Kevin Thomas

[atapcl]

In high school Kevin was a Super Prep and Rivals top 100. He was expected to be a star at USC. In 2005,his freshman year at USC, he played in 3 games but missed most of the season with Mononucleosis. In 2006 he played in 4 games but sprained his ankle and then broke his foot missing the rest of the season. He redshirted in 2007 due to shoulder surgery from spring training. He played in all his games in 2008 and 2009 but only started a couple. He had knee surgery his rookie year with the Colts and missed the entire year. Maybe his rookie year on IR was a learning experience. He came back in 2011 and played the entire season. He seemed to be a good cover corner on his USC game tape but was terrible last year in his first professional season. I believe he is our fastest CB (Bethea is fastest DB). If he can stay healthy and if our DB coach can get him to use the proper technique for this defense maybe he will be a solid starting corner this year. Maybe man coverage is his skill set and not cover 2 zone.

[ar1888]

To my knowledge he never has payed man to man coverage. He played cover 2 last year, and was a press coverage corner at USC. Press coverage in a deeper cover 2. Im not feeling very confident about him, but I hope he proves me wrong.

[Gavin]

Sounds like injury prone as well,Great 3rd round draft pick Polian

[Smonroe]

I don't think we'll know how good he and Rucker are until they start playing in this D. We don't know if it was coaching/scheme holding them back last year, or talent.

Most writers say we have the worst D backfield in the league. They may be right, with Bethea our only proven player. Or it may have been the "cushion" they were taught to allow in the T2.

[21isSuperman]

I thought he had tons of potential coming out of college. I thought I read that if he could stay healthy, he would be a solid bump and run/press corner

[Gavin]

I don't think we'll know how good he and Rucker are until they start playing in this D. We don't know if it was coaching/scheme holding them back last year, or talent.

Most writers say we have the worst D backfield in the league. They may be right, with Bethea our only proven player. Or it may have been the "cushion" they were taught to allow in the T2.

Thomas played alot of Nickel in college he isnt an every down player he is to brittle, and Rucker had a total of 6 interceptions at Michigan State in 4 years, he's got nickel corner written all over him

[coltsguy510]

I thought he had tons of potential coming out of college. I thought I read that if he could stay healthy, he would be a solid bump and run/press corner

Have you always been a moderator? I never even noticed if you have been lol.

[21isSuperman]

Have you always been a moderator? I never even noticed if you have been lol.

not always. I've been one for a while now, but I haven't been a moderator as long (nor as good) as any of the other mods

[coltsguy510]

not always. I've been one for a while now, but I haven't been a moderator as long (nor as good) as any of the other mods

I bet that you are just as good.

[Smonroe]

Thomas played alot of Nickel in college he isnt an every down player he is to brittle, and Rucker had a total of 6 interceptions at Michigan State in 4 years, he's got nickel corner written all over him

We must lead the league in five and dime CBs. Where's Tim Jennings when you need him...never mind.

[Gavin]

We must lead the league in five and dime CBs. Where's Tim Jennings when you need him...never mind.

lol I think with what we got on the roster at Corner now he would be our automatic #1

[Superman]

I suppose it won't make a difference, because I've mentioned it before and it's had little effect, but Kevin Thomas had a fine year last season. Made a few mistakes, and the scheme we ran neutered his ability to actually play the position (same with all the other corners), but in the few instances that he was allowed to run with his man, he generally stuck with him. The biggest play he gave up all season was on a wheel route where he got cut off by his own teammate, and then he ran his man down after the catch. He has great potential to be a good corner for us.

[Gavin]

I suppose it won't make a difference, because I've mentioned it before and it's had little effect, but Kevin Thomas had a fine year last season. Made a few mistakes, and the scheme we ran neutered his ability to actually play the position (same with all the other corners), but in the few instances that he was allowed to run with his man, he generally stuck with him. The biggest play he gave up all season was on a wheel route where he got cut off by his own teammate, and then he ran his man down after the catch. He has great potential to be a good corner for us.

He cant stay healthy and even coming out of college he was a Zone Corner not Man Corner, also not a guy thats going to get ya many interceptions

[funktacious2]

I don't suspect there to be a clear No.2 coming out of camp. I see us switching our number 2 corner a few times throughout the season.

[Smitto]

I really believe Thomas and Rucker are the best cover corners the colts have and Rucker especially is a really physical corner... he's like a Cromartie just a bit slower and better at tackling.

[Gavin]

we shall see, I have seen they are both good in tackling but not when it comes to interceptions and reading and reacting, they werent in college either which tells me its not just the system

[coltsfanatic24]

hopefully thomas can have a great year in the new hybrid defense

[mvbighead]

we shall see, I have seen they are both good in tackling but not when it comes to interceptions and reading and reacting, they werent in college either which tells me its not just the system

But if they played cover 2 the whole time (Thomas specifically), how did you determine it wasn't the system?

To me, INT "potential" is not always about the corner, but generally more about the opportunity. That includes field time, and the quality of the rest of your defense. You put Champ Bailey in his prime on the #1 side on our defense any of the past 3-4 years, and his numbers would go down considerably. We were always having trouble stopping the run, and if teams could hold down Freeney/Mathis, we had no pressure on the inside.

You look at the top "interceptors" of last season, and they all were members of defenses that had a solid front 7 (whether in the 3-4 or 4-3). To me, watching the highlights of any game (which includes INTs), at least half the time, the INT was the result of a poor throw by the QB (caused by the pressure from the front 7). There are a handful of INTs that are well beyond that, such as the Cromartie one hander over Wayne, but the majority seem to be an errant pass caused by pressure. So to me, you take Thomas, Rucker, or Powers, and you get them to do whatever it is that they do best (which we haven't been doing to this point), and you then work on the front 7 (which Pagano seems to be doing with scheme and bringing in some big, powerful guys). The INTs will follow.

But, for me, to see someone comment on a corner's INT potential, I don't buy it. Sure, there are great corners out there such as Revis, Bailey, etc., but Revis wasn't in the top ten, and Bailey isn't even listed on the first page of results (about 50 players). Both are excellent corners, and both can intercept the ball like no one's business, but the INTs are far easier to come by when you have a solid front 7.

[Gavin]

But if they played cover 2 the whole time (Thomas specifically), how did you determine it wasn't the system?

To me, INT "potential" is not always about the corner, but generally more about the opportunity. That includes field time, and the quality of the rest of your defense. You put Champ Bailey in his prime on the #1 side on our defense any of the past 3-4 years, and his numbers would go down considerably. We were always having trouble stopping the run, and if teams could hold down Freeney/Mathis, we had no pressure on the inside.

You look at the top "interceptors" of last season, and they all were members of defenses that had a solid front 7 (whether in the 3-4 or 4-3). To me, watching the highlights of any game (which includes INTs), at least half the time, the INT was the result of a poor throw by the QB (caused by the pressure from the front 7). There are a handful of INTs that are well beyond that, such as the Cromartie one hander over Wayne, but the majority seem to be an errant pass caused by pressure. So to me, you take Thomas, Rucker, or Powers, and you get them to do whatever it is that they do best (which we haven't been doing to this point), and you then work on the front 7 (which Pagano seems to be doing with scheme and bringing in some big, powerful guys). The INTs will follow.

But, for me, to see someone comment on a corner's INT potential, I don't buy it. Sure, there are great corners out there such as Revis, Bailey, etc., but Revis wasn't in the top ten, and Bailey isn't even listed on the first page of results (about 50 players). Both are excellent corners, and both can intercept the ball like no one's business, but the INTs are far easier to come by when you have a solid front 7.

Thomas has almost always been a Corner that looks to bat the ball down, he is very good at blitzing and tackling which is great, Also perhaps his biggest problem is injuries hes their isnt alot to judge from but from the little highlights I found on him he looks to be good in press coverage, bats the ball away, I've said in a earlier post or two that I may be wrong about our Corners and they may be better man corners then zone but I have yet to see it

[Gavin]

But if they played cover 2 the whole time (Thomas specifically), how did you determine it wasn't the system?

To me, INT "potential" is not always about the corner, but generally more about the opportunity. That includes field time, and the quality of the rest of your defense. You put Champ Bailey in his prime on the #1 side on our defense any of the past 3-4 years, and his numbers would go down considerably. We were always having trouble stopping the run, and if teams could hold down Freeney/Mathis, we had no pressure on the inside.

You look at the top "interceptors" of last season, and they all were members of defenses that had a solid front 7 (whether in the 3-4 or 4-3). To me, watching the highlights of any game (which includes INTs), at least half the time, the INT was the result of a poor throw by the QB (caused by the pressure from the front 7). There are a handful of INTs that are well beyond that, such as the Cromartie one hander over Wayne, but the majority seem to be an errant pass caused by pressure. So to me, you take Thomas, Rucker, or Powers, and you get them to do whatever it is that they do best (which we haven't been doing to this point), and you then work on the front 7 (which Pagano seems to be doing with scheme and bringing in some big, powerful guys). The INTs will follow.

But, for me, to see someone comment on a corner's INT potential, I don't buy it. Sure, there are great corners out there such as Revis, Bailey, etc., but Revis wasn't in the top ten, and Bailey isn't even listed on the first page of results (about 50 players). Both are excellent corners, and both can intercept the ball like no one's business, but the INTs are far easier to come by when you have a solid front 7.

we have had Freeney and Mathis for a long time now, we havent had decent defensive tackles up till now but Freeney and Mathis have put plenty of pressure on the ball, now alot of the problems we have had are we havent put alot of pressure on the quarterback besides Freeney and Mathis as well as the 8-10-12 yard cushion, Now with that said, Thomas is much better at blitzing the quarterback , He looks to bat the ball down (which is good), is very good in press coverage, Now with the new scheme and if he actually stays healthy I admit I could be wrong but the highlights however brief from him playing at USC show he doesnt read the quarterbacks eyes well

[mvbighead]

we have had Freeney and Mathis for a long time now, we havent had decent defensive tackles up till now but Freeney and Mathis have put plenty of pressure on the ball, now alot of the problems we have had are we havent put alot of pressure on the quarterback besides Freeney and Mathis as well as the 8-10-12 yard cushion, Now with that said, Thomas is much better at blitzing the quarterback , He looks to bat the ball down (which is good), is very good in press coverage, Now with the new scheme and if he actually stays healthy I admit I could be wrong but the highlights however brief from him playing at USC show he doesnt read the quarterbacks eyes well

You said Freeney and Mathis in your first 3 sentences. The funny thing about that, is they have pretty much been 50% of our defense over the past 8 or more years. 2 guys that make generate 50% of the production of an 11 man squad. Problem is, it's generally only them save for a year or two when we had a decent DT (Simon and Booger).

There is simply not enough tape on Thomas for anyone to know what he is capable of. He hasn't played enough here, and apparently not enough at USC either. The Colts are simply going to have to make do with what they have. I for one am happy that these guys (Rucker and Thomas) will get a chance. Thomas seems to fit the style of man corner, but it simply hasn't been the scheme he's been in, which I assume changed when he was at USC when they hired the Kiffins. He likely has some talent, but he's been brought into the Cover 2 scheme and it clearly hasn't suited him.

But the comment about him being a better blitzer? What, did you find a highlight or two where he did that or something? Suddenly that means he's a better blitzer than cover corner? Should we move him to safety because he's blitz successfully once or twice? I don't buy any of that, by the way. I find that to be a scheme or twitch in the defensive playbook to catch a QB off guard. Problem is, the defensive scheme the Colts have ran for the past 8 years has been:

"Hey, Freeney, Mathis, get to the QB. That's your job. That's all you have to do. Everybody else... pick up what's left. Run to the ball carrier and gang tackle with speed."

It was never really a scheme. It never really fooled anyone. Mathis and Freeney would almost always beat their blocker once or twice a game. Manning would dominate most games in TOP and points scored, which would leave opponents scrambling to try to air it out, which would allow Freeney and Mathis to do what they do best.

Hopefully, Pagano installs something that resembles an actual defense this year. Something that has more parts than just two pass rushers. In any case, if the new scheme works, I imagine we'll see improvement in a lot of players, not just our corner.

[21isSuperman]

I bet that you are just as good.

Thanks. We have a really great team of mods, and I'm happy to be a part of it. Our entire forum is the best forum I've ever been a part of thanks to all the great members and all the solid discussion that goes on

[Gavin]

You said Freeney and Mathis in your first 3 sentences. The funny thing about that, is they have pretty much been 50% of our defense over the past 8 or more years. 2 guys that make generate 50% of the production of an 11 man squad. Problem is, it's generally only them save for a year or two when we had a decent DT (Simon and Booger).

There is simply not enough tape on Thomas for anyone to know what he is capable of. He hasn't played enough here, and apparently not enough at USC either. The Colts are simply going to have to make do with what they have. I for one am happy that these guys (Rucker and Thomas) will get a chance. Thomas seems to fit the style of man corner, but it simply hasn't been the scheme he's been in, which I assume changed when he was at USC when they hired the Kiffins. He likely has some talent, but he's been brought into the Cover 2 scheme and it clearly hasn't suited him.

But the comment about him being a better blitzer? What, did you find a highlight or two where he did that or something? Suddenly that means he's a better blitzer than cover corner? Should we move him to safety because he's blitz successfully once or twice? I don't buy any of that, by the way. I find that to be a scheme or twitch in the defensive playbook to catch a QB off guard. Problem is, the defensive scheme the Colts have ran for the past 8 years has been:

"Hey, Freeney, Mathis, get to the QB. That's your job. That's all you have to do. Everybody else... pick up what's left. Run to the ball carrier and gang tackle with speed."

It was never really a scheme. It never really fooled anyone. Mathis and Freeney would almost always beat their blocker once or twice a game. Manning would dominate most games in TOP and points scored, which would leave opponents scrambling to try to air it out, which would allow Freeney and Mathis to do what they do best.

Hopefully, Pagano installs something that resembles an actual defense this year. Something that has more parts than just two pass rushers. In any case, if the new scheme works, I imagine we'll see improvement in a lot of players, not just our corner.

I agree with everything you said, we havent seen enough of him to judge but that may be the actual problem, he cant stay healthy, with that said I dont see him as a shutdown Corner or Powers or Rucker, Im going for Amerson if he stays healthy up to next years draft

[vinatierifan4]

A while ago I claimed that Kevin Thomas wasn't that great, and just didn't seem to have great potential either, I got blasted for that pretty badly. Now everyone's eyes are starting to open.

[Gavin]

The tape dont lie on these guys, Amerson can put any one of our current Corners to shame

[HarassedOffTheSite]

One things for sure. They got a look at them all this week.

If we've got issues there, then look for a move (you just saw it happen at TE).

If there is no move...then it is safe to assume the Coaching staff and GM don't see a big problem (in spite of some fans screaming the sky is falling).

[Gavin]

One things for sure. They got a look at them all this week.

If we've got issues there, then look for a move (you just saw it happen at TE).

If there is no move...then it is safe to assume the Coaching staff and GM don't see a big problem (in spite of some fans screaming the sky is falling).

the moves for this season might be in place in bringing in Chism but bigger moves then that i doubt will happen until next years draft, I expect us to look at Corner early and Linebacker

[Creekside]

Thomas is fast, at least....maybe he can develop into a good player.....last year Jones-Drew broke a long run and looked like he would score for sure....Thomas ran him down from quite a ways away....I remember saying to myself..."who was that?"....

[HarassedOffTheSite]

the moves for this season might be in place

And they might not. Regardless, a lack of movement is not an indication that we're waiting until next year...it can just as easily (and logically) be explained as a reflection of the fact that the Coaching staff and GM know there is not a big a need at DB.

(next year's draft) I expect us to look at Corner early and Linebacker

You should not expect that at all. Because we do not draft position. The GM of the Indianapolis Colts and the Man in Charge of our draft (the only person whose opinion matters on this) is on the record as saying we draft BPA.

Nothing personal but the seemingly absolute cerebral/emotional/pet rock bondage many fans operate in can be scary.

"Reality be darned! I want a CB!"

[HarassedOffTheSite]

If anything, Grigs behavior shows that he uses FA to go after positional "need" and the draft itself is BPA.

Am I the only one seeing this? I feel like I'm on crazy pills.

I invented the Piano key necktie!

[Gavin]

And they might not. Regardless, a lack of movement is not an indication that we're waiting until next year...it can just as easily (and logically) be explained as a reflection of the fact that the Coaching staff and GM know there is not a big a need at DB.

You should not expect that at all. Because we do not draft position. The GM of the Indianapolis Colts and the Man in Charge of our draft (the only person whose opinion matters on this) is on the record as saying we draft BPA.

Nothing personal but the seemingly absolute cerebral/emotional/pet rock bondage many fans operate in can be scary.

"Reality be darned! I want a CB!"

yes he is on record as saying that this year, and why is that? cause we have so many needs, for example, we have Andrew Luck, if Matt Barkley is expected to be the number 1 player going in the draft next year you dont draft him because he is the best player available, why? because he isnt the best player available at a position of need, you dont keep stacking a ton of talent at a position were you already have starting talent you go out and get starting talent elsewhere, if their wasnt a need at Corner then why did he bring in Chism, it certainly wasnt just for depth, he brought him in for competition

[Gavin]

If anything, Grigs behavior shows that he uses FA to go after positional "need" and the draft itself is BPA.

Am I the only one seeing this? I feel like I'm on crazy pills.

I invented the Piano key necktie!

if thats the case thats bad drafting strategy unless like this year we had so many needs, any position almost would have been an upgrade,

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Brother, you're grasping at straws. And for the umpteenth time...of course we don't continue to stack up at one position. C'mon man.

[Gavin]

Brother, you're grasping at straws. And for the umpteenth time...of course we don't continue to stack up at one position. C'mon man.

thats what you sound like you think were gonna do, we do in fact have needs, if no other reason then Dwight Freeney isnt getting any younger, and our Corners (to this point have been terrible)

[Blackhawk4]

A while ago I claimed that Kevin Thomas wasn't that great, and just didn't seem to have great potential either, I got blasted for that pretty badly. Now everyone's eyes are starting to open.

After playing one full season in the NFL you can't judge what he's going to be for the rest of his career. You deserved to get blasted when you don't have much to go off of and are saying X player isn't that great or has potential. They play in the NFL for a reason. While the chance of him being great is as slim as it is for every player in the NFL, he showed he can play.

[Coffeedrinker]

I suppose it won't make a difference, because I've mentioned it before and it's had little effect, but Kevin Thomas had a fine year last season. Made a few mistakes, and the scheme we ran neutered his ability to actually play the position (same with all the other corners), but in the few instances that he was allowed to run with his man, he generally stuck with him. The biggest play he gave up all season was on a wheel route where he got cut off by his own teammate, and then he ran his man down after the catch. He has great potential to be a good corner for us.

I agree. I see a lot of good things in KT:

Positives:

• He can really get on the hip of a WR and stay with him
  
• Nice long arms to reach around for the deflection.
  
• Good timing and reaction when the ball is in the area.
  
• Excellent in run support
  
• Good but not great short area quickness
  
• Excellent speed
  

Negatives

• Will get fooled by the double moves
  
• Sometimes watches the QBs eyes too much and loses track of receiver in zone
  
• Doesn't have the elite agility required for a zone CB.
  
• Injury history in college
  

I watched this guy a lot at USC and he just gets better every quarter. He's smart and while I haven't seen him enough to say "never", I have not watched a game where he made the same mistake twice. And I agree with Brian Casserly, Grigson and company watched a lot of film, Pagano made a name for himself as a DB coach, if they did not think they had something to work with with KT, Rucker and Powers they would have probably signed a veteran FA or given up one of the 7th round picks for Asante Samuel, a player with whom Grigson is familiar.

People also never consider that players can and do improve. So many people wanted Pagano to bring Webb with him. But last year was his third in the league and his first year as a starter. The two years before that he looked good as a primary nickel CB but looked replaceable

[Coffeedrinker]

thats what you sound like you think were gonna do, we do in fact have needs, if no other reason then Dwight Freeney isnt getting any younger, and our Corners (to this point have been terrible)

Is there any player in the NFL getting younger?

[Gavin]

Is there any player in the NFL getting younger?

point being you dont try to fit a square peg into a round hole especially when that 'square peg" is 32 and making 14 million dollars but I have actually excepted the Colts are going to try to do that but it comes at a hefty price,

[Coffeedrinker]

point being you dont try to fit a square peg into a round hole especially when that 'square peg" is 32 and making 14 million dollars but I have actually excepted the Colts are going to try to do that but it comes at a hefty price,

Really? See, I would not have got that from the not getting any younger comment.

But let me ask you something in all seriousness because you want to be a scout. A scout's job is not to go to the GM or coach and say, "This is a great player I think we should draft/sign him." A scout's job is to talk with the coaches and find out what skills, attributes, intangibles, etc they think are important and find players that are highly rated in the most important categories. So, with that in mind, if the coach has made comments about Freeney, what a difference maker he is, how the coach wants to use him, the role the coach envisions for him, why would you insist he is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole? Here is a quote from Coach about Freeney and Mathis

“I just know those guys have been game-wreckers for a long time,” said Pagano when speaking at the NFL Combine. “I know offenses have to account for both those guys. First and foremost, we’re going to make sure that we put both those guys in positions to make plays.

“I don’t think it would be very smart on my part or anybody else’s part to not make sure that doesn’t happen. Both those guys are great players. They have been great players here for a long time. Those guys are Colts through and through. We fully expect to have them here for as long as we can.”

Doesn't sound like a square peg in a round hole at all. Game wreckers is a strong phrase for a player, sounds like he is going to use them at what they are best at doing.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

thats what you sound like you think were gonna do

If what you meant to say is that you took my comments to mean that I believe we're gonna draft QBs for the next ten years, then that is an issue you have with logical thought. Don't project that onto me. The fact that we're not going to draft another QB with the first selection in the 2013 draft does not magically translate into we're somehow going to default into drafting for position. It simply means we draft BPA that is not a QB. And frankly I find it embarrassing to have to explain that to some people. Really dude?

we do in fact have needs

I have not said that we don't have needs. That has nothing to do with anything I have said; that we do not draft for position. I also said that the only person whose opinion matters has said unequivocally that we draft BPA. I went on to say Grigs behavior shows that he uses FA to go after positional "need" and the draft itself is BPA.

...and our Corners (to this point have been terrible)

That may or may not be true. Just like it may or may not be true that their poor showings were the result of a poorly devised defense that put them out of position to make plays (the latter conclusion being bolstered by the fact that the man who was in charge of devising the defense and putting them in positions to make plays was fired during the season). Regardless "apparently" neither the Coaching staff nor Management agree with you...or at a minimum do not agree enough to go out and spend FA money on DBs (many of which were available).

So...if neither the Coaching staff nor Management think we have a DB problem...and we do not draft for position, you have no reason at all (past your personal hopes & dreams, like many other Colts fans) to think that we are going after a CB early in next year's draft.

You guys were screaming prior to this draft that we needed one and what happened? So why start chanting it again? To me that flies in the face of reality and makes no sense.