Food for thought, Nelson

[throwing BBZ]

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-guard-rankings-top-32-2024-nfl-season

 

 Nelson was 1st team All-Pro his 1st 3 seasons, then some injury issues.

Since then I have witnessed him be abused by even backups at times.

 Hopefully he has a healthy 2024 and plays at a high level.

 

 

 

 

[TheNewGuy]

  Well it is hard to argue with what you wrote and couple that with him being the 3rd highest paid guard in the NFL, per pro football network https://www.profootballnetwork.com/who-are-the-highest-paid-guards-in-the-nfl-in-2024/, let's hope he truly is projecting upward to his first three seasons rating...

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-guard-rankings-top-32-2024-nfl-season

 

 Nelson was 1st team All-Pro his 1st 3 seasons, then some injury issues.

Since then I have witnessed him be abused by even backups at times.

 Hopefully he has a healthy 2024 and plays at a high level.

  Now, here comes Homer.

 

 

 

- you rang. Nelson is the least of our problems. Even at 80% healthy he is better than most Guards. I am more worried about LT play and Kelly staying healthy. 

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-guard-rankings-top-32-2024-nfl-season

 

 Nelson was 1st team All-Pro his 1st 3 seasons, then some injury issues.

Since then I have witnessed him be abused by even backups at times.

 Hopefully he has a healthy 2024 and plays at a high level.

  Now, here comes Homer.

 

 

 

He is still one of the best guards in football.   What is the point you are trying to make?

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

He is still one of the best guards in football.   What is the point you are trying to make?

I know, not even Homer with his 70 IQ can figure that out.

[DougDew]

21 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-guard-rankings-top-32-2024-nfl-season

 

 Nelson was 1st team All-Pro his 1st 3 seasons, then some injury issues.

Since then I have witnessed him be abused by even backups at times.

 Hopefully he has a healthy 2024 and plays at a high level.

  Now, here comes Homer.

 

 

 

Its Strausser's fault.  No, its Frank's fault.  No, it was Minshew's fault.  When Pierce can finally "get open", then other players won't be weighted down and will achieve their rightful place.

 

Pass the syrup.

[throwing BBZ]

21 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

He is still one of the best guards in football.   What is the point you are trying to make?

 

  It's just an article. A lot of posters come here to make points. 

 The topic one could conclude, suggests there are Homer's. 

  Perhaps one Homer concludes from this that maybe, it's possible, Nelson isn't any longer an All-Pro and hasn't been for three years. 

 I would say that if he did play like he did before he got paid, he would be more reliable in short yardage, and that could inch us closer to 11 wins.

 I'll be watching him close, as I Always watch our line a lot in slow-mo.

Watching Lombardi's Packers OL as a kid just hooked me on line play.

 

 Anyone interested in CB Play?

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-cornerback-rankings-top-32-ahead-of-the-2024-nfl-season

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  It's just an article. A lot of posters come here to make points. 

 The topic one could conclude, suggests there are Homer's. 

  Perhaps one Homer concludes from this that maybe, it's possible, Nelson isn't any longer an All-Pro and hasn't been for three years. 

 I would say that if he did play like he did before he got paid, he would be more reliable in short yardage, and that could inch us closer to 11 wins.

 I'll be watching him close, as I Always watch our line a lot in slow-mo.

Watching Lombardi's Packers OL as a kid just hooked me on line play.

 

 Anyone interested in CB Play?

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-cornerback-rankings-top-32-ahead-of-the-2024-nfl-season

It isn't about being a Homer, Nelson is still a great player. Name 5 guards better than him out of the 64 starting Guards in the league. I'll wait. 

[IinD]

You know the point of this...

 

Gotta have the #1 guy in the NFL at every position on the squad and fit it all under the cap with like 10M to spare for roster churn.

[2006Coltsbestever]

By the way, why some in here think that PFF is the bible of football blows me away. It is a flawed system, sorry PFF lovers. Having said that, he is 11th according to PFF out of 64 which is still great. Nobody with a straight face is going to tell me Guards like Quinn Meinerz, Wyatt Teller, Kevin Zeitler or Robert Hunt are better than Nelson based on what PFF says. If they do, give me what you are smoking.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

Anyone interested in CB Play?

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-cornerback-rankings-top-32-ahead-of-the-2024-nfl-season

Marlon Humphrey is still going pretty strongly.

[DattMavis]

23 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

- you rang. Nelson is the least of our problems. Even at 80% healthy he is better than most Guards. I am more worried about LT play and Kelly staying healthy. 

I believe Bernhard Raimann was graded quite a bit higher than Q last year, and was the highest graded player on our oline.

I think he's the most underrated player on our team, and maybe the most underrated Tackle in the NFL.

[2006Coltsbestever]

46 minutes ago, DattMavis said:

I believe Bernhard Raimann was graded quite a bit higher than Q last year, and was the highest graded player on our oline.

I think he's the most underrated player on our team, and maybe the most underrated Tackle in the NFL.

Makes my point about PFF. If you ask 99 out of 100 people in the media who the better player is, Raimann or Nelson? They will say Nelson IMO. Raimann isn't bad but he needs to prove more at his position. Nelson is already a proven great. I still don't honestly get the point of this thread other than to talk down about the guy because although Nelson didn't make All-Pro last season, he still is a great player. 

 

It is like making a thread, that Taylor isn't as great as he was in 2021. HE STILL IS GREAT though.

[#12.]

After 3 seasons, people had him in the Hall of Fame.  

 

As it stands three years later, he probably won't sniff it.

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, #12. said:

After 3 seasons, people had him in the Hall of Fame.  

 

As it stands three years later, he probably won't sniff it.

That’s what an injury can do.  Still too early to really know though.  He was all pro 4 out of his first 6 years.  Six time pro bowler.  Still only 28 now in his prime years.  He could play into his 30’s.  Not uncommon for OL.   Still plenty of time to add to his resume.

[NewColtsFan]

So the article you linked has Nelson as the 11th best guard in the NFL.    11th. 
 

And he’s been battling injuries of one type or another since his 4th season.   You saw what Ballard and Steichen did with Leonard.   Maybe they’ll do that someday with Nelson but I wouldn’t hold my breath on that one happening too soon. 
 

Has Q’s performance dropped off?  Yes.  That tells me injuries.  But has it dropped off that far?   No.  Remember, 11th overall.  
 

Oh…. And Nelson, getting abused by backups?   Sounds like multiple times?   This must be the comedy portion of the day.  
 

Two years ago, Nelson got backed up 1-on-1 by a Redskins DL.  There was a replay of one play.  But that DL was one of Washington’s former 1st round draft picks.   It was no shame.  But the Nelson-haters, including at least one in this thread discussion, delighted in Nelson losing that battle.   But losing to backups?   Yeah, no. 

You’ll have to do better than that. 

[Solid84]

I think Nelson is about as good as it gets when it comes to pass blocking. Sure he may lose a snap now and again, but EVERYONE does that. My real concern with Nelson is he's been just a little above average as a run blocker when he was absolutely elite he first 3 seasons.

[DattMavis]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Makes my point about PFF. If you ask 99 out of 100 people in the media who the better player is, Raimann or Nelson? They will say Nelson IMO. Raimann isn't bad but he needs to prove more at his position. Nelson is already a proven great. I still don't honestly get the point of this thread other than to talk down about the guy because although Nelson didn't make All-Pro last season, he still is a great player. 

 

It is like making a thread, that Taylor isn't as great as he was in 2021. HE STILL IS GREAT though.

I'm not talking about career. For his first three years, Q was the most dominant Colts oline player so far in my lifetime. From what I watched, Raimann was better last year. All the grades (not just PFF) I've seen back that up. I still think Q can easily come back and be the best Guard in the league. You said you were worried about LT. LT and LG are the two positions I feel most secure about on our offensive line.

[Tsarquise]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Around here, if you 'AINT' #1 you suck - sometimes I wish some in here would just root for another team, they would be happier it seems. Nothing is good enough for some. Even when we won the SB in 2006/07, it was well we beat Rex Grossman. Give me a break! We also beat Tom Brady.

If you ain't first, you're last! 

 

Ricky Bobby or his dad must be posting in here. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, DattMavis said:

I'm not talking about career. For his first three years, Q was the most dominant Colts oline player so far in my lifetime. From what I watched, Raimann was better last year. All the grades (not just PFF) I've seen back that up. I still think Q can easily come back and be the best Guard in the league. You said you were worried about LT. LT and LG are the two positions I feel most secure about on our offensive line.

Raimann had a good season but I just feel like he needs another one to prove last season was legit. Every season Nelson has been in the league he has either been great or very good.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 6/6/2024 at 12:30 PM, jvan1973 said:

He is still one of the best guards in football.   What is the point you are trying to make?

Point is he is being paid elite hall of fame money is just a very good guard. Like one GM said. U get in trouble when u pay elite money to good players.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Point is he is being paid elite hall of fame money is just a very good guard. Like one GM said. U get in trouble when u pay elite money to good players.

The money Q is getting us no longer Hall of Fame money.   Why?   Because the salary cap is going up so sharply.  
 

That said, if need be, there’s an out after this season.  If Nelson has a poor year, then maybe.   But the year would have to be really bad.  Remember, Q isn’t just a Ballard favorite, he’s also an Irsay favorite.  
 

Nelson still has 4 years left on his deal because of his second contract.   So I suppose anything is possible, but I wouldn’t say it’s likely.   And, don’t rule out a contract restructure if necessary.   The Colts have options.  

[Dingus McGirt]

He’s also a fan favorite.  Not that it matters.

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Point is he is being paid elite hall of fame money is just a very good guard. Like one GM said. U get in trouble when u pay elite money to good players.

The point I see is that much of that syrup we were supposed to have bought in preparation for having so many pancakes has gone wasted.  Judging from Q's run blocking grade, which is omitted, that was always going to be an overbuy from the beginning.

 

But we know it's Strausser's fault, and not because of things that tend to afflict NFL players when they get some age on them.

[MikeCurtis]

I hope he gets healthier,

 

My bigger concern is FS

 

I truly hope that we add to that room

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

He’s also a fan favorite.  Not that it matters.

I go by whether the guy is good, very good, or great. I don't go by if I love the guy. I loved Gary Brackett for example, and I would say at best he was just good, probably above average but good enough for us. Same for Jim Harbaugh, he had 1 good season here. Nelson already has a borderline Hall of Fame resume = 3 1st team All-Pro's, 1 2nd team All-Pro, and 6 Pro-Bowl selections in his 6 seasons of play. I would say that is great. He is rated the 11th best Guard by PFF out of 64 going into 2024 and by the eye test he still arguably a top 5 Guard in the league. I can spit out facts all day, facts are better than opinions. 

[Dingus McGirt]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I go by whether the guy is good, very good, or great. I don't go by if I love the guy. I loved Gary Brackett for example, and I would say at best he was just good, probably above average but good enough for us. Same for Jim Harbaugh, he had 1 good season here. Nelson already has a borderline Hall of Fame resume = 3 1st team All-Pro's, 1 2nd team All-Pro, and 6 Pro-Bowl selections in his 6 seasons of play. I would say that is great. He is rated the 11th best Guard by PFF out of 64 going into 2024 and by the eye test he still arguably a top 5 Guard in the league. I can spit out facts all day, facts are better than opinions. 

Of course.  Sorry for my observation.

[richard pallo]

10 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Point is he is being paid elite hall of fame money is just a very good guard. Like one GM said. U get in trouble when u pay elite money to good players.

 

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I go by whether the guy is good, very good, or great. I don't go by if I love the guy. I loved Gary Brackett for example, and I would say at best he was just good, probably above average but good enough for us. Same for Jim Harbaugh, he had 1 good season here. Nelson already has a borderline Hall of Fame resume = 3 1st team All-Pro's, 1 2nd team All-Pro, and 6 Pro-Bowl selections in his 6 seasons of play. I would say that is great. He is rated the 11th best Guard by PFF out of 64 going into 2024 and by the eye test he still arguably a top 5 Guard in the league. I can spit out facts all day, facts are better than opinions. 

There you go.  I would say he’s in the elite category. Still building his resume too.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

34 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Of course.  Sorry for my observation.

No need to be sorry, I just think some in here get caught up thinking, people just think a player is great because they love him as a fan. That was the only point I was making. I know with me it isn't true. What is true is, it is unfortunate many in here find any way to demean a player or bash him for no reason. That was like with Taylor. I never witnessed so many ridiculous posts in my life from a handful of people regarding Taylor during his holdout. There were some in here that actually wanted us to trade him for a 4th round pick. Let that silliness sink in. Based on rumors he didn't want to be here, and he never said he didn't want to be here to begin with .

[DougDew]

42 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

 

There you go.  I would say he’s in the elite category. Still building his resume too.  

His run blocking hasn't been elite for quite some time.  And we don't need stats to tell us, just eyes to see how many times he lost his battles in crucial short yardage and goal line plays.

 

And while he has "recovered" from his injury to play at an overall high level, his run blocking and ability to drive may have been compromised indefinitely.

[richard pallo]

53 minutes ago, DougDew said:

His run blocking hasn't been elite for quite some time.  And we don't need stats to tell us, just eyes to see how many times he lost his battles in crucial short yardage and goal line plays.

 

And while he has "recovered" from his injury to play at an overall high level, his run blocking and ability to drive may have been compromised indefinitely.

I think his run blocking as a pulling guard is outstanding as well as his blocking on the second level when he gets there.  Short yardage when they load the box could be better.  Overall I think he’s right up there in the elite tier.

[2006Coltsbestever]

47 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think his run blocking as a pulling guard is outstanding as well as his blocking on the second level when he gets there.  Short yardage when they load the box could be better.  Overall I think he’s right up there in the elite tier.

Yeah, maybe I am missing something, but I haven't seen a huge a drop off in his play. Huge being the key word. Is he as great as he was in 2020, no but he was the best Guard in the league then. He set the bar so high and made it look so easy to people, that now if he has 2 or 3 bad games in 17, some think he doesn't deserve the money he is getting. It is almost impossible for any player to make 1st team or 2nd team All-Pro every year.

[Dingus McGirt]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

No need to be sorry, I just think some in here get caught up thinking, people just think a player is great because they love him as a fan. That was the only point I was making. I know with me it isn't true. What is true is, it is unfortunate many in here find any way to demean a player or bash him for no reason. That was like with Taylor. I never witnessed so many ridiculous posts in my life from a handful of people regarding Taylor during his holdout. There were some in here that actually wanted us to trade him for a 4th round pick. Let that silliness sink in. Based on rumors he didn't want to be here, and he never said he didn't want to be here to begin with .

My original comment was an extension of the post that said Irsay loves him, Ballard loves him…

[Moosejawcolt]

5 hours ago, richard pallo said:

 

There you go.  I would say he’s in the elite category. Still building his resume too.  

He was elite. He is no longer but maybe he can hit that level again. The injuries and instability have no doubt had a negative impact on his hall of fame trajectory.

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

He was elite. He is no longer but maybe he can hit that level again. The injuries and instability have no doubt had a negative impact on his hall of fame trajectory.

At least you finally acknowledged he was "elite".   He was very good pass blocking last year.   I don't know how PFF grades pass blocking or run blocking,   but he has been great from jump street.  I haven't heard any news about a lingering injury this off-season.   Let's see how the year plays out

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I think I can speak for most local Hoosiers and say that quite a bit of us are knowledgeable on the comings and goings of the team. 
 

Yes, we are loyal to our team, but we’re not blind fools who eat up everything the team feeds us. We like football. We like going and supporting our Colts even when they aren’t the best. 
 

I’m telling you, even though we lost that final game to the Texans, you could feel the energy in the stadium. We’re back, loud and proud for the Shoe. 

Only folks in the stands actually know

[AwesomeAustin]

I get both sides of the argument on Nelson. Has his production dipped a little?  Yes. Is he still really good? Yes. I do wonder if those thinking he isn’t living up to his contract were against paying a guard big money from the start. 
 

I personally think everything is fine. Nelson is a core piece and I’m glad he is on this team. Especially since the LT and C spots have had injury and/or performance issues the last couple years. He has anchored the left side of the line while also being a leader of this team. Nelson is special and I feel lucky to watch him play on my favorite team. Players like him don’t come around often so I’m going to enjoy the show and appreciate the talent. 
 

It’s the offseason so we usually have topics that deep dive in the roster and cap construction. This is one of them and most points given are just splitting hairs. I believe most of us know the LG position is good to go and not a concern for this seasons future success. AR, pass rush and the secondary will dictate how well this team does but we have discussed those topics for months so they are running out of things to say. 

[Dingus McGirt]

1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I get both sides of the argument on Nelson. Has his production dipped a little?  Yes. Is he still really good? Yes. I do wonder if those thinking he isn’t living up to his contract were against paying a guard big money from the start. 
 

I personally think everything is fine. Nelson is a core piece and I’m glad he is on this team. Especially since the LT and C spots have had injury and/or performance issues the last couple years. He has anchored the left side of the line while also being a leader of this team. Nelson is special and I feel lucky to watch him play on my favorite team. Players like him don’t come around often so I’m going to enjoy the show and appreciate the talent. 
 

It’s the offseason so we usually have topics that deep dive in the roster and cap construction. This is one of them and most points given are just splitting hairs. I believe most of us know the LG position is good to go and not a concern for this seasons future success. AR, pass rush and the secondary will dictate how well this team does but we have discussed those topics for months so they are running out of things to say. 

Take heart.  The preseason is a scant 51 days away.

[ADnum1]

I think the Nelson situation will work itself out. 

 

I took a look at his contract on spotrac.

 

He'll be here through 2024, but there is an out before 2025 of a 12M cap hit if released before 2025.

 

There is a 6m cap hit if released before 2026, so this is the more likely out.

 

As previous posters have said, let's observe him in 2024 and see if he continues his solid level of play.

 

It's in Nelson's hands now how much longer he's a Colt. 

 

Keep in mind that in 2025 he'll have been playing guard for 8 years which is a long time so it may be time to draft his replacement next April. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/25101/quenton-nelson#:~:text=2022-2026 Extension,average annual salary of %2420%2C000%2C000.

[richard pallo]

14 minutes ago, ADnum1 said:

I think the Nelson situation will work itself out. 

 

I took a look at his contract on spotrac.

 

He'll be here through 2024, but there is an out before 2025 of a 12M cap hit if released before 2025.

 

There is a 6m cap hit if released before 2026, so this is the more likely out.

 

As previous posters have said, let's observe him in 2024 and see if he continues his solid level of play.

 

It's in Nelson's hands now how much longer he's a Colt. 

 

Keep in mind that in 2025 he'll have been playing guard for 8 years which is a long time so it may be time to draft his replacement next April. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/25101/quenton-nelson#:~:text=2022-2026 Extension,average annual salary of %2420%2C000%2C000.

8 years is really not a long time for OL to play.  Even average guards play longer than that.  Nelson could easily play into his 30’s if he wants to.  I expect he will play out his contract with Colts baring a complete collapse.