Sceme Change With Collins?

[horsehead213]

I've been thinking about how Collins and chris johnson in Tennessee and how he would screen out to him,

they had success, I just hope he can do the same with our young talent,we seen Javarris james make some

good screen plays last game,not even including Garcon and what he can do in a screen....will we see alot more

of our Rb's from him or receivers?

[Albaby]

This might force the Colts into developing a stronger running game. Which is what they have been needing. Now, when Payton gets back, they hopefully keep the running game alive along with Payton's ariel assualt. Might just be a good thing. Go Colts!

[jvan1973]

This might force the Colts into developing a stronger running game. Which is what they have been needing. Now, when Payton gets back, they hopefully keep the running game alive along with Payton's ariel assualt. Might just be a good thing. Go Colts!

I wish we had PAyton.... man he was a great running back..

[Smonroe]

I've been thinking about how Collins and chris johnson in Tennessee and how he would screen out to him,

they had success, I just hope he can do the same with our young talent,we seen Javarris james make some

good screen plays last game,not even including Garcon and what he can do in a screen....will we see alot more

of our Rb's from him or receivers?

Could be, especially Joe. I really don't think James will make the team, we sort of know the most we can get from him. I think it will be Joe, DB, and Carter, with Evans on the PS.

As far as Collins, of course I hope he doesn't play a down in the regular season. But if Peyton doesn't play the first couple games, the upside is that he won't be taking the hits while the new O-line gels. Let Collins earn that 4Mil.

[Albaby]

I wish we had PAyton.... man he was a great running back..

My spelling isn't the greatest. Sorry

[Smitto]

Yea james wont be making this team, collins will be running a watered down offense. I dont really know what that means but im guessing its gonna be simple for him, after all the main things differnt about playbooks are their terminology. It would have been awesome if he can scramble he's a big dude but he's just like an old byron leftwitch.

[horsehead213]

Good point, ya know alot of people havent really heard much from Garcon this year but i have a feeling

this is going to be a break out year for him,he's tough,fast,and very physical catching the ball,ive got him starting

on my fantasy league so i hope he does as well as i expect him to do....

[chad72]

Kerry Collins has a pretty good deep ball, even as late as last year. I expect more throws to the outside to Garcon and Wayne. Manning's strength was exploiting the seam, he is master at that, he exploits it more than anyone else I have seen, Drew Brees comes close to him and then Brady and Rodgers for the seam routes. But Brees has a better deep ball.

Kerry Collins either goes outside more, or checks it down to the RB or TE. I have a feeling the slot WR production will suffer with Kerry in there, Wayne's and Garcon's may go up unless they play Collie on the outside more in 2 WR formations like they did in TC.

[jwilli69]

If I played fantasy football, no way do I invest ina Colt WR because if Manning isn't playing, they see less yards. The TE's and the RB's, now I might take the TE spot from the Colts cause that is where I see the scoring going to and if the oline can block in space, the RB's have a chance to break it off as well, meaning Donald Brown, and I am not a Donald Brown fan at all.

[BlueRedZone]

id like some dump off's to DB. Keep Joe Addai in the backfield to block.

[4mvps]

ITS PEYTON

[Albaby]

ITS PEYTON

Once again, thank you for the clarification! I've been reading this forum for the past four years and hesitated to make any comments. Now I'm sorry that I did. I'm a Colts fan and always will be, I'm not so sure I'm a forum fan though.

[Rich Cannon]

I've been thinking about how Collins and chris johnson in Tennessee and how he would screen out to him,

they had success, I just hope he can do the same with our young talent,we seen Javarris james make some

good screen plays last game,not even including Garcon and what he can do in a screen....will we see alot more

of our Rb's from him or receivers?

I do believe we will lean on the running game a tad bit more to make things easier for Collins at first. I expect 200-225 yds 2 TD type of game from Collins in game one, nothing more nothing less. I also expect to see alot of check downs and crossing patterns. If Peyton has to miss extensive time I think the playbook will gradually open wider with Collins gaining experience in our system. He is a servicable backup

[Superman]

Kerry Collins has a pretty good deep ball, even as late as last year. I expect more throws to the outside to Garcon and Wayne. Manning's strength was exploiting the seam, he is master at that, he exploits it more than anyone else I have seen, Drew Brees comes close to him and then Brady and Rodgers for the seam routes. But Brees has a better deep ball.

Kerry Collins either goes outside more, or checks it down to the RB or TE. I have a feeling the slot WR production will suffer with Kerry in there, Wayne's and Garcon's may go up unless they play Collie on the outside more in 2 WR formations like they did in TC.

Yeah, you want Collins throwing the ball outside the hashes, or short across the middle. Not up the seam, not post routes, not play-action comebacks, etc. Maximize the high percentage passes, minimize or eliminate the difficult throws, and just let him be a caretaker.

[JoKeR]

Once again, thank you for the clarification! I've been reading this forum for the past four years and hesitated to make any comments. Now I'm sorry that I did. I'm a Colts fan and always will be, I'm not so sure I'm a forum fan though.

Some are quick to correct around here but some of the biggest offenders seem to be quite these days.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Some are quick to correct around here but some of the biggest offenders seem to be quite these days.

i agree they are talking more football and less fan bashing!

[Coltsfanincincy]

So what happens if Collins lights it up, and we are undefeated? Do we have a controversy?

[Coltsman1788]

Once again, thank you for the clarification! I've been reading this forum for the past four years and hesitated to make any comments. Now I'm sorry that I did. I'm a Colts fan and always will be, I'm not so sure I'm a forum fan though.

Hey man don't let it get you down. The mis-spelling of Peyton's name is just a pet peeve for many. Nevertheless, it is nice to have you around and thanks for posting after lurking for so many years. I used to lurk around on various Colts forums alot myself. Stepping out for the first time to start posting actively can be a little intimidating. But I encourage you to just keep posting because you are a Colts fan and have just as much right to post as anyone else. Just get 18's name right. lol Go Colts!

[dynasty13]

If I played fantasy football, no way do I invest ina Colt WR because if Manning isn't playing, they see less yards. The TE's and the RB's, now I might take the TE spot from the Colts cause that is where I see the scoring going to and if the oline can block in space, the RB's have a chance to break it off as well, meaning Donald Brown, and I am not a Donald Brown fan at all.

This is the kind of stuff that I dont understand about many Colts fans. You make it sound like Peyton is the only quarterback in the world thats capable of completing a pass. There are 31 other teams that dont have Peyton Manning, and they do just fine. Just because you have a history of having pis-poor backup quarterbacks, that doesnt mean that someone like Collins wont be able to step in with the talent you have on your roster and succeed. Many of you talk like you have one of the strongest receiving corps...heck...if I didnt know anything about football and my only exposure to it was reading this board, youd have me believing that Anthony Gonzales, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Reggie Wayne were all future Hall of Famers. All of a sudden if they dont have the almighty Peyton Manning these guys will just become scrubs? I dont buy it...if Peyton doesnt play, sure theyll adapt their gameplan and play to the quarterback's strenghts. Every team does that when they're dealing with injuries, and many have found success. But the playmakers will still make plays, and if the team is as good as many of you believe, they may even win, too.

[Susie Q]

This is the kind of stuff that I dont understand about many Colts fans. You make it sound like Peyton is the only quarterback in the world thats capable of completing a pass. There are 31 other teams that dont have Peyton Manning, and they do just fine. Just because you have a history of having pis-poor backup quarterbacks, that doesnt mean that someone like Collins wont be able to step in with the talent you have on your roster and succeed. Many of you talk like you have one of the strongest receiving corps...heck...if I didnt know anything about football and my only exposure to it was reading this board, youd have me believing that Anthony Gonzales, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Reggie Wayne were all future Hall of Famers. All of a sudden if they dont have the almighty Peyton Manning these guys will just become scrubs? I dont buy it...if Peyton doesnt play, sure theyll adapt their gameplan and play to the quarterback's strenghts. Every team does that when they're dealing with injuries, and many have found success. But the playmakers will still make plays, and if the team is as good as many of you believe, they may even win, too.

Thanks for the great post and it was worth reading. Peyton if he can't start will be missed but I think that they will do fine under Collins. I think we will have some wins too. I hope Peyton can start but I'm not upset with the new addition at all.

[Superman]

This is the kind of stuff that I dont understand about many Colts fans. You make it sound like Peyton is the only quarterback in the world thats capable of completing a pass. There are 31 other teams that dont have Peyton Manning, and they do just fine. Just because you have a history of having pis-poor backup quarterbacks, that doesnt mean that someone like Collins wont be able to step in with the talent you have on your roster and succeed. Many of you talk like you have one of the strongest receiving corps...heck...if I didnt know anything about football and my only exposure to it was reading this board, youd have me believing that Anthony Gonzales, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Reggie Wayne were all future Hall of Famers. All of a sudden if they dont have the almighty Peyton Manning these guys will just become scrubs? I dont buy it...if Peyton doesnt play, sure theyll adapt their gameplan and play to the quarterback's strenghts. Every team does that when they're dealing with injuries, and many have found success. But the playmakers will still make plays, and if the team is as good as many of you believe, they may even win, too.

You've been holding that in for a while, huh?

I understand what you're saying, but the poster you're quoting isn't saying anything wrong. The production from our receivers will almost certainly go down without Manning in the lineup. I don't see how that's even debatable.

[dynasty13]

You've been holding that in for a while, huh?

I understand what you're saying, but the poster you're quoting isn't saying anything wrong. The production from our receivers will almost certainly go down without Manning in the lineup. I don't see how that's even debatable.

I wasnt holding it in...but reading many of these posts over the years about how the Colts are a 4 win team at best without Peyton and how no other quarterback could possibly find success with the Colts just...i dont know...it reeks of naievity. I agree that their production will 'go down'....but 'going nowhere near them' is quite dramatic. I mean...how did guys like Brandon Lloyd or Dwayne Bowe find so much success last year? How come Calvin Johnson and Mike Williams were good fantasy receivers last year? They didnt have Peyton Manning throwing to them. In fact, they didnt have quarterbacks anywhere near the top 'tier' in talent throwing to them.

Thats my only point...that many are under this illusion that no other quarterback is capable of stepping in and winning with this team...and that view is based solely on watching pitiful backups play a few quarters each year in meaningless games. The Colts have talent. A capable backup will win with this roster.

[horsehead213]

lol i really wanna start a thread that says"opinions are like *holes,every body has one"

[Superman]

I wasnt holding it in...but reading many of these posts over the years about how the Colts are a 4 win team at best without Peyton and how no other quarterback could possibly find success with the Colts just...i dont know...it reeks of naievity. I agree that their production will 'go down'....but 'going nowhere near them' is quite dramatic. I mean...how did guys like Brandon Lloyd or Dwayne Bowe find so much success last year? How come Calvin Johnson and Mike Williams were good fantasy receivers last year? They didnt have Peyton Manning throwing to them. In fact, they didnt have quarterbacks anywhere near the top 'tier' in talent throwing to them.

Thats my only point...that many are under this illusion that no other quarterback is capable of stepping in and winning with this team...and that view is based solely on watching pitiful backups play a few quarters each year in meaningless games. The Colts have talent. A capable backup will win with this roster.

Setting aside what the other poster said, which was simply that our receivers won't be as productive if Manning isn't playing...

Manning's impact is obvious. If you replace him with an average quarterback, it's going to cost you several wins. I don't think you'd argue that. That said, and acknowledging the reduced production from the receivers, it's still possible to make adjustments and have a measure of success without him. Sure. We saw the Pats do this in 2008. It varies from team to team and situation to situation, but if you have a good backup, you still have a chance to win games.

Aaron Rodgers got hurt against the Lions last year. Matt Flynn came in and didn't play awful, but was unable to put any points up and they lost 7-3. Flynn starts the next week, and actually has a really good game, in the face of all the media and probably fans who overreacted after they weren't able to score in the Lions game. And they still lost to the Pats, but they scored 27 points and he threw 3 touchdowns. Before these two games, Flynn had started zero games and had attempted 20 passes. Now, he's considered one of the better backups in the NFL. You never know what your backup can do until he gets a shot in a real game. By extension, you never know what your offense will look like without your #1 until you're put in that position.

Still, it's not rocket science to project out that if you lose one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL -- someone many would call a top five quarterback of all time -- that your offense is going to suffer. Include the fact that our offensive line has been inconsistent at best, and our running game hasn't been undependable, and it's hard to see our offense do too much of anything without Manning. Replace him with Kyle Orton or Matt Cassel, and you might break .500. Replace him with Tony Romo or Eli Manning, and you might make the playoffs. But you're not one of the most potent offenses in the NFL without him, not unless you replace him with another top five quarterback. And if you trot out a guy like Curtis Painter, who doesn't look like much, you might as well kiss the season goodbye.

I understand the angst among Colts fans. Kerry Collins is a hit/miss proposition. If he hits, we don't totally suck, but we still aren't a contender. If he misses, we get run off the field. One man has taken the snaps for 13 years. This is an unknown situation.

[Coltsman1788]

This is the kind of stuff that I dont understand about many Colts fans. You make it sound like Peyton is the only quarterback in the world thats capable of completing a pass. There are 31 other teams that dont have Peyton Manning, and they do just fine. Just because you have a history of having pis-poor backup quarterbacks, that doesnt mean that someone like Collins wont be able to step in with the talent you have on your roster and succeed. Many of you talk like you have one of the strongest receiving corps...heck...if I didnt know anything about football and my only exposure to it was reading this board, youd have me believing that Anthony Gonzales, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Reggie Wayne were all future Hall of Famers. All of a sudden if they dont have the almighty Peyton Manning these guys will just become scrubs? I dont buy it...if Peyton doesnt play, sure theyll adapt their gameplan and play to the quarterback's strenghts. Every team does that when they're dealing with injuries, and many have found success. But the playmakers will still make plays, and if the team is as good as many of you believe, they may even win, too.

Agreed...Peyton is great but he doesn't own the patent on competent quarterbacking. I believe with the talent on our offense, a reasonably competent quarterback should be able to move the chains and score some points. The only concern that I have is that the offensive system is unique and tailor-made for Peyton which is why it is difficult to find someone else outside the system to run it effectively. However, if we were to run a more traditional offensive system, then I believe that a reasonably competent quarterback could come in and be effective.

[chad72]

However, if we were to run a more traditional offensive system, then I believe that a reasonably competent quarterback could come in and be effective.

We will run a different system with someone else at QB. We give the reins to Manning because he has run and improvized this system with Moore's help over the years. Now, Christensen is helping him improvize it together. Just like we would have a different outlook once Manning retires with regards to where we put the money, what kind of system we will run etc.

Decisions are made with your MVP in mind but once the MVP is not available, the coaches are paid to improvize to cater to the strengths of the horses we have in the race. Let us hope we get it done there.

[Smonroe]

Once again, thank you for the clarification! I've been reading this forum for the past four years and hesitated to make any comments. Now I'm sorry that I did. I'm a Colts fan and always will be, I'm not so sure I'm a forum fan though.

Don't be too upset, you were yelled at by a guy who doesn't know how to spell "IT'S".

[seeblu]

This is the kind of stuff that I dont understand about many Colts fans. You make it sound like Peyton is the only quarterback in the world thats capable of completing a pass. There are 31 other teams that dont have Peyton Manning, and they do just fine. Just because you have a history of having pis-poor backup quarterbacks, that doesnt mean that someone like Collins wont be able to step in with the talent you have on your roster and succeed. Many of you talk like you have one of the strongest receiving corps...heck...if I didnt know anything about football and my only exposure to it was reading this board, youd have me believing that Anthony Gonzales, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Reggie Wayne were all future Hall of Famers. All of a sudden if they dont have the almighty Peyton Manning these guys will just become scrubs? I dont buy it...if Peyton doesnt play, sure theyll adapt their gameplan and play to the quarterback's strenghts. Every team does that when they're dealing with injuries, and many have found success. But the playmakers will still make plays, and if the team is as good as many of you believe, they may even win, too.

Your premise is very good, other teams win with backups. However, Kerry Collins is coming in cold, without OTA's or training camp. Hasn't thrown a pass for months and surely has not thrown a pass to any of our WR's. Plus he had decided to retire so he has not been working out and he will not be in NFL game condition. Will Collie play the entire season or suffer more concusions and be held out? How healthy is Gonzales?

Add to this, the Colts are moving Diem to RG, a rookie, Constanzo, at LT, Reitz at LG is an entirely new OL. The Colts are in for a less than successful season even if Peyton starts the season healthy, and he won't be the Peyton we are used to seeing. He has not thrown a pass since the season ended last year.

[lost soldier]

This is the kind of stuff that I dont understand about many Colts fans. You make it sound like Peyton is the only quarterback in the world thats capable of completing a pass. There are 31 other teams that dont have Peyton Manning, and they do just fine. Just because you have a history of having pis-poor backup quarterbacks, that doesnt mean that someone like Collins wont be able to step in with the talent you have on your roster and succeed. Many of you talk like you have one of the strongest receiving corps...heck...if I didnt know anything about football and my only exposure to it was reading this board, youd have me believing that Anthony Gonzales, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Reggie Wayne were all future Hall of Famers. All of a sudden if they dont have the almighty Peyton Manning these guys will just become scrubs? I dont buy it...if Peyton doesnt play, sure theyll adapt their gameplan and play to the quarterback's strenghts. Every team does that when they're dealing with injuries, and many have found success. But the playmakers will still make plays, and if the team is as good as many of you believe, they may even win, too.

Good post, I think there will be a definite drop in capability at QB, but not nearly as much with Collins as there would have been with Painter. I'm sorry but Painter has never played well in the few times he has gotten into a game. Collins on the other hand has done pretty good in this league. I also think we do have a strong receiving corps in Wayne, Collie, and Clark... but from there it falls off. I think Gonzales could be good but he has to stay healthy but Garcon just is not consistent enough. The advantage of the other receivers is they will still make a good QB like Collins look good they are great route runners and catch everything thrown there way. So IMHO getting Collins was a great move to keep things stable until Manning returns. If Manning doesn't return, we will probably be a playoff contender, if Manning returns healthy with his receivers I would say we will go deep into the playoffs, if Painter starts it will be a long season.

[Superman]

Your premise is very good, other teams win with backups. However, Kerry Collins is coming in cold, without OTA's or training camp. Hasn't thrown a pass for months and surely has not thrown a pass to any of our WR's. Plus he had decided to retire so he has not been working out and he will not be in NFL game condition. Will Collie play the entire season or suffer more concusions and be held out? How healthy is Gonzales?

Add to this, the Colts are moving Diem to RG, a rookie, Constanzo, at LT, Reitz at LG is an entirely new OL. The Colts are in for a less than successful season even if Peyton starts the season healthy, and he won't be the Peyton we are used to seeing. He has not thrown a pass since the season ended last year.

NFL level quarterbacks throw passes every day. You don't know that Kerry Collins hasn't thrown a pass for months. I highly doubt that's the case, as a matter of fact. I know for a fact that Manning has been throwing, we even had reports of it. He worked out with his teammates during the offseason before he had his operation. The idea that he hasn't thrown a pass since the season ended is crazy.

The changes we're making at offensive line should make us better. The line certainly wasn't anything to write home about last season. Aside from quarterback, it was the one unit not drastically affected by injury, and it was still the worst unit on the team. Any change to the line is welcome at this point. I'm concerned about how they'll play just like others are, but I'm not so down on the line that I think we can't be a good team because of it. Despite how poorly they played last year, we still were a few errant passes from being 13-3 with homefield advantage. The line can be compensated for.

We're not compensating for not having Manning.

[21isSuperman]

While Collins is certainly no Manning, he will give us a much better chance to win than anyone else available. Collins has played in many games, has had tons of success in the league and knows the basics of an NFL offense. I would be much more comfortable with him starting for us in place of Painter. Collins can read defenses way better, plays QB much better and can lead an offense way better than Painter.