T.Y Hilton vs Austin Collie

[OZOC01]

Hilton in the backfield has to be part of a 2 back formation that the Saints ran a lot of plays using Bush and Thomas or Sproles and Thomas with in the backfield. He cannot be the only one in the backfield. The difference is, instead of a 2nd back, it is a speedy wideout.

One thing that did occur to me - Arians used to go 4 WRs in Pitt sometimes with Big Ben on an empty backfield? Will we even dare to run such a play with a rookie QB? I think not, or let me paraphrase, I hope not.

Actually, Luck with an empty backfield would be intriguing for quick-hit, no-huddle offense. Let Luck use his defense reading ability and dink and dunk to: Wayne/Collie/Fleener/Hilton/Avery. If the O-line cannot block for the 2 seconds required, then we will know what next year's first round pick will be used for...

[chad72]

I think Hilton will return punts as well but as his influence in the offense grows he will see less time there and eventually do it when we need a big return.

I do have the feeling someone else might return kickoffs while Hilton does PR and I definitely do not want to see Devin Moore IR episode again due to a kickoff return. Maybe the momentum of a greater running start for KR coverage units does pose a greater risk.

Doesn't Brazill also have KR experience? So does Deji Karim that we picked up, right?

[chad72]

Actually, Luck with an empty backfield would be intriguing for quick-hit, no-huddle offense. Let Luck use his defense reading ability and dink and dunk to: Wayne/Collie/Fleener/Hilton/Avery. If the O-line cannot block for the 2 seconds required, then we will know what next year's first round pick will be used for...

Peyton did not go no huddle as much till year two or three, if I remember right, and definitely not empty backfield. They may have a 2 minute offense out of shotgun with no huddle but it might still involve an RB in the backfield.

Once Luck gets real comfortable, much later in the year, for no huddle, we can go max protect with 6 OLs, 4 WRs with empty backfield and shotgun formations for Luck, that is the only scenario I see where we can even take a chance with an empty backfield.

[HtownColt]

I do have the feeling someone else might return kickoffs while Hilton does PR and I definitely do not want to see Devin Moore IR episode again due to a kickoff return. Maybe the momentum of a greater running start for KR coverage units does pose a greater risk.

Doesn't Brazill also have KR experience? So does Deji Karim that we picked up, right?

yea but they have to make the 53 man roster first

[chad72]

yea but they have to make the 53 man roster first

We will see who gets the chance to do those returns in pre-season, and hopefully someone seizes the bull by the horns.

[Rich Cannon]

arians uses his receivers ina lot of different ways, from what ive seen in pitt. honestly i dont think they will compete for the slot job, i think deppending on the package is who will ber on the field. honestly im excited about donnie avery and hilton, thats the speed we havent had in years.

Exactly Austin Collie is our number 2 option no questions. TY. Hilton is going to be competing to make the roster, hes not

guaranteed. My personal opinion of him is he will have a spot returning kicks and punts

[Superman]

I've recently watched the games from 2010 when Collie was starting and working on the outside. I'll just say again, he'll be productive no matter where we line him up. He's most definitely our second best receiver, and I'm sure we'll use him as such.

[Coffeedrinker]

The key question might be - Donnie Avery vs T.Y.Hilton, One could make an argument for using T.Y.Hilton on the outside to take the safeties away. It is not an automatic that T.Y.Hilton will be used only in the slot.

This, IMO, is the reason Hilton was drafted, not to compete with Collie directly but to serve the same role as the FA the Colts signed who had caught 4 passes in the last two years in case he doesn't pan out (which is very possible)

[OJl]

Hilton and Collie won't be competing for anything. Both guys will play a LOT. In our old system, the WRs stayed put and we didn't do a lot of motions or exotic packages. Reggie has already said he's been told he will be motioned and moved all over the place. I expect the same for Austin and TY and whoever else is playing a lot.

As for Collie being the second WR, don't discount it. BEFORE all of the concussions, I remember Collie taking snaps as an outside receiver and doing very well.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Exactly Austin Collie is our number 2 option no questions.

Yeah, no. He's our slot.

He's not going to outrun Avery. He has no advantage of being in the same offense for years or catching from the same QB for years so the playbook and route running is there for both to take.

There is no discernible advantage Collie has going into preseason. He is what he has always been for us; the slot. JMO

[dgambill]

I like the potential of our receiving core. I think both those young receivers have the ability to play. I think Reggie and Collie are solid dependable targets that Luck won't have to worry if they will be where they are suppose to and the young guys have the big play ability to make something happen after the catch or by making a play on the ball. Avery perhaps even in opening up the top by being that deep threat. Fleener actually fits into this receiving core very well as he is less like a TE and more of a big WR. Allen will play that more conventional TE position.

I know a lot of people feel Fleener will be that security blanket but I actually think Allen will be that check down proto-typical TE and Fleener will be more a threat down the seam.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

As for Collie being the second WR, don't discount it. BEFORE all of the concussions, I remember Collie taking snaps as an outside receiver and doing very well.

Yeah. And the faster guy...with worse hands...held onto the #2. Collie is a slot.

[Smitto]

I have a bad feeling that Colts FO wants to have him compete with Austin Collie in the slot. I really hope they keep Collie around, he has always been a solid receiver. Personally, I don't think Hilton has the size to be a starting WR, but could be used from time to time. What do you think? Did they just draft Collie's replacement or are they just bringing him in to serve in the return game? I'm hearing rumblings of this already on twitter.

You should know that when it comes to size it doesn't matter in the NFL... look at Darren sproles or desean Jackson..... if Hilton can hang on to the ball n make the catches then he'll be a huge asset

[dgambill]

Yeah, no. He's our slot.

He's not going to outrun Avery. He has no advantage of being in the same offense for years or catching from the same QB for years so the playbook and route running is there for both to take.

There is no discernible advantage Collie has going into preseason. He is what he has always been for us; the slot. JMO

He may not have an advantage but he is simply a better route runner and has better hands than anyone else outside Reggie on the team. Collie is simply a better WR. Slot or Outside he has played both and played both well. I don't really want to pit players against one another but to me it is pretty easy to watch the tape and see that Collie is legit. He will be in the starting lineup...somewhere. Wether slot or not I think Arians will move several people into that role including Fleener, Hilton, Reggie, and Austin. I don't believe Austin is limited to just the slot. He has the skills to play on the outside...including speed. I would argue that he is faster than Reggie...and certainly reggie isn't the fastest guy yet he plays out there. It is all about running your routes and working the defense. I think Austin will be fine where ever he is lined up.

[Gavin]

Im sure they will all have a part and come in at different times

[Rich Cannon]

Yeah, no. He's our slot.

He's not going to outrun Avery. He has no advantage of being in the same offense for years or catching from the same QB for years so the playbook and route running is there for both to take.

There is no discernible advantage Collie has going into preseason. He is what he has always been for us; the slot. JMO

Very true, what i mean by number 2 option i mean hes our x or y in sets without a 3rd wr, and everyone need to get this silly idea out of their heads that Collie is just a slot guy. Complete foolishness. Hes a WR he can play in the slot or out. IMO hes proven to be successful in the past and is our number 2 option till further notice.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

He may not have an advantage but he is simply a better route runner and has better hands than anyone else outside Reggie on the team.

That is your opinion.

Collie is simply a better WR.

Same as above.

Slot or Outside he has played both and played both well.

Has nothing to do with the current circumstances.

I don't really want to pit players against one another but to me it is pretty easy to watch the tape and see that Collie is legit.

That is what football is. Player against player competing for positions. And nobody is saying Collie is not somehow "legit". But he is not going to be the #2 receiver (IMO) on this team. He is not fast enough.

He will be in the starting lineup...somewhere.

He may well. I don't doubt he has the ability.

He has the skills to play on the outside...including speed.

Not when compared to Avery.

I would argue that he is faster than Reggie

So. He is not a better receiver or route runner than Reggie. Let that go.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

what i mean by number 2 option i mean hes our x or y in sets without a 3rd wr,

Yeah, I doubt it. That'll more than likely be Avery. If you're the #2....you're the #2.

and everyone need to get this silly idea out of their heads that Collie is just a slot guy.

that is all he has been in the NFL and that is all it appears he will be on "this" offense.

Hes a WR he can play in the slot or out.

Good for him. But he'll need Avery to lose the #2 more than he has the ability to take it.

IMO hes proven to be successful in the past and is our number 2 option till further notice.

IYO indeed. ;)

[YOUR GM]

All this talk about Donnie Avery already being penciled in as a starter is ridiculous. As of right now, he falls in the category of camp body until he's proven anything. Reminds me of last off-season when everyone got so hyped when the Colts went out and got a washed-up Tommie Harris, only to have him not even make the final roster when the season started.

Let's see how camp plays out before we start assuming who's playing where.

[HtownColt]

smh Austin Collie not being able to line up as a outside receiver is ridiculous thats like saying a tight end cant spread out and play in the slot

[Gavin]

smh Austin Collie not being able to line up as a outside receiver is ridiculous thats like saying a tight end cant spread out and play in the slot

Tight Ends can do that but I wouldnt recommend it for alot of them, I think Collie will be our #2 on the depth chart but they will all line up in different spots at different times

[Coffeedrinker]

All this talk about Donnie Avery already being penciled in as a starter is ridiculous. As of right now, he falls in the category of camp body until he's proven anything. Reminds me of last off-season when everyone got so hyped when the Colts went out and got a washed-up Tommie Harris, only to have him not even make the final roster when the season started.

Let's see how camp plays out before we start assuming who's playing where.

I completely agree. The people that think Avery is a #2 WR are basing their opinions on their college scouting reports rather than basing it on watching them play and, you know, knowledge of the game of football.

[HtownColt]

I completely agree. The people that think Avery is a #2 WR are basing their opinions on their college scouting reports rather than basing it on watching them play and, you know, knowledge of the game of football.

if their going off college stats T.Y. Hilton is better than Avery in every category coming out of college

[Superman]

But he is not going to be the #2 receiver (IMO) on this team. He is not fast enough.

He's as fast as plenty of #2 receivers in the league. He's as fast as Reggie. He's run past many corners in this league already, with or without Manning throwing to him. He ran past Devin McCourty, on the outside, last season.

So. He is not a better receiver or route runner than Reggie. Let that go.

So, even though Collie is as fast as Reggie, his speed precludes him from being a #2 receiver. But Reggie can be a #1?

Austin Collie is not slow. He doesn't have 4.3 speed, but he's fast enough to play on the outside. I don't know what everyone means when they say #2 receiver, but for me the #2 receiver refers to the guy who is on the field in two-receiver sets. When we use two tight ends and a running back, it will be Reggie and another receiver, and I think that other receiver should be Collie. He's shown his ability to get open and catch the ball, whether it's in two- or three-receiver sets, whether it's on the outside or in the slot, whether Manning is throwing to him or someone else. He's easily our second best receiver (and I felt this way even when Garcon was here), and he should get the reps that a #2 gets.

If Donnie Avery stays healthy and shows that he deserves that spot more than Austin does, then I'm all for it. But that seems like a leap in logic. Avery was pegged as a reserve receiver / return specialist coming into the league, a player who didn't quite develop as a pass catcher in college until his senior year. His first two years in the league, that's the role he played, without any indication that he should be a #2 receiver or could handle that duty in the NFL.

The job should go to whoever performs better, and it should be an open competition all year. But I don't get why people continue to downgrade Austin Collie. He's a really good receiver.

[bmax71]

I've recently watched the games from 2010 when Collie was starting and working on the outside. I'll just say again, he'll be productive no matter where we line him up. He's most definitely our second best receiver, and I'm sure we'll use him as such.

I agree with this completely I don't see there being a competition at #2 WR, that will be Collie. I wouldn't be surprised to see a good amount of Hilton either, but Collie will be #2 IMO.

[betheafan41]

I have a bad feeling that Colts FO wants to have him compete with Austin Collie in the slot. I really hope they keep Collie around, he has always been a solid receiver. Personally, I don't think Hilton has the size to be a starting WR, but could be used from time to time. What do you think? Did they just draft Collie's replacement or are they just bringing him in to serve in the return game? I'm hearing rumblings of this already on twitter.

well first you got to ask your self. whos playing the other wide out opposite of Wayne? I wouldnt doubt it if it were collie. and put Hilton in the slot. but in my opinion i think they drafted hilton to use him in special teams to return kicks and punts.

[dgambill]

Just based off his skills and production I expect Collie to be the #2 receiver. Meaning if we have any two wide sets he would likely be the other wide receiver out there with Reggie. Wether he plays slot or on the outside with Reggie it won't matter. I think he will play both. It will depend on where Bruce wants to fit people into this offense but I would imagine he would play in the slot most of the time but get moved out wide in certain sets when TY comes in. I would be very surprised to see Avery starting or getting much playing time by the end of the season unless we have injuries. I think we will see both Hilton and Brazill split time. Brazill on the outside and Hilton in the slot. In either case when one is on the field Austin would shift over to the slot or outside. Thats just my opinion...we all want all our receivers to be great but I put Avery at the bottom of the receiving core based on his injuries and his history when he actually played. Even when healthy he didn't do much.

[21isSuperman]

If I remember right, Collie did spend some time lined up on the outside a few years ago and he did well. Hilton and Collie are two different players; Collie is a good route running with solid hands and is a possession type of receiver. Hilton is a speedster who will mostly run deep patterns.

[HGRekks]

Yeah, no. He's our slot.

I won't argue the rest, but this point seems to be a common misconception. The guy that mans the slot can very well be the #2. Even the #1 can man the slot. Hines Ward and Wes Welker both man the slot in 3 receiver sets (well, Hines did in his prime). I think you're saying he'll be the #3 and strictly work the slot, but he can be the #2 and work it. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[Creekside]

Grigson said, "He can play the slot, he can play outside.".....there are going to be multiple formations depending on who they are playing and what kind of defense in being run......no one knows right now, not even the coaches, exactly how it will all shake out ..................similar to the O-line. Alot of second year guys and some new vets. Who's going to play where? We'll know the answer in September.

[Jay305]

I think Collie will stay in the slot and well use T.Y Hilton on the outside to stretch the field. T.Y Hilton will be our Desean Jackson in terms of ability

[FightLikeSin]

well first you got to ask your self. whos playing the other wide out opposite of Wayne? I wouldnt doubt it if it were collie. and put Hilton in the slot. but in my opinion i think they drafted hilton to use him in special teams to return kicks and punts.

My answer to that so far, has got to be Avery opposite Wayne. Collie playing the slot. Hilton played the slot a lot in college, but the guy is like 5'10" 185lbs or something close to that. He can't be taking hits in the middle at that stature. So i'd give the starting position to Collie. But...what do I know? I'm just a fan.

[funktacious2]

I don't know if I agree with the notion that Hilton will only be used in limited situations. Not saying it can't happen, but he's a talented 3rd rounder with potential starting ability.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

He's as fast as plenty of #2 receivers in the league.

We're not talking about other receivers in this league...we're talking about other receivers on this team. And he is not faster than Donnie Avery.

He's as fast as Reggie.

...so! He is not a better route runner or have better hands or more durable than Reggie, so what is your point?

Austin Collie is not slow.

He is slower than Donnie Avery.

If Donnie Avery stays healthy and shows that he deserves that spot more than Austin does, then I'm all for it.

Sounds good to me.

The job should go to whoever performs better

Sounds good to me.

I don't get why people continue to downgrade Austin Collie.

Because he is not faster than Donnie Avery and has no identifiable advantage over Avery. Both are starting from scratch healthy and in a new offense with a new QB, I give the advantage to the guy who can best stretch the field.

Seems pretty clear.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I won't argue the rest. The guy that mans the slot can very well be the #2. Even the #1 can man the slot.

Good, don't. Almost every player in the NFL can play multiple positions. Nevertheless, Collie was the slot last year....and nobody can argue that. If he can stay healthy, he'll be the slot again this year. IMO

[HarassedOffTheSite]

With all that said, if I am the O.C. I move Collie to the #2 for health reasons alone. He cannot stand up to the punishment. But truth be told, if I am the O.C. I want no part of Austin Collie. He has taken too many concussions and as a result is liable to take more. To me that means through no fault of his own, I cannot count on him. Why waste my rookie QB's time developing some sort of rhythm with a guy who runs a reasonable risk of just not being there?

[betheafan41]

My answer to that so far, has got to be Avery opposite Wayne. Collie playing the slot. Hilton played the slot a lot in college, but the guy is like 5'10" 185lbs or something close to that. He can't be taking hits in the middle at that stature. So i'd give the starting position to Collie. But...what do I know? I'm just a fan.

Hilton is the same size as wes welker. Welker plays the slot and outside receiver. and welker has been able to handle the hits.

[FightLikeSin]

Hilton is the same size as wes welker. Welker plays the slot and outside receiver. and welker has been able to handle the hits.

fair enough.

[BrentMc11]

This thread is TY Hilton vs. Austin Collie, but apparently it became Avery vs Collie? 2 things: Lets line up Hilton vs. Avery in a sprint: Hilton wins.

Avery needs to prove himself to me as well. He has done nothing in the NFL to this point. 53 catches with the Rams? Give me a healthy Collie and fresh blood in Hilton any day of the week....Avery WAS fast....line em up!!!

[HtownColt]

Hilton is the same size as wes welker. Welker plays the slot and outside receiver. and welker has been able to handle the hits.

Hilton is bigger or same size than Welker,Steve Smith, Santana moss, Lance moore, Antonio Brown, and emanuel sanders