Polian: Kyle Orton Could Have Been A Colt

[JCPatriot]

I think it goes in reverse order of standings, so the worst team in the standings gets the first waiver pick up. And I believe we were worse than KC

Ahhhh......so it's based on current standings and not on standings at the end of the previous year? That makes sense; I just didn't realize it.

[21isSuperman]

Ahhhh......so it's based on current standings and not on standings at the end of the previous year? That makes sense; I just didn't realize it.

I believe that's what it is, but I could be wrong. Bav probably knows it better than I do

[FireJimCaldwell]

I believe that's what it is, but I could be wrong. Bav probably knows it better than I do

I believe it depends on when the player is cut.

Early on it's based on the previous year, and after a certain point in the season it's based on the current season's records.

[icf]

Last season is over and it's time to move on.....

I think over all the team is in a better position today with Luck...than if they had held on to Manning and some over the other veterans that were let go.

Next year will likely still be a tough one, but they are in a postion thanks to getting Luck and the Cap space to be pretty good within a couple of years.

[FireJimCaldwell]

You probably won't be surprised to learn that this argument has been made repeatedly (and this topic debated ad nauseam) since last August. It's certainly a valid perspective, but I'm kinda scratching my head regarding this level of reflection and concern on the topic coming from someone whose name would be "NewRedskinsFan" if not for the aforementioned circumstances. While you were indifferently waiting to see who your new team was going to be, we were being slowly tortured. As someone who is as invested in the Colts as you are in Stanford (and as invested in Manning as you are in Luck - despite being incapable of uttering the phrase "Man Crush" without snarling in disgust) - I would have MUCH preferred retaining Manning. How would you feel if it was 2026, and Luck was the one being pushed out the door to make room for a much ballyhooed kid from - oh lets just say The University of California! Would that feel any different?

I actually like his honesty. "New Colts Fan". I agree that he could have easily been "New Redskins Fan" or "New Browns Fan", or whatever team Luck ended up on.

With that said, I prefer his honesty as opposed to some of the other fans that are new here and pretending to be life long Colts fans, when it is clear they are here only because the team drafted Andrew Luck.

I also agree with your other points in your post.

[TKnight24]

I actually like his honesty. "New Colts Fan". I agree that he could have easily been "New Redskins Fan" or "New Browns Fan", or whatever team Luck ended up on.

With that said, I prefer his honesty as opposed to some of the other fans that are new here and pretending to be life long Colts fans, when it is clear they are here only because the team drafted Andrew Luck.

I also agree with your other points in your post.

Tell em Caldwell, they wasn't with us back in Miami in the Rain when we took the W against the Bears in the Super Bowl! lol

[#12]

We would have rekindled our interest in Orton. In Week 6, we knew our quarterback situation wasn't great, but after a couple more weeks, we realized the situation was bad.

When did it hit you, Bill, that your entire team, outside of your freakish HOF QB, was pathetically weak?

[The Fish]

There are plenty of people, football fans and sports media, who think the Colts did this on purpose (tanking, a genuinely stupid charge). I have no doubt that when Polian brings this up, he's calling to attention the fact that no one, literally no one thought things would go that far south, that fast. The Saints game last year was when it occurred to me that Peyton's absence and the poor play of the reserves could potentially create this scenario, I think thats when Bill knew it also.

So, Orton might have done better than O, but honestly with just days for him to potentially learn the colts watered down system and the fact that he's only marginally more talented than Orlovsky, what difference would it of made? Polian figured out the extent of the problem as we did and he was desperate to keep all of this from happening, hence not losing on purpose.

The team effort provided Painter opportunities to beat the Bucs, the Steelers and a few others, maybe if the back up situation had been addresed properly, when it mattered, this wouldn't have gone down this way.

[TKnight24]

There are plenty of people, football fans and sports media, who think the Colts did this on purpose (tanking, a genuinely stupid charge). I have no doubt that when Polian brings this up, he's calling to attention the fact that no one, literally no one thought things would go that far south, that fast. The Saints game last year was when it occurred to me that Peyton's absence and the poor play of the reserves could potentially create this scenario, I think thats when Bill knew it also.

So, Orton might have done better than O, but honestly with just days for him to potentially learn the colts watered down system and the fact that he's only marginally more talented than Orlovsky, what difference would it of made? Polian figured out the extent of the problem as we did and he was desperate to keep all of this from happening, hence not losing on purpose.

The team effort provided Painter opportunities to beat the Bucs, the Steelers and a few others, maybe if the back up situation had been addresed properly, when it mattered, this wouldn't have gone down this way.

Exactly, we passed on Andy Dalton (2nd Round Pick) & Colt McCoy (3rd Round Pick). Both of these would've been Excellent Back-Ups for Peyton... but everyone thought Peyton was Indestructable and never thought to get a GOOD Back Up QB smh

[Gavin]

My money would have been on Orlovsky but its all a moot point now

[Vinny BoomBatz]

Its a moot point as it wasn't the rule then and quite frankly if Indy was 0-7 and traded for Orton they may have gone 4-12 and it would probably have lead to offering up a package greater than Washington did to get one of the two top QB's as I believe the Manning/Colts split was going to happen after the 0-7 start. Coupled with the uncertainty of Manning's condition and salary cap implications obviously.

[GoColts8818]

Of course Orton is better than Painter. I'm not questioning that. Orton has always been better than Painter.....even at Purdue. My point was that Orton was not the long-term solution, and I did not want to trade away future value (especially draft picks) for a stop gap that would result in a couple extra token wins in a lost season.

...and we give up a 3rd round draft pick in the process. Not a good trade.

And this is where I say that if he is trying to save face, he is doing a terrible job of it......at least with me. I would have been extremely upset if he had made this trade. Giving away a 3rd round pick for a guy that is going to play half a season (in a season that is lost anwyay) and then be replaced does not help the team moving forward. All I can say is thank goodness the rules were what they were and Polian was that slow to figure out how terrible Painter was.

I never said it would have been a good move...I said I think it Polian trying to save face for sticking with Painter as long as they did and that Orton is better than Painter. In fact I agreed with the person who said they were happy with how things played out, I am too minus not having Peyton anymore which should probably tell you where I stand on it...

[The Fish]

Exactly, we passed on Andy Dalton (2nd Round Pick) & Colt McCoy (3rd Round Pick). Both of these would've been Excellent Back-Ups for Peyton... but everyone thought Peyton was Indestructable and never thought to get a GOOD Back Up QB smh

Say we don't draft either guy, and the talent scouts notice that Orlovsky dosent throw the ball at peoples feet two yards in front of them. Then they actually use that information, as opposed to letting Painter be a starter.. Orlovsky from day one would have won those 3 games needed to keep Peyton, that I have no doubt.

[TKnight24]

Say we don't draft either guy, and the talent scouts notice that Orlovsky dosent throw the ball at peoples feet two yards in front of them. Then they actually use that information, as opposed to letting Painter be a starter.. Orlovsky from day one would have won those 3 games needed to keep Peyton, that I have no doubt.

No question O was better than Painter. Should've Won the Steelers game if anything. But apparently our coaching staff thought just cause Painter was there longer, he should start. And idk what they were thinking with bringing in Collins

[NewColtsFan]

You probably won't be surprised to learn that this argument has been made repeatedly (and this topic debated ad nauseam) since last August. It's certainly a valid perspective, but I'm kinda scratching my head regarding this level of reflection and concern on the topic coming from someone whose name would be "NewRedskinsFan" if not for the aforementioned circumstances. While you were indifferently waiting to see who your new team was going to be, we were being slowly tortured. As someone who is as invested in the Colts as you are in Stanford (and as invested in Manning as you are in Luck - despite being incapable of uttering the phrase "Man Crush" without snarling in disgust) - I would have MUCH preferred retaining Manning. How would you feel if it was 2026, and Luck was the one being pushed out the door to make room for a much ballyhooed kid from - oh lets just say The University of California! Would that feel any different?

Mac....

You make a fair argument.... allow me to answer your points.... First, I want to stress that I am a long term guy. I try to take that approach in most everything I do in life. What's best for the long run? Not what addresses my short term needs? So, if I'm still hanging around here 14 years from now I hope and *expect* that I'd say..... "I've loved my years with Luck guiding the Colts -- and weren't those Super Bowl wins great! -- but this knee injury that he suffered is devastating and it looks like we're headed toward one of those terrible 2-14 seasons like we had WAY back in 2011. The King is Dead; Long Live the King. And welcome in the new QB from whatever school -- including Cal. (FWIW: Since I didn't attend Stanford I've never been caught up in the hate of all things Cal.)

A great player is a great player, and I'll take 12-14 years of New Great Player over 2-3 of Old Great Player -- UNLESS we still have a great team around the old guy. If we do, then, and ONLY then would I want to keep Old Guy. But, since management tore down the old team to rebuild around the New Guy, then it's time to move on. And, again, for what it's worth, I really, really like and admire Peyton. Always have. That dates back to his returning to Tennessee for his 4th year. It took until last year to learn to admire Eli. Typically, my love is earned slowly.

A few last thoughts.... apologies for the "Man Crush" reference, didn't mean to do that to you. Just found it descriptive. I shook my head over the thought of me being "NewRedskinFan".... honestly, that thought had not occurred to me. And I'm NOT a fan of Daniel Snyder. Bad franchises start from the top. And the Redskins have been bad since he bought them. I'm split on Shannahan. Very good coach. But he didn't help himself in Denver when he had control of the draft. Did very poorly leading to 3 straight 8-8 seasons. Part of the reason why it's easier for me to be a NewColtsFan is more than Luck/Fleener. My early reviews on Pagano/Grigson are very positive. They both come from well run franchises. I hope that's really going to help in the years to come.

Apologies this rambled so long....

NewColtsFan

[MR. Blueblood]

There's not a day that goes by that I'm not thankful for Polian being fired. He's made nothing but moronic comments about this team, and the woulda, coulda, shouldas ever since. I'm glad that we didn't end up with Orton, even on the cheap, you're still throwing money away on another mediocre QB. I agree with all who have blamed the coaching staff for their role in the QB debacle last season. Coaches are paid to put their players in the best positions to win. Our coached FAILED miserably in that capacity. Orton or no Orton we still would've been bad.

[UMLBB10]

it took Polian that long to come to the conclusion the QB situation wasn't good? I see why he was fired. When Kerry Collins was named started I knew the colts QB situation was real bad.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I believe Irsay was given misinformation early on after Manning's surgery that he would never play again and at that point he became infatuated with Luck being the next quarterback.

Oh Lord, LOL!!

Anyway, Polian's mistakes were many but his errors with the QB situation would've only been compounded had he WASTED A draft pick on Kyle Orton.

A. Not handling the Manning Contract correctly. Irsay had to step in and get it done

B. Not handling Manning's injury correctly last offseason and going into the season

C. Stuck with Painter/Interference w/the Offense

D. Late over-selling of Kerry Collins

[HarassedOffTheSite]

There's not a day that goes by that I'm not thankful for Polian being fired.

There's not a day goes by (when this issue is discussed) that I am not thankful we hired Polian. If he gets the heat for the previous season...then he gets the kudos for the other 12.

[Gavin]

There's not a day goes by (when this issue is discussed) that I am not thankful we hired Polian. If he gets the heat for the previous season...then he gets the kudos for the other 12.

What did he do besides draft Peyton that he deserves credit for?

[Andy]

I get the feeling that Polian is just saying this so he could get an interesting story out there.

Either way, I'm happy with Luck!

[HarassedOffTheSite]

What did he do besides draft Peyton that he deserves credit for?

Is that an dishonest question?

Edited May 29, 2012 by Maureen
baiting

[Gavin]

Is that a dishonest question?

Im seriously trying to figure out what he did besides draft Peyton because Peyton made everyone look better then what they really were Edited May 29, 2012 by Maureen

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Im seriously trying to figure out what he did besides draft Peyton because Peyton made everyone look better then what they really were

So the answer to my question is yes. ;)

How about we go with Jim Irsay's perspective:

Polian's draftees include Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai, Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Bob Sanders, Antoine Bethea, Marlin Jackson, Dallas Clark. Polian signed free agents in Jeff Saturday, Mike Vanderjagt, Dominic Rhodes, Gary Brackett.

http://www.colts.com/team/staff/Bill-Poliani/5a051f42-fdb7-4bc7-a5aa-983c7faf9a97

[oldunclemark]

http://www.nfl.com/n..._headline_stack

NFL owners agreed to move the trade deadline from Week 6 to Week 8 last week. Had that rule been enacted just one year earlier, the Indianapolis Colts could have stepped up their efforts to acquire quarterback Kyle Orton from the Denver Broncos. Bill Polian tells Sports Illustrated's Peter King in this week's edition of "Monday Morning Quarterback".

The move could have led to the Colts finishing with a better record in 2011 and keeping Peyton Manning, which would have allowed another team to draft Andrew Luck.

"I think the deadline being moved last year would have made a difference for us," said Polian, who was let go from his role as team president by owner Jim Irsay after the season.

"We would have rekindled our interest in Orton. In Week 6, we knew our quarterback situation wasn't great, but after a couple more weeks, we realized the situation was bad. We probably would have called Denver, who'd gone to (Tim) Tebow by then, and said, 'Hey, we'll give you a three (third-round draft choice) for Orton.' "

--

That's an interesting thing to think about. With Orton, we almost certainly would have done better than 2-14 and we wouldn't have gotten Andrew Luck. Giving up our 3rd rounder would have almost meant no Dwayne Allen. Personally, I'm not a fan of giving up such a high draft pick for a temporary fix at QB. But it could have also meant that we kept Peyton Manning.

And let's keep it clean here, folks. We don't want to get into any childish arguments.

The logic says that Orton would have won more then 2 games. I'm not sure ......but probably correct.

Luck would not have been an option and we'd have no choice but to gamble (successfully) on Peyton's health..

the 3rdc round draft choice is irrelevemnat because Dallas Clark would still be here..right?

Interesting.

Its odd how forthcoming Polian is now that he's not working anywhere.

Executives believe that secrets are power

[oldunclemark]

There's not a day goes by (when this issue is discussed) that I am not thankful we hired Polian. If he gets the heat for the previous season...then he gets the kudos for the other 12.

Its a split decision.

I never liked him when he was here. he's just not a nice man...and I feel he didnt apprecaite the fans.

he rarely showed it if he did...

But he did a great job fro the franchise...There's no 2 ways about that

[Gavin]

Edgerrin-great pick, wish he never got injured

Joseph Addai-only two 1,000 yard plus seasons-released

Reggie Wayne- very good wide receiver but not a number 1

Pierre Garcon-same thing

Austin Collie-slot receiver

Dwight Freeney-Ill give ya that one

Robert Mathis-Ill give ya that one

Bob Sanders-injury prone had two good seasons and had not played even half the games in any season since 2007, Im gonna go out on a limb and say that didnt work well

Antoine Bethea-good pick

Vanderjagt-good pick

Rhodes-I still would have liked to keep him

Gary Brackett-not sure if your serious, he is a backup on most any other team

every guy he hit on I can name 3-4-5 he completely missed , he hit on maybe 11-12 guys in 14 years out of how many picks? I wouldnt call Marlin Jackson a success either

[oldunclemark]

Vanderjaqt was a 'good pick'

but Gary Brackett 'is a backup on any other team???'

He started in the Super Bowl..

Wayne "Not a No.1"?

He's a Hall-of-Famer, Gavin..

Your evaluations are creative...

[lollygagger8]

This is just one more reason why I'm more than happy Na'Polian is gone.

[Gavin]

Vanderjaqt was a 'good pick'

but Gary Brackett 'is a backup on any other team???'

He started in the Super Bowl..

Wayne "Not a No.1"?

He's a Hall-of-Famer, Gavin..

Your evaluations are creative...

Actually yours are more creative, of course Brackett started in the Super Bowl Peyton took him their, and no Wayne is not a number 1 on quite a bit of teams in the league, he dont have the deep threat speed of a number 1, I can name other number 1's more suited for that role

[JoKeR]

When did it hit you, Bill, that your entire team, outside of your freakish HOF QB, was pathetically weak?

Really? The entire team? You go to far. Angerer, Mathis, Wayne, Saturday, Bethea, Freeney, Collie, Clark, and Conner were pathetically weak?

[oldunclemark]

Actually yours are more creative, of course Brackett started in the Super Bowl Peyton took him their, and no Wayne is not a number 1 on quite a bit of teams in the league, he dont have the deep threat speed of a number 1, I can name other number 1's more suited for that role

But Polian drafted Wayne..right./.and he's a Hall-of-Famer..right.

Your post is an analysis of Polian's drafting and player choices...right?

You've got to give him LOTS of credit for drafting Rggie Wayne..

.and his picking quality undrafted free agents was excellent...admit it.

[Gavin]

and Heck I can name a year he completely missed in the entire draft (2000, also 2005 is in my opinion debatable) and a few other seasons he hit on 1-2

[Gavin]

But Polian drafted Wayne..right./.and he's a Hall-of-Famer..right.

Your post is an analysis of Polian's drafting and player choices...right?

You've got to give him LOTS of credit for drafting Rggie Wayne..

.and his picking quality undrafted free agents was excellent...admit it.

I have yet to see if Saturday is a product of Peytons success or not, VanderJagt was a good pick up, Brackett he was alright but like I said a back up on many other teams, Rhodes, we should have never let him go, and Wayne is very good but no hall of famer, hes not elite

[oldunclemark]

I have yet to see if Saturday is a product of Peytons success or not, VanderJagt was a good pick up, Brackett he was alright but like I said a back up on many other teams, Rhodes, we should have never let him go, and Wayne is very good but no hall of famer, hes not elite

The center cannot be the product of the quarterback...It doesnt work that way.

Saturday was all-pro...

Bracket started and was a defensive team captain in the Super Bowl..he was more than all-right

Elite is just one of those words ESPN wears out

IF REGGIE WAYNE - 11,000 yards...73 TDs

retierd today....He would be elected to the Pro football hall-of-Fame.

Most everyone who has watched his entire career agrees on that

[FireJimCaldwell]

It is our very own Mcshay vs. Kiper skirmish.

[oldunclemark]

and Heck I can name a year he completely missed in the entire draft (2000, also 2005 is in my opinion debatable) and a few other seasons he hit on 1-2

But he built a team that made the playoffs in what....10-11 consecutive years...

With 10 wins or more every year....

Peyton didnt play defense

[oldunclemark]

It is our very own Mcshay vs. Kiper skirmish.

can I be Kiper?...Love the hair.

[FireJimCaldwell]

can I be Kiper?...Love the hair.

First come first served. You called it. Enjoy the hair.

[Gavin]

The center cannot be the product of the quarterback...It doesnt work that way.

Saturday was all-pro...

Bracket started and was a defensive team captain in the Super Bowl..he was more than all-right

Elite is just one of those words ESPN wears out

IF REGGIE WAYNE - 11,000 yards...73 TDs

retierd today....He would be elected to the Pro football hall-of-Fame.

Most everyone who has watched his entire career agrees on that

How many people would you say watched Reggie Waynes entire career whos not a Colts fan? not alot

Brackett is a middle linebacker, alot of times those are the defensive team captains, they have a view of everything on the field, Rob Morris I believe started in one our Super Bowl runs to if I remember right, and he certainly wasnt nothing special, Peyton took them their