Bill Belichick Grabs Official

[21isSuperman]

While this is being blown out of proportion, has anyone looked at Brandon Spikes' Twitter feed recently? Man, he needs to clean up his language. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get fined by the NFL

[-JJ-]

He wanted an explanation. Since these HORRIBLE refs are so inept that mis-calling a FG wouldn't be a surprise....it WAS a scoring play, Bill wanted an explanation and this HACK of a ref, this pretend ref wants to shrug him off and ignore an NFL head coach because he feels he's being picked on for sucking at his job.....?

ABSOLUTELY NOT, NO Bill should not be fined for that. So many games are being ruined by these hacks. The first three weeks are a joke. So many games turning on these bad calls.

I'm just about done with the NFL this year until the officiating is fixed. The product is so poor it borders on phony.

The only thing that's warranted at this point is that they STOP PLAYING until they have officials that know the rules. The league is making a mockery out of itself.

Hmm..until I read your post I thought BB was complaining in general after a loss which I thought it was disgusting. I see now it was over the FG call. He was trying to stop the ref from walking away. Still...its wrong to manhandle the ref.

Its not the refs fault they were put in this position trying to ref a pro with no experience.

I dunno..calls tend to even out..just that with replacement refs there's more to even out:) Hard part is the players are practicing what they can or cannot do with these refs.

[JoKeR]

you saying Bill was trying to intimidate the ref by grabbing him trying to get an explanation?

No but it's uncalled for, refs don't have to answer to coaches. Bill's incident isn't a good example of intimidation, but how no one should be grabbing anyone.

[stat2883]

While this is being blown out of proportion, has anyone looked at Brandon Spikes' Twitter feed recently? Man, he needs to clean up his language. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get fined by the NFL

heard so far that the NFL has no plans to address players for off-field actions directed at refs (tweets, etc). On-field is another matter.

[-JJ-]

I just think the frustration is misplaced. Take it to the podium. Grabbing refs or complaining about them is pointless, they are just scabs taking a paycheck , just like anyone else would. It's like yelling at color blind preschool kid because he colored the sun in green. Take it to Goodell, take it to the press.

Lobbying or flat out intimidation of refs is much , much worse than a ref making a bad call. I mean if we're gonna complain about the lack of credibility , this is it at its worse.

Normally yes...problem is Bill takes nothing to the podium. No emotion, complaints etc. You know..."it is what it is"

[GoColts8818]

Lets be honest folks Goodell is not good for the NFL as a commissioner, I'd like to believe he means well but still has no idea what he is doing or has done for the game

I disagree completely I think he has done a very good job. He's just trying to use some discpline and people don't like it because they weren't used to it before him. Frankly with the refs I think he needed to step in the way he did. The more I think about it it's clear the players and coaches were trying very hard to get calls out of the officals in ways they wouldn't even dream of trying if the regular officals were there. The league needed to step in and say stop it and back them up. Going off what I said before if the replacement refs are the substitute teacher and the regular refs are the regular teachers that makes the league office the principal. They are steping in and backing up their teachers and keeping the "students" the players and coaches in line.

The replacement refs are doing the best job they can and yes they are missing some calls but it doesn't give the coaches and players the right to act the way they are. We've seen regular refs make calls and miss them the difference is when that would happen coaches might carry on for a second but what would happen when you put a micro phone in front of them? They would say something like "we just have to play threw it." "It is what it is." Very rarely would you hear them take them to task like the players and coaches have been doing with the replacement refs and I think Goodell is well with in his rights to say stop it enough is enough.

Also I don't want to hear players bring up the player safety card. They are the ones fighting with the comish anytime he tries to suspend a player or fine a player for taking an unneeded shot to the head or admit they fake tests so they can go back into the game if they get a head injury and then turn around and join a lawsuit of the NFL becuase of head injuries. On top of that if the players are so concerned about player safety and they don't think it's safe then strike and miss a couple of pay checks because it's not safe. Once it comes down to taking money out of the players pocket I don't think they are interested in that and they will be just happy with the replacement refs.

Goodell's job is to do what is best for the league and that doesn't mean just caving and giving the refs what they want. BOTH sides need to move to the middle on this. It doesn't sound like either side is willing to move till the other one does.

[GoColts8818]

Normally yes...problem is Bill takes nothing to the podium. No emotion, complaints etc. You know..."it is what it is"

Honestly the way BB has handled it since he grabbed the ref I have no issue with. He's said what he should and really hasn't said much about the refs. He just can't touch them and I think even he would admit that. That's why I think a fine will happen and that will be that. It sends the message to the players you can't do that because if they don't fine them it's sorta saying it's okay and you can believe fans will get a little more physical with them and you can't have that. Remember this is a league that once threw Brandon Stokley (as a Bronco) out of a game for just barely grazing an offical when he didn't mean too and then issued him a fine on top of that. You just can't touch them that's all it comes down too.

[southwest1]

I just think the frustration is misplaced. Take it to the podium. Grabbing refs or complaining about them is pointless, they are just scabs taking a paycheck , just like anyone else would. It's like yelling at color blind preschool kid because he colored the sun in green. Take it to Goodell, take it to the press.

Lobbying or flat out intimidation of refs is much , much worse than a ref making a bad call. I mean if we're gonna complain about the lack of credibility , this is it at its worse.

I get what you're saying Joker, but taking problems to the podium in front of the media and national press is the worst move to make. You never humiliate or call into question an NFL Commissioner's policies not in the open for all to see, hear, mock, laugh, and ridicule. Only as a last resort when all other peaceful avenues have been tried and implemented.

Keep negotiations behind closed doors for as long as possible because once you start to sling mud, it can get brutal and bloody really quick. Once you complain behind a microphone in front of reporters, that bottle has been shattered for good and no genie can be slid back into that original position. A lack of consistency is the problem here and greedy owners who refuse to contemplate a position different from their own one relaxing in a luxury box.

[JoKeR]

Normally yes...problem is Bill takes nothing to the podium. No emotion, complaints etc. You know..."it is what it is"

Good points JJ. How can a coach take it to the podium, without giving his players excuses in losing. Coaches can't get into the blame game, it's all about execution and beating your man for them and staying focused. Coaches are probably battling the blame game more than they ever had to right now. It might be the biggest distraction for any given coach.

[ruksak]

Its not the refs fault they were put in this position trying to ref a pro with no experience.

I have to strongly disagree here. It is their fault and they're getting only a taste of what they deserve for what they've done.

They are SCABS that are filling in for another mans job, making it harder for that man to get back to work, and they're accepting a job that many of them clearly cannot handle.

I would rather us not have football at all, to be honest. Things have gotten to the point where teams are winning games that they shouldn't be winning because the same people charged with enforcing the rules do not even know the rules.

To date, the first part of the 2012 season is nothing more than an *asterisk* to me.

[GoColts8818]

I have to strongly disagree here. It is their fault and they're getting only a taste of what they deserve for what they've done.

They are SCABS that are filling in for another mans job, making it harder for that man to get back to work, and they're accepting a job that many of them clearly cannot handle.

I would rather us not have football at all, to be honest. Things have gotten to the point where teams are winning games that they shouldn't be winning because the same people charged with enforcing the rules do not even know the rules.

To date, the first part of the 2012 season is nothing more than an *asterisk* to me.

If you need a job and someone offers you a job then you are not wrong for taking that job.

[southwest1]

One last point: If I saw Roger Goodell was yanking my chain and not negotiating in good faith, I can throw jabs, barbs, and mud with the best money the NFL shield can throw at me. If I decide to dig in, stand my ground, and fight; the NFL is going down...Winning the battle of public opinion trumps money and resources 85% of the time and I am usually one smooth talker with both a sympathetic and lethal tongue when necessary.

My point is once players, coaches, and fans decide to say enough is enough Roger Goodell don't be timid, go for the Jugular, and knock your adversary out as quickly as possible. As Sun Tzu said in the "Art of War," "every battle is won before it is ever fought." Confidence, tenacity, and a "lights out" mentality mean everything. Life is just a series of negotiations and who is still standing and thriving in the end.

There's an old classic line in Western films, "when you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."

[ruksak]

If you need a job and someone offers you a job then you are not wrong for taking that job.

Okay.

I just got a job as a brain surgeon. Would you like to be my first patient?

Hey....sorry about the mental tardation I accidentally gave you. I needed a paycheck. My last job as a janitor didn't pay well so when I saw an add for 'Brain Surgeons Wanted' I responded.

[GoColts8818]

Okay.

I just got a job as a brain surgeon. Would you like to be my first patient?

Hey....sorry about the mental #ation I accidentally gave you. I needed a paycheck. My last job as a janitor didn't pay well so when I saw an add for 'Brain Surgeons Wanted' I responded.

Except a Brain Surgeon aren't hired like that not even close. These guys were officals even if at a lower level it's not like they plucked guys off the street and said hey would you like to come work some games? If a doctor had gone to years of medical school and had the training to be a Brain Surgeon and was trained yes I would go to them.

[ColtsSouljah]

If a player makes contact with a ref, it's an automatic suspension. Why should a coach be different?

[Fx Stryker]

Normally yes...problem is Bill takes nothing to the podium. No emotion, complaints etc. You know..."it is what it is"

At least Bill isn't John Tortorella.

[jvan1973]

I have to strongly disagree here. It is their fault and they're getting only a taste of what they deserve for what they've done.

They are SCABS that are filling in for another mans job, making it harder for that man to get back to work, and they're accepting a job that many of them clearly cannot handle.

I would rather us not have football at all, to be honest. Things have gotten to the point where teams are winning games that they shouldn't be winning because the same people charged with enforcing the rules do not even know the rules.

To date, the first part of the 2012 season is nothing more than an *asterisk* to me.

I agree they are terrible, but i havent seen an example of a game being lost or won by a blown call yet. No more so than the regular refs.

[Gavin]

I disagree completely I think he has done a very good job. He's just trying to use some discpline and people don't like it because they weren't used to it before him. Frankly with the refs I think he needed to step in the way he did. The more I think about it it's clear the players and coaches were trying very hard to get calls out of the officals in ways they wouldn't even dream of trying if the regular officals were there. The league needed to step in and say stop it and back them up. Going off what I said before if the replacement refs are the substitute teacher and the regular refs are the regular teachers that makes the league office the principal. They are steping in and backing up their teachers and keeping the "students" the players and coaches in line.

The replacement refs are doing the best job they can and yes they are missing some calls but it doesn't give the coaches and players the right to act the way they are. We've seen regular refs make calls and miss them the difference is when that would happen coaches might carry on for a second but what would happen when you put a micro phone in front of them? They would say something like "we just have to play threw it." "It is what it is." Very rarely would you hear them take them to task like the players and coaches have been doing with the replacement refs and I think Goodell is well with in his rights to say stop it enough is enough.

Also I don't want to hear players bring up the player safety card. They are the ones fighting with the comish anytime he tries to suspend a player or fine a player for taking an unneeded shot to the head or admit they fake tests so they can go back into the game if they get a head injury and then turn around and join a lawsuit of the NFL becuase of head injuries. On top of that if the players are so concerned about player safety and they don't think it's safe then strike and miss a couple of pay checks because it's not safe. Once it comes down to taking money out of the players pocket I don't think they are interested in that and they will be just happy with the replacement refs.

Goodell's job is to do what is best for the league and that doesn't mean just caving and giving the refs what they want. BOTH sides need to move to the middle on this. It doesn't sound like either side is willing to move till the other one does.

of course he is within his rights, he appointed these refs but he is compromising the game because he doesn't want to pay the refs what they deserve

[GoColts8818]

of course he is within his rights, he appointed these refs but he is compromising the game because he doesn't want to pay the refs what they deserve

Frankly for part-time workers they are paid very well and have one heck of a health plan. That's part of the debate here people in the league office are upset because the refs health plan is better than what the full time workers of the NFL have. Make no mistake the refs are holding out too hoping the NFL will cave due to public pressure. They aren't just poor victums in this and like the article that was written by ESPN last week the calls are about the same for the regular refs and the replacement refs. The spot light is just far more on the replacement refs and frankly I think the issue is that the replacement refs have been putting up with players and coaches lobbying to them way too much and the league has made the mistake in letting the coaches and players act the way they have acted. If they start fining coaches and players like they would if they acted this way with the regular refs this stuff will stop.

[smittywerb]

If I was BB, I would have done more than grabbed him after that blown call on the FG.

[jvan1973]

the fg was good .. it was not a blown call

[Superman]

Okay.

I just got a job as a brain surgeon. Would you like to be my first patient?

Hey....sorry about the mental tardation I accidentally gave you. I needed a paycheck. My last job as a janitor didn't pay well so when I saw an add for 'Brain Surgeons Wanted' I responded.

Don't you think you would have a moral obligation to not take a job as a brain surgeon, seeing as how you have NO credentials or qualifications to operate on someone's brain? These people are football refs. They've been doing this for a long time. They get training and practice.

They're not the best, but they are at least somewhat qualified. Certainly moreso than one of us is to be a brain surgeon.

[smittywerb]

the fg was good .. it was not a blown call

It just seems to me watching it frame by frame the ball went right of the post JUST as it came to it. I understand the rule and what's a made field goal, but I believe it was missed. The fact that people (analyst, coaches, etc.) are at still at odds about this call shows that the officials did not do a good job in reviewing the score.

[-JJ-]

I have to strongly disagree here. It is their fault and they're getting only a taste of what they deserve for what they've done.

They are SCABS that are filling in for another mans job, making it harder for that man to get back to work, and they're accepting a job that many of them clearly cannot handle.

I would rather us not have football at all, to be honest. Things have gotten to the point where teams are winning games that they shouldn't be winning because the same people charged with enforcing the rules do not even know the rules.

To date, the first part of the 2012 season is nothing more than an *asterisk* to me.

I just switched to the packer game in time to see packers get called for a major def PI when it was blatantly clear if was off PI. wow.

Aren't these college refs?

I'm in construction so I know all about scabs...having been on both sides:)

A job is a job..on both sides of the fence.

[-JJ-]

Good points JJ. How can a coach take it to the podium, without giving his players excuses in losing. Coaches can't get into the blame game, it's all about execution and beating your man for them and staying focused. Coaches are probably battling the blame game more than they ever had to right now. It might be the biggest distraction for any given coach.

Yeah BB wouldn't be caught dead giving excuses at the podium.......but grab or yelling a ref during the game..well thats a different story:)

[ruksak]

I agree they are terrible, but i havent seen an example of a game being lost or won by a blown call yet. No more so than the regular refs.

If you just watched MNF.....than you have seen the refs blow a game so hard on one call that they literally decided the winner.

Many other games had been turned completely over just on bad or missed calls.

After this MNF game....I'm done watching this joke of a league until this is fixed. With all the integrity of professional boxing, the NFL has compromised their product almost fatally.

BOOOO NFL YOU SUCK!!!!!

[jvan1973]

agreed.. that was the worst call I have ever seen

[jvan1973]

I don't know the ins and outs of the players cba.. but the players should strike until the real refs come back . they could claim unsafe work conditions. these refs have no control over the players or coaches. if the players strike I bet the real refs get back

[GoColts8818]

I don't know the ins and outs of the players cba.. but the players should strike until the real refs come back . they could claim unsafe work conditions. these refs have no control over the players or coaches. if the players strike I bet the real refs get back

They can do it but I really doubt if they will. If it comes down to taking money out of their pocket I think the players will be magically fine with the replacement refs. That's why i think all this talk about protecting the shield and integrity of the game that the players are doing is hogwash because if they really felt that way they would be doing exactly what you said.

[oldunclemark]

the fg was good .. it was not a blown call

True..and Belichek must draw a one-game suspension

You cant put your hands on the refs..or we have no game

[-JJ-]

Well after hearing Bill's explanation now it makes a little more sense.

It wasn't a case of anger and grabbing the ref but that the players had gone into the locker room might have to come back out on the field (which he cited has happened before) so he wanted an explanation was it reviewable etc.

he also prefaced by saying during training camp,pregame, and during games, officials work on communicating with coaches and QBs. Like if a coach ask what was the foul the ref might say I'll let you know during the TV break. So its all about communication and the only way Bill could get his attention was to grab him before walking away.

[GoColts8818]

Well after hearing Bill's explanation now it makes a little more sense.

It wasn't a case of anger and grabbing the ref but that the players had gone into the locker room might have to come back out on the field (which he cited has happened before) so he wanted an explanation was it reviewable etc.

he also prefaced by saying during training camp,pregame, and during games, officials work on communicating with coaches and QBs. Like if a coach ask what was the foul the ref might say I'll let you know during the TV break. So its all about communication and the only way Bill could get his attention was to grab him before walking away.

Regardless you still can't touch an offical which I why I think a fine is coming his way. Frankly I have been impressed with the way BB and the Brady have handled things since then. Frankly I'd be okay with Goodell sending the league their quotes as examples of how things should be handled after words. BB directed everything to the league office and wouldn't talk about the officials. Brady was on the radio version of MNF last night and Jim Grey asked him about three different way to try to get Brady to talk about the officials and he wouldn't take the bait. He just kept saying we didn't make enough plays to win the game. When he finally talked about BB actions after the game he said "Oh I didn't think it was a big deal ha ha (him laughing) but I am a little bit bias." Compared to Drew Brees who is complaining about the officials any chance he gets I'll give it to Brady on this one and for the record clearly I am no Pats fan at all and I do happen to like Drew Brees because of the Purdue connection.

I think the problem with talking to the coaches is that the coaches have been abusing it. They are doing everything they can to delay the game so they can "talk" to the officials and lobby for calls. I think the league told the refs enough stop talking to them if that's how they are going to treat you because frankly that's been part of the problem. Not to say BB was even trying to do this but I think this is a case of other coaches abused it so it ruined it for everyone.

[Superman]

They can do it but I really doubt if they will. If it comes down to taking money out of their pocket I think the players will be magically fine with the replacement refs. That's why i think all this talk about protecting the shield and integrity of the game that the players are doing is hogwash because if they really felt that way they would be doing exactly what you said.

They actually can't, according to Andrew Brandt.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8421697/will-seattle-seahawks-green-bay-packers-mnf-game-break-stalemate-nf

[GoColts8818]

They actually can't, according to Andrew Brandt.

http://espn.go.com/n...ak-stalemate-nf

hmm that goes against what I read on twitter earlier from Laconfora that said they could that nothing in the CBA prevented them from it.

[GoColts8818]

They actually can't, according to Andrew Brandt.

http://espn.go.com/n...ak-stalemate-nf

http://m.nbcsports.com/content/pft-could-players-strike-over-nfl-refs-lockout found this it says they can. So like most things I think it comes down to the person who reads it which means it will end up in the courts if they went that way but I don't think they will because I really don't the players care enough to strike and lose money over this issue. They care more about trying to make Rodger Goodell look bad which is all they are trying to do.

[JimJaime]

I agree they are terrible, but i havent seen an example of a game being lost or won by a blown call yet. No more so than the regular refs.

SEE MONDAY NIGHTS GAME for a PRIME EXAMPLE!!! thats a CLEAR screw up that NO reg official makes and DIRECTLY cost the GB team the win.. (and trying say all their phantom calls or blatant missed calls are the same as normal refs is insulting to the norm refs and people watching!)

[Superman]

http://m.nbcsports.c...fl-refs-lockout found this it says they can. So like most things I think it comes down to the person who reads it which means it will end up in the courts if they went that way but I don't think they will because I really don't the players care enough to strike and lose money over this issue. They care more about trying to make Rodger Goodell look bad which is all they are trying to do.

I should have mentioned that this would be an issue for the courts, but the language in the CBA regarding strikes makes it highly unlikely that the players would risk it. And that's assuming you could get past the fact that it would cost them a ton of money, which you can't.

We agree, the players aren't going to strike over this. They could and probably should stage some sort of symbolic demonstration, not in support of the old refs or in defiance of the replacements, but to signal to the owners that they believe the official situation needs to be resolved already.

[ViriLudant]

Jules was right; that FG was no good.

Doubt it? Watch it yourself:

Btw, watch the game film, and you'll notice one thing: the refs don't even look up to see if it was good.

Awesome.

[ViriLudant]

Oh, and by the way, the ref who signaled a TD in the Packers/Seahawks game?

A middle school and high school referee. The guy who correctly ruled it an INT reffed in the Big 12.

That's quality, folks.

[-JJ-]

Regardless you still can't touch an offical which I why I think a fine is coming his way. Frankly I have been impressed with the way BB and the Brady have handled things since then. Frankly I'd be okay with Goodell sending the league their quotes as examples of how things should be handled after words. BB directed everything to the league office and wouldn't talk about the officials. Brady was on the radio version of MNF last night and Jim Grey asked him about three different way to try to get Brady to talk about the officials and he wouldn't take the bait. He just kept saying we didn't make enough plays to win the game. When he finally talked about BB actions after the game he said "Oh I didn't think it was a big deal ha ha (him laughing) but I am a little bit bias." Compared to Drew Brees who is complaining about the officials any chance he gets I'll give it to Brady on this one and for the record clearly I am no Pats fan at all and I do happen to like Drew Brees because of the Purdue connection.

I think the problem with talking to the coaches is that the coaches have been abusing it. They are doing everything they can to delay the game so they can "talk" to the officials and lobby for calls. I think the league told the refs enough stop talking to them if that's how they are going to treat you because frankly that's been part of the problem. Not to say BB was even trying to do this but I think this is a case of other coaches abused it so it ruined it for everyone.

Yeah I'm not excusing the hands on. Just that I did get a chance to see anything the next day so my 1st reaction watching the game was I thought he was handling them out of anger for the game as opposed to actually trying to get his attention for an explanation.