Simplify Offense for Luck

[BProland85]

Our we going to simplify our offense for Luck so that he has a nice rookie year like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton did? Does anyone know if this is Arian's plan?

Personally, I think we can simplify things but at the same time we can give Luck a couple of plays to choose from at the line and pick which one he feels would work against the defense.

[willysp]

Why would we need to simplify the offense for him? He's a Stanford grad, and seems like a very smart guy.

[Superman]

We're no longer running the Tom Moore/Peyton Manning offense. We're running the Bruce Arians offense. I think they'll give him a nice chunk as a base, and then build from that as the year goes on. Week 5 (first game after the bye) will be a good measuring stick to see how much leeway the coaches are willing to give him.

[bahhummbug]

We're no longer running the Tom Moore/Peyton Manning offense. We're running the Bruce Arians offense. I think they'll give him a nice chunk as a base, and then build from that as the year goes on. Week 5 (first game after the bye) will be a good measuring stick to see how much leeway the coaches are willing to give him.

I agree Iam all for an early bye week this year.Will help rookies that are not clicking get on page with vets.

[bavanlan]

Our we going to simplify our offense for Luck so that he has a nice rookie year like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton did? Does anyone know if this is Arian's plan?

Personally, I think we can simplify things but at the same time we can give Luck a couple of plays to choose from at the line and pick which one he feels would work against the defense.

I hope we spend the year challenging him, rather than simplifying things for him. He'll get so much more out of it that way.

[GoColts8818]

We're no longer running the Tom Moore/Peyton Manning offense. We're running the Bruce Arians offense. I think they'll give him a nice chunk as a base, and then build from that as the year goes on. Week 5 (first game after the bye) will be a good measuring stick to see how much leeway the coaches are willing to give him.

Yes we aren't running the Tom Moore offense but let's not forget the Arians offense also grew out of the Moore offense and he had a lot to do with putting in the offense that Peyton used and christinson was kept in part because of his knowledge of the old colts offense. I am sure it will be tweaked but I am sure there will be a good chunk of it that's like the old offense.

[NewColtsFan]

In a word...... no. You want two words? heck, no!

There is no need to simplify anything for Luck. He already has an exceptional grasp of the playbook. He just needs reps....

The problems Luck will inevitably have will not come from the playbook being too complex or too big. They'll come from getting used to the speed, size, and new approaches that the NFL game presents. That's what gets most rookies. It's to be expected.

But you don't have to simplifying anything for Andrew.

His number one skill.... his absolute strength, is what's above his shoulders. His brain is his best attribute. Give him more, not less. The more you give him, the more he likes it. Push him, and keep pushing him until he says, I've got enough.

Give him reps, time and game experience and he'll be all that you want him to be.....

[JoKeR]

Our we going to simplify our offense for Luck so that he has a nice rookie year like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton did? Does anyone know if this is Arian's plan?

Personally, I think we can simplify things but at the same time we can give Luck a couple of plays to choose from at the line and pick which one he feels would work against the defense.

Just another plus of drafting Luck, they don't have to simplify anything. The guy is calling 30 word plays at the line, he's fine.

[DarkHorse]

I'm not worried about andrew luck Knowing the offense I'm more worried about the offensive line knowing the audible plays at the line of scrimmage when andrew luck read the defense then changes the play. This is a whole new line I just hope they can keep up with him.

[JoKeR]

I don't believe blocking schemes are as complex as the actual plays. Could be wrong though.

[NewColtsFan]

I'm not worried about andrew luck Knowing the offense I'm more worried about the offensive line knowing the audible plays at the line of scrimmage when andrew luck read the defense then changes the play. This is a whole new line I just hope they can keep up with him.

I don't think you'll have to worry about the O-line.... typically on most every football team, other than the QB, it's the offensive lineman who are the smartest players on the roster. They're very, very sharp guys. By necessity, they have to be. By the time the season starts, they should be good to go.

Doesn't mean they won't have some growing pains.... all new lines do.... but knowing the plays shouldn't be a problem.

[Superman]

Yes we aren't running the Tom Moore offense but let's not forget the Arians offense also grew out of the Moore offense and he had a lot to do with putting in the offense that Peyton used and christinson was kept in part because of his knowledge of the old colts offense. I am sure it will be tweaked but I am sure there will be a good chunk of it that's like the old offense.

Good points, but the Colts offense evolved quite a bit in the years since Arians left. It started to become an extension of Manning, more than a transferable offense. I think that's part of the reason he had a few lively conversations with Christensen on the sidelines over the past three years, because Manning and Moore were so often thinking the same thing. Then, with Clyde, there's a new idea here and there, and it's not better or worse, but different, so there's some back and forth about it.

Either way, there are plenty of differences from what we've done on offense since 2008 and what we were doing on offense in 2000 when Arians left. Every offense has some overlap with every other offense, but I think we'll see some different things moving forward than we've seen in recent years. The fact that some of the receivers are being put in motion pre-snap is one key difference.

To be honest, if you want a simple offense, you probably want what Manning and Moore did for so many years. We've heard over and over again how simple the plays were, how there were probably 10-15 plays, with different variations and wrinkles. The playbook wasn't complex. The complexities came with Manning's audibles and adjustments at the line, where every player on offense needed to know what the call was, without a huddle, and had to be prepared for the play to change with less than 10 seconds left on the clock. If you haven't read Smart Football's article from a few weeks ago, I urge you to read it when you get a chance. http://smartfootball.com/offense/peyton-manning-and-tom-moores-indianapolis-colts-offense

The "offense" was more of an orchestration than a playbook, only the key pieces could change at the drop of a hat, and you'd better be ready for it. I don't know that we'll ever see a system like that again, even with Manning, because it wasn't installed as much as it evolved.

[Superman]

I don't believe blocking schemes are as complex as the actual plays. Could be wrong though.

I think he's talking more about the audibles than the actual schemes. Don't want to be pass blocking on a run play.

[FireJimCaldwell]

As Sup pointed out the Colts offense of recent years had progressed quite a bit from when Arians was the QB coach. I have little confidence in Christensen and felt he should have been shown the door as quickly as Coyer, Caldwell or anyone else last year.

With the few videos that popped up on here and other sites, the formation motions are something the Colts rarely did under the Moore/Manning tenure. There were times in short yardage that they would shift out, but the shifts are big part of what Arians ran in Pittsburgh, but were rarely ran here.

If I had to bet the house I would say the offense will be closer to what Pitt ran than what Moore/Manning ran over the past decade.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I don't believe blocking schemes are as complex as the actual plays. Could be wrong though.

They are the most complicated part of the play.

A 9 route is a 9 route.

Here is a page from the 03 Patriots offensive playbook.

Just pick one position and notice the various assignments based on where the players are positioned.

Lower right hand corner. "Under Tim", Then imagine a cross blitz where the Will & Mike go to opposite side A gaps...

Pass protection is the first thing the team has to get straight or it is a long day for the QB.

[NewColtsFan]

As Sup pointed out the Colts offense of recent years had progressed quite a bit from when Arians was the QB coach. I have little confidence in Christensen and felt he should have been shown the door as quickly as Coyer, Caldwell or anyone else last year.

With the few videos that popped up on here and other sites, the formation motions are something the Colts rarely did under the Moore/Manning tenure. There were times in short yardage that they would shift out, but the shifts are big part of what Arians ran in Pittsburgh, but were rarely ran here.

If I had to bet the house I would say the offense will be closer to what Pitt ran than what Moore/Manning ran over the past decade.

You know this franchise much better than I do, FJC.... but I'd only add this.... if Pagano, Arians and Grigson are fine with Christensen at the QB coach position, I suspect that's a very good sign. I don't think he'd be here if he was viewed as anything else than an asset.

Just my hunch.....

[Superman]

As Sup pointed out the Colts offense of recent years had progressed quite a bit from when Arians was the QB coach. I have little confidence in Christensen and felt he should have been shown the door as quickly as Coyer, Caldwell or anyone else last year.

I don't have very much confidence in him as the coordinator, but as a position coach, I have no problem with him. Not for now. Pagano and Arians could have brought in someone they wanted, I'm sure, but chose to keep him. Their vote of confidence makes me feel better.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I don't have very much confidence in him as the coordinator, but as a position coach, I have no problem with him. Not for now. Pagano and Arians could have brought in someone they wanted, I'm sure, but chose to keep him. Their vote of confidence makes me feel better.

You know this franchise much better than I do, FJC.... but I'd only add this.... if Pagano, Arians and Grigson are fine with Christensen at the QB coach position, I suspect that's a very good sign. I don't think he'd be here if he was viewed as anything else than an asset.

Just my hunch.....

Last year soured me on him period. I wasn't fond of him prior to that but last year he was easily as bad as Coyer & Caldwell.

[NewColtsFan]

Last year soured me on him period. I wasn't fond of him prior to that but last year he was easily as bad as Coyer & Caldwell.

Understood.....

A question...... was Christensen the QB coach last year? Or, was he the OC? Or, was it someone else? I thought he was the OC, and if he's willing to take a step back to just being the QB coach for the same team, that's pretty rare.

Normally, if a coach takes a step back, he does it with another team....

Just asking....

[FireJimCaldwell]

Understood.....

A question...... was Christensen the QB coach last year? Or, was he the OC? Or, was it someone else? I thought he was the OC, and if he's willing to take a step back to just being the QB coach for the same team, that's pretty rare.

Normally, if a coach takes a step back, he does it with another team....

Just asking....

He was the OC from 2009-2011, prior to that he was the Wide Receiver's coach since Dungy arrived. He was the OC Dungy's last year in Tampa, and was the QB coach in Tampa for a couple of years. I guess at this point it should be noted the offensive futility was the main reason Dungy was fired in Tampa to start with.

[Fx Stryker]

Doesn't Arians run a simple offense?

[JoKeR]

He was the OC from 2009-2011, prior to that he was the Wide Receiver's coach since Dungy arrived. He was the OC Dungy's last year in Tampa, and was the QB coach in Tampa for a couple of years. I guess at this point it should be noted the offensive futility was the main reason Dungy was fired in Tampa to start with.

Was Dungy just that loyal or did he always put the blame on himself?

[Superman]

He was the OC from 2009-2011, prior to that he was the Wide Receiver's coach since Dungy arrived. He was the OC Dungy's last year in Tampa, and was the QB coach in Tampa for a couple of years. I guess at this point it should be noted the offensive futility was the main reason Dungy was fired in Tampa to start with.

The offense was bad because Shaun King was the quarterback. But that is a good connection; Christensen has been in charge of some bad offenses over the years.

Also, while Christensen did have the title in 2009, Tom Moore was still around daily, and was calling most of the plays. Word was that Christensen was calling only the red zone plays that year.

[Superman]

Was Dungy just that loyal or did he always put the blame on himself?

Dungy was very loyal, to a fault, I believe. Russ Purnell and Ron Meeks got a lot more rope than other coaches would have given. I think Meeks might have been fired after 2006 if not for the turnaround in the playoffs, but still.

[FireJimCaldwell]

The offense was bad because Shaun King was the quarterback. But that is a good connection; Christensen has been in charge of some bad offenses over the years.

Also, while Christensen did have the title in 2009, Tom Moore was still around daily, and was calling most of the plays. Word was that Christensen was calling only the red zone plays that year.

This is true. Manning has raved about him, but he also spoke well of Caldwell. I don't know if that is him with his PC hat on, or sincere thoughts.

Dungy was very loyal, to a fault, I believe. Russ Purnell and Ron Meeks got a lot more rope than other coaches would have given. I think Meeks might have been fired after 2006 if not for the turnaround in the playoffs, but still.

I agree, I guess most coaches are like that. You hired the guy for the most part, you're likely friends with them and such.

Doesn't Arians run a simple offense?

Not exactly. The shifts get old, but it's about trying to catch the defense off guard. The Moore/Manning offense was more here is our offense, we do the following, we are going to be effective because we execute, where Arians will try to trick the defense more by shifting from formation to formation to try to get a mismatch.

[FireJimCaldwell]

This is from the Steelers 2004 playbook. Arians was the WR coach at that point.

Another example of how blocking schemes change based on fronts.

[FireJimCaldwell]

One of the pages of various shifts from 2004 Pittsburgh.

[southwest1]

This is from the Steelers 2004 playbook. Arians was the WR coach at that point.

Another example of how blocking schemes change based on fronts.

FJC,

Do they sell old NFL playbooks on Amazon.com or something? I thought all franchises tightly locked down any unauthorized access to prevent another team's competitive advantage? Just Kidding!!! I know it's not a 2012 Playbook.

[FireJimCaldwell]

FJC,

Do they sell old NFL playbooks on Amazon.com or something? I thought all franchises tightly locked down any unauthorized access to prevent another team's competitive advantage? Just Kidding!!! I know it's not a 2012 Playbook.

I wish they did.

They do try to protect them for the most part, but some make it out and can be found in various places.

I have quite a few in pdf format... They can be rather interesting to look at.

Right now on ebay there is a Steelers playbook from the Green Bay Super Bowl, prep. That would likely be more relevant than the 04 book, but I'm sure it has some similar stuff in it as well.

[Dan]

Surely to simplify the offense is to shut down one of Luck's most potent features, his football IQ?

[atapcl]

Our we going to simplify our offense for Luck so that he has a nice rookie year like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton did? Does anyone know if this is Arian's plan?

Personally, I think we can simplify things but at the same time we can give Luck a couple of plays to choose from at the line and pick which one he feels would work against the defense.

Tom James of the TribStar tweeted that coach Ariens said that Luck has about 90% of the offense down already. Maybe the offense is already simplified or Luck is absolutely brilliant. It took Dallas Clark nearly 2 years to grasp Tom Moore's offense and Luck has Areiens' offense down in a month with only a few days of practice.

[southwest1]

FJC,

Do they sell old NFL playbooks on Amazon.com or something? I thought all franchises tightly locked down any unauthorized access to prevent another team's competitive advantage? Just Kidding!!! I know it's not a 2012 Playbook.

I wish they did.

They do try to protect them for the most part, but some make it out and can be found in various places.

I have quite a few in pdf format... They can be rather interesting to look at.

Right now on ebay there is a Steelers playbook from the Green Bay Super Bowl, prep. That would likely be more relevant than the 04 book, but I'm sure it has some similar stuff in it as well.

Granted, no NFL team can stop all copies of the playbook from leaving their facility, but more squads like Denver put all their playbook schemes on ipads now with a digital access key that can be periodically changed & erased permanently if necessary. Although, no metadata can be completely eliminated in scope either. At least digital copies cut down on ebay & Amazon sales I guess.

Assignments in gap control are nice to look at though. I agree 100%.

[Gavin]

http://understandingthetrickeration.wordpress.com/2010/09/25/understanding-the-indianapolis-colts-offense/ I thought this was interesting and worth while to read, However its from a couple years ago

[FireJimCaldwell]

Granted, no NFL team can stop all copies of the playbook from leaving their facility, but more squads like Denver put all their playbook schemes on ipads now with a digital access key that can be periodically changed & erased permanently if necessary. Although, no metadata can be completely eliminated in scope either. At least digital copies cut down on ebay & Amazon sales I guess.

Assignments in gap control are nice to look at though. I agree 100%.

Most of the stuff is traded back and fourth from people that have an interest in them.

The Ipads will cut down on some of it. Time will tell how much it eliminates it.

[betheafan41]

well apparently he is already taking control...if thats for real then whats it matter? he is obviously comftorble with doing it his way, so let him call his own plays. as was stated on a previous post, he is a stanford grad and a smart kid.

[lollygagger8]

Remember how mad Rothlesburger was when Arians was shown the door in Pittsburgh?

That has to be a good sign for us.

I can't wait to see shouting matches on the side lines with Big Ben and Todd Haley. Fun Times.

[Rich Cannon]

Our we going to simplify our offense for Luck so that he has a nice rookie year like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton did? Does anyone know if this is Arian's plan?

Personally, I think we can simplify things but at the same time we can give Luck a couple of plays to choose from at the line and pick which one he feels would work against the defense.

I dont think the offense will be simplified, more so I think Luck will be protected. What I mean by protected is the runnning game. I dont think Coach Pagano at least in year one will have game plans drawn up for Luck to thrown the Ball 30 + times like an Aaron Rogers or Drew Brees. I think 20 times a game and alot of runs to protect Luck and a young Offensive line.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Haters Gonna Hate

Yeah I just jacked that .gif

[southwest1]

Remember how mad Rothlesburger was when Arians was shown the door in Pittsburgh?

That has to be a good sign for us.

I can't wait to see shouting matches on the side lines with Big Ben and Todd Haley. Fun Times.

I sure do Lollygager. Big Ben's body language spoke volumes about his displeasure over losing Arians as his OC without even saying a word. I hope having Arians in the INDY corner twice now is an exceptional omen for us too. Yup, there is destined to be some friction between Todd Haley & Big Ben. Pull up a chair, grab some popcorn, & enjoy the fireworks.

In fairness to Todd Haley though, he holds everybody accountable from rookies to seasoned veterans. That's the way it should be too. He demands improvement & attention to detail at all times on the field & I really like that i.e. a Championship mentality. Haley was a vital cog in the machine that took the Cardinals to the SB & nearly won the game as well.

[GoColts8818]

Dungy was very loyal, to a fault, I believe. Russ Purnell and Ron Meeks got a lot more rope than other coaches would have given. I think Meeks might have been fired after 2006 if not for the turnaround in the playoffs, but still.

with that said I would have taken Meeks over Coyer at least with the cover-2 defense in place.