Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)

[DEColtsLover36]

3 minutes ago, AKB said:

without rain and darkness the sunny days don't hit the same

Feels like we’ve been getting quite the downpour lately!

[BlackTiger]

Just now, Colt.45 said:

We want the players to act like socialists for sure.

 

If he cant get by on the 4.3 million hes making this year then i have zero sympathy for him.  Thats like 3 lifetimes worth of income to the average person, just for this season alone

 

He just mad that other positions make more

[Bravo]

22 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

He's a wide receiver, what's there to complain about? He'll get paid in Indy or somewhere else. All business. He knows that for a fact.

JT? Different story entirely. 

 

That’s the market for the position and it’s not gonna change. Not the Colts fault and not JTs.

 

Like you said, MPJ will get paid in Indy or somewhere else.

 

Taylor isn’t gonna get his crazy pay day in Indy and he sure isn’t gonna get it anywhere else.

 

So it is the same story. Just unfortunately for JT he is on the wrong side of it because of his position.

 

JT is wild for all this especially after his poor/ injury filled season last year.

 

 

 

 

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Oh I'm not on the side of the owners either. I generally dislike anything corporate related because corporations never have our best interests. 

Careful now, you're sounding anti-capitalist here  

 

All kidding aside, 100% agree with you. The larger problem lies elsewhere and it smells of suits and corporate hogwash not cleats and years of sweat on the football field. We forget this too often. Misdirected ire.

[ShuteAt168]

1 hour ago, TaylorStillTruckedYou said:

The average person cannot speak on someone with a completely different lifestyle.  Someone who makes millions of dollars cannot be grouped in the same issues of someone who makes the normal pay scale.  Both are in different situations, the easiest example would be let’s say taxes.  We can all agree, athletes make much more.  Like I mentioned this previous week when I got a little push back, fans turn on these players so quickly regardless of the situation.  I will agree both sides are wrong in some areas, but both sides also have an equal amount of reasonings behind their statements.  Like Pat said, both sides need to have compromise.  
 

P.S.  to be fair, put yourself in Taylor’s shoes.  Since coming into the league, your GM preached about paying the players that deserve it.  When it’s your turn, then the philosophy is changed.  
 

There needs to be a little more Empathy for JT on this issue

A healthy JT might “deserve it.” But a JT coming off injury, 800 yards, maybe a back injury, and into a new system — just too many unknowns in my opinion. But I see your point too. 

[Colt.45]

4 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

If he cant get by on the 4.3 million hes making this year then i have zero sympathy for him.  Thats like 3 lifetimes worth of income to the average person, just for this season alone

 

He just mad that other positions make more

 

You're missing the entire point and it's fine that you cannot understand it. 

 

Why do folks value diamonds more than water?

[Colt.45]

7 minutes ago, Bravo said:

 

That’s the market for the position and it’s not gonna change. Not the Colts fault and not JTs.

 

Like you said, MPJ will get paid in Indy or somewhere else.

 

Taylor isn’t gonna get his crazy pay day in Indy and he sure isn’t gonna get it anywhere else.

 

So it is the same story. Just unfortunately for JT he is on the wrong side of it because of his position.

 

JT is wild for all this especially after his poor/ injury filled season last year.

 

 

 

 

JT is very smart. This move though....not the greatest move he could have made.

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

If he cant get by on the 4.3 million hes making this year then i have zero sympathy for him.  Thats like 3 lifetimes worth of income to the average person, just for this season alone

 

He just mad that other positions make more

Taylor is mad because HIS POSITION used to make more.    And it was recent. 

[RollerColt]

3 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Careful now, you're sounding anti-capitalist here  

 

All kidding aside, 100% agree with you. The larger problem lies elsewhere and it smells of suits and corporate hogwash not cleats and years of sweat on the football field. We forget this too often. Misdirected ire.

I'm a mixed economics kind of guy, much like how our country is.

[BlackTiger]

5 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

You're missing the entire point and it's fine that you cannot understand it. 

 

Why do folks value diamonds more than water?

 

Dont act like fans shouldn't comment when the teams best player is requesting a trade over ridiculous contract demands.

 

He is signed for another year and needs to do more to earn more money.  He isnt due for a contract now

 

He wants the bag after one great season two years ago.  Not happening 

[Colt.45]

Just now, RollerColt said:

I'm a mixed economics kind of guy, much like how our country is.

Same here. The thing with a mixed economy is it can incentivize corruption and aid this very debate we're having i.e. where in a true capitalist world, everyone understands that innovation and ability get rewarded; in a mixed economy, you're getting some parties judged as capitalists and others judged as socialists and the media controls the narrative. Guess who tends to control the media....

[BlackTiger]

RBs just are not worth what hes asking.

 

We have not won a playoff game since hes been here and he wants too much of the cap.

 

Theres your economics.  16 per year to a RB would hurt the team if you go by recent analytics 

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

 

Dont act like fans shouldn't comment when the teams best player is requesting a trade over ridiculous contract demands.

 

He is signed for another year and needs to do more to earn more money.  He isnt due for a contract now

 

He wants the bag after one great season two years ago.  Not happening 

I never said fans shouldn't comment. I'm saying that as fans we need to educate ourselves and learn so we reduce frustration and maybe evolve to were we hold those responsible accountable rather than hammering on those who actually are the superheroes. If we keep saying the same stuff every season, we show a failure to learn or understand the true nature of things. That's the point.

 

He signed a deal for X years, cool. He has the ability to negotiate, did you forget that bit? Was Shaq due? Kenny? Nyheim? Pick any NFL player out the box....I hate that JT did this FYI. I think it isn't a good strategy and have said that repeatedly. 

 

We shouldn't compare our pockets to theirs. 

[Tsarquise]

16 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

 

I understand the viewpoint and comments can stir emotions but it is odd to me that we get mad about the players but not the owners. It is odd to me that we get mad about the players talking of their families when we dont know what their expenses are. Or that we seem to get savagely mad at folks maximizing their earning ability as if that's not what many of us do or try to do in life.

 

You are absolutely digressing; that's a whole different conversation and an annoying red herring that I have no interest in touching. The amount the owners make have nothing to do with the subject; it's completely irrelevant because of the salary cap; there is only so much money to go around. 

 

Like I said, fans are interested in seeing their team win the Superbowl and Taylor's  shenanigans are a road block to that goal. Running backs doing a complete 180 by completely switching up their stance and asking for large and ridiculous amounts of money after a down season while still on a rookie contract isn't going to get much sympathy. 

 

1. Taylor is a good RB, and now we might potentially lose him, which isn't good news. Fans are upset about that. And the relationship might not be salvageable.

 

2. If we want to keep him, it looks like we might have to pay premium money for a non premium position, which means less money for more valuable positions. 

 

I don't understand why you find the backlash so perplexing that no one is talking about the owners paychecks. The owners paychecks have nothing to with conversation. If owners split the money 50/50 with the owners (or even gave the players more than themselves), Taylor would still be trying to get his perceived rightful piece of the pie, whether the preceived warranted salary is 20 million or 100 million; that's why it's not about taking care of his family, it's about how much money he thinks he deserves, whether that be pride, the love of money, or principle – why he wants the money is irrelevant though. 

 

[RollerColt]

6 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Same here. The thing with a mixed economy is it can incentivize corruption and aid this very debate we're having i.e. where in a true capitalist world, everyone understands that innovation and ability get rewarded; in a mixed economy, you're getting some parties judged as capitalists and others judged as socialists and the media controls the narrative. Guess who tends to control the media....

Hence the need for governance. Both sides need kept in check for balance. 

 

An example: my local area has a thriving corporate business that is making tons of money and therefore the employees are wealthy. The same business is also now being found for polluting our water, and the pollution has caused cancer in many of the local residents. Some of those residents have tragically died, including several of my friends. 

 

So while the capitalist side has benefited my community moneywise, uncontrolled greed has also brought so much cancer to my area that they've had to build a separate hospital/center to treat all of the sick. 

[Myles]

6 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

RBs just are not worth what hes asking.

 

We have not won a playoff game since hes been here and he wants too much of the cap.

 

Theres your economics.  16 per year to a RB would hurt the team if you go by recent analytics 

I agree.   I have no sympathy for JT.  He still has a year on his current contract.  He is coming off a poor injury ridden season.  The Colts would be crazy to give him a big contract now.   He must prove he is what we think he can be.  He will make over $5 million this year.  That is almost 4 times the average NFL RB's salary.  

[BlackTiger]

Just now, Colt.45 said:

Was Shaq due? Kenny? Nyheim?

None of these are good examples of paying players early working out well for the team in the long run.

[DoubleE Colt]

Regardless of all the posturing and back and forth between both camps the simple fact is Taylor has virtually no leverage whatsoever. The Colts hold pretty much all the cards and could do for the next several years with him if they wish to via tag. Honestly his best bet is to get his head down and prove his point with his play this season and see where the market lies next year.......I don't begrudge anyone trying to earn more money but he played his hand and the Colts hold the better hand so deal with it. 

[Tsarquise]

3 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Hence the need for governance. Both sides need kept in check for balance. 

 

An example: my local area has a thriving corporate business that is making tons of money and therefore the employees are wealthy. The same business is also now being found for polluting our water, and the pollution has caused cancer in many of the local residents. Some of those residents have tragically died, including several of my friends. 

 

So while the capitalist side has benefited my community moneywise, uncontrolled greed has also brought so much cancer to my area that they've had to build a separate hospital/center to treat all of the sick. 

Unfortunate that you fell for that red herring. Derailing this thread. 

[RollerColt]

Just now, Tsarquise said:

Unfortunate that you fell for that red herring. Derailing this thread. 

It's kind of relevant. Plus we're at 54 pages of essentially the same argument. And this won't be resolved tomorrow or even this week. Maybe all season... 

[Tsarquise]

5 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

It's kind of relevant. Plus we're at 54 pages of essentially the same argument. And this won't be resolved tomorrow or even this week. Maybe all season... 

Yeah, kind of, that's why it's a red herring. Just annoying when people do that. 

[BlackTiger]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Taylor is mad because HIS POSITION used to make more.    And it was recent. 

I get that hes mad, but thats not going to change the world.  If his goal was a trade he should have done this before the draft.  This isnt the time for that

[BlackTiger]

Its not like the colts have ran him into the ground.  In three seasons he spent the first splitting carries, had one big year and then missed time last year

 

Hes jumping the gun.  There were some questioning if his college team ran him too hard, maybe thats becoming an issue(at least to him)

[Colt.45]

Just now, Tsarquise said:

You are absolutely digressing; that's a whole different conversation that I have no interest in touching. (Although the owners being paid more is more along the lines of capitalism, not socialism.) The amount the owners make have nothing to do with the subject; it's completely irrelevant because of the salary cap; there is only so much money to go around. 

 

Like I said, fans are interested in seeing their team win the Superbowl and Taylor's  shenanigans are a road block to that goal. Running backs doing a complete 180 by completely switching up their stance and asking for large and ridiculous amounts of money after a down season while still on a rookie contract isn't going to get much sympathy. 

 

1. Taylor is a good RB, and now we might potentially lose him, which isn't good news. Fans are upset about that. And the relationship might not be salvageable.

 

2. If we want to keep him, it looks like we might have to pay premium money for a non premium position, which means less money for more valuable positions. 

 

I don't understand why you find the backlash so perplexing that no one is talking about the owners paychecks. The owners paychecks have nothing to with conversation. If owners split the money 50/50 with the owners (or even gave the players more than themselves), Taylor would still be trying to get his perceived rightful piece of the pie, whether the preceived warranted salary is 20 million or 100 million; that's why it's not about taking care of his family, it's about how much money he thinks he deserves, whether that be pride, the love of money, or principle – why he wants the money is irrelevant though. 

 

 

Good response!

 

I bring up the owners because if the itch that bugs us as fans is players asking for more of the pot, then we have to start asking who controls the pot and whether its size is growing. If the answer is the owners control the pot, and the pot size is growing then how is it so surprising to us that the ones putting their bodies on the line want more of that growing pot. The owner issue is not separate from the player issue at all. 

 

Next, the fan perspective. I get why fans get angry, I've said I understand it but I'm also saying it's a path of endless, groundhogs day frustration and we're not acting any more rationally than JT. The fans are as self interested as the players. Fans want super teams and winners and all this that. JT wants his money.

 

We can come here complaining about it or we can evolve and be a little less self interested and understand their side of it or attempt to. We're fans i.e. fanatics so we are mostly filled with emotions and so that aint gonna happen for most of us but I've given the path to less frustration about these deals, thats my 2 cents. Emotions that cloud our judgement, and exclude us from seeing that the greed and self-interest we put on the players is something we're guilty of too. e.g. I can't feed my family yet I pay a price to watch my Colts because it takes away my frustration and gives me an escape [yet] when one of those players acts in what they perceive to be their interest, i am unhappy because it threatened to disrupt my life and my escape. That player is rich already, their life is made. I still cannot feed my family. Folks, it's all self interest. Lets at least understand that part and quit acting like the players are any more self interested than we'd be if we could endure an NFL snap.

 

Last year it was Kenny, this year it's JT. Hopefully he stays and produces. Next year, it'll be the next dude. The pattern repeats, I know it, you know it. I chose to get past that frustration though i understand why others might not, the frustration isnt worth it.

 

 

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Good response!

 

I bring up the owners because if the itch that bugs us as fans is players asking for more of the pot, then we have to start asking who controls the pot and whether its size is growing. If the answer is the owners control the pot, and the pot size is growing then how is it so surprising to us that the ones putting their bodies on the line want more of that growing pot. The owner issue is not separate from the player issue at all. 

 

Next, the fan perspective. I get why fans get angry, I've said I understand it but I'm also saying it's a path of endless, groundhogs day frustration and we're not acting any more rationally than JT. The fans are as self interested as the players. Fans want super teams and winners and all this that. JT wants his money.

 

We can come here complaining about it or we can evolve and be a little less self interested and understand their side of it or attempt to. We're fans i.e. fanatics so we are mostly filled with emotions and so that aint gonna happen for most of us but I've given the path to less frustration about these deals, thats my 2 cents. Emotions that cloud our judgement, and exclude us from seeing that the greed and self-interest we put on the players is something we're guilty of too. e.g. I can't feed my family yet I pay a price to watch my Colts because it takes away my frustration and gives me an escape [yet] when one of those players acts in what they perceive to be their interest, i am unhappy because it threatened to disrupt my life and my escape. That player is rich already, their life is made. I still cannot feed my family. Folks, it's all self interest. Lets at least understand that part and quit acting like the players are any more self interested than we'd be if we could endure an NFL snap.

 

Last year it was Kenny, this year it's JT. Hopefully he stays and produces. Next year, it'll be the next dude. The pattern repeats, I know it, you know it. I chose to get past that frustration though i understand why others might not, the frustration isnt worth it.

 

 

Well you’re right. It happens every year. But having been following the Colts since 1984, I’ve never seen a player or agent act like this. I will go further and say that as a Levon Bell fan, I watched that situation unfold with interest. At the time I thought the way he acted was childish but now JT and his agent take that title and then some. 

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I get that hes mad, but thats not going to change the world.  If his goal was a trade he should have done this before the draft.  This isnt the time for that

All I was trying to say is that JT isn’t jealous of teammates who play other positions.  
 

He’s upset because just as he was about to reach the finish line (the start of his fourth and last year on his rookie deal) the finish line has moved.   So instead of getting his new contract NOW,  he’s got to wait and put his body and career at risk by playing out his contract and hoping for a better deal next winter.   And of course, after risking his body and career this year, next year he might get Tagged and so he might not get the big payday after all. 
 

This situation is more complicated than many here are acknowledging.  

[jvan1973]

28 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Hence the need for governance. Both sides need kept in check for balance. 

 

An example: my local area has a thriving corporate business that is making tons of money and therefore the employees are wealthy. The same business is also now being found for polluting our water, and the pollution has caused cancer in many of the local residents. Some of those residents have tragically died, including several of my friends. 

 

So while the capitalist side has benefited my community moneywise, uncontrolled greed has also brought so much cancer to my area that they've had to build a separate hospital/center to treat all of the sick. 

Where do you live?

[RollerColt]

17 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Yeah, kind of, that's why it's a red herring. Just annoying when people do that. 

My apologies for annoying you. 

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Where do you live?

Southeast Indiana. 

[Fluke_33]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

It’s not his turn yet though…

 

MPJ isn’t complaining yet.

True, but MPJ grew up wealthy though.  may be a little different for him.

[Colt.45]

21 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Hence the need for governance. Both sides need kept in check for balance. 

 

An example: my local area has a thriving corporate business that is making tons of money and therefore the employees are wealthy. The same business is also now being found for polluting our water, and the pollution has caused cancer in many of the local residents. Some of those residents have tragically died, including several of my friends. 

 

So while the capitalist side has benefited my community moneywise, uncontrolled greed has also brought so much cancer to my area that they've had to build a separate hospital/center to treat all of the sick. 

Yup, that's the damage it leads to. It can be unfortunate and i'm truly sorry about your losses. The staggering ease it can take to fall into greed is a tale as old as the world. 

In the NFLs case, Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who's guarding the guards? They're the law to themselves. Yet another Economics principle that's been fought in the courts on and off. Is this league a monopoly? 

 

When we see how many tentacles come from just this one topic, it can be overwhelming. So, I stay out of players pockets, at least i can actually see their work and enjoy how they interact with the community (by every measurable rate, whether giving or volunteering or crime, the NFL players do better than society as a whole by some margin). It all stinks, but when folks start talking about monies that i have trouble remembering how many zeroes the number has  , it's usually safe to assume there's greed and other negative emotions involved so I'm sad that this good young back feels the way he does but I get it. As a fan, i wish it weren't the case. I wish he and AR would bust some NFL lips this season and surprise us all with a playoff run but my emotions are removed from the money of it.

[BlackTiger]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

he’s got to wait and put his body and career at risk by playing out his contract and hoping for a better deal next winter

 Hes in a position where he should finish his rookie contract imo like most players.

 

Its not like the colts have ran him into the ground over these three seasons.  

 

I am staring to wonder if all those carries at Wisconsin are effecting things and making him jump the gun.  

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

41 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

A healthy JT might “deserve it.” But a JT coming off injury, 800 yards, maybe a back injury, and into a new system — just too many unknowns in my opinion. But I see your point too. 

For sure, and I see everyone’s point of view.  It’s just that it’s not as simple as a lot of fans are making it.  For an added note, JT could easily use the Shaq Leonard situation.  Was he not coming off of an injury but was still paid handsomely?  As it is made clear with so many view points, there are just too many variables in this issue.  Clearly there is no right answer OTHER than one side or both sides compromise. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, TaylorStillTruckedYou said:

For sure, and I see everyone’s point of view.  It’s just that it’s not as simple as a lot of fans are making it.  For an added note, JT could easily use the Shaq Leonard situation.  Was he not coming off of an injury but was still paid handsomely?  As it is made clear with so many view points, there are just too many variables in this issue.  Clearly there is no right answer OTHER than one side or both sides compromise. 

That’s fine but maybe Ballard is changing his philosophy this year. Like he said we only won 4 games and have a new coach. Every player is being evaluated this year.

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

That’s fine but maybe Ballard is changing his philosophy this year. Like he said we only won 4 games and have a new coach. Every player is being evaluated this year.

As they should be. 

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

That’s fine but maybe Ballard is changing his philosophy this year. Like he said we only won 4 games and have a new coach. Every player is being evaluated this year.

Yep this right here is very valid.  So can everyone also agree that with an unexpected change in the philosophy that you were drafted in, that JT feelings and emotions are also valid?  I know if I worked my tail off for multiple years expecting to be rewarded for my hard work, then it was ripped from right under me, I would be somewhat emotional as well.  

[Nate!]

7 minutes ago, TaylorStillTruckedYou said:

For sure, and I see everyone’s point of view.  It’s just that it’s not as simple as a lot of fans are making it.  For an added note, JT could easily use the Shaq Leonard situation.  Was he not coming off of an injury but was still paid handsomely?  As it is made clear with so many view points, there are just too many variables in this issue.  Clearly there is no right answer OTHER than one side or both sides compromise. 

He could use it but that would actually be a point to not pay him as that contract has been a disaster

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

1 minute ago, Nate! said:

He could use it but that would actually be a point to not pay him as that contract has been a disaster

Yessir, that is also where the variables come into play.  Each side has very strong arguements

[Colt.45]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Well you’re right. It happens every year. But having been following the Colts since 1984, I’ve never seen a player or agent act like this. I will go further and say that as a Levon Bell fan, I watched that situation unfold with interest. At the time I thought the way he acted was childish but now JT and his agent take that title and then some. 

As a fellow LeVeon fan, I remember yelling at my TV in 18. He could have reset the world for running backs. He was a young hothead. Backs like Ekeler would be getting paid way more than 4 years 24M

 

JT? I think he's being influenced by the Zoom backs, and I get his stance though. He's in a different place from Bell was though, the backs all feel like they have to start acting out now. Look how many of them are job hunting, Dalvin Cook cant get a job, DALVIN COOK! 

This agent, who also reps Shaq, is a hoodlum. However, he's also pretty good at his job. Think about it - JT hired him to get the most money he could and to shake things up. As much as we think he's ill advising our boy, if maximizing $ is the end game, then i think that at the end of the day even if JT loses this standoff, on the long run he'll still get the most $ possible wherever he lands AND the running back plight is in the limelight firmly. As long as he performs of course.

 

The true losers here are the Colts fans. We trusted Jonathan Taylor and he did a 180 on us. I have seen brutal agents in the league and yeah Indy has usually been lucky not to have players with those reps but most other fanbases deal with this. I agree though, I cannot remember a Colts player who was thought of as being so good do an about face like this. He's gone from Hulk Hogan to the Evil Sheikh in one offseason, that's a novelty but Colts fans need to expect this to become the norm. 

[Colt.45]

43 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

None of these are good examples of paying players early working out well for the team in the long run.

Yup, and I think they mean to move away from that but be ready to expect more player power every year, I suspect we aint seen nothing yet.

[Tsarquise]

20 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

My apologies for annoying you. 

Southeast Indiana. 

Lol all good.