For those that think we should go RB at 3....

[esmort]

4 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

You are not riding ANY player form ANY position to the Super Bowl.

 

So why would you pass up on hall of famers?

 

That's crazy. That is the "certifiable" thing I was talking about. 

 

Because the impact they (elite RBs) will have versus good-very good RBs  ... is not as great as the drop off at other positions.

[NorthernBlue]

12 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I just showed you 3 random years, all of which makes my point VERY WELL!

 

Your facts are skewed to fit your opinion. 

 

I think you need to look deeper at what actually happens in an NFL draft. 

 ok so you think that finding a legit RB late in the draft isn't as easy? And that it's no different for pass rushers? 

 

Okie dokie I'll play your game. 

 

Here's are the top pass rushers from the 2012 draft (ranked by sacks). Notice the round they were drafted. 

 

1	21	NWE	Chandler Jones	DE	22	2017	1	2	6	51	29	87	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	224	1	64.0	Syracuse	College Stats
3	72	MIA	Olivier Vernon	LB	21	2017	0	0	5	41	21	92	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	206	1	44.5	Miami (FL)	College Stats
1	26	HOU	Whitney Mercilus	DE	22	2017	0	0	4	37	37	83	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	156		38.5	Illinois	College Stats
1	15	SEA	Bruce Irvin	DE	24	2017	0	0	5	35	22	90	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	181	3	37.0	West Virginia	College Stats
1	18	SDG	Melvin Ingram	DE	23	2017	0	0	4	37	37	77	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	185		35.0	South Carolina	College Stats
1	12	PHI	Fletcher Cox	DT	21	2017	0	3	6	56	56	93	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	204		34.0	Mississippi St.	College Stats
1	28	GNB	Nick Perry	DE	22	2017	0	0	0	19	19	72	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	134	1	30.5	USC	College Stats
5	137	DEN	Malik Jackson	DT	22	2017	0	1	3	34	15	94	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	167		29.0	Tennessee	College Stats

6 of em round 1.

6	173	WAS	Alfred Morris	RB	23	2017	0	2	4	33	28	92	0	0	0	0	0	1262	5503	32	57	421	0	3			Florida Atlantic	College Stats
4	97	MIA	Lamar Miller	RB	21	2017	0	0	5	36	23	91	0	0	0	0	0	1144	4891	27	184	1402	7	3			Miami (FL)	College Stats
1	31	TAM	Doug Martin	RB	23	2017	1	2	5	35	35	68	0	0	0	0	0	1150	4633	26	130	1091	2	1			Boise St.	College Stats

1	3	CLE	Trent Richardson	RB	22	2014	0	0	3	17	7	46	0	0	0	0	0	614	2032	17	113	912	2	1			Alabama	College Stats
3	67	DEN	Ronnie Hillman	RB	21	2016	0	0	1	17	15	56	0	0	0	0	0	494	1976	12	74	524	1	1			San Diego St.	College Stats

3	84	BAL	Bernard Pierce	RB	22	2015	0	0	0	10	10	52	0	0	0	0	0	359	1345	5	32	171	0	2			Temple	College Stats
4	106	SEA	Robert Turbin	RB	22	2017	0	0	0	16	11	79	0	0	0	0	0	351	1344	9	85	685	3	4			Utah St.	College Stats
7	229	PHI	Bryce Brown	RB	21	2015	0	0	0	9	6	42	0	0	0	0	0	251	1076	7	37	316	0	1			Kansas St.	College Stats

Now here are the RBs. Only 2 of em are round 1.

 

Okay maybe the 2012 draft is a bad example. I mean, TRich is 4th for rushing yards by a back, So lets try a different year.

 

1	5	DET	Ezekiel Ansah	DE	24	2017	0	1	5	36	36	73	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	155		44.0	BYU	College Stats
2	44	CAR	Kawann Short	DT	24	2017	0	1	3	33	33	80	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	134		29.5	Purdue	College Stats
1	13	NYJ	Sheldon Richardson	DT	22	2017	0	1	3	43	35	73	0	0	0	0	0	4	4	2	0	0	0	169	1	19.0	Missouri	College Stats
4	103	ARI	Alex Okafor	DE	22	2017	0	0	3	20	15	52	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	91	1	18.0	Texas	College Stats
4	132	DET	Devin Taylor	DE	23	2017	0	0	1	12	12	63	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	70		15.0	South Carolina	College Stats
2	52	NWE	Jamie Collins	LB	23	2017	0	1	4	35	29	64	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	275	6	13.5	Southern Miss	College Stats
4	129	BAL	John Simon	DE	22	2017	0	0	1	13	1	54	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	106	1	13.0	Ohio St.	College Stats
2	49	NYG	Johnathan Hankins	DT	21	2017	0	0	4	28	17	67	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	113		12.0	Ohio St.	College Stats

Not as good for the top pass rushers. 2 of em were round 1. But 5 of 8 were top 2 rounds. 

 

But lets see how the RBs of that year did.

2	48	PIT	Le'Veon Bell	RB	21	2017	2	3	4	56	56	62	0	1	0	0	0	1229	5336	35	312	2660	7	3			Michigan St.	College Stats
2	61	GNB	Eddie Lacy	RB	22	2017	0	1	3	36	34	60	0	0	0	0	0	857	3614	23	107	947	6	3			Alabama	College Stats
6	181	OAK	Latavius Murray	RB	23	2017	0	1	3	25	18	61	0	0	0	0	0	759	3120	28	106	742	0	4			Central Florida	College Stats
2	37	CIN	Giovani Bernard	RB	21	2017	0	0	1	34	34	71	0	0	0	0	0	688	2900	16	230	2060	8	4			North Carolina	College Stats
6	187	ARI	Andre Ellington	RB	24	2017	0	0	1	18	17	65	0	0	0	0	0	418	1752	10	151	1368	3	2			Clemson	College Stats
5	160	STL	Zac Stacy	RB	22	2015	0	0	1	11	10	35	0	0	0	0	0	357	1355	9	53	358	1				Vanderbilt	College Stats
6	194	SEA	Spencer Ware	RB	21	2016	0	0	1	13	0	27	0	0	0	0	0	289	1334	9	39	452	2				LSU	College Stats
5	164	MIA	Mike Gillislee	RB	22	2017	0	0	0	10	0	32	0	0	0	0	0	258	1248	16	16	94	1	2			Florida	College Stats

 

This is a pretty good group of running backs right here. Most are still in the league. Couple stars/guys who had great seasons. None of em are round 1. 3 are round 2. 

 

Ok maybe I'm nitpicking? Lets try another year. 2010. 

2	54	CIN	Carlos Dunlap	DE	21	2017	0	2	5	53	53	118	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	249	2	64.5	Florida	College Stats
4	100	MIN	Everson Griffen	DE	22	2017	0	3	4	51	51	121	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	189	1	61.0	USC	College Stats
4	120	CIN	Geno Atkins	DT	22	2017	2	6	7	76	76	121	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	190		61.0	Georgia	College Stats
1	15	NYG	Jason Pierre-Paul	DE	21	2017	1	2	6	53	53	111	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	309	2	58.0	South Florida	College Stats
1	2	DET	Ndamukong Suh	DT	23	2017	3	5	8	79	58	126	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	289	1	51.5	Nebraska	College Stats
1	3	TAM	Gerald McCoy	DT	22	2017	1	6	7	61	61	109	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	201		48.5	Oklahoma	College Stats
1	16	TEN	Derrick Morgan	DE	21	2017	0	0	7	36	36	105	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	189		44.0	Georgia Tech	College Stats
1	31	IND	Jerry Hughes	DE	22	2017	0	0	4	36	4	120	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	195		40.0	TCU	College Stats

 

Two of the top 8 are round 4. The rest are round 2 and above. 5 guys taken 1st round.

 

1	12	SDG	Ryan Mathews	RB	22	2016	0	1	5	43	36	86	0	0	0	0	0	1184	5261	37	179	1371	3	3			Fresno St.	College Stats
1	9	BUF	C.J. Spiller	RB	23	2017	0	1	3	34	32	90	0	0	0	0	0	712	3451	12	198	1484	9	2			Clemson	College Stats
6	193	GNB	James Starks	RB	24	2016	0	0	0	27	27	76	0	0	0	0	0	618	2506	9	125	1017	6	1			Buffalo	College Stats
2	58	HOU	Ben Tate	RB	22	2014	0	0	0	14	13	51	0	0	0	0	0	540	2363	14	67	347	0	2			Auburn	College Stats
2	51	MIN	Toby Gerhart	RB	23	2015	0	0	0	16	13	82	0	0	0	0	0	397	1675	7	100	809	3	8			Stanford	College Stats

6	188	PIT	Jonathan Dwyer	RB	21	2014	0	0	0	8	8	38	0	0	0	0	0	246	1022	3	29	184	0				Georgia Tech	College Stats

6	173	SFO	Anthony Dixon	RB	23	2015	0	0	0	7	3	96	0	0	0	0	0	274	934	11	23	140	0	8			Mississippi St.	College Stats
2	59	CLE	Montario Hardesty	RB	23	2012	0	0	0	4	4	23	0	0	0	0	0	153	537	1	16	138	0				Tennessee	College Stats

 

2 guys taken round 1. 3 guys taken round 6. Though there are a couple second rounders. 

 

So in total. 13 (out of 24) of the top pass rushers in the draft are taken round 1. 54 %

4 (out of 24) of the backs are taken round 1. Around 16 %.

 

You can get a serviceable back late in the draft. He may not be Saquon, but Luck doesn't need Saquon. Just like how Brady doesn't have a stud RB. Or Peyton didn't have a superstar when he won his rings. Or Rodgers when he won his.

 

Luck is good enough to win championships without Saquon Barkley. A stud pass rusher (or corner, or linebacker, or olinemen) would help him more. 

[BlueShoe]

4 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

I understand perfectly ... but you clearly said IF we don't trade back, and he does not take Barkley (which is a very realistic scenario) ... than he is "childish" or "certifiable" which is the same as saying stupid.  So CB is only "not stupid" in 2 possible choices out of probably 5 or 6  legitimate options.

 

Passing on Barkley and also not trading back is NOT realistic. 

 

For some reason you think it is though. 

[BlueShoe]

6 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

Because the impact they (elite RBs) will have versus good-very good RBs  ... is not as great as the drop off at other positions.

 

I disagree.

 

Look at the impact that great running backs have on their teams. 

 

Even as recent as Elliot. The Cowboys are contenders with him and pretenders without him.

 

The Jaguars almost made it to the Super Bowl! The Jaguars!

 

Great players make a difference on football teams. Stop fooling yourself into thinking that running backs do not apply to that rule. 

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Do a little research on this guy.

 

Tom Braatz

 

LOL

 

Passing on players like Barkley (Sanders) can end careers. 

I am sorry. But bringing up Tom Braatz into this conversation is well, well asinine. You have now turned this into your personal argument where you refuse to consider anyone's opinion other than your own. You have crossed over to you being argumentative so I am done with this.

[esmort]

7 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Passing on Barkley and also not trading back is NOT realistic. 

 

For some reason you think it is though. 

 

It is realistic ... right now there are at least 3 or 4 possible and realistic selections at #3 not including Barkley ... that number could change based on combine, etc ...

[BlueShoe]

6 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

You can get a serviceable back late in the draft.

 

I truncated your post to get to the root...

 

You can find a "serviceable" back in the later rounds. It has been done before. The Colts have had a problem succeeding at it though. I like Mack, but he is not an every down back. I see him as our change of pace dude. Contrary to popular belief, difference-makers form the running back position are not just falling off trees. 

 

But let's go deeper.... Even if we were guaranteed a "serviceable" back in the later rounds....

 

I don't want a "serviceable" back, especially when a GREAT back is available. 

 

It is not smart to pass on great talent. We are afforded the position we are in, because we had a terrible season and (most likely) do not need a quarterback. You don't pass on greatness when it is available. 

[BlueShoe]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am sorry. But bringing up Tom Braatz into this conversation is well, well asinine. You have now turned this into your personal argument where you refuse to consider anyone's opinion other than your own. You have crossed over to you being argumentative so I am done with this.

 

Are you Tom Braatz?

 

If so then you should have already learned your lesson, and we should not be having this conversation.  

[BlueShoe]

17 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

Because the impact they (elite RBs) will have versus good-very good RBs  ... is not as great as the drop off at other positions.

 

That is your opinion. 

 

The Hall of Fame differs from your views on this matter. 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I truncated your post to get to the root...

 

You can find a "serviceable" back in the later rounds. It has been done before. The Colts have had a problem succeeding at it though. I like Mack, but he is not an every down back. I see him as our change of pace dude. Contrary to popular belief, difference-makers form the running back position are not just falling off trees. 

 

But let's go deeper.... Even if we were guaranteed a "serviceable" back in the later rounds....

 

I don't want a "serviceable" back, especially when a GREAT back is available. 

 

It is not smart to pass on great talent. We are afforded the position we are in, because we had a terrible season and (most likely) do not need a quarterback. You don't pass on greatness when it is available. 

The Patriots have been to the super bowl how many times??  Their system uses multiple RBs and has shown you do not need an elite RB. Out new head coach knows that system and hopefully brings that system with him. It is a proven winning system that you cannot argue with.

[esmort]

9 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I disagree.

 

Look at the impact that great running backs have on their teams. 

 

Even as recent as Elliot. The Cowboys are contenders with him and pretenders without him.

 

The Jaguars almost made it to the Super Bowl! The Jaguars!

 

Great players make a difference on football teams. Stop fooling yourself into thinking that running backs do not apply to that rule. 

 

Its not just that the Cowboys were without Elliot, it has more to do with DCs having a year of tape on DP.

 

The Jags made it as far as they did riding their defense.

 

Great RBs have less impact than other positions ... when judged against how much drop off there is from Great to good vs other positions.

[MFT5]

8 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I disagree.

 

Look at the impact that great running backs have on their teams. 

 

Even as recent as Elliot. The Cowboys are contenders with him and pretenders without him.

 

The Jaguars almost made it to the Super Bowl! The Jaguars!

 

Great players make a difference on football teams. Stop fooling yourself into thinking that running backs do not apply to that rule. 

 

Truthlly yu own your opinion but the reality & landscape of the league defines that RBs aren’t nearly as valuable as other positions

 

... it’s common sense at this point. 

 

Yes yu may knw the RBs of the teams vying for champions lure but the facts still remain, more than likely the player manning the position are mid tier caliber players. 

 

Once again it’s your opinion but it’s nonsense & outdated logic to deviate from reality.

[esmort]

3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

That is your opinion. 

 

The Hall of Fame differs from your views on this matter. 

 

If Steelers can replay their last game and can have only one either Bell or Shazier ... who you think they pick?

[BlueShoe]

4 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

It is realistic ... right now there are at least 3 or 4 possible and realistic selections at #3 not including Barkley ... that number could change based on combine, etc ...

 

The only "realistic" scenarios are...

 

The first 2 picks are quarterbacks, and we take Barkley.

 

The first 2 picks quarterbacks, and another team offers us a great deal to move back, because they also want a quarterback.

 

Only 1 of the first 2 picks is a quarterback, and we trade the No 3 overall for a Kings ransom. 

[BlueShoe]

2 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

If Steelers can replay their last game and can have only one either Bell or Shazier ... who you think they pick?

 

A healthy Bell, EVERY time. 

 

Not even close. 

[esmort]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

 

A healthy Bell, EVERY time. 

 

Not even close. 

 

Wrong ... that game didn't hinge on Bell

[BlueShoe]

13 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The Patriots have been to the super bowl how many times??  Their system uses multiple RBs and has shown you do not need an elite RB. Out new head coach knows that system and hopefully brings that system with him. It is a proven winning system that you cannot argue with.

 

The Patriots have not picked in the top 10, in a quite some time. They have had to be thrifty with later picks. 

 

I have no doubt in my mind that if Bill Belichick was sitting at #3, that he would either take a quarterback or Barkley. 

[esmort]

3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

The only "realistic" scenarios are...

 

The first 2 picks are quarterbacks, and we take Barkley.

 

The first 2 picks quarterbacks, and another team offers us a great deal to move back, because they also want a quarterback.

 

Only 1 of the first 2 picks is a quarterback, and we trade the No 3 overall for a Kings ransom. 

 

Chubb, Fitzpatrick, and maybe Nelson are all realistic choices at 3 .. and I bet there will be at least one or two other names in the mix by draft day.

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, esmort said:

 

Wrong ... that game didn't hinge on Bell

 

So you believe if you take Bell away then it's still only a 3-point game?

 

LOL

 

You cherry pick your facts. 

[BlueShoe]

Just now, esmort said:

 

Chubb, Fitzpatrick, and maybe Nelson are all realistic choices at 3 .. and I bet there will be at least one or two other names in the mix by draft day.

 

I disagree. 

 

None of those players are the same caliber as Saquon Barkley. 

[esmort]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

 

So you believe if you take Bell away then it's still only a 3-point game?

 

LOL

 

You cherry pick your facts. 

 

I believe if you swap out Bell for Shazier there is no way the Jags score 45, and the Steelers still put up enough points to beat them. Letting the Bortles and the Jags score 45 is craziness.

[BlueShoe]

3 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

I believe if you swap out Bell for Shazier there is no way the Jags score 45, and the Steelers still put up enough points to beat them. Letting the Bortles and the Jags score 45 is craziness.

 

Without Bell, the Steelers do not score 42. 

 

And no 1 player on defense was going to make that big of a difference. The Steelers got their butt's handed to them twice. Sometimes a team just has another teams number. The Jags have the Steelers right where they want them.

[esmort]

7 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I disagree. 

 

None of those players are the same caliber as Saquon Barkley. 

 

They don't have to be exactly the same "caliber", they are highly rated/talented players and their positional value makes them realistic options ... Thinking teams don't take need and positional value into account and blindly take BPA (like they just go down the consensus top 50 list) is a not how it works regardless of how many people say BPA.

 

I say this as someone who doesn't want to take a player at #3, I am on the trade down band wagon  ... but I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that there isn't a very realistic chance of us drafting a player at #3 other than Barkley.

[NorthernBlue]

46 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I truncated your post to get to the root...

 

You can find a "serviceable" back in the later rounds. It has been done before. The Colts have had a problem succeeding at it though. I like Mack, but he is not an every down back. I see him as our change of pace dude. Contrary to popular belief, difference-makers form the running back position are not just falling off trees. 

 

But let's go deeper.... Even if we were guaranteed a "serviceable" back in the later rounds....

 

I don't want a "serviceable" back, especially when a GREAT back is available. 

 

It is not smart to pass on great talent. We are afforded the position we are in, because we had a terrible season and (most likely) do not need a quarterback. You don't pass on greatness when it is available. 

Ok then let me ask you this. Would you rather have a GREAT back and a serviceable Pass rush, or a serviceable back, and a Great pass rush? When Andrew Luck is your QB, I don't think that's a difficult question to answer. If you'd rather the great back, that's on you.

 

And regarding the colts struggles at finding late round running backs, I think it's important to remember that most of those recent failures were Grigson. Ballards our new and supposed really smart gm.

[esmort]

9 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Without Bell, the Steelers do not score 42. 

 

And no 1 player on defense was going to make that big of a difference. The Steelers got their butt's handed to them twice. Sometimes a team just has another teams number. The Jags have the Steelers right where they want them.

 

They wouldn't have needed to score 42 ... Shazier instead of Sean Spence from Indy's trash pile would have stopped a lot of the Jags junk plays; Sean Spence wasn't fast enough to get to the outside plays. It's hard to beat a a good team twice especially a playoff experienced team so I don't think the first win carries much weight in the second (definitely not as big as some of Tomlin's decisions shooting them in the foot).

[Rackeen305]

Russel Wilson can be had in the 3rd, and Tom Brady in the 6th round. The question is, Will anyone wait till the for mentioned rounds to Draft the for mentioned players? 

[dgambill]

11 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I randomly picked a year.

 

How about 2013... Let's look.

 

Yep. Every one of these running backs made it big in the NFL too. 

 

http://footballdungeon.com/draft-results/2013-nfl-draft-results/

 

37	2	Bengals	Giovani Bernard	RB	North Carolina	46
48	2	Steelers	Le'Veon Bell	RB	Michigan State	33
58	2	Broncos	Montee Ball	RB	Wisconsin	85
61	2	Packers	Eddie Lacy	RB	Alabama	27
62	2	Seahawks	Christine Michael	RB	Texas A&M	89
96	3	Chiefs	Knile Davis	RB	Arkansas	123
125	4	Packers	Johnathan Franklin	RB	UCLA	164
130	4	Ravens	Kyle Juszczyk	RB	Harvard	91
131	4	49ers	Marcus Lattimore	RB	South Carolina	228
140	5	Cardinals	Stepfan Taylor	RB	Stanford	174
151	5	Cowboys	Joseph Randle	RB	Oklahoma State	133
154	5	Redskins	Chris Thompson	RB	Florida State	190
160	5	Rams	Zac Stacy	RB	Vanderbilt	134
164	5	Dolphins	Mike Gillislee	RB	Florida	119
181	6	Raiders	Latavius Murray	RB	UCF	110
182	6	Panthers	Kenjon Barner	RB	Oregon	202
187	6	Cardinals	Andre Ellington	RB	Clemson	65
189	6	Buccaneers	Mike James	RB	Miami	214
190	6	Bengals	Rex Burkhead	RB	Nebraska	205
194	6	Seahawks	Spencer Ware	RB	LSU	112
199	6	Lions	Theo Riddick	RB	Notre Dame	129
215	7	Jets	Tommy Bohanon	RB	Wake Forest	218
228	7	Redskins	Jawan Jamison	RB	Rutgers	258
230	7	Colts	Kerwynn Williams	RB	Utah State	177
253	7	Giants	Michael Cox	RB	Massachusetts	295

 

We can do this all day.

Let's see...Theo Riddick has been an outstanding 3rd down back out of the backfield...6th rd value...that's awesome! Rex Burkhead has been productive too! Mike Gillislee has had a lot of run....Chris Thompson a great change of pace back for the Redskins this year...uh Latavius Murray was great with Oakland and then huge for Minnesota this year.....those are all 5th and 6th rd players that are productive! Eddie Lacey had 3 or 4 good years and the best back in that draft was Le'veon Bell in rd 2! So yeah...that list has a ton of production late in the draft and the best back in rd 2. Are you trying to say only good/productive backs are in Rd 1? Oh...and why leave off undrafted free agents? How about CJ Anderson who has become a perinneal 1000yd back!

12 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Doesn't matter where we pick a running back, eh?

 

Yeah, because every one of these running backs made it big in the NFL:

 

http://footballdungeon.com/draft-results/2016-nfl-draft-results/

 

4	1	Cowboys	Ezekiel Elliott	RB	Ohio State	2
45	2	Titans	Derrick Henry	RB	Alabama	48
73	3	Dolphins	Kenyan Drake	RB	Alabama	86
90	3	Seahawks	C.J. Prosise	RB	Notre Dame	70
119	4	Texans	Tyler Ervin	RB	San Jose State	182
134	4	Ravens	Kenneth Dixon	RB	Louisiana Tech	71
136	4	Broncos	Devontae Booker	RB	Utah	89
143	5	Raiders	DeAndre Washington	RB	Texas Tech	107
149	5	Giants	Paul Perkins	RB	UCLA	66
150	5	Bears	Jordan Howard	RB	Indiana	44
153	5	Eagles	Wendell Smallwood	RB	West Virginia	111
156	5	Bills	Jonathan Williams	RB	Arkansas	170
171	5	Seahawks	Alex Collins	RB	Arkansas	109
182	6	Ravens	Keenan Reynolds	RB	Navy	283
211	6	49ers	Kelvin Taylor	RB	Florida	225
216	6	Cowboys	Darius Jackson	RB	Eastern Michigan	272
236	7	Lions	Dwayne Washington	RB	Washington	184
237	7	Saints	Daniel Lasco	RB	California	249
242	7	Redskins	Keith Marshall	RB	Georgia	269
247	7	Seahawks	Zac Brooks	RB	Clemson	300

Let's see...Elliott is clearly a stud but Derrick Henry is poised to be the go to back in Tennessee and he ran awesome down the stretch. Jordan Howard in rd 5 has been a stud. Alex Collins was great for Baltimore this year and I'm sure Seattle is kicking themselves for letting him get away rd 5. Smallwood is a nice change of pace player for Philly but they are loaded at rb. Kenyan Drake didn't take over lead rusher job until after Ajayi was moved but he looked great in Miami rd 3. So between those two years if I'm actually targeting a rb I feel pretty confident even if I wait til RD5 that I can get someone that can come in and play right away and help my team...and even if I wait til rd 2 I may still have a shot at the best back in the draft. Your posts actually show that if you scout well you can find rb value all thru the draft...not just at the top.....I can do this all day. I'm not opposed to having a great rb...but the difference you get between the best back in the league and these other good backs is minimal. Maybe half a yard per carry....and I would say more rest on the OL and play calling then these backs in how productive they are. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat...I'm perfectly fine with a stable of "good" rbs...I don't have to have Emmitt Smith...especially how the league is played now.

[Indy Fan]

10 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

He said my opinion was ridiculous and I told him that his opinion was illogical.

 

Does it really matter?

 

Nope. 

 

In the end, Barkley is the best non-quarterback in the 2018 NFL Draft. And it's not even close. 

 

I think Darnold and Barkley are both generational players. We also have some other quarterbacks in this draft that could have Hall of Fame type careers. 

You think Sam Darnold is a generational player?

[Indy Fan]

11 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

He said my opinion was ridiculous and I told him that his opinion was illogical.

 

Does it really matter?

 

Nope. 

 

In the end, Barkley is the best non-quarterback in the 2018 NFL Draft. And it's not even close. 

 

I think Darnold and Barkley are both generational players. We also have some other quarterbacks in this draft that could have Hall of Fame type careers. 

Sorry, double post. Darn iPhone.

[dgambill]

10 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I disagree.

 

Look at the impact that great running backs have on their teams. 

 

Even as recent as Elliot. The Cowboys are contenders with him and pretenders without him.

 

The Jaguars almost made it to the Super Bowl! The Jaguars!

 

Great players make a difference on football teams. Stop fooling yourself into thinking that running backs do not apply to that rule. 

I think people will see what they want to see. I would say Sean Lee has more to do with their success then Elliott and I would say Jacksonville's defense has a whole heck of a lot more to do with the fact they got that far then Fournette. A great defense allows you the benefit to run the ball and not play from behind. Just to look at what Dallas was before Elliott came....they had a 3rd Rd running back by the name of Demarco Murray who simply rushed for over 1800 yds and 500 yds receiving....a better season then Elliott has ever given them. Elliott hasn't transformed the Cowboys....that OL transformed the Cowboys...so if you want a dominant running game how about we draft some lineman and see where that takes us. The Cowboys are not significantly better with Elliott over what they had with Murray....they are significantly better with Frederick, Martin, Cooper, Collins, and most importantly Tyron Smith. Everyone here wants to have a great running back...but in the scheme of building a football team we have some huge deficits at many positions and there are many that believe all positions are not equal on a football team. If we take Barkley then I will trust Ballards/McDaniels plan to fix the OL to make RB position a significant focus of this team...but viewing how most teams in the league are built...and specifically NE...I'm not holding my breath.

[Indy Fan]

9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think people will see what they want to see. I would say Sean Lee has more to do with their success then Elliott and I would say Jacksonville's defense has a whole heck of a lot more to do with the fact they got that far then Fournette. A great defense allows you the benefit to run the ball and not play from behind. Just to look at what Dallas was before Elliott came....they had a 3rd Rd running back by the name of Demarco Murray who simply rushed for over 1800 yds and 500 yds receiving....a better season then Elliott has ever given them. Elliott hasn't transformed the Cowboys....that OL transformed the Cowboys...so if you want a dominant running game how about we draft some lineman and see where that takes us. The Cowboys are not significantly better with Elliott over what they had with Murray....they are significantly better with Frederick, Martin, Cooper, Collins, and most importantly Tyron Smith. Everyone here wants to have a great running back...but in the scheme of building a football team we have some huge deficits at many positions and there are many that believe all positions are not equal on a football team. If we take Barkley then I will trust Ballards/McDaniels plan to fix the OL to make RB position a significant focus of this team...but viewing how most teams in the league are built...and specifically NE...I'm not holding my breath.

To further illustrate your point as Sean Lee is outstanding.

 

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2017/11/05/sean-lee-led-defense-bodes-cowboys-potential-life-without-ezekiel-elliott

[BlueShoe]

1 hour ago, Indy Fan said:

You think Sam Darnold is a generational player?

 

Yes. 

[BlueShoe]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

No one changing any minds here. 

 

Some of you will need to be heavily medicated if we stay at 3, because the pick is Barkley. 

 

If we do not trade out then I guarantee the pick is Barkley. He will be the pick, because he will be the best player available. 

 

 

[dgambill]

19 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

No one changing any minds here. 

 

Some of you will need to be heavily medicated if we stay at 3, because the pick is Barkley. 

 

If we do not trade out then I guarantee the pick is Barkley. He will be the pick, because he will be the best player available. 

 

 

What if he is taken at 2? Just being devils advocate...Giants could just as easily take him as we could or decide to trade the pick if they want to slide back for a qb. One thing I've learned in life...there are no guarantees....heck the guy could have his medical check and find he needs surgery or get busted for weed....lots of time between now and then. If this was before 2000...yes I would have agreed with you...but looking at Josh McDaniels offense I'm not sure Barkley will be that guy. Guess we just have to wait til april to find out. You could be right...but be careful of your mouth writing checks that your butt can't cash as the old sayin goes.

[BlueShoe]

5 hours ago, dgambill said:

What if he is taken at 2? Just being devils advocate...Giants could just as easily take him as we could or decide to trade the pick if they want to slide back for a qb. One thing I've learned in life...there are no guarantees....heck the guy could have his medical check and find he needs surgery or get busted for weed....lots of time between now and then. If this was before 2000...yes I would have agreed with you...but looking at Josh McDaniels offense I'm not sure Barkley will be that guy. Guess we just have to wait til april to find out. You could be right...but be careful of your mouth writing checks that your butt can't cash as the old sayin goes.

 

I have guaranteed 3 draft picks by the Colts in all my time as a Colts fan. (everybody knew we were taking Luck).

 

The first was Marshall Faulk. The second was Peyton Manning. The third is Saquon Barkley. Granted, Barkley has to still be there, and we have to use the pick. I would not fault Ballard for taking a deal and moving back.

 

The Giants could take Barkley at No.2. I said that was a possibility earlier in this thread.

 

If the Giants take Barkley then we will trade No. 3 overall for a Kings ransom. 

[thatonefan]

13 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I randomly picked a year.

 

How about 2013... Let's look.

 

Yep. Every one of these running backs made it big in the NFL too. 

 

http://footballdungeon.com/draft-results/2013-nfl-draft-results/

 

37	2	Bengals	Giovani Bernard	RB	North Carolina	46
48	2	Steelers	Le'Veon Bell	RB	Michigan State	33
58	2	Broncos	Montee Ball	RB	Wisconsin	85
61	2	Packers	Eddie Lacy	RB	Alabama	27
62	2	Seahawks	Christine Michael	RB	Texas A&M	89
96	3	Chiefs	Knile Davis	RB	Arkansas	123
125	4	Packers	Johnathan Franklin	RB	UCLA	164
130	4	Ravens	Kyle Juszczyk	RB	Harvard	91
131	4	49ers	Marcus Lattimore	RB	South Carolina	228
140	5	Cardinals	Stepfan Taylor	RB	Stanford	174
151	5	Cowboys	Joseph Randle	RB	Oklahoma State	133
154	5	Redskins	Chris Thompson	RB	Florida State	190
160	5	Rams	Zac Stacy	RB	Vanderbilt	134
164	5	Dolphins	Mike Gillislee	RB	Florida	119
181	6	Raiders	Latavius Murray	RB	UCF	110
182	6	Panthers	Kenjon Barner	RB	Oregon	202
187	6	Cardinals	Andre Ellington	RB	Clemson	65
189	6	Buccaneers	Mike James	RB	Miami	214
190	6	Bengals	Rex Burkhead	RB	Nebraska	205
194	6	Seahawks	Spencer Ware	RB	LSU	112
199	6	Lions	Theo Riddick	RB	Notre Dame	129
215	7	Jets	Tommy Bohanon	RB	Wake Forest	218
228	7	Redskins	Jawan Jamison	RB	Rutgers	258
230	7	Colts	Kerwynn Williams	RB	Utah State	177
253	7	Giants	Michael Cox	RB	Massachusetts	295

 

We can do this all day.

I'll take Running Back Draft Classes for $500, Alex.

[dgambill]

14 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I have guaranteed 3 draft picks by the Colts in all my time as a Colts fan. 

 

The first was Marshall Faulk. The second was Peyton Manning. The third is Saquon Barkley. Granted, Barkley has to still be there, and we have to use the pick. I would not fault Ballard for taking a deal and moving back.

 

The Giants could take Barkley at No.2. I said that was a possibility earlier in this thread.

 

If the Giants take Barkley then we will trade No. 3 overall for a Kings ransom. 

Ok. We shall see. What will happen if he isn't taken...will that mean Ballard screwed up or you? We all have favorites in these drafts every year but few make guarantees. Perhaps there is some here willing to do an avatar/signature wager. Perhaps in the sig they can say you were right...or you can have...yes I was wrong on Barkley...at least make this interesting lol.

[throwing BBZ]

12 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Without Bell, the Steelers do not score 42. 

 

And no 1 player on defense was going to make that big of a difference. The Steelers got their butt's handed to them twice. Sometimes a team just has another teams number. The Jags have the Steelers right where they want them.

 

 Antonio Morrison makes that big of a difference.  

[DaColts85]

35 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I have guaranteed 3 draft picks by the Colts in all my time as a Colts fan. 

 

The first was Marshall Faulk. The second was Peyton Manning. The third is Saquon Barkley. Granted, Barkley has to still be there, and we have to use the pick. I would not fault Ballard for taking a deal and moving back.

 

The Giants could take Barkley at No.2. I said that was a possibility earlier in this thread.

 

If the Giants take Barkley then we will trade No. 3 overall for a Kings ransom. 

Wow you couldn't predict or guarantee Luck in 2012 huh?  I would question your guarantee for this year then.

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

We can all say "what if" until we are blue in the face. What if Barkley is the 2nd coming of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders? What if Chubb is the next Bruce Smith? What if Fitzpatrick is the next Ronnie Lott. We can go on and on. Every year there are "can't miss" guys that somehow don't pan out and picks that everyone scratches their head on that change the course of a franchise. The draft is a crapshoot. No one thought Tom Brady would be Tom Brady when he was drafted. There are too many factors that can make or break a player. Personally, I think Chubb should be the pick, but I'm going to trust our owner, GM, scouts, and coaching staff to make the best decision for the team.