Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Colts1324 said:

We’ll see. I imagine it’ll take at least 2nd. We’re competing with a few teams according to reports. I’d be ecstatic with a 3rd or 4th rounder for him even if we do have to pay him 

I don't see giving up our 2nd, at least not straight up.

 

I could see them swapping 2nds and throwing in a 2025 4th or something?

 

Or

 

2nd

 

For

 

Sneed

3rd

[Superman]

37 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

But your big example is Frankie Luvu who doesnt even fit our scheme and was on the worst team in the league last year.

 

I don't understand this argument. A lot of the other stuff in this post wasn't relevant either -- for example, he was not on a winning team, but then you talk about how it's all about the QB, so why is that being held against a LBer? And no one said that about Brian Burns...

 

I'm not out here banging the table for Frankie Luvu, but why doesn't he fit our scheme? He's an off ball LB, he played Will for the Panthers last year, had more than 400 coverage snaps, and was above average in coverage. He signed with the Commanders, whose HC Dan Quinn came up in the same defensive world as our DC Gus Bradley. There's no reason he can't play Franklin's position in our defense. 

 

He's not a Ballard prototype in terms of athleticism and body measurements, and that probably means he wasn't under consideration. But saying he's not a scheme fit isn't accurate. 

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, stitches said:

There were reports that Irsay wanted us to draft and grow our next QB pretty much from the start after Luck retired, but he trusted Ballard and Reich and let them proceed with their plan. 

I doubt those reports.  The only time I’m aware of where Irsay publicly said the Colts didn’t do what he wanted was going after Wentz.    Said he didn’t want that.  Otherwise, Irsay has always been very public about going for Veterans.  
 

He and Ballard always said they felt they owed it to the very young team they had built to try and win right away instead of waiting for a rookie quarterback to develop.  

 

That’s my recollection. 

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I doubt those reports.  The only time I’m aware of where Irsay publicly said the Colts didn’t do what he wanted was going after Wentz.    Said he didn’t want that.  Otherwise, Irsay has always been very public about going for Veterans.  
 

He and Ballard always said they felt they owed it to the very young team they had built to try and win right away instead of waiting for a rookie quarterback to develop.  

 

That’s my recollection. 

There was a creditable report but it was post Wentz debacle. Otherwise, I’ve not see. Any

[1959Colts]

1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

I actually logged back on today to apologize for my choice of verbiage!  It was uncalled for and I shouldn’t have projected my frustrations with a lot of ‘fans’ and their incessant negativity on you. 

 

 

I'm sorry if I came across as nasty. I do get wound up at times, about certain aspects of the Colts play, front office moves, decisions, etc. But I really only wish the best for our team.  becoming a bit frustrated with the mediocre status we have held for the past several years and hope for winning football seasons once again, really want this off season to be a catalyst to the improvement. Good day to You!

[Goatface Killah]

32 minutes ago, stitches said:

And Joe Thomas never was on a winning team and still he was the best OT of his generation. There are good players on bad teams. Frankie Luvu is just the easiest and most obvious example about the difference of what I think we needed vs what we got. I'm not stuck on him specifically. There are other LBs that could have helped with coverage and disrupting the passer more than Franklin. 

 

On that I can agree to some degree... the QB is the most important piece bar none. But still ... the QB is still less than half of the equation here. Hitting on a QB affords you opportunities and the QB can cover for a lot of shortcomings of your roster. But still... hitting on a QB doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of building a good roster... because when you go to the playoffs, you will meet other teams with great QBs ... and some of them will have strong rosters in addition to the strong QB.

QB play has a strong impact on our play on offense. On D, our roster construction and talent, defensive philosophy and coaching are the things that matter most. Majority of this is on Ballard. 

 

BTW not having a great QB play is on Ballard too. And this is not hindsight, either. The moment Luck retired my contention has been that we need to go find our next QB from the draft ASAP. This is another philosophical disagreement I had with Ballard for the 3 years after Luck's retirement. Him and Reich wanted vets... 

Yes it is absolutely hindsight, because the team was coming off a playoff win with Luck which suggested the roster was very good. Then they brought in Rivers and made the playoffs again which reinforced their opinion. Then he retired also over the vaccine mandate. They brought in Wentz and shouldve made the playoffs again, but Wentz had a horrible end to the season. That doesnt suggest the roster stinks. So they tried again with Matt Ryan which failed spectacularly. So they pivoted to the draft. 

 

They basically changed course the first sign that what they were doing wasnt working. 

 

 

 

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

There was a creditable report but it was post Wentz debacle. Otherwise, I’ve not see. Any

I think you are correct... it was after the Wentz thing and it was either in a Holder or Keefer piece where they had a lot of quotes from Irsay, but yah... the report was that Irsay supposedly preferred us to draft and develop our next QB pretty much from the start. I might try to find it later, but it's hard to do 2 years later... 

[1959Colts]

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

Yep. They revamped their entire DL around Anderson, who could be an AP ER. 
 

They have elite DL potential. Hunter and Autry had 28 sacks last year alone. 
 

They are trying to be contenders. 

I know. The free agent LB they just got is really good too. Our offensive line will have their hands full for sure in the two perennial matchups.

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think you are correct... it was after the Wentz thing and it was either in a Holder or Keefer piece where they had a lot of quotes from Irsay, but yah... the report was that Irsay supposedly preferred us to draft and develop our next QB pretty much from the start. I might try to find it later, but it's hard to do 2 years later... 

I’ve got it saved. Give me a few 

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, Goatface Killah said:

Yes it is absolutely hindsight, because the team was coming off a playoff win with Luck which suggested the roster was very good. Then they brought in Rivers and made the playoffs again which reinforced their opinion. Then he retired also over the vaccine mandate. They brought in Wentz and shouldve made the playoffs again, but Wentz had a horrible end to the season. That doesnt suggest the roster stinks. So they tried again with Matt Ryan which failed spectacularly. So they pivoted to the draft. 

 

They basically changed course the first sign that what they were doing wasnt working. 

 

 

 

The 2021 team was arguably the best of the bunch, but with inconsistent and often mediocre qb play. The raiders loss at home has to be the most brutal. Everyone points to the Jags the next week, but it felt like the life was sucked out of the team from the prior weeks events and loss. That team was dangerous. League leading rusher and forced turnovers on defense. They would have been dangerous, even just with a little bit more from Wentz, and especially if they had Rivers back… Frank getting on his knees and begging Irsay for another chance made ‘22 seem like a locker room that gave up after the end of the season, and last season really reinforced that opinion. Watching hard knocks made it feel like something was off between Frank and Wentz. Really strange relationship between the two of them. That’s my $0.02

[Goatface Killah]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't understand this argument. A lot of the other stuff in this post wasn't relevant either -- for example, he was not on a winning team, but then you talk about how it's all about the QB, so why is that being held against a LBer? And no one said that about Brian Burns...

 

I'm not out here banging the table for Frankie Luvu, but why doesn't he fit our scheme? He's an off ball LB, he played Will for the Panthers last year, had more than 400 coverage snaps, and was above average in coverage. He signed with the Commanders, whose HC Dan Quinn came up in the same defensive world as our DC Gus Bradley. There's no reason he can't play Franklin's position in our defense. 

 

He's not a Ballard prototype in terms of athleticism and body measurements, and that probably means he wasn't under consideration. But saying he's not a scheme fit isn't accurate. 

So he plays the same position as EJ Speed?  Didnt we just sign EJ Speed? Why would we bring in someone to take his place when hes actually played very well for us? There would be cap ramifications to that.

 

But, he didnt even suggest we replace EJ Speed with Luvu. 

 

He suggested we bring him in over Zaire Franklin to upgrade coverage and Luvu isnt a Mike. Franklin had a really good year last year and is a team captain. You wanna cut him for Luvu who isnt even a Mike? So no he doesnt fit there and it makes zero sense. 

 

 

[1959Colts]

 

[DougDew]

27 minutes ago, w87r said:

I don't see giving up our 2nd, at least not straight up.

 

I could see them swapping 2nds and throwing in a 2025 4th or something?

 

Or

 

2nd

 

For

 

Sneed

3rd

As has been said before...if ya can't draft them, trade for them.  Give up draft capital AND cap capital at the same time instead of just one or the other.  Oh well, I guess that observation of cost is just me being negative. 

 

We get a great player!  Yippie!

[Goatface Killah]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't understand this argument. A lot of the other stuff in this post wasn't relevant either -- for example, he was not on a winning team, but then you talk about how it's all about the QB, so why is that being held against a LBer? And no one said that about Brian Burns...

 

I'm not out here banging the table for Frankie Luvu, but why doesn't he fit our scheme? He's an off ball LB, he played Will for the Panthers last year, had more than 400 coverage snaps, and was above average in coverage. He signed with the Commanders, whose HC Dan Quinn came up in the same defensive world as our DC Gus Bradley. There's no reason he can't play Franklin's position in our defense. 

 

He's not a Ballard prototype in terms of athleticism and body measurements, and that probably means he wasn't under consideration. But saying he's not a scheme fit isn't accurate. 

You know whats funny about you bringing up Brian Burns?

 

He had 8 sacks last year and you all wanna bring him in? Both our edge guys had more sacks than him and they both make less than he is going to, COMBINED. And he cost them draft picks on top of that. 

 

He isnt even an upgrade.

 

You wanna sign guys just to sign them. 

 

Im just saying its not gonna make this huge difference in the teams play and its still gonna come down to how good Richardson is in the end because thats all that really matters. 

[Superman]

On 3/11/2024 at 1:44 PM, ArmchairQB said:

How so?  He is arguably the most consistent DE we have had in the last 5 years. 

 

I missed this before now. I think Autry was highly replaceable, and the plan was for our young guys to replace him. Turay and Banogu weren't good enough, but moving on from a 30+ edge rusher who wasn't anything special should not be so firmly planted into the hearts and minds of Colts fans for this long.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

As has been said before...if ya can't draft them, trade for them.  Give up draft capital AND cap capital at the same time instead of just one or the other.  Oh well.

Where has that been said before?  I mean directly said.   Thanks,  

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Where has that been said before?  I mean directly said.   Thanks,  

I read it on this board.  After the Buckner trade.  Also after finding a pass rushing EDGE by trading for Yannick, (post Benogu whiff) but that one didn't involve a draft pick or the double capital of the Buckner or proposed Sneed trade..

 

No, I didn't say it.  But I agreed with it when it was said.

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think you are correct... it was after the Wentz thing and it was either in a Holder or Keefer piece where they had a lot of quotes from Irsay, but yah... the report was that Irsay supposedly preferred us to draft and develop our next QB pretty much from the start. I might try to find it later, but it's hard to do 2 years later... 

 

Interesting….   You think CSMOPARS post supports your position.   I thought he supported my position.   
 

If it turns out Irsay said he wanted to draft a young QB shortly after the Luck retirement I think that would be a terrible look for Irsay and he’d lose whatever credibility he had.   Because he’s made public comments to the contrary.  

[Superman]

Just now, Goatface Killah said:

You know whats funny about you bringing up Brian Burns?

 

He had 8 sacks last year and you all wanna bring him in? Both our edge guys had more sacks than him and they both make less than he is going to, COMBINED. And he cost them draft picks on top of that. 

 

He isnt even an upgrade.

 

You wanna sign guys just to sign them. 

 

Im just saying ita not gonna make this huge difference in the teams play and its still gonna come down to how good Richardson is in the end because thats all that really matters. 

 

You should have just answered my question on Luvu, rather than changing the topic.

 

At no point have I wanted to sign Brian Burns. I just pointed out yesterday that I think he's overrated, and now, overpaid. The bolded is patently false, and totally misdirected.

 

https://forums.colts.com/topic/76749-colts-fa-news-merge/page/11/#comment-2630880

https://forums.colts.com/topic/76749-colts-fa-news-merge/page/12/#comment-2630900

 

So... why isn't Luvu a good fit for the Colts defense again?

[Goatface Killah]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You should have just answered my question on Luvu, rather than changing the topic.

 

At no point have I wanted to sign Brian Burns. I just pointed out yesterday that I think he's overrated, and now, overpaid. The bolded is patently false, and totally misdirected.

 

https://forums.colts.com/topic/76749-colts-fa-news-merge/page/11/#comment-2630880

https://forums.colts.com/topic/76749-colts-fa-news-merge/page/12/#comment-2630900

 

So... why isn't Luvu a good fit for the Colts defense again?

So why did you bring him up?

 

And Supe believe it or not I dont see every post you make. Im barely on this board during the offseason.

 

I just told you why Luvu isnt a fit. I made another post about that. 

 

[Breeze]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

“If AR doesn’t pan out then yes, we’re treading water”.  ????    Sorry, but huh?   
 

I think if AR doesn’t pan out, it’s a disaster for the entire franchise.    Heads roll.  Even if the new GM is Dodds or Brown, there will be changes in the front office.  And there might be considerable turnover of players.   
It might set back the franchise for several years.   
 

How is that treading water?   

Context, my friend.  In answering the other person’s question about whether we’ve improved by keeping our own, my point is that the QB is all that matters at this point.  Take Stroud away from Houston, and their roster is vanilla.  No Mahomes, no Super Bowl.  But yes, if AR doesn’t pan out, we’re back in the QB carousel and our FO looks different next year.  Unfortunately, I think the roster is too good, sans QB, to earn a top pick in the draft.  So the carousel will last a long time.

[stitches]

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Interesting….   You think CSMOPARS post supports your position.   I thought he supported my position.   
 

If it turns out Irsay said he wanted to draft a young QB shortly after the Luck retirement I think that would be a terrible look for Irsay and he’d lose whatever credibility he had.   Because he’s made public comments to the contrary.  

I think it's normal for the owner to support his GM in public with whatever decision they are making in the moment. Irsay supported Ballard and Reich about Wentz publicly too, but we now know that behind the scenes he was not sold on Wentz from the start. I guess we would never know for sure if Irsay really wanted us to draft a QB after Luck retired, or if what he's saying 2 years later is revisionist history to make himself look better.  I guess it's up for everybody to decide for themselves whether to believe Irsay or not. 

[w87r]

Devin White to the eagles.

[1959Colts]

Another good Lb

 

[Goatface Killah]

59 minutes ago, stitches said:

There were reports that Irsay wanted us to draft and grow our next QB pretty much from the start after Luck retired, but he trusted Ballard and Reich and let them proceed with their plan. 

As he should.

 

Irsay was not a good GM. 

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

So why did you bring him up?

 

And Supe believe it or not I dont see every post you make. Im barely on this board during the offseason.

 

I just told you why Luvu isnt a fit. I made another post about that. 

 

 

The reason I mentioned Burns was pretty obvious. The Panthers win/loss record doesn't devalue the individual players on the team. Using the team record to knock Luvu was strange.

 

I don't expect you to see every post I make. But maybe don't attribute viewpoints to me that I have not promoted.

 

Just saw your other post. Whether the Colts should have replaced either Franklin or Speed with Luvu is not my question. I'm asking whether there's something about Luvu's game that makes him a poor fit for our defense. If you think he's a better fit at Will than Mike, wouldn't it be fair to say that he actually would fit the Colts defense? 

 

I think he can play Will or Mike in Bradley's defense, and probably would be a better fit at Mike. 

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think it's normal for the owner to support his GM in public with whatever decision they are making in the moment. Irsay supported Ballard and Reich about Wentz publicly too, but we now know that behind the scenes he was not sold on Wentz from the start. I guess we would never know for sure if Irsay really wanted us to draft a QB after Luck retired, or if what he's saying 2 years later is revisionist history to make himself look better.  I guess it's up for everybody to decide for themselves whether to believe Irsay or not. 

I think the one part where we agree is the possibility that Irsay is dealing some revisionist history to make himself look better (or less bad).   I’ve had that feeling for a while now and odds are few would contradict him.   Those are often the kind of secrets that an owner takes to their grave. 

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Another good Lb

 

Im not sure how good White is?   He has nothing but terrible PFF grades since his rookie year.   Seriously bad grades.  I think he’s been riding his reputation as the 5th overall pick and that’s why all he’s getting is 1/$7.5m   Pennies for a guy with a big reputation.   

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Another good Lb

 

 

What a fall... This dude was asking for $20m/year recently. Super talented, but his performance has been up and down throughout his career.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10097445-buccaneers-rumors-devin-white-wanted-20m-per-season-in-contract-talks-with-tb

[Patrick Miller]

Not gonna lie I’m a bit disappointed in Ballards lack of aggression.

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 3/11/2024 at 8:00 PM, GoColts8818 said:

He’s already got a large part of the offense.  He has a true franchise back, two very good WRs and third some think will flourish with Richardson and a very good o-line.  They have several promising tight ends and if hey get Moss back I don’t think you need much on offense.  Maybe another WR or TE like Bowers if he’s there.  Beyond that maybe a guard for depth which can come in the later rounds.

our offense was not good enough last season we need a game changing pass catcher

[ProblChld32]

2 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

Trey Sermon was resigned. What do you guys think about him? Moss replacement?

Not a fan , tbh I don’t think he is much of a bruiser like Moss was. Would’ve much rather they considered bringing in some one else but we are getting Hull back next season so we shall see.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

our offense was not good enough last season we need a game changing pass catcher

And I expect the Colts to draft him in the first or second round in about six weeks. 

[Goatface Killah]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

The reason I mentioned Burns was pretty obvious. The Panthers win/loss record doesn't devalue the individual players on the team. Using the team record to knock Luvu was strange.

 

I don't expect you to see every post I make. But maybe don't attribute viewpoints to me that I have not promoted.

 

Just saw your other post. Whether the Colts should have replaced either Franklin or Speed with Luvu is not my question. I'm asking whether there's something about Luvu's game that makes him a poor fit for our defense. If you think he's a better fit at Will than Mike, wouldn't it be fair to say that he actually would fit the Colts defense? 

 

I think he can play Will or Mike in Bradley's defense, and probably would be a better fit at Mike. 

Has he ever had Mike responsibilities before? I have no clue. Im not knocking Luvu, I actually like him as a player.

 

But I dont think signing him makes a big impact. Especially if you lose Franklin or Speed in the process.

 

And I dont think hes a Mike. 

 

I am happy with Speed and Zaire Franklin and I just dont think they are a problem for us, at all. 

 

I dont know if this is on Luvu......but Carolina gave up more TDs to TEs than the Colts last year on way less targets. 

 

I just dont see it as a huge signing. I think adding a quality backup nose tackle is a bigger upgrade over what we had last year than that. Just my opinion.

[1959Colts]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Im not sure how good White is?   He has nothing but terrible PFF grades since his rookie year.   Seriously bad grades.  I think he’s been riding his reputation as the 5th overall pick and that’s why all he’s getting is 1/$7.5m   Pennies for a guy with a big reputation.   

Yeah? I'm not really sure how good he actually is? I don't like pff, and I never rely on that, as to who is good and who is not. but I did research the Bucs team before we played them last year, as I usually do for every one of our opponents. As I recall, most of the articles, blogs, etc  I read mentioned White as having a nice year. Then when we played them I thought he played well. Had a bunch of tackles against us

[Goatface Killah]

4 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

our offense was not good enough last season we need a game changing pass catcher

We actually ranked in the top half of the league, with a backup QB.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

Not gonna lie I’m a bit disappointed in Ballards lack of aggression.

You're not alone.   Certainly not this year and quite honestly pretty much every year.  
 

The majority if the community gets upset as Ballard mostly sits out week one and then makes his move on week two. 
 

Quite honestly, I think this year is the most active Ballard has been in week one as he has re-signed his own. 

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

Not gonna lie I’m a bit disappointed in Ballards lack of aggression.

I'm fine with it.  Now is not the offseason to potentially waste capital when AR is still uncertain....and despite what Ballard might say about AR...his lack of aggression speaks to him not yet trusting that AR is the guy.  He'll probably make the same moves he's made in prior years when we did not have the guy.  JMO.

 

I don't think he spends a lot for Sneed.  I mean, you've got to add pieces to keep that .500 record going and talk like we could contend for the Division, but making one splash play is not a huge roster bump like some of the other more contending teams are doing.

 

[1959Colts]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What a fall... This dude was asking for $20m/year recently. Super talented, but his performance has been up and down throughout his career.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10097445-buccaneers-rumors-devin-white-wanted-20m-per-season-in-contract-talks-with-tb

I see. But 7.5 isnt too bad still. Glad we didnt pay him the 20mil though

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Yeah? I'm not really sure how good he actually is? I don't like pff, and I never rely on that, as to who is good and who is not. but I did research the Bucs team before we played them last year, as I usually do for every one of our opponents. As I recall, most of the articles, blogs, etc  I read mentioned White as having a nice year. Then when we played them I thought he played well. Had a bunch of tackles against us

Superman just made a post showing that White has been wanting $20 mill a year from Tampa.   They said goodbye and now the best deal he could get is 1/$7.5.  I think the NFL has spoken about just how good White really is.