Connor Williams Is Exactly What We Need.

[stitches]

11 hours ago, MPStack said:

He`s not an every-down back. The Colts would be wise to invest in another back in the offseason. However, to many pressing to go round #1 for an RB. I honestly thought the O-line would be a strength this year, but it`s worse than last season. Has to be a top priority come draft day.

 

Nick Chubb seems like a lead back and probably could be had on day 2. He's looked very good this year. 

[bananabucket]

On 10/29/2017 at 12:50 PM, stitches said:

Nick Chubb seems like a lead back and probably could be had on day 2. He's looked very good this year. 

 

Day 2 could be loaded with good compliments to Mack.  Chubb definitely stands out, and I also like Damien Harris and Royce Freeman.

 

 

[DaColts85]

15 hours ago, bananabucket said:

 

Day 2 could be loaded with good compliments to Mack.  Chubb definitely stands out, and I also like Damien Harris and Royce Freeman.

 

 

The RB class is loaded for sure.  Sony Michel and Josh Adams are others.

[BProland85]

17 hours ago, bananabucket said:

 

Day 2 could be loaded with good compliments to Mack.  Chubb definitely stands out, and I also like Damien Harris and Royce Freeman.

 

 

 

I really like Royce Freeman. Reminds me of Kareem Hunt but possibly even better. Would love getting Freeman in the 3rd to pair with Mack for the future at RB. 

[IndyScribe]

If Barkley is gone by the time we draft, or we decide to take defense instead, I wouldn't mind Freeman or Sony Michel in the later rounds. 

[Defjamz26]

Stock is way down on Williams apparently. He’s dropping on boards because he started off the season struggling against Maryland and now scout are saying he lacks strength. He’s looking like a round 3 prospect at the moment. Could be a steal for the Colts.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Stock is way down on Williams apparently. He’s dropping on boards because he started off the season struggling against Maryland and now scout are saying he lacks strength. He’s looking like a round 3 prospect at the moment. Could be a steal for the Colts.

Like 2nd rounder now? Dont see how he can be a 3rd.

[Defjamz26]

30 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Like 2nd rounder now? Dont see how he can be a 3rd.

Injury concerns and a lack of strength could drop him that far. This isn’t a great draft for OTs anyways. 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, Defjamz26 said:

Injury concerns and a lack of strength could drop him that far. This isn’t a great draft for OTs anyways. 

But this dude was being called a top pick don't think some struggling would make him fall to the 3rd 

[Defjamz26]

18 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

But this dude was being called a top pick don't think some struggling would make him fall to the 3rd 

It happens all the time. Not to mention there’s always a bit of sensationalism after a breakout season. Look at Cameron Smith for example. Hyped as a 1st round linebacker after a breakout season last year and now he’s slated to go between rounds 2-4. A lot of times it’s because these guys aren’t put under the microscope until people think they’re going to come out. Then that’s when scouts start dissecting them and realizing they’re flaws. Williams is still good but multiple scouts say that even in practice his strength is a problem.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

CW will not drop to the 3rd round lol. If he doesn’t play great the rest of this season, and his arms measure short at the combine, he could fall to the 2nd. But that’s it. He can be a pro bowl T or G. 

[NewColtsFan]

29 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

It happens all the time. Not to mention there’s always a bit of sensationalism after a breakout season. Look at Cameron Smith for example. Hyped as a 1st round linebacker after a breakout season last year and now he’s slated to go between rounds 2-4. A lot of times it’s because these guys aren’t put under the microscope until people think they’re going to come out. Then that’s when scouts start dissecting them and realizing they’re flaws. Williams is still good but multiple scouts say that even in practice his strength is a problem.

 

I'm not sure how Williams' strength in practice has been an issue.

 

He hasn't practiced or played since, I think,  week 3.     We're now at roughly week 10 or so.

 

His knee injury has kept him on the sidelines.     So, any scouts comments are very dated.    Assuming he comes out,  and I'm guessing he will,   his Jan thru April run-up to the draft will be criticial.

 

[DaColts85]

He is expected to play this Saturday so a lot of scouts are waiting for the ability to watch him more.  How can he bounce back?  I have seen scouting reports saying he is weaker than they would want but that will not drop him to the 3rd round.  Maybe the second but the NFL is thriving for talented offensive linemen so they will drafted early.

[ponyboy]

This article from walterfootball.com claims some teams have late-third to fourth round grades on him.   The article is from early November.  I'm sure that's where some of the 3rd round talk is coming from.

[DaColts85]

8 minutes ago, ponyboy said:

This article from walterfootball.com claims some teams have late-third to fourth round grades on him.   The article is from early November.  I'm sure that's where some of the 3rd round talk is coming from.

I will say I am 50/50 on Walter Football but regardless I have heard 3rd round now as well.  He has 2 possibly 3 (bowl game maybe?) to help his case for the draft before the process starts.  If he comes back and struggles my guess is he comes back to Texas for a better year.

[Defjamz26]

18 minutes ago, ponyboy said:

This article from walterfootball.com claims some teams have late-third to fourth round grades on him.   The article is from early November.  I'm sure that's where some of the 3rd round talk is coming from.

Yes that was the article I was referencing. The article wasn’t originally from Walter Football though. Their mock drafts aren’t usually great but they’re prospect rankings and rumors are usually on the money and align with what guys like Matt Miller, Zerlein, and Kiper say. 

 

9 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I will say I am 50/50 on Walter Football but regardless I have heard 3rd round now as well.  He has 2 possibly 3 (bowl game maybe?) to help his case for the draft before the process starts.  If he comes back and struggles my guess is he comes back to Texas for a better year.

Going back is an option. But he may choose to bet on himself knowing this is a weak OT class. Getting stronger is something an NFL Strength and conditioning coach could help him with.

[DaColts85]

47 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

Going back is an option. But he may choose to bet on himself knowing this is a weak OT class. Getting stronger is something an NFL Strength and conditioning coach could help him with.

Oh I do not disagree at all.  He could easily still come out.  If he has someone talking to him and letting him know the money difference if he goes back then that could help him make that judgment call.  If the hype is real then he will be talked about all next year just like he was to start this year.  I also would not say this is a weak class at all and next year will be very similar.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yes that was the article I was referencing. The article wasn’t originally from Walter Football though. Their mock drafts aren’t usually great but they’re prospect rankings and rumors are usually on the money and align with what guys like Matt Miller, Zerlein, and Kiper say. 

 

Going back is an option. But he may choose to bet on himself knowing this is a weak OT class. Getting stronger is something an NFL Strength and conditioning coach could help him with.

 

I'm not reading weak OT class anywhere -- that was definitely last years.

 

I'd call this years class roughly average...

but I'll reserve final judgement to see who comes out and who returns to school.

 

That said...

 

It's hard to see Williams falling any lower than the 2nd round at worst.    Remember more and more teams are willing to teach on the NFL level as long as the player has the tools.

 

 

[Defjamz26]

25 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not reading weak OT class anywhere -- that was definitely last years.

 

I'd call this years class roughly average...

but I'll reserve final judgement to see who comes out and who returns to school.

 

That said...

 

It's hard to see Williams falling any lower than the 2nd round at worst.    Remember more and more teams are willing to teach on the NFL level as long as the player has the tools.

 

 

There isn’t really anyone after McGlinchey. Maybe Brown for Oklahoma, but he has issues bending. This class will at least legitimately have a top LT prospect.

[DaColts85]

7 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

There isn’t really anyone after McGlinchey. Maybe Brown for Oklahoma, but he has issues bending. This class will at least legitimately have a top LT prospect.

See, this is the fun of talking about everything so early.  There are guys that you are not even thinking about right now that will jump up draft boards.  Not a personal shot at you, because there are a lot of names I do not know either, I just mean in general.  My guess is within the 1st round you will see 3 maybe 4 OT and at least 1 maybe 2 OG drafted.  In the 2nd and 3rd round you will probably see a large focus on the linemen.  This is just my opinion but the league is hurting for linemen and almost every team needs some quality and depth.

[Hoose]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not reading weak OT class anywhere -- that was definitely last years.

 

I'd call this years class roughly average...

but I'll reserve final judgement to see who comes out and who returns to school.

 

That said...

 

It's hard to see Williams falling any lower than the 2nd round at worst.    Remember more and more teams are willing to teach on the NFL level as long as the player has the tools.

 

 

Such as.... La'Raven Clark?

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Hoose said:

Such as.... La'Raven Clark?

 

I'm not sure what your point is.

 

First,  not everyone pans out.    The personnel business is hard.

 

But second,  Clark showed a lot in his 3 starts at the end of last year.     What happened this year,  I have no idea.

 

But I'm not ready to give up on the kid.      Way too many elite tools to give up this soon.     I hate giving up on young players too early.     Would rather keep trying a year too long to be sure one way or the other.

 

[Defjamz26]

21 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not sure what your point is.

 

First,  not everyone pans out.    The personnel business is hard.

 

But second,  Clark showed a lot in his 3 starts at the end of last year.     What happened this year,  I have no idea.

 

But I'm not ready to give up on the kid.      Way too many elite tools to give up this soon.     I hate giving up on young players too early.     Would rather keep trying a year too long to be sure one way or the other.

 

I think what he meant was Clark fell to the 3rd round despite having all the “tools”. And like Williams he was a guy being heralded early on as a 1st round pick. The lowest you saw him in mocks was 2nd round but he went lower than that. So I’m guessing he’s saying that Williams is similar in that he could drop lower than expected like Clark did.

[DaColts85]

19 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I think what he meant was Clark fell to the 3rd round despite having all the “tools”. And like Williams he was a guy being heralded early on as a 1st round pick. The lowest you saw him in mocks was 2nd round but he went lower than that. So I’m guessing he’s saying that Williams is similar in that he could drop lower than expected like Clark did.

If Williams does drop I would look at him for sure in the 3rd if we have not drafted an OT yet.  He has some good skill and technique and can get stronger once he is paid to be in a weight room.  He has more technique than Clark did and does still.

[Defjamz26]

53 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

If Williams does drop I would look at him for sure in the 3rd if we have not drafted an OT yet.  He has some good skill and technique and can get stronger once he is paid to be in a weight room.  He has more technique than Clark did and does still.

Clark is a weird case. I think he’s TJ Green. Great measureables but no technique. With Texas Tech being known for running an offensive scheme that is the furthest thing from an NFL system, I think it makes people give OTs from there the benefit of the doubt. People assumed his technique would be raw because of the scheme they ran. No one considered that maybe he was a low ceiling player anyways, and scheme didn’t matter.

[DaColts85]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Clark is a weird case. I think he’s TJ Green. Great measureables but no technique. With Texas Tech being known for running an offensive scheme that is the furthest thing from an NFL system, I think it makes people give OTs from there the benefit of the doubt. People assumed his technique would be raw because of the scheme they ran. No one considered that maybe he was a low ceiling player anyways, and scheme didn’t matter.

Completely agree!

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 9/21/2017 at 1:02 AM, MPStack said:

OT without a doubt is now the Colts biggest need. I`ve said before and will say it again, AC is a RT playing LT. He has regressed each of the past two seasons as well. 

 

Every bit of data regarding Costanzo from this year says the exact opposite.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I think what he meant was Clark fell to the 3rd round despite having all the “tools”. And like Williams he was a guy being heralded early on as a 1st round pick. The lowest you saw him in mocks was 2nd round but he went lower than that. So I’m guessing he’s saying that Williams is similar in that he could drop lower than expected like Clark did.

 

Apoligies up front...   this will be a long response...   much to say...

 

I don't think Clark has EVER been thought of as being like Williams.    I think that's a terrible comp.   

 

Players fall in the draft every year, it's not uncommon,

 

Williams has been a first round projection for nearly two years.   He may or may not fall to the second.    And yes,  I saw the chatter on Walter Football about third or fourth rounder...    I'll believe that when I see that you..   But if he falls to the second it's mostly because of his injury and that he hasn't played much this year.

 

Clark was mostly a second round projection who fell to the third because (A) it was a deep draft class for lineman (that's why we took four) and (B) Texas Tech, the school where Clark came from, runs a type of offense that doesn't prepare a lineman for the NFL very well.   I believe Clark started for roughly four years (about 50 games) and he was still viewed as not ready to start and in need of a redshirt year.

 

When Clark was drafted I posted the rankings from five evaluators..   Kiper, McShay,  Jeremiah, and two others...   all had him in the second or third round... people here HATED the Green and Clark picks and I was trying to show they were picked roughly where they were supposed to go.

 

Again...  sorry this post was so long...

 

 

[stitches]

11 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Every bit of data regarding Costanzo from this year says the exact opposite.

Castonzo is having a great year. He had troubles with Chandler Jones, but other than that he's been playing really well. (also, just look at the year Jones is having... he's whooping pretty much everybody's butt this year). 

 

I mentioned it in the other thread - AC is currently the 5th ranked OT in the league by PFF and he's allowed just 11 pressures in the last 8 games. THis is tremendous. This is pro-bowl stuff... especially when you consider what's going on around him with the rest of the O-line. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Castonzo is having a great year. He had troubles with Chandler Jones, but other than that he's been playing really well. (also, just look at the year Jones is having... he's whooping pretty much everybody's butt this year). 

 

I mentioned it in the other thread - AC is currently the 5th ranked OT in the league by PFF and he's allowed just 11 pressures in the last 8 games. THis is tremendous. This is pro-bowl stuff... especially when you consider what's going on around him with the rest of the O-line. 

Is this the same Castonzo that just last week was a bum and needed to be traded? 

I guess it just shows some don't know as much as they think they do.

[stitches]

4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Is this the same Castonzo that just last week was a bum and needed to be traded? 

I guess it just shows some don't know as much as they think they do.

I can tell you what's happening. Regular fans don't watch the details but they see the big picture.

 

Regular fans don't know who's starting next to Castonzo but they know Castonzo is starting. 0

 

The details are that Castonzo and Kelly are the only ones performing at any level resembling starters in the league. The big picture is - our O-line as a group is trash and giving up #ton of pressures and sacks and QB hits.And when the regular fan knows only one name in the unit they blame him for all the troubles of the whole line, whether he is to blame or not. Castonzo is not perfect by any means. He's still better run blocker than pass-protector, but he's a damn good tackle. The chance that you will get better performance from a rookie than what Castonzo is giving you now is not great. The chance that you will get better player in the long run than Castonzo in the draft is not great either. Fans should stop blaming our best(and as it happens most recognizable) players for the problems of this team. There are about 15 spots on the roster that require much more urgent addressing than the LT position.

 

It's the same exact issue with TY. Fans don't watch how many times he gets open but the QB either doesn't have the time to throw the pass or simply doesn't see him. They don't realize that the very type of player TY is(relying on lower success-rate throws that on the other hand gain chunk yardage) lends itself to high variance results. Stop trashing our best players and wanting them out of the team. None of them are perfect. Julio Jones and AJ Green are not perfect either. Lets replace the truly trash players first. The path to making a good team is not to throw away every good player you have because he's not the absolutely undisputed best man at his position in the league. 

[DaColts85]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

I can tell you what's happening. Regular fans don't watch the details but they see the big picture.

 

Regular fans don't know who's starting next to Castonzo but they know Castonzo is starting. 0

 

The details are that Castonzo and Kelly are the only ones performing at any level resembling starters in the league. The big picture is - our O-line as a group is trash and giving up #ton of pressures and sacks and QB hits.And when the regular fan knows only one name in the unit they blame him for all the troubles of the whole line, whether he is to blame or not. Castonzo is not perfect by any means. He's still better run blocker than pass-protector, but he's a damn good tackle. The chance that you will get better performance from a rookie than what Castonzo is giving you now is not great. The chance that you will get better player in the long run than Castonzo in the draft is not great either. Fans should stop blaming our best(and as it happens most recognizable) players for the problems of this team. There are about 15 spots on the roster that require much more urgent addressing than the LT position.

 

It's the same exact issue with TY. Fans don't watch how many times he gets open but the QB either doesn't have the time to throw the pass or simply doesn't see him. They don't realize that the very type of player TY is(relying on lower success-rate throws that on the other hand gain chunk yardage) lends itself to high variance results. Stop trashing our best players and wanting them out of the team. None of them are perfect. Julio Jones and AJ Green are not perfect either. Lets replace the truly trash players first. The path to making a good team is not to throw away every good player you have because he's not the absolutely undisputed best man at his position in the league. 

Thank you!  I am glad I am not the only one who can clearly see that Castonzo is pretty darn good as a LT and for our line.  All this garbage from people saying he sucks, and we could do better without him.  Laughable! 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

Thank you!  I am glad I am not the only one who can clearly see that Castonzo is pretty darn good as a LT and for our line.  All this garbage from people saying he sucks, and we could do better without him.  Laughable! 

 

#8 overall tackle, 82.7 grade overall per PFF so far this season. We should honestly be thanking our lucky stars that it's not a contract year for him.

[DaColts85]

14 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

#8 overall tackle, 82.7 grade overall per PFF so far this season. We should honestly be thanking our lucky stars that it's not a contract year for him.

We should thanking our lucky stars he has been a pillar for our line since being drafted.  Any player can have some ups and downs but this guy is still the best we have period.  

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Just now, DaColts85 said:

We should thanking our lucky stars he has been a pillar for our line since being drafted.  Any player can have some ups and downs but this guy is still the best we have period.  

 

100% agree. It's easy to bag on him, because when he makes a mistake it's obvious because it's so disastrous. But remove Castonzo from the equation, THEN we'll see what bad looks like when some random UDFA is out there trying to block Jadeveon Clowney.

[stitches]

10 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

100% agree. It's easy to bag on him, because when he makes a mistake it's obvious because it's so disastrous. But remove Castonzo from the equation, THEN we'll see what bad looks like when some random UDFA is out there trying to block Jadeveon Clowney.

And he practically never misses a game. This is underrated aspect of what AC gives to this team. 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

And he practically never misses a game. This is underrated aspect of what AC gives to this team. 

Not only that the dude has some killer hair.

[Defjamz26]

On 11/15/2017 at 1:44 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Apoligies up front...   this will be a long response...   much to say...

 

I don't think Clark has EVER been thought of as being like Williams.    I think that's a terrible comp.   

 

Players fall in the draft every year, it's not uncommon,

 

Williams has been a first round projection for nearly two years.   He may or may not fall to the second.    And yes,  I saw the chatter on Walter Football about third or fourth rounder...    I'll believe that when I see that you..   But if he falls to the second it's mostly because of his injury and that he hasn't played much this year.

 

Clark was mostly a second round projection who fell to the third because (A) it was a deep draft class for lineman (that's why we took four) and (B) Texas Tech, the school where Clark came from, runs a type of offense that doesn't prepare a lineman for the NFL very well.   I believe Clark started for roughly four years (about 50 games) and he was still viewed as not ready to start and in need of a redshirt year.

 

When Clark was drafted I posted the rankings from five evaluators..   Kiper, McShay,  Jeremiah, and two others...   all had him in the second or third round... people here HATED the Green and Clark picks and I was trying to show they were picked roughly where they were supposed to go.

 

Again...  sorry this post was so long...

 

 

No need for apologies. Yes, I understand that Clark was and still is more raw coming out then Williams. But if there are legitimate concerns about his strength, that could hurt him. That’s the problem we have currently with Haeg. Haeg has like zero strength. But who knows. Williams on tape looks nasty in the run game. But I guess scouts are questioning his strength to hold up against pass rushers. Maybe 2nd-3rd round is where Williams might actually go. Like I said, in the little action he saw before injury, he looked rough and he was only playing Maryland. 

 

Its not like this is uncommon. Every year we see guys who broke out the previous  year, or are expected to have breakout years slated high in the next draft. Then the season rolls out and all of a sudden certain guys start falling. In reality it’s not falling, but guys going where they actually should go. In July names like Jerome Baker, Denzel Ward, Malik Jefferson, Cameron Smith, and Iman Marshall were common 1st round projected players. Now they’re all slated in rounds 2-3. Maybe Williams is in that category. Maybe he was projected too high based on an impressive 2016 that put him on the map but 2nd-3rd rounds are right where he should go. Or Maybe he is a bonafied 1st rounder.

 

Sorry to answer your post with an equally as long post. Just throwing some perspective out there. I could be completely misreading this, but we won’t know till May.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

No need for apologies. Yes, I understand that Clark was and still is more raw coming out then Williams. But if there are legitimate concerns about his strength, that could hurt him. That’s the problem we have currently with Haeg. Haeg has like zero strength. But who knows. Williams on tape looks nasty in the run game. But I guess scouts are questioning his strength to hold up against pass rushers. Maybe 2nd-3rd round is where Williams might actually go. Like I said, in the little action he saw before injury, he looked rough and he was only playing Maryland. 

 

Its not like this is uncommon. Every year we see guys who broke out the previous  year, or are expected to have breakout years slated high in the next draft. Then the season rolls out and all of a sudden certain guys start falling. In reality it’s not falling, but guys going where they actually should go. In July names like Jerome Baker, Denzel Ward, Malik Jefferson, Cameron Smith, and Iman Marshall were common 1st round projected players. Now they’re all slated in rounds 2-3. Maybe Williams is in that category. Maybe he was projected too high based on an impressive 2016 that put him on the map but 2nd-3rd rounds are right where he should go. Or Maybe he is a bonafied 1st rounder.

 

Sorry to answer your post with an equally as long post. Just throwing some perspective out there. I could be completely misreading this, but we won’t know till May.

 

Good post.     Really good.     One of your best.    
 

Thanks.      As to yur last sentence that I put into bold,  I'd say this....    I think we will all have a much better feel for Williams after the combine and his Pro Day.     Once we have a feel for how he tests,  including strength numbers and how he measures out,   I think we will have a better idea as to where he might be drafted.

 

Oh,  as to hiis strength.....    remember,  that can be coached up.     You can get stronger.    So a team with a good strength program can make that player stronger.    Some things can't be made better,  but strength can be....

 

[stitches]

https://247sports.com/college/texas/Article/Question-of-the-Week-How-will-Texas-Longhorns-LT-Connor-Williams-return-impact-UTs-offense-110513063

 

Connor Williams is supposed to be coming back this week vs West Virginia. Will be interesting to see if he stabilizes that O-line.