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No one is talking about Brady for MVP


Snowglobe

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I read another interesting article that sheds light on just how poorly the Patriots offensive line has been playing in the 2nd half of the season. Its funny, when you go to the Colts message board, you would think that Brady has a line of impenetrable tanks in front of him at all times, but its simply not true.

The Jaguars, who are one of the worst teams in the league at generating pressure, were able to put pressure on Brady 48% of the snaps and only blitzed 11% of the time... That is HORRENDOUS offensive line play, but whenever you come to this board, everyone says how any scrub QB could sit behind Brady's line and complete passes. The offensive line has been hurt and inconsistent all year long, but Brady is still leading the 2nd highest scoring offense in history.

Not bad, not bad at all.

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I read another interesting article that sheds light on just how poorly the Patriots offensive line has been playing in the 2nd half of the season. Its funny, when you go to the Colts message board, you would think that Brady has a line of impenetrable tanks in front of him at all times, but its simply not true.

The Jaguars, who are one of the worst teams in the league at generating pressure, were able to put pressure on Brady 48% of the snaps and only blitzed 11% of the time... That is HORRENDOUS offensive line play, but whenever you come to this board, everyone says how any scrub QB could sit behind Brady's line and complete passes. The offensive line has been hurt and inconsistent all year long, but Brady is still leading the 2nd highest scoring offense in history.

Not bad, not bad at all.

 

But then, you have Brady lighting up the 49ers in the second half with ample time. Inconsistent more than bad, IMO, agree on the inconsistent.

 

Horrendous is not a word I would accept when I see that O-line. Horrendous by their mighty lofty standards of the past that Pats fans are pampered with, I can buy that a tad bit but not horrendous enough to cost their offense lots of points.

 

If we give you that, you have to give us the fact that Peyton played behind a terrible O-line from 2007 and onwards that were bailed out due to Peyton's quick release resulting in low sack numbers and could not run if their lives depended on it, and still took them to a SB. Then, we Colts fans can call it even!!! :) :)

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Another record that could be broken this year by the Patriots, and just further supports how important Brady is to this team and how much command of the offense he has.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323984704578205562415246392.html

Part of the article

In the time it takes to read this sentence the New England Patriots could run two plays. That's an exaggeration. But the pace of Patriot play running this season is so furious that they're on the verge of breaking an NFL record.

The Patriots have run 1,116 plays this season, and if they run 84 in Sunday's game against the Miami Dolphins they will break the record for most plays from scrimmage in a season, a record currently held by the 1994 Patriots.

Setting a record is no sure thing. The Patriots have averaged 74.4 plays per game this season. But they've run as many as 92 plays in a game.

No other team has come close to their pace in 2012. They've run 102 more plays than the Denver Broncos—more than a full game's worth—and 214 more than the San Francisco 49ers.

This isn't some random statistic. New England has built an entire offense around one tactic: Not wasting time. Players hustle back back to the line of scrimmage. As soon as the team is set, quarterback Tom Brady calls for the snap. "I get on the line and do what he tells me to do," said Patriots tackle Nate Solder. "I have no idea how he does it."

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The Pats are BB's team, not Brady's.  Peyton talks strategy with BB at the pro bowl and not with Tom Brady (when he goes).  BB won't say it, but he would love to have Peyton as his QB.  No telling what formations they would concoct together.  But he is stuck with a barely above average QB who just happens to be a robot.  He doesn't mind doing the minute boring stuff over and over again.  That is why he is considered a system QB.  "Tom, throw a 3 yard curl to the left.....Tom, throw a 2 yard out to the right....Rinse and repeat.    Manning wouldn't be caught dead in an offense like that and neither would most of the greats.  Back when the Pats had a great defense, it didn't matter because their defense could stop anyone and all they needed was Brady to get them to field goal territory for Vinateri to win it.  Those days are long gone and the Pats don't win Super Bowls anymore.  Last time I checked (Colts vs Saints) losing a Super Bowl doesn't count.  Pats fans are pulling a Cowgirl.  That's when you don't win a SB for a long time, so you are forced to bring up the rings from a decade ago or even longer.  Well, the Colts won 3 championships pre Super Bowl era back when we were the greatest football team in the land with the greatest QB (Unitas).    I guess we can add those "old glory days" to the topic, too.   

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But then, you have Brady lighting up the 49ers in the second half with ample time. Inconsistent more than bad, IMO, agree on the inconsistent.

 

Horrendous is not a word I would accept when I see that O-line. Horrendous by their mighty lofty standards of the past that Pats fans are pampered with, I can buy that a tad bit but not horrendous enough to cost their offense lots of points.

 

If we give you that, you have to give us the fact that Peyton played behind a terrible O-line from 2007 and onwards that were bailed out due to Peyton's quick release resulting in low sack numbers and could not run if their lives depended on it, and still took them to a SB. Then, we Colts fans can call it even!!! :) :)

Some talk about Denver having a great OL. I would say it's better than what Indy has in place right now, but it's not an elite group. In 2011 they gave up 42 sacks with Orton/Tebow behind them.  This year they have given up half that with a game to go. The only change has been Koppen replacing Walton, and if he was the reason for the sudden change in the drop in sack totals, the Patriots would have never let him go. Now don't get me wrong, his availability and signing has been key to the Broncos not missing their starting Center so much, and his veteran presence with Manning is better in my opinion than whoever else would have replaced Walton to start with, but Manning's decision making and release is the main reason those sack #'s have dropped and that OL is now deemed "Great", by many observers here and elsewhere. 

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Some talk about Denver having a great OL. I would say it's better than what Indy has in place right now, but it's not an elite group. In 2011 they gave up 42 sacks with Orton/Tebow behind them.  This year they have given up half that with a game to go. The only change has been Koppen replacing Walton, and if he was the reason for the sudden change in the drop in sack totals, the Patriots would have never let him go. Now don't get me wrong, his availability and signing has been key to the Broncos not missing their starting Center so much, and his veteran presence with Manning is better in my opinion than whoever else would have replaced Walton to start with, but Manning's decision making and release is the main reason those sack #'s have dropped and that OL is now deemed "Great", by many observers here and elsewhere. 

There it is..

Broncos offensive line was no good until Manning came along! Hes just so fast, they don't even need to have the offensive line take the field!

Im sure Tim Tebow, a "Oh no, better run for my life" Quarterback im sure had a lot to do with those sack numbers being as high as they were. All running quarterbacks tend to have higher sack numbers. Add to that the fact that Tebow is an awful QB who held onto the ball forever, and there you have it. Yes Manning is good at reads and gets it out faster, so does Brady, Brees, Rodgers and a bunch of other QBs. This is not a special skillset known only to Manning.

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There it is..

Broncos offensive line was no good until Manning came along! Hes just so fast, they don't even need to have the offensive line take the field!

Im sure Tim Tebow, a "Oh no, better run for my life" Quarterback im sure had a lot to do with those sack numbers being as high as they were. All running quarterbacks tend to have higher sack numbers. Add to that the fact that Tebow is an awful QB who held onto the ball forever, and there you have it. Yes Manning is good at reads and gets it out faster, so does Brady, Brees, Rodgers and a bunch of other QBs. This is not a special skillset known only to Manning.

 

Who is more decisive in the pocket? Mallet or Brady?  The same 5 guys would look better with Brady behind them than Mallet.  

 

You guys need to get over yourself diminishing anything and everything Manning has done, does, or will do. 

 

Oh you are right.. There it is... a perfect example. A perfect example of someone putting Manning down every chance they get. 

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Im sure Tim Tebow, a "Oh no, better run for my life" Quarterback im sure had a lot to do with those sack numbers being as high as they were. All running quarterbacks tend to have higher sack numbers. Add to that the fact that Tebow is an awful QB who held onto the ball forever, and there you have it.

And even with all that, they still won the AFC West and a playoff game...lol

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Just wondering if there any 2013 Hate All Things Manning Fan Club Calenders left?  I hate I missed the meeting.

 

 

haha   Not Here.   He was on the Cover of our Family Calendar this year.   My son thought it was Great. ;)

 

 

Oh I found one. Not sure which member, or executive board member sent it to me, but thank you so much founding members.. 

 

hatemanning.jpg

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The Pats are BB's team, not Brady's.  Peyton talks strategy with BB at the pro bowl and not with Tom Brady (when he goes).  BB won't say it, but he would love to have Peyton as his QB.  No telling what formations they would concoct together.  But he is stuck with a barely above average QB who just happens to be a robot.  He doesn't mind doing the minute boring stuff over and over again.  That is why he is considered a system QB.  "Tom, throw a 3 yard curl to the left.....Tom, throw a 2 yard out to the right....Rinse and repeat.    Manning wouldn't be caught dead in an offense like that and neither would most of the greats.  Back when the Pats had a great defense, it didn't matter because their defense could stop anyone and all they needed was Brady to get them to field goal territory for Vinateri to win it.  Those days are long gone and the Pats don't win Super Bowls anymore.  Last time I checked (Colts vs Saints) losing a Super Bowl doesn't count.  Pats fans are pulling a Cowgirl.  That's when you don't win a SB for a long time, so you are forced to bring up the rings from a decade ago or even longer.  Well, the Colts won 3 championships pre Super Bowl era back when we were the greatest football team in the land with the greatest QB (Unitas).    I guess we can add those "old glory days" to the topic, too.   

 

Oh wow.......

 

:facepalm:

 

:hmm:

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I read another interesting article that sheds light on just how poorly the Patriots offensive line has been playing in the 2nd half of the season. Its funny, when you go to the Colts message board, you would think that Brady has a line of impenetrable tanks in front of him at all times, but its simply not true.

The Jaguars, who are one of the worst teams in the league at generating pressure, were able to put pressure on Brady 48% of the snaps and only blitzed 11% of the time... That is HORRENDOUS offensive line play...

 

So they had one lackluster game and suddenly the Pats have an O-line as bad as, say, ours?

 

HAH!

 

Anyway, I suggest everyone read this. Particularly the second half of the page:

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/kerry_byrne/11/01/patriots-offensive-line/index.html

 

That O-line, and that O-line COACH, are beast. It really is the closest thing to an O-line dynasty that, year after year, performs at an extremely high level. Does Brady help? Sure. But he's not the one putting up a nigh impenetrable wall game after game after game.

 

I'll gladly trade poor Tom Brady's "horrendous" O-line for whatever the heck it is we field every week. I think just about any QB in the NFL would love to have it, too.

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And thats a feat because Ponder is such a great QB????

lol just read your posts back to yourself and realize how ridiculous you sound. Yea, its no feat at all that a RB has more yardage than his QB over a long stretch of games...

Wow.. Theres no point in even debating with people like you anymore on topics like this, you just stick your fingers in your ears and go "NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH I CANT HEAR YOU" like my 6 year old niece does.

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So they had one lackluster game and suddenly the Pats have an O-line as bad as, say, ours?

 

HAH!

 

Anyway, I suggest everyone read this. Particularly the second half of the page:

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/kerry_byrne/11/01/patriots-offensive-line/index.html

 

That O-line, and that O-line COACH, are beast. It really is the closest thing to an O-line dynasty that, year after year, performs at an extremely high level.

lol, nice deflection.. It was not just 1 game, the offensive line has been playing average for quite a stretch of games. Brady has been sacked and destroyed so many times over the last bunch of games. Welker is the only one that has been able to consistently get open, because even when Hernandez was back from his ankle injury, he just wasn't the same as before he injured it. He is still not 100% but he is getting closer. Lloyd struggles to get separation, but luckily hes good at circus sideline catches. Once Gronk is back, the sack numbers will go down a lot, which there is statistical data that already shows the importance of him not only as a catching TE but as a blocking TE as well.

Peyton Manning's O-line this year is much better than the Patriots... Vollmer they may not even extend to a new contract after this year because he has been inconsistent and has been struggling with a back injury for the last 2 years. Mankins has been injured a lot this year and when he is on the field, he's been average because hes trying to play through crazy injuries.. Last year he played on a torn ACL, this year he came back early from rehab to play some more on it.. The guy is a monster and has a high thresh hold for pain, no doubt, but he has been average this year and is another example of how ridiculous the pro bowl voting is getting.

Ryan Clady is one of the best LTs in all of football, and Koppen was a solid center for his entire career with the Patriots. When he got injured, they had 2 viable backups that got a lot of playing time in his absence which is the reason they decided to let him go.

You're right though, Dante Scar is as good as it gets when it comes to offensive line coaches, but this 2nd half of the season they have been middle of the pack in terms of production. Pointing to an article from 1 game this year when they murdered the helpess Rams doesn't change that. The Rams are horrible, the Patriots spanked them up and down the field all game because they're a BAD team.

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lol just read your posts back to yourself and realize how ridiculous you sound. Yea, its no feat at all that a RB has more yardage than his QB over a long stretch of games...

Wow.. Theres no point in even debating with people like you anymore on topics like this, you just stick your fingers in your ears and go "NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH I CANT HEAR YOU" like my 6 year old niece does.

And with that post, you just told me how old you are and what you are.. your the six year old girl in your story. SMH :troll:

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According to FO DVOA for offensive lines

NE 4th (seatlle 1st btw)

Denver 13th

Indy 25th

 

While NE has some talented players there over the years it really is Dante that makes it good. He has 8 players ready to play each game who can also interchange and his schemes..well they're pretty good.

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And with that post, you just told me how old you are and what you are.. your the six year old girl in your story. SMH :troll:

You just tried to brush off the fact that Adrian Peterson has had more yardage as a RB than his Quarterback has had over a long stretch of games. That is unheard of for that to happen, and Christian Ponder is an average QB but hes not horrible... So for him to out produce him in yardage over a stretch of games like that is pretty telling of who is more important to their franchise at this particular point.

How can you possibly sit there and act like you're not being bias and say that its not a big deal that a RB was able to do that? How can you honestly say that... Any fan of football, knowing the game the way it is, especially in this modern passing era, would realize and appreciate how special what AP is doing this year is. Only, all the Manning worshippers keep trying to make it seem like hes not doing anything special at all, but that Manning's performance, which isn't even the best this year out of his position, is oh so special and makes him the obvious MVP choice in your eyes. There are no amount of facts or opinions that will change your mind, you're unbending in your position and your infatuation with Peyton Manning shines through with every post.

Manning isn't doing anything special this year, he is just being himself. Granted, he is a special Quarterback, but what hes accomplishing this year is not special, its just Manning being Manning. None of his numbers are eye popping, none of his numbers stick out above anyone else... His team is as solid as it gets in the NFL right now, with a stellar defense to back him up... Hes playing great, but hes not the MVP this year.

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.

Manning isn't doing anything special this year, he is just being himself. Granted, he is a special Quarterback, but what hes accomplishing this year is not special, its just Manning being Manning. None of his numbers are eye popping, none of his numbers stick out above anyone else... His team is as solid as it gets in the NFL right now, with a stellar defense to back him up... Hes playing great, but hes not the MVP this year.

I agree. Its just that Manning is good thus being himself tends to elevate fans in thinking he's doing something more than he is.

 

Then again if him being himself (thus being good) and if no one else is doing good (not the case this year) he would win.

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JerodMayo51 meet two-way street.  Two-way street meet JerodMayo51.

I don't hate Manning but I agree with a lot of what he is saying. New team don't mean squat, especially when you have 3 rookies on the verge of taking their respective team to the playoffs, who wasn't in the same position last year. He made a good team better. I will give Manning CBPOY all day, every day but I believe that him getting MVP would just be because he is Petyon Manning. That's just my personal opinion. I know a lot of people here hold him in I regard, as do I, but I don't let that create subjective analysis. 

 

Quite honestly, I still don't understand how Brady and Manning are the only 2 QBs in the conversation with Aaron Rodgers playing at the level he is, against stiffer competition.

 

If AP runs crazy on the Packers and they still lose because of shoddy QB play while the Broncos are beating another sub .500 team, I wonder how objective people will look at this race.

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I don't hate Manning but I agree with a lot of what he is saying. New team don't mean squat, especially when you have 3 rookies on the verge of taking their respective team to the playoffs, who wasn't in the same position last year. He made a good team better. I will give Manning CBPOY all day, every day but I believe that him getting MVP would just be because he is Petyon Manning. That's just my personal opinion. I know a lot of people here hold him in I regard, as do I, but I don't let that create subjective analysis. 

 

Quite honestly, I still don't understand how Brady and Manning are the only 2 QBs in the conversation with Aaron Rodgers playing at the level he is, against stiffer competition.

 

If AP runs crazy on the Packers and they still lose because of shoddy QB play while the Broncos are beating another sub .500 team, I wonder how objective people will look at this race.

I'll just leave it at this.

It's not about new team, old team, this stat, that stat, with him and a few others anything Manning does, is discredited by , and anything Brady  does is trumpeted  That is all.  

 

Now obviously there are some examples of that being done in reverse order as well, so I'm not ignoring that, but was just pointing that out in a unique way instead of asking if mayo was the kettle or pot. 

 

There are some Patriots fans here you can actually discuss Manning/Brady, Colts/Patriots with. Some you can't.

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I'll just leave it at this.

It's not about new team, old team, this stat, that stat, with him and a few others anything Manning does, is discredited by , and anything Brady  does is trumpeted  That is all.  

 

Now obviously there are some examples of that being done in reverse order as well, so I'm not ignoring that, but was just pointing that out in a unique way instead of asking if mayo was the kettle or pot. 

 

There are some Patriots fans here you can actually discuss Manning/Brady, Colts/Patriots with. Some you can't.

Gotcha and I understand what you are saying completely.

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I'll just leave it at this.

It's not about new team, old team, this stat, that stat, with him and a few others anything Manning does, is discredited by , and anything Brady  does is trumpeted  That is all.  

 

Now obviously there are some examples of that being done in reverse order as well, so I'm not ignoring that, but was just pointing that out in a unique way instead of asking if mayo was the kettle or pot. 

 

There are some Patriots fans here you can actually discuss Manning/Brady, Colts/Patriots with. Some you can't.

yeah I would agree with his post 100% too.

 

I will say this about Brady. He's playing at the peak of peaks of his career this year. Much of his play is just split second perfect.

 

I fear this is the end of the peak...(I mean can it get better?) ....not that the downslide would be bad with a good team/defense :)

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yeah I would agree with his post 100% too.

 

I will say this about Brady. He's playing at the peak of peaks of his career this year. Much of his play is just split second perfect.

 

I fear this is the end of the peak...(I mean can it get better?) ....not that the downslide would be bad with a good team/defense :)

It's not clear which his you are referring to.... Quite a few to choose from... :)

 

 

If his decline is anything like his climb(and by that I mean steady), I think you guys are unfortunately in good hands for the next 5 years.

 

Id' say he's been at his peak since 07 or so...    

 

He had a steady climb, has leveled off at the top of that for a few years, and if he's head down, I think it will be a steady decline rather than a sharp decline. 

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JerodMayo51 meet two-way street.  Two-way street meet JerodMayo51.

My whole argument was mainly against Manning getting the MVP over Brady this year, because Brady is having a better year and working with less while he does it.

I was able to put aside that though and acknowledge that Adrian Peterson is in fact the MVP because he has carried that entire team on his back as a Running Back, which is extremely rare to see in todays NFL. If Adrian Peterson doesn't win it, then it should go to Brady, but the media loves Manning so he will end up winning a 5th one im sure.. Granted, he doesnt have the stats to support it, if anything it should be another Co-MVP like when McNair and Manning shared it, because Manning hasn't done anything special that makes him stick out among anyone else and be the sure fire MVP. Sharing it with Adrian Peterson or Brady would be the right thing to do if they decide they want to give Manning a 5th one.

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It's not clear which his you are referring to.... Quite a few to choose from... :)

 

 

If his decline is anything like his climb(and by that I mean steady), I think you guys are unfortunately in good hands for the next 5 years.

 

Id' say he's been at his peak since 07 or so...    

 

He had a steady climb, has leveled off at the top of that for a few years, and if he's head down, I think it will be a steady decline rather than a sharp decline. 

Oh its Tommy btw :)   (I think the WHO did that) :)

 

But yeah...I can see a steady veteran hand on the downslope...but the team will have to be good. He can't afford getting hit either....much ;)

 

by peak peak I mean the ultimate split second timing/evasion he (tom) has this season which is better than 07...

07 being more a heavy hammer lol

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I didn't think GB would be getting dominated like this early by the Vikes.

 

Wow......

 

If the Vikings make it I don't see how you can't say Peterson isn't the MVP. Really. They are pretty much the suprise of the NFC as we are the AFC. They picked third last year people......

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I didn't think GB would be getting dominated like this early by the Vikes.

Wow......

If the Vikings make it I don't see how you can't say Peterson isn't the MVP. Really. They are pretty much the suprise of the NFC as we are the AFC. They picked third last year people......

And Indy picked first.. so whats your point??

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