I could be wrong. 

[smittywerb]

That's a lot of attention to the cornerback spot...

 

I don't see us in the course of a calendar year trading for a number one corner, signing a guy who could probably be a number one corner if not a high number two corner, re-signing a guy that is probably expected to be a number two corner and then use a first round draft pick on a guy who if drafted in the first round would be expected to be a number one corner.  I could see us doing two more of the later three I just don't see us doing all three of them but again I could be wrong. 

 

 

CB was one of our weak positions this year.  Also, it's an important position also because we'll never be able to get pressure on any team if we can't hold the WR's long enough.  If we can resign Powers for cheap and draft a CB to start next Davis or play the nickel, then why not take a chance?  Not saying you're wrong, but I feel that would be a quicker fix than drafting an OL that we know will take time to bloom or drafting a LB that isn't highly rated like the corner position is.  Thing is, at our position in the draft, we'll have a better chance of drafting a top 3 corner in the draft than any other position.  I'm all for drafting a sure fire OL if he falls to us though.

[Superman]

Something isn't adding up here.  If you listen to the reports from Colts insides they think the Colts are going to re-sign Powers.  National Reports have us linked to going after a corner in free agency.  Now the first round draft pick is being talked about being used on a corner plus we gave up our second round pick for Davis.  That would be four guys, three of which should probably be number one guys plus Powers who in theory should be a number two guy.  I just don't see the Colts going after that many cornerbacks but I could be wrong. 

 

I personally don't think we should sign a free agent corner, other than either Powers or Butler at the right price. But I mentioned above that we only have two corners under contract for 2013, and one of them was a deep reserve last year. The position is going to get attention.

 

And again, I would hope that, with our cap space, Grigson uses free agency to address positions of need, and frees himself up to draft according to his board. Even if he doesn't fill every hole in free agency, I'm sure he'll stick to his board. He did last year, and we had holes all over the roster. 

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I'm a Cornerbackite because I think we need a corner?

 

Cornerbackites is the name I have given to people heck bent on drafting a CB in the first round or running out and making it a priority Free Agency signing regardless/oblivious of our greater needs.

 

 

I think you're the first I've seen suggest that cornerback isn't a definite need.

 

If my comments have come across as saying we do not need more CBs then I have mispoken. We could use another but it is not a priority over other needs we have.

 

 

And let's say that your order is correct

 

It is.

 

 

shouldn't we be addressing our needs in free agency instead of the draft?

 

That is an option. The same way getting another CB through Free Agency is an option.

 

 

I'm hoping the front office plugs holes in free agency, and then sticks to their board in the draft.

 

As do I.

 

 

I guess we have significantly different perspectives and philosophies on how the team should address our needs this offseason.

 

Yeah, that's cool. ;)

[Balzer40]

I personally don't think we should sign a free agent corner, other than either Powers or Butler at the right price. But I mentioned above that we only have two corners under contract for 2013, and one of them was a deep reserve last year. The position is going to get attention.

 

And again, I would hope that, with our cap space, Grigson uses free agency to address positions of need, and frees himself up to draft according to his board. Even if he doesn't fill every hole in free agency, I'm sure he'll stick to his board. He did last year, and we had holes all over the roster. 

 

 

 

We need another CB or even 2 IMO. Personally, I would rather resign Butler than Powers and the only corner I would draft with our 1st pick would be Rhodes. I don't see Trufant as a press coverage guy IMO and I'm not sure Banks is even worthy of a 1st rd. pick. Unfortunately, I don't see Rhodes being an option where we pick so I would love to bring in a guy through free agency. I think we could also grab Amerson or Slay in the 3rd rd..

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I want to be clear; I have no problem with getting another Cornerback (my personal preference being Nnamdi Asomugha). I have simply taken issue with the incorrect notion (that has had a deathgrip hold on some in Colts fandom since Jeff Burris) that Cornerback is one of our top needs.

 

It just isn't. Nobody builds a Defense from the Cornerbacks in. And focusing on the Cornerbacks to the exclusion of Dline & LBs (be it on draft day or Free Agency) gives the impression that some Cornerbackites would.

 

[GoColts8818]

I personally don't think we should sign a free agent corner, other than either Powers or Butler at the right price. But I mentioned above that we only have two corners under contract for 2013, and one of them was a deep reserve last year. The position is going to get attention.

 

And again, I would hope that, with our cap space, Grigson uses free agency to address positions of need, and frees himself up to draft according to his board. Even if he doesn't fill every hole in free agency, I'm sure he'll stick to his board. He did last year, and we had holes all over the roster. 

That's kinda my point, I could see us drafting a corner in the first round and re-signing Powers, or singing a number one/two guy and drafting a corner in the first round, or even signing a number one/two guy and keeping Powers.  I just don't see us doing all three unless the guy we sign is a fourth of fifth corner or a later round draft pick. 

[GoColts8818]

CB was one of our weak positions this year.  Also, it's an important position also because we'll never be able to get pressure on any team if we can't hold the WR's long enough.  If we can resign Powers for cheap and draft a CB to start next Davis or play the nickel, then why not take a chance?  Not saying you're wrong, but I feel that would be a quicker fix than drafting an OL that we know will take time to bloom or drafting a LB that isn't highly rated like the corner position is.  Thing is, at our position in the draft, we'll have a better chance of drafting a top 3 corner in the draft than any other position.  I'm all for drafting a sure fire OL if he falls to us though.

Right and I have no issue with keeping Powers, and then turning around and using the first round pick on the corner.  What I am saying is that I don't think we are going to keep Powers, draft a corner in the first round, AND sign a big name corner.  That's what I meant by something doesn't add up.  If you read reports out there you could see the Colts doing all three.  I am just saying I don't think all three will happen.  I could easily see two out of the three happening no matter what combo of those two you pick and I would have zero issue with doing two out of the three. 

[Superman]

I want to be clear; I have no problem with getting another Cornerback (my personal preference being Nnamdi Asomugha). I have simply taken issue with the incorrect notion (that has had a deathgrip hold on some in Colts fandom since Jeff Burris) that Cornerback is one of our top needs.

 

It just isn't. Nobody builds a Defense from the Cornerbacks in. And focusing on the Cornerbacks to the exclusion of Dline & LBs (be it on draft day or Free Agency) gives the impression that some Cornerbackites would.

 

 

I don't understand the either/or mentality here, to be honest. Whatever order the list of needs is in, I think for sure cornerback is there. A) We don't have any; B) our corner play has been substandard for many years now.

 

That doesn't mean that I or anyone else thinks that the defense is built from the cornerback in. It doesn't mean drafting and/or signing a corner (or three) to the exclusion of the rest of our needs.

 

Seems like you think the team should avoid drafting a cornerback, specifically because you feel like other needs are more important. Even if that's the case, if cornerback is what the board is pointing toward, shouldn't we take a cornerback at #24? The only way we should be specifically avoiding a cornerback in the first round is if we sign a starter and a nickel guy in free agency.

 

It's also interesting that you have cornerback so low on the list of needs, but you're in favor of signing someone like Nnamdi Asomugha.

[oldunclemark]

If we use our 1st round draft pick on a CB I will be very disappointed in Grigson/Pagano.

agreed, Brian...Andy

Its got to be a linemen....We cant let Luck take the hits he took last year and we have to be able to make a yard on 3rd and 1..

[Superman]

That's kinda my point, I could see us drafting a corner in the first round and re-signing Powers, or singing a number one/two guy and drafting a corner in the first round, or even signing a number one/two guy and keeping Powers.  I just don't see us doing all three unless the guy we sign is a fourth of fifth corner or a later round draft pick. 

 

Yeah, I agree. I don't see them allocating that amount of resources to the position -- a prime free agent, plus Powers, plus a first rounder. Not likely. Two of the three, maybe, and I'd hope that would be Powers and a draft pick. Not even necessarily a first rounder. There are plenty of corners with second and third round ratings that we could grab. But I think that, if Rhodes is still there at #24, it doesn't make sense to pass on him unless we've already signed Powers and another free agent.

 

Outside of those resources though, toward the end of the draft and in secondary and tertiary free agency, we'll bring in a bunch of guys, simply to fill the roster. I think we went into camp last year with 11 corners, which was more a situation of trying to find some guys worthy of roster spots. Still, 8 or 9 corners is likely for camp, and we only have 2 right now.

[GoColts8818]

agreed, Brian...Andy

Its got to be a linemen....We cant let Luck take the hits he took last year and we have to be able to make a yard on 3rd and 1..

and if we sign two guards and a tackle in free agency does it still have to be linemen?  I would argue that you have then addressed the position without having to use a pick on it and I could easily see the Colts doing that. 

[Balzer40]

I don't understand the either/or mentality here, to be honest. Whatever order the list of needs is in, I think for sure cornerback is there. A) We don't have any; B) our corner play has been substandard for many years now.

 

That doesn't mean that I or anyone else thinks that the defense is built from the cornerback in. It doesn't mean drafting and/or signing a corner (or three) to the exclusion of the rest of our needs.

 

Seems like you think the team should avoid drafting a cornerback, specifically because you feel like other needs are more important. Even if that's the case, if cornerback is what the board is pointing toward, shouldn't we take a cornerback at #24? The only way we should be specifically avoiding a cornerback in the first round is if we sign a starter and a nickel guy in free agency.

 

It's also interesting that you have cornerback so low on the list of needs, but you're in favor of signing someone like Nnamdi Asomugha.

 

 

 

Just wanted to say that I agree with your post and that I think signing Nnamdi is a huge, gigantic, enormously, bad idea. I know it's not your idea but I have seen it mentioned by others too. Nnamdi IMO has lost it, I don't care how good he "used" to be or that he played in a system that "supposedly" didn't fit his talents(which I do not buy BTW). IMO, if we sign a FA CB, there are better options available. Much better!

[Balzer40]

agreed, Brian...Andy

Its got to be a linemen....We cant let Luck take the hits he took last year and we have to be able to make a yard on 3rd and 1..

 

 

So if all the top rated guys are already gone, you still think we should draft an O-lineman simply because he's an O-lineman? Doing that would be a good way for Grigson to get fired.

[TiagoAraruna]

I would rather pick Trufant! Pretty good corner.

[GoColts8818]

Yeah, I agree. I don't see them allocating that amount of resources to the position -- a prime free agent, plus Powers, plus a first rounder. Not likely. Two of the three, maybe, and I'd hope that would be Powers and a draft pick. Not even necessarily a first rounder. There are plenty of corners with second and third round ratings that we could grab. But I think that, if Rhodes is still there at #24, it doesn't make sense to pass on him unless we've already signed Powers and another free agent.

 

Outside of those resources though, toward the end of the draft and in secondary and tertiary free agency, we'll bring in a bunch of guys, simply to fill the roster. I think we went into camp last year with 11 corners, which was more a situation of trying to find some guys worthy of roster spots. Still, 8 or 9 corners is likely for camp, and we only have 2 right now.

Exactly what I was trying to say Superman.  I know we need help at the position but I just don't think we need that much help or at least that many high resources for the need.  Add in the fact we have already trading a second round pick in this draft for a corner I just don't see us doing all three of the others.  I am on board with you and anyone else who could see us doing two out of the three.  I kinda get the idea they are leaning towards re-signing Powers and then drafting  younger corner to be groomed to be either Davis or Powers replacement not unlike what we did with Jackson when we took him and well Hayden for that matter.  They were drafted to be groomed to replace Harper and David.  It could be the Colts are looking at the free agent market to sign a guy if they can't get a deal done with Powers as a back up plan.  I think Grigson does look for back up options and proved that last year when hours after they lost Garcon he had a deal with Wayne in place. 

[HarassedOffTheSite]

and if we sign two guards and a tackle in free agency does it still have to be linemen?  I would argue that you have then addressed the position without having to use a pick on it and I could easily see the Colts doing that. 

 

Obviously, but that is not what we're talking about in this thread. We're talking about taking a CB with our first pick. Not about what we do in Free Agency and how that changes our draft priorities.

[GoColts8818]

Obviously, but that is not what we're talking about in this thread. We're talking about taking a CB with our first pick. Not about what we do in Free Agency and how that changes our draft priorities.

I was responding to Mark who said we HAVE to use that pick on lineman.  All I did was present him with a situation where we might not have too and where taking a guy like a CB becomes a real possibility.