Is Irsay the smartest football man in the business?

[The Old Crow]

Hopefully Luck can & will continue to grow .  I hope for the sake of your Ravens Flacco has more upside he is now under the gun as the highest paid QB , The Ravens could end up like past Colts teams .

 

 

Joe has done well, but I'm skeptical if he can carry less than top flight talent that Manning has sometimes has. Manning had some great players, but they seemed to skimp on the defense on some of those teams.

[bestQBever]

lets just say irsay has LUCK on his side

[John Dee]

Irsay is "smart" in the sense that he knows he is NOT a football man ...  and his EGO does not need stroked to the point of micro managing his team.    

 

He is smart enough to know he needs a "football mind" to run his team.        And he has made a couple great decisions in a row so far.

 

Polian......       Grigs.

[husker61]

I would argue the fact that Irsay knows he isn't the smartest football guy in the business is one of the things that makes him the best owners in all of sports.  He's done a great job putting people who truly know football in charge of the front office and recognizing when those men had run their course and didn't hesitate to make a change if he felt it was time to go in a new direction. 

 

Irsay took over as owner more or less in 1995 and the Colts have only missed the playoffs four times since then.  As fans that means we have a had a high quality team year in and year out and I know people might want a few more championships but there isn't much more you could ask for from the owner. 

 

you leave out the fact that he was actually making football decisions as gm from 1984-94. i would say that disqualifies him from being the smartest football man. after he got out of the way and let qualified people make football decisions is when the colts started winning.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

lets just say irsay has LUCK on his side

 

 

He better get us a top ten defense as well . Or we'll be outta Luck & 1 & done like so many wasted seasons .

[GoColts8818]

you leave out the fact that he was actually making football decisions as gm from 1984-94. i would say that disqualifies him from being the smartest football man. after he got out of the way and let qualified people make football decisions is when the colts started winning.

I don't think you read my post as I was saying he's a smart owner in part because he realized he shouldn't be making the football decisions.  That would be a nod to the fact that didn't do a good job as a GM.  In fact I started the post by saying Irsay knows he isn't the smartest football man in the business.  He's a great owner not a football guru.  He's just been very good at hiring people who are football guru's and knowing when it's time to move on from them which is what makes him a good owner. 

[husker61]

I would put it into the context of the Irsay family owning the Colts as a whole. From 1972 to 2012, a span of 40 years, the Irsay family has brought home one Super Bowl Championship to the combined Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts. The Irsay legacy is certainly better than the Bidwell family, but pales in comparison to the Rooneys, Krafts, and even the deservedly mailigned Jerry Jones.

 

Has Jimmy done a better job than Bob Irsay, obviously. However, he lost valuable time as a bad GM, until finally hiring a good football man in Bill Polian. You can't say the Irsay's have been given bad breaks with drafting quarterbacks. Bob drafted John Elway, and despite Ernie Accorsi begging him not to trade him because he was bluffing about playing baseball, Irsay dealt him anyway. They drafted Peyton Manning, which was the right move and credit should be given, but they failed to surround him with enough good players, and got only one Championship, and another Super Bowl trip. In my opinion, Peyton Manning was the top quarterback of the decade, and top three all time. More Championships should have been won.

 

I will admit letting Peyton go, and drafting Luck was a bold move, and certainly it paid off this season. The book hasn't been written on this one yet, so the jury is out. Jimmy, as an owner recently, has gotten them into alot of playoffs, but only 2 Super Bowls with Peyton was a bit disappointing.

 

As a final epilogue, Jimmy has elevated the Colts from the bottom of ownership families under his father Bob, to a place maybe between five and ten. Based on this track record, I wouldn't say he's the smartest in the business, but he is getting smarter.

 

i completely agree. i posted a lot of the same things before i read this.

[husker61]

I don't think you read my post as I was saying he's a smart owner in part because he realized he shouldn't be making the football decisions.  That would be a nod to the fact that didn't do a good job as a GM.  In fact I started the post by saying Irsay knows he isn't the smartest football man in the business.  He's a great owner not a football guru.  He's just been very good at hiring people who are football guru's and knowing when it's time to move on from them which is what makes him a good owner. 

 

i probably misunderstood your post because the topic of the thread is "the smartest football man in the business".

[Restored]

I honestly believe he is and I believe that for many of the reasons people have posted err. His ability to let his ego go and have people who have more football knowledge then him make some of the key choices makes him one of the best. But his uncanny sense for a team and the direction it's going is what makes him the best. He knew exactly when it was time to hit the reset button. He didn't try to hold on to the past and let it cloud his judgement (even though I'm sure it had to be one of the toughest choices of his life in letting Polian/Peyton go). He also has a incredible feel for what a good franchise is made of. He's got a GM that soley focuses on personnel and choices related to it while having a HC that is flexible with his schemes (3-4/4-3). It's the perfect balance that Irsay has talked about.

Lets not forget that he's also not afraid to step in with personnel choices. If its true that he indeed stepped in to tell Polian no I'm trading Peyton in 2004, he is a owner who to me is the best in the business.

[The Old Crow]

The whole Jim Irsay deal about overruling Polian about trading Manning in 2004, may or may not be true, but it sounds eerily familar to Jerry Jones dissing Jimmy Johnson as he was walking out the door. We've seen it before with Jerry Jones, Al Davis, or even Art Modell. When the owner starts to think he's the prime mover, and listens to his football people less, that is when it spells trouble. Not saying this is what happened, but it would be a cause for concern.

 

I would give Irsay more credit for letting Manning go, and picking up Luck, if Manning's neck issue wasn't there. Denver should have been in the Super Bowl this year, which would have had more people second guessing Irsay's decision on this one. Ten years as a failed GM, 2 Super bowl appearances and 1 title in fourty years, does not make for the best in the business. Is he a quirky, fun-loving guy who has been successful since 1999 with Polian and Manning ? The answer is yes. The Colts and Luck played a weaker schedule last year, so Irsay's recent legacy depends on the further progress of Luck and the Colts, and also the contrast between Manning and the Broncos.

[GoColts8818]

The whole Jim Irsay deal about overruling Polian about trading Manning in 2004, may or may not be true, but it sounds eerily familar to Jerry Jones dissing Jimmy Johnson as he was walking out the door. We've seen it before with Jerry Jones, Al Davis, or even Art Modell. When the owner starts to think he's the prime mover, and listens to his football people less, that is when it spells trouble. Not saying this is what happened, but it would be a cause for concern.

 

I would give Irsay more credit for letting Manning go, and picking up Luck, if Manning's neck issue wasn't there. Denver should have been in the Super Bowl this year, which would have had more people second guessing Irsay's decision on this one. Ten years as a failed GM, 2 Super bowl appearances and 1 title in fourty years, does not make for the best in the business. Is he a quirky, fun-loving guy who has been successful since 1999 with Polian and Manning ? The answer is yes. The Colts and Luck played a weaker schedule last year, so Irsay's recent legacy depends on the further progress of Luck and the Colts, and also the contrast between Manning and the Broncos.

Odds are if there was no Manning neck issue the Colts would have not been in position to get Luck. in the first place.  Irsay made the hard and right call he gets credit for it just as if Luck had came in and looked like Jeff George over again and Manning had the year he did he would get the blame for making the wrong choice. 

 

Also Irsay has dissed on Polian he told A story about Polian.  Any other time he's been asked about Polian he spoken very highly of him frankly he talks about him better than most fans around here do. 

 

Also the Colts were coming off a 2-14 season and the worst record in the NFL they were supposed to play a weak schedule.  The talent gap in the NFL is not that great and any time you go from 2-14 to 11-5 and the playoffs you had a good season no matter who you play.  Jim Irsay's legacy as OWNER is very good not many owners can say their teams have gone to playoffs 14 times in 18 years and BTW not all of that is thanks to Manning, Harbaugh got them there twice and Luck has done it as well.  All three of Irsay's GMs have lead teams to the playoffs that tells me Irsay does a good job hiring his GMs. 

[The Old Crow]

He's definately gotten better, but for the life of me, I'm not sure why he fired Polian. I'm not saying they weren't deserving of a lesser schedule because of the 2-14 finish, but it will definately get harder next year for Luck. Lets look a little closer at Jim's legacy as Colts GM from 1984 to 1994:

 

1984 4-12

1985 5-11

1986 3-13

1987 9-6

1988 9-7

1989 8-8

1990 7-9

1991 1-15

1992 9-7

1993 4-12

1994 8-8

 

During the supposedly great Harbaugh years they finished a mediocre 9-7 both years, and finished second and third in the AFC East. They followed that up in 1997 with a 3-13 record, and went  3-13 again in 1998. The evidence clearly points out that without Polian and Manning, Jim Irsay wouldn't look as good. Should he get some credit as owner for picking the GM and Manning, sure, but this past track record doesn't make him the best in the business, as well as only one Super Bowl title. The Luck call looks pretty good right now, but time will tell how this plays out into the Jim Irsay legacy.

[GoColts8818]

He's definately gotten better, but for the life of me, I'm not sure why he fired Polian. I'm not saying they weren't deserving of a lesser schedule because of the 2-14 finish, but it will definately get harder next year for Luck. Lets look a little closer at Jim's legacy as Colts GM from 1984 to 1994:

 

1984 4-12

1985 5-11

1986 3-13

1987 9-6

1988 9-7

1989 8-8

1990 7-9

1991 1-15

1992 9-7

1993 4-12

1994 8-8

 

During the supposedly great Harbaugh years they finished a mediocre 9-7 both years, and finished second and third in the AFC East. They followed that up in 1997 with a 3-13 record, and went  3-13 again in 1998. The evidence clearly points out that without Polian and Manning, Jim Irsay wouldn't look as good. Should he get some credit as owner for picking the GM and Manning, sure, but this past track record doesn't make him the best in the business, as well as only one Super Bowl title. The Luck call looks pretty good right now, but time will tell how this plays out into the Jim Irsay legacy.

Let's not no one has said he was good GM in fact just about everyone has said he was horrible GM so what's the point of trying to debate something everyone agrees on?  Even Irsay would agree with that fact he has often joked the best thing he has ever done as owner is fire himself as GM.  His GM record doesn't reflect his owner legacy because we was never the GM when he was he was the owner.  Most people would say Irsay the GM is awful while Jim Irsay the owner is very good.  Like I said before Irsay isn't the smartest football mind in the business he's smart because he knows he's not a good football mind and hired men who are very good football minds to run his teams. 

 

Also I don't recall anyone saying the Harbaugh years were "great" but they do count as playoff trips and one of them did end in a trip to the AFC Title game at 9-7.  Didn't the last two Super Bowl Champions win with 10-6 records including the Ravens?  So yes they were fun years.  With that said you would have to be a fool to argue that the 95 or 96 Colts were "great" teams.  Also, they hold a special place in most Colts fans hearts because they were Colts fans in Indianapolis first real taste of success.  With that said, it was Irsay's start as owner and going 9-7 and to the playoffs was a step up over just about anything the Colts had done under his dad as owner other than the strike season of 1987. 

 

That's also not all of Irsay's legacy as owner but when you add what happened last year and the Harbaugh year they help prove that he didn't just ride Manning and Polian to a good rep as owner.  In fact since he's the owner without him there is no Polian/Manning years to celebrate.  He could have easily hired another GM who feel in love with Ryan Leaf but he didn't.   Heck he could have kept Tobin and Harbaugh and tried to rebuild around them and win a ring before Harbaugh retired and traded the pick but he didn't.  Irsay has shown the touch of a owner to know when it's time to go in a direction and frankly when he has gone in a new direction as owner his new directions have worked out.  That's why his teams have gone to playoffs 14 of the 18 years he's been owner.  I can understand people in Baltimore don't like the Irsays because of the move and they have every reason not to like him but that doesn't change the fact that Jim Irsay has done a very good job as owner.  He's not his dad who is one was one of the worst owners in sports. 

[willysp]

 they have every reason not to like him but that doesn't change the fact that Jim Irsay has done a very good job as owner.  He's not his dad who is one was one of the worst owners in sports. 

 

Huh? What rational reason does Balt have for not liking Jim Irsay?  He was just a kid when his dad made the decision to leave.  Jim had nothing to do with it.

[The Old Crow]

The issue isn't whether I, or Baltimore, like Jim Irsay or not, the question is whether Jim Irsay is the smartest man in the football business. I'm just pointing out some facts where I disagree with the assertion, or forum question.

 

I really don't think you can seperate Jim Irsay the GM, from Jim Irsay, the owner. As GM, he was part of the Irsay ownership family, and had alot of leeway from his father, to build the Colts. When you're the son of the owner, the heir apparent, and your father owns the company, you also represent ownership. You guys just want to seperate the GM years from the ownership years, and I don't think you can. Bob Irsay once told Baltimore, " This isn't your team, your city's team, this is my team, my family's team." So if its his family's team, then Jim Irsay was part of that ownership group. Since Bob appointed him GM, he was a VERY important part of the ownership group.

 

Since 1999, and the Polian and Manning years, the Jim Irsay ownership has definately improved, and has had some excellent years, plus a Super Bowl win. The Luck move looks like a win win for Indianapolis and Denver, but it's still to early to tell. It's also to early to tell how the new GM will do compared to Polian. Jimmy is probably a top ten ownership guy, but not the smartest man in the business at this point.

[GoColts8818]

A lot of people in Baltimore just don't like the Irsay family.  Fair or not that's how a lot of those people feel and has been proven time and time again.

Huh? What rational reason does Balt have for not liking Jim Irsay?  He was just a kid when his dad made the decision to leave.  Jim had nothing to do with it.

[GoColts8818]

The issue isn't whether I, or Baltimore, like Jim Irsay or not, the question is whether Jim Irsay is the smartest man in the football business. I'm just pointing out some facts where I disagree with the assertion, or forum question.

 

I really don't think you can seperate Jim Irsay the GM, from Jim Irsay, the owner. As GM, he was part of the Irsay ownership family, and had alot of leeway from his father, to build the Colts. When you're the son of the owner, the heir apparent, and your father owns the company, you also represent ownership. You guys just want to seperate the GM years from the ownership years, and I don't think you can. Bob Irsay once told Baltimore, " This isn't your team, your city's team, this is my team, my family's team." So if its his family's team, then Jim Irsay was part of that ownership group. Since Bob appointed him GM, he was a VERY important part of the ownership group.

 

Since 1999, and the Polian and Manning years, the Jim Irsay ownership has definately improved, and has had some excellent years, plus a Super Bowl win. The Luck move looks like a win win for Indianapolis and Denver, but it's still to early to tell. It's also to early to tell how the new GM will do compared to Polian. Jimmy is probably a top ten ownership guy, but not the smartest man in the business at this point.

and the concuss seems to be no he's not the smartest football mind in the business but he is one of the best owners in Sports thanks in part to the fact he understands he isn't the smartest mind in football. 

 

Also if you don't know the difference between being the owner of a team and being the GM of a team then I don't know what to tell you.  I think it's more likely that you are trying to take away from Irsay's track record of owner by trying to tie to his track record of GM because you can point out the flaws of him being a GM where as the flaws of him as an owner are much harder to find.  You are also trying to tie Bob Irsay and Jim Irsay together and a simple examination of the two men will clearly tell you they are not the same person.  It's very hard to believe Jim Irsay is Bob Irsay's son if you look at how both men act. 

 

Since 1995 when Jim Irsay took over things have gotten much better for the Colts.  As much as you would like to just dismiss the Colts playoff trips in 1995 and 1996 they still count. 

 

You are coming across very much like you are have an ax to grind with Irsay and I can understand why you do you don't like the family because they moved the team but you know what Jim isn't his dad and Jim Irsay the owner has been one of the best owners in sports and much better than his father was.  If you don't want to give him credit for it fine. 

[The Old Crow]

I certainly know the difference between GM and owner, but in this case, it's the Irsay family that were both owner and GM. The thread is if he's the smartest man in the football business, and the answer is clearly no. I'm not saying the 1995 and 1996 years weren't fun, but they certainly weren't the best years of the Colts. They are fondly remembered because it was a surprise they made the playoffs.

 

We're not talking about the move to Indy, so that is irrelevant to this argument. Of course , the Irsays are not popular in Baltimore, and the Modells are unpopular in Cleveland for obvious reasons. I really think you have to take the Irsay history in it's entirity, and not just compartmentalize the Manning years. Even as a 24 year old in 1983, Jim Irsay was going to Indy on his father's behest, to check out Indianapolis as a place for the Colts to move. You don't get that kind of assignment unless you are part of the ownership family, and extremely trusted. So if you're going to take all the good, you have to take some of the bad. As far as the 40 year history of Irsay family ownership, it doesn't rank high among ownership families. Since 1999, it has moved up considerably. The Luck years will be extremely important to the Irsay family, and in particular, Jim Irsay legacy.

[southwest1]

I would put it into the context of the Irsay family owning the Colts as a whole. From 1972 to 2012, a span of 40 years, the Irsay family has brought home one Super Bowl Championship to the combined Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts. The Irsay legacy is certainly better than the Bidwell family, but pales in comparison to the Rooneys, Krafts, and even the deservedly mailigned Jerry Jones.

 

Has Jimmy done a better job than Bob Irsay, obviously. However, he lost valuable time as a bad GM, until finally hiring a good football man in Bill Polian. You can't say the Irsay's have been given bad breaks with drafting quarterbacks. Bob drafted John Elway, and despite Ernie Accorsi begging him not to trade him because he was bluffing about playing baseball, Irsay dealt him anyway. They drafted Peyton Manning, which was the right move and credit should be given, but they failed to surround him with enough good players, and got only one Championship, and another Super Bowl trip. In my opinion, Peyton Manning was the top quarterback of the decade, and top three all time. More Championships should have been won.

 

I will admit letting Peyton go, and drafting Luck was a bold move, and certainly it paid off this season. The book hasn't been written on this one yet, so the jury is out. Jimmy, as an owner recently, has gotten them into alot of playoffs, but only 2 Super Bowls with Peyton was a bit disappointing.

 

As a final epilogue, Jimmy has elevated the Colts from the bottom of ownership families under his father Bob, to a place maybe between five and ten. Based on this track record, I wouldn't say he's the smartest in the business, but he is getting smarter.

 

 

Irsay is "smart" in the sense that he knows he is NOT a football man ...  and his EGO does not need stroked to the point of micro managing his team.    

 

He is smart enough to know he needs a "football mind" to run his team.        And he has made a couple great decisions in a row so far.

 

Polian......       Grigs.

I agree The Old Crow that Irsay has had incredibly good fortune selecting QBs which can kill a team for a decade if you make a mistake there along with center, & left tackle or the QB's blindside anyway. John Dee is also correct when he states that Irsay doesn't think he knows everything about football & he gets the proper expertise to fill those voids that he has limited familiarity with. Well said. 

[GoColts8818]

I certainly know the difference between GM and owner, but in this case, it's the Irsay family that were both owner and GM. The thread is if he's the smartest man in the football business, and the answer is clearly no. I'm not saying the 1995 and 1996 years weren't fun, but they certainly weren't the best years of the Colts. They are fondly remembered because it was a surprise they made the playoffs.

If you did you would know that being a GM and owner aren't the same thing and just because Irsay was bad at one or good one doesn't impact how does at the other.  I think as you read this thread it's become clear that people are saying Jim Irsay isn't the best mind in football but he is a good owner thanks in part to the fact he understand he isn't the best mind in football.  Just because he was a bad GM doesn't impact how he was as Owner.  You aren't stopping at saying Irsay isn't the best mind in football you are trying to take away from his success as owner.  If you were just saying Irsay isn't the best mind football mind in the business even Colts fans are agreeing with you there.  It doesn't change the fact the man is one of the best owners in sports.  No one has said the 1995 or 1996 years were the best years of the Colts either.  However, when they apart of a run that has seen the team go to the playoffs 14 of the past 18 years that run is pretty darn good and only one man has been apart of all those runs, Jim Irsay, who just happens to be the guy in charge of everything.  That would seem to indicate he is a good owner.  Add to that everything he has done for Indianapolis outside of football and he was a major part of getting a Super Bowl to Indianapolis and yes he is one of the best owner in all of sports. 

We're not talking about the move to Indy, so that is irrelevant to this argument. Of course , the Irsays are not popular in Baltimore, and the Modells are unpopular in Cleveland for obvious reasons. I really think you have to take the Irsay history in it's entirity, and not just compartmentalize the Manning years. Even as a 24 year old in 1983, Jim Irsay was going to Indy on his father's behest, to check out Indianapolis as a place for the Colts to move. You don't get that kind of assignment unless you are part of the ownership family, and extremely trusted. So if you're going to take all the good, you have to take some of the bad. As far as the 40 year history of Irsay family ownership, it doesn't rank high among ownership families. Since 1999, it has moved up considerably. The Luck years will be extremely important to the Irsay family, and in particular, Jim Irsay legacy.

Again, you seem to be going out of your way to take away from Jim Irsay's accomplishments as owner.  The only reason I can come up with for that is that you don't the Irsays because of the move if you have another reason for disliking the Irsays then fine.  It doesn't change the fact that Jim Irsay is still one of the best owners in sports.

 

Being apart of the front office and being THE guy in charge are two different things.  Bob Irsay was the one calling the ownership shots when he was alive and healthy enough to do so.  Jim Irsay went to Indianapolis because his dad sent him there not because he wanted too.  Also Irsay has said several times in Interviews he knew he had no business being the GM but he did it because his dad wanted him to do it.  That's why when Irsay more or less took over from his dad one of the first things he did was remove himself from that position and hire a real GM.  Just because they share the same last name and are father and son doesn't make Jim Irsay and Bob Irsay the same person.  They clearly aren't which is why Jim Irsay has done things very differently from his father when he took over as owner.  Also we aren't ranking Irsays as families we are ranking Jim Irsay as a owner vs. Bob irsay the owner because they are very different.  Bob Irsay was a horrible owner maybe the worst in sports at the time.  Jim Irsay on the other hand is very good.  Just about everyone recognizes they aren't the same person and the fact you are trying to tie them together is more proof you are going out of your way to try to find anything to take away from Jim Irsay's success as owner. 

[IndyBarb]

This sore spot of Irsay making the decision to move on just never seems to go away. Jim is the "team owner" and IMO, making that bold move applied more to "the team's future"  than it did to Peyton.  

[The Old Crow]

I think Jim Irsay ranks highly as an owner from 1999-2012. I don't believe I brought up the move, and I don't think it has any bearing on this argument whatsoever. Okay, lets seperate out the Irsays like you want to. You have Bob Irsay with no Super Bowls in 23 years as owner, and Jim Irsay has one Super Bowl in 17 years. Jimmy has some nice playoff wins, great regular season records, and a couple of AFC Championships. Not a shabby record by any means, but not in the same category as Kraft, Rooney, Biscotti, Bowlen, and even Jerry Jones. I never said Bob and Jimmy were the same person. Jimmy is obviously 10 thousand times more competent than his father, and done a much better job, no doubt. But if he's the smartest in the business, you have to include the family's franchise history, his role as GM, and his current record since 1999. He's been sucessful, and I'm not taking it away from him, but smartest in the business, no way. He still has plenty of time to move up the legacy ladder.

[Dustin]

I think Jim Irsay ranks highly as an owner from 1999-2012. I don't believe I brought up the move, and I don't think it has any bearing on this argument whatsoever. Okay, lets seperate out the Irsays like you want to. You have Bob Irsay with no Super Bowls in 23 years as owner, and Jim Irsay has one Super Bowl in 17 years. Jimmy has some nice playoff wins, great regular season records, and a couple of AFC Championships. Not a shabby record by any means, but not in the same category as Kraft, Rooney, Biscotti, Bowlen, and even Jerry Jones. I never said Bob and Jimmy were the same person. Jimmy is obviously 10 thousand times more competent than his father, and done a much better job, no doubt. But if he's the smartest in the business, you have to include the family's franchise history, his role as GM, and his current record since 1999. He's been sucessful, and I'm not taking it away from him, but smartest in the business, no way. He still has plenty of time to move up the legacy ladder.

Saying he's not better than Jerry Jones is laughable.

[willysp]

A lot of people in Baltimore just don't like the Irsay family.  Fair or not that's how a lot of those people feel and has been proven time and time again.

 

Hold on - you said " they have every reason not to like him".  

[GoColts8818]

Hold on - you said " they have every reason not to like him".  

Yes because he's a part of the family.  I am sure if the Colts left town now people in Indianapolis would dislike the Irsay family rather it was Jim or one of his daughters because they would see the last name fair or not.  They are upset that the Colts left that's the real issue and that's what I am getting at and fans in a city have every right to not like an owner if a team leaves town rather they should dislike them or not. 

[GoColts8818]

I think Jim Irsay ranks highly as an owner from 1999-2012. I don't believe I brought up the move, and I don't think it has any bearing on this argument whatsoever. Okay, lets seperate out the Irsays like you want to. You have Bob Irsay with no Super Bowls in 23 years as owner, and Jim Irsay has one Super Bowl in 17 years. Jimmy has some nice playoff wins, great regular season records, and a couple of AFC Championships. Not a shabby record by any means, but not in the same category as Kraft, Rooney, Biscotti, Bowlen, and even Jerry Jones. I never said Bob and Jimmy were the same person. Jimmy is obviously 10 thousand times more competent than his father, and done a much better job, no doubt. But if he's the smartest in the business, you have to include the family's franchise history, his role as GM, and his current record since 1999. He's been sucessful, and I'm not taking it away from him, but smartest in the business, no way. He still has plenty of time to move up the legacy ladder.

Except that's the reason you don't like the Irsays and that you are trying to discredit Jim Irsay's success as a result.  Unless you have another reason for disliking Jim Irsay that would you like offer.  Either way you are going out of your way to try to discredit anything good Jim Irsay has done as owner rather it's trying to marry him to his track record as GM (even though no one is arguing that is was a bad track record) or trying to marry him to his father (who again no one is saying was a good owner.) or trying to say Irsay was good because he had Peyton Manning and Bill Polian and not because he's good.  Ignoring the fact he is the one who hired Bill Polian in the first place who was the person who drafted Peyton.  Without Jim Irsay over both of them there is Bill Polian and there is no Peyton Manning for the Colts. Jim Irsay could have very easily made the call to try to rebuild around Jim Harbaugh who was just two years removed from being the runner up for League MVP and was extremely popular in Indianapolis.  He didn't he made the call to bring in Polian who made the call to draft Manning over Leaf.  Had the Colts gone in direction that resulted in the Colts either keeping Harbaugh or drafting Leaf who would catch the flack on missing out on Manning?  Irsay.  It would be played up as the son repeating the father's mistake after his dad missed out on Elway.  So if people would blame him for it then you can't just try to remove him from the credit when he got it right. 

 

Biscotti didn't become the Ravens owner till 2004 (even though he was a minority owner in 2000).  He has been to one less trip to the Super Bowl than Irsay and has the same number of wins in the Super Bowl as Jim Irsay and far less division titles and playoff trips than Irsay does so to say Jim Irsay is not in the same category as him is the Ravens fan in you coming threw for Biscotti  I would say you could say they have close to an even track record as owner and I don't think anyone would say that Biscotti isn't a good owner.  I would agree that you could argue that Kraft and Rooney might very be the best owner in Sports.  Bowlen is a very underrated owner in sports.  I would put him in the same class I do as Irsay as one of the better owners in sports.  Jerry Jones is a nut who has little success once the team Jimmy Johnson built feel apart.  It was when he let Jimmy Johnson call the shots that he had success when he started to mettle it's been down hill since then.  With that said give him credit for being the man who hired Jimmy Johnson.  He had a very good run in the early/mid 90's but other than that he has not been a very good owner and his team's track record speaks for it's self. 

 

Irsay's teams have gone to the playoffs 14 of the 18 years he has owned the team, won eight division titles over that time, been to four AFC Title games, gone to two Super Bowls winning one.  On top of that his team owns the record for most wins in a decade by any team and longest regular season winning streak in the history of the NFL.  The longest time his teams have gone without making the playoffs is two years during his time as owner.  He has had six different coaches over that time all of which have lead a team to the playoffs with three different GMs again all of which got the team to the playoffs.  He has also been a major factor in bringing a Super Bowl to Indianapolis and has done countless other things for the city.  When you ranks owners in sports he would rank very high on the list.  He would clearly be in the same category as the other owners you listed.  You don't just rank owners based on the number of Championships they have won.  Jim Irsay has taken the Colts from sports laughing stalk to a team that has a shot at the playoffs every year.  If you were a fan which would you rather have a team that was a Super Bowl contender year in and year out or a team that won three Super Bowls in a four year span almost 20 years ago but has something like two playoff wins since then?  Who would you say did a better job as owner?  I would say the first one who puts his team in position to have a shot a Super Bowl year in and year out. 

 

Jim Irsay does everything you can ask an owner to do.  He gives back to his city.  He is not content with just turning a prophet and will do anything it takes to win.  He has shown the courage to make the bold decisions and even unpopular decisions when he's knows it will help the long term future of the team.  Most importantly his decisions have been good other than running Ted Marchibroda out of town after the 1995 season which was really his first call as owner and maybe hiring Jim Caldwell (who did get the team to the Super Bowl which is more than any other Indianapolis head coach can say not named Tony Dungy).  Like it or not Jim Irsay is an extremely good owner easily in the class with the other owners you have listed other than maybe Jerry Jones.  If your team is owned by any of the other four you listed or Irsay your team is in great hands.  Again if you don't want to give Irsay the credit he deserves fine.  He might not be the best mind in football (and I don't think many are saying he is) but he is one of the best owners in sports and his track record as owner backs that up. 

[Warhorse]

"Can't we all just get along"?

 

[Fx Stryker]

I don't think anything the Old Crow is saying has anything to do with the move. He is honestly just stating facts.

 

He is denying Irsay has done good as an owner, but he wasn't a great GM.

 

So to if he was a "the smartest football man in the business" he should have been as good as a GM as he is an owner.

[GoColts8818]

I don't think anything the Old Crow is saying has anything to do with the move. He is honestly just stating facts.

 

He is denying Irsay has done good as an owner, but he wasn't a great GM.

 

So to if he was a "the smartest football man in the business" he should have been as good as a GM as he is an owner.

From what I had read in this thread I thought it had been settled that Jim Irsay isn't the smartest football man in the business. I got that off the second post and the number of likes it has.  However, what had also been established is that he is a very good owner and one of the better owners in sports.  I am sorry the idea that Old Crow has floated that Irsay is not a good owner because of his dad or because of his GM history is not a fact.  It's at best an opinion and frankly one that I think most people would feel is faulty. 

 

Like I said at the close of my last post Irsay might not be the smartest football man in the business but that doesn't the fact that he is one of the better owners in the business.  His track record as owner backs that up.  How many owners in sports can say every GM and every HC they have hired has lead their team to the playoffs at least once?  Not very many and the ones that can like Kraft or Rooney I think people would call some of the better owners in sports.  Add to that that his team has been in the playoffs 14 of the 18 years he's been the official or acting owner and that's a pretty impressive track record for any owner and I think any owner with that kind of track record would be thought of as one of the better ones in sports. 

 

Again, I don't think many and I know I am not are objecting to the idea that Irsay isn't the smartest football man in the business.  I am objecting to the idea that Irsay isn't a good owner because of his track record as GM or because of his dad like old crow has floated. 

[GoColts8818]

Since we are talking about Owner Rankings I did some research and looked some up

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/28755/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-owners

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-ownerrankingsparttwo090310

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1122826-ranking-every-nfl-team-owner

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2011/11/02/the-best-and-worst-nfl-owners/

Now those are from different years but as been be seen here Irsay ranks in the top 10 in all of those averaging out to about 6th on the list. So again I would say that makes Irsay one of the better owners there is. I would say those list help prove Irsay is in the same class as the others that Old Crow said he was not in with before. Also looks like I was wrong on how the world views Jerry Jones so put him in that list as well.

[HungarianColtsFan]

I don't know if Irsay was the biggest think tank in NFL or not, but I do think we hardly could name more than 2 better owners than he is.

[colts1993]

Yes he is at least in my opinion

[southwest1]

GoColts8818 is a very detailed writer who frames his point of view well. Sure, there is a distinct difference between GM & owner & usually 9 chances out of 10 having a single person perform both dual functions fails miserably at it. Owners cut the checks & GM's scope out & bring in the athletic talent. Blending the 2 duties together is typically a nightmare.

Al Davis tried it & failed. Okay, I will admit that on January 9, 1977, John Madden HC of the Oakland Raiders won their first Super Bowl with a convincing 32–14 win over the Minnesota Vikings. In addition, the Raiders did lose the SB in 2002 with a resounding beat down score of 48–21. Since then, the Raiders are not exactly feared as annual SB contenders. True Jerry Jones had SB success in the 1990's, but he has had a long Championship drought recently. And Daniel Snyder until the arrival of RG3 and Mike Shanahan hasn't hoisted a Lombardi Trophy as of yet even bringing back HOF HC Joe Gibbs.

Yes, Jim Irsay is a great owner who is willing to spend money to win, gives back handsomely to the INDY community, & has a great relationship with all his fans both states side & abroad. All noble endeavors.

I'm just glad we are a relevant football team & not a joke. Jim Irsay keeps us competitive, Playoff bound, & in the SB mix. That's all I care. Thank you Jim.

[The Old Crow]

Saying he's not better than Jerry Jones is laughable.

 

 

Jones 3 Super Bowls !

[Dustin]

Jones 3 Super Bowls !

What's he done since then? 1 playoff win in 20 years or something like that.

[The Old Crow]

Yes because he's a part of the family.  I am sure if the Colts left town now people in Indianapolis would dislike the Irsay family rather it was Jim or one of his daughters because they would see the last name fair or not.  They are upset that the Colts left that's the real issue and that's what I am getting at and fans in a city have every right to not like an owner if a team leaves town rather they should dislike them or not. 

 

 

You would like me to say that because I don't like the Irsay family, this is the reason I don't think he's the smasrtest man in the business. Just look at the facts, and leave the emotion out of it.

[The Old Crow]

and the concuss seems to be no he's not the smartest football mind in the business but he is one of the best owners in Sports thanks in part to the fact he understands he isn't the smartest mind in football. 

 

Also if you don't know the difference between being the owner of a team and being the GM of a team then I don't know what to tell you.  I think it's more likely that you are trying to take away from Irsay's track record of owner by trying to tie to his track record of GM because you can point out the flaws of him being a GM where as the flaws of him as an owner are much harder to find.  You are also trying to tie Bob Irsay and Jim Irsay together and a simple examination of the two men will clearly tell you they are not the same person.  It's very hard to believe Jim Irsay is Bob Irsay's son if you look at how both men act. 

 

Since 1995 when Jim Irsay took over things have gotten much better for the Colts.  As much as you would like to just dismiss the Colts playoff trips in 1995 and 1996 they still count. 

 

You are coming across very much like you are have an ax to grind with Irsay and I can understand why you do you don't like the family because they moved the team but you know what Jim isn't his dad and Jim Irsay the owner has been one of the best owners in sports and much better than his father was.  If you don't want to give him credit for it fine. 

 

I gave him credit for it and told you I think he moved up into the top 10 of owners. I gave you the facts about why he's not higher. It's an opinion, on this topic. and you keep bringing up the move that is not part of this topic.

[The Old Crow]

What's he done since then? 1 playoff win in 20 years.

Agreed, but it's 3 to 1 in Super Bowls, and unfortunately Championships are the biggest measuring stick of successful ownerships. Jones started to believe he was the smartest man in the business, and look at what happened the last 20 years. A cautionary tale !

[Dustin]

Agreed, but it's 3 to 1 in Super Bowls, and unfortunately Championships are the biggest measuring stick of successful ownerships. Jones started to believe he was the smartest man in the business, and look at what happened the last 20 years. A cautionary tale !

The goal is to field the best team possible that's a consistent threat to win it all every year. What Jones did 20 years ago has no bearing on how good of an owner he is now.

[The Old Crow]

Since we are talking about Owner Rankings I did some research and looked some up

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/28755/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-owners

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-ownerrankingsparttwo090310

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1122826-ranking-every-nfl-team-owner

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2011/11/02/the-best-and-worst-nfl-owners/

Now those are from different years but as been be seen here Irsay ranks in the top 10 in all of those averaging out to about 6th on the list. So again I would say that makes Irsay one of the better owners there is. I would say those list help prove Irsay is in the same class as the others that Old Crow said he was not in with before. Also looks like I was wrong on how the world views Jerry Jones so put him in that list as well.

 

 

Just looked at the ESPN list, and that is about where I would rank Jim Irsay, except I might move Jones up only because of the three Super Bowls. He has definately been a bufoon the last 20 years which is moving him down the list rapidly, while Irsay and Biscotti are moving up.