The toughest of Minshew

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Sure he is.  It shows.  I'd rather have him as the starter over JT.  He's the kind of RB that compliments a passing game by churning out the tough yards.  Unlike JT, who has to be run up the gut continuously as a focus of the O...hoping he breaks a run.  JT's plays hog plays that should be given to the passing game.   The role of the NFL RB in the 2020s is not to be the focus of the offense, so Moss is a better RB for the NFL.

 

Besides, Moss has always been talented, and it showed in the few times he ran the ball in BUF.  Its been injury/availability holding him back.   

 

But we won yesterday because the centerpiece of the O was a QB that knows where to throw the ball, complemented by the right kind of RB. 

I get where you are coming from but Taylor is better. Look I like Moss, glad we have him. The combo of Moss and Taylor would be deadly with AR.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I get where you are coming from but Taylor is better. Look I like Moss, glad we have him. The combo of Moss and Taylor would be deadly with AR.

I think JT has to have a lot of plays run for him in order to get those few big plays we love to see.  That just hogs plays away from the passing game.  

 

RBs like Moss provide the O better balance.   I guess "better" is relative.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, DougDew said:

I think JT has to have a lot of plays run for him in order to get those few big plays we love to see.  That just hogs plays away from the passing game.  

 

RBs like Moss provide the O better balance.   I guess "better" is relative.  

Maybe we can be 1995 Nebraska all over again 

[lollygagger8]

 

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Maybe we can be 1995 Nebraska all over again 

I think people see the runs Moss has and just mentally replace him with JT, and JT would have broken some of them.  But Moss was able to get those runs because he wasn't such a focus of the O, so its not just a simple replace one with the other.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, DougDew said:

I think people see the runs Moss has and just mentally replace him with JT, and JT would have broken some of them.  But Moss was able to get those runs because he wasn't such a focus of the O, so its not just a simple replace one with the other.

Imagine AR being Tommie Frazier but 2024 Tommie = stronger, better, faster, with Moss and Taylor, then AR (aka Frazier) just flicking it to his TE's and Pittman for big 1st downs. 

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I think people see the runs Moss has and just mentally replace him with JT, and JT would have broken some of them.  But Moss was able to get those runs because he wasn't such a focus of the O, so its not just a simple replace one with the other.

It's a shame really... Because having JT and Moss as a committee would 1. allow them to stay fresh throughout the game, 2. wear the defense down considerably as long as we weren't designating certain plays for each RB, and 3. reduce the risk of injury for both players. 

 

Add Richardson in the mix and we'd look like last year's Eagles. 

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

It's a shame really... Because having JT and Moss as a committee would 1. allow them to stay fresh throughout the game, 2. wear the defense down considerably as long as we weren't designating certain plays for each RB, and 3. reduce the risk of injury for both players. 

 

Add Richardson in the mix and we'd look like last year's Eagles. 

I don't think AR knows where to go with the ball as much as Hurts does.  Hurts really isn't as talented as what he his given credit for.  He's a very good game manager, and AR is too raw to be that.  I think JT just doesn't play the Sanders role as well as Moss.

[RollerColt]

Just now, DougDew said:

I don't think AR knows where to go with the ball as much as Hurts does.  Hurts rally isn't that talented, he's a very good game manager, and AR is too raw to be that.  I think JT just doesn't play the Sanders role as well as Moss.

I absolutely agree with that. And it really should be that way considering Hurts has way more collegiate and NFL experience. 

[Malakai432]

Anyone think the right side of the line including, in particular Smith a little bit troublesome?  Or am I just being a worry wart?  Loved the fight in them yesterday and Matt lit it up on the ST side.  Also like how Minshew looks, heck of a backup.

[masterlock]

17 hours ago, kymd82222 said:

It's early in the season, but we'll see how things go.  Like you said, he's supposed to be our deep threat, and right now he's repeatedly getting out muscled by corners when we do target him deep.  Hope he becomes the guy we need him to be, but I definitely have my doubts.  2nd season is usually a breakout year for good WRs.  Reggie Wayne doubled his production in year 2.  So did MPJ.  Even if guys don't double their production, the good receivers typically have at least somewhat of a breakout year 2 if they're going to be good.  So far, Pierce is not even on track for 300 years.  Downs is on pace to have a much better year, and I think he will.  

Pierce has been a victim of the laws of physics. In the first game, he had a defender literally fall on him in while he was trying to make the catch. And yesterday, the defender just managed to jar it loose at the right time. Not much more you can do when you're outstretched with both hands clasped around the ball, and the defender hits it the right way--unless you have 3 hands, of course.

[DougDew]

6 hours ago, Malakai432 said:

Anyone think the right side of the line including, in particular Smith a little bit troublesome?  Or am I just being a worry wart?  Loved the fight in them yesterday and Matt lit it up on the ST side.  Also like how Minshew looks, heck of a backup.

This is the third year in a row where Smith has had a bad start to the season.  He usually starts playing better about game 4 or 5.

[Fluke_33]

21 hours ago, #12. said:

I'm glad he didn’t Orlovsky it in a loss.  That would have been much worse.

Orlovsky was the qb to give us a win in an otherwise winless season.  

[CanuckColtsFan]

21 hours ago, newjagscity said:

You guys can win with the Shew. Had we had any kind of talent to surround him with, we would have. In fact, I think he gives you your best chace to win this year. AR probably has more upside if he can learn to process as a QB, and keep from getting killed as a runner, but if I were your organization, I'd ride Minshew as long as possible. Yea, he's limited a bit with arm strength, but makes up for that with accuracy and good decision making.  Plenty of time to develop AR without ruining him.

Haha nice try. No you play Richardson.  He's playing well and will get better. I'm glad they held him out this game.

[indyagent17]

23 hours ago, csmopar said:

Toughness*

Sorry I had my contacts out when I wrote this lol

[BlackTiger]

11 hours ago, DougDew said:

  Scripted plays for a running QB got us the lead vs HOU

You can win like that, the eagles did it last year.  You just have a personal biased against running qbs, you act like its the wrong way to play when it did work for AR

[SSColts]

#ForTheMinSHOE

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, BlackTiger said:

You can win like that, the eagles did it last year.  You just have a personal biased against running qbs, you act like its the wrong way to play when it did work for AR

I don't think teams script plays for the whole game, just the first two series.  I'm just pointing out that the good things AR really did in the passing game thus far came on the scripted play drives.  I think its a passing league, so the running talent isn't a consistent winning component without enough passing talents, so there is a reason for the bias.

[ojsglove]

7 hours ago, DougDew said:

This is the third year in a row where Smith has had a bad start to the season.  He usually starts playing better about game 4 or 5.

So we are paying him full time pay for working part time??  What a job.

 

[ojsglove]

On 9/24/2023 at 9:57 PM, kymd82222 said:

Why the "LOL"?  Yes, the Colts won, but Minshew also proved why he's the backup to AR and not the starter.  Both things are true.  Glad we have him as a backup, but there's a reason he's a backup.  His pocket awareness was awful on several occasions. He is limited on what he can do, and his ceiling is nowhere near AR's.  Love him as a backup, but AR is clearly the guy when he gets healthy.  

I agree that AR is our guy, that's obviously why we drafted him, lol.  Minshew performed as well, and better than many of the starters I've seen, so far in the first 2 games this season.  I think if AR can stay healthy, we are set at the QB position for a long time, but after today's game, I am comfortable with Minshew coming in.

[Mighty Blue]

On 9/24/2023 at 4:55 PM, newjagscity said:

You guys can win with the Shew. Had we had any kind of talent to surround him with, we would have. In fact, I think he gives you your best chace to win this year. AR probably has more upside if he can learn to process as a QB, and keep from getting killed as a runner, but if I were your organization, I'd ride Minshew as long as possible. Yea, he's limited a bit with arm strength, but makes up for that with accuracy and good decision making.  Plenty of time to develop AR without ruining him.

The “Shew”…I like that 

 

Now, I just want to say this…

I do not want to lose anymore to 

Trevor(I can’t wait to do dandruff shampoo commercials with Mahomies and Polamalu) Lawrence 

 

Colts Fans, ROCK LOS against the rams

 

[BlackTiger]

8 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't think teams script plays for the whole game, just the first two series.  I'm just pointing out that the good things AR really did in the passing game thus far came on the scripted play drives.  I think its a passing league, so the running talent isn't a consistent winning component without enough passing talents, so there is a reason for the bias.

 

Its a passing league but you have a weird issue with qbs going "off structure".  You said hurts isnt that talented too when he accounted for 4500 yards last year and has 30 rushing tds in his career. 

 

Its debateable if GM or AR gives us a better chance to win now too.  Minshew is a better game manager for sure but AR also had two TDs that most qbs wouldnt get in less than a half when he played 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, BlackTiger said:

 

Its a passing league but you have a weird issue with qbs going "off structure".  You said hurts isnt that talented too when he accounted for 4500 yards last year and has 30 rushing tds in his career. 

 

Its debateable if GM or AR gives us a better chance to win now too.  Minshew is a better game manager for sure but AR also had two TDs that most qbs wouldnt get in less than a half when he played 

Goodness, misunderstandings all over the place.

 

I don't have a weird issue with off structure.  What I don't  do is place the ability to go off structure over the ability to play within structure.  In-structure is superior to off-structure and the first priority.  Off structure play is not the goal, but the residue of bad in structure play.  

 

Hurts is not a physical specimen in terms of size, speed, agility, compared to football athletes.  Look it up.  Apparently, he's an elite squatter...big deal.  He does not have the strongest arm compared to even "near elite" NFL QBs.  He is not a gifted all around athlete.

 

And none of that has anything to do with how many yards an NFL QB puts up.  You seem to think that because I call him not a gifted athlete and call him a game manager that it is some sort of shot.  No.  Its praise.  

 

As far as AR vs Minshew, I have no opinion...not enough sample size.  But what I see is this:  Before AR started, this entire board thought that Minshew would give us the best chance to win.  Now, after throwing 40 passes to the short and right quadrant of the field in a losing effort, then scoring two TDs on scripted play drives, AR is somehow equal to Minshew in his ability to win games, despite the fact that Minshew has actually scored points through the air and won both games he's played in.  Some may even feel that AR gives us a better shot to win than Minshew.  How does that make sense?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Goodness, misunderstandings all over the place.

 

I don't have a weird issue with off structure.  What I don't  do is place the ability to go off structure over the ability to play within structure.  In-structure is superior to off-structure and the first priority.  Off structure play is not the goal, but the residue of bad in structure play.  

 

Hurts is not a physical specimen in terms of size, speed, agility, compared to football athletes.  Look it up.  Apparently, he's an elite squatter...big deal.  He does not have the strongest arm compared to even "near elite" NFL QBs.  He is not a gifted all around athlete.

 

And none of that has anything to do with how many yards an NFL QB puts up.  You seem to think that because I call him not a gifted athlete and call him a game manager that it is some sort of shot.  No.  Its praise.  

 

As far as AR vs Minshew, I have no opinion...not enough sample size.  But what I see is this:  Before AR started, this entire board thought that Minshew would give us the best chance to win.  Now, after throwing 40 passes to the short and right quadrant of the field in a losing effort, then scoring two TDs on scripted play drives, AR is somehow equal to Minshew in his ability to win games, despite the fact that Minshew has actually scored points through the air and won both games he's played in.  Some may even feel that AR gives us a better shot to win than Minshew.  How does that make sense?

From the short sample size I have seen of AR, he is better than Minshew. Minshew is a great story but even if you look at Sunday's game, we really didn't move the ball that well. Minshew was getting pressured all day because he has limited mobility. He made 1 great pass, that was the TD to Moss, other than that we basically ran the ball and tried to kill clock and relied on our defense and kicking game to win. The 1 pass to Pittman, was all Pittman, he caught that in double coverage. We are lucky it wasn't picked off.

 

Minshew = great backup, average starter is how I see it. Average was good enough on Sunday but our defense was great and so was our Kicker.

 

Also, for the record, I wanted AR to start from day 1 and posted that a lot in here when some others wanted Minshew to start. AR sitting on the bench doesn't do him any good, he needs REPS and needs to get better. You don't do that by holding a clipboard. 

[DougDew]

48 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

From the short sample size I have seen of AR, he is better than Minshew. Minshew is a great story but even if you look at Sunday's game, we really didn't move the ball that well. Minshew was getting pressured all day because he has limited mobility. He made 1 great pass, that was the TD to Moss, other than that we basically ran the ball and tried to kill clock and relied on our defense and kicking game to win. The 1 pass to Pittman, was all Pittman, he caught that in double coverage. We are lucky it wasn't picked off.

 

Minshew = great backup, average starter is how I see it. Average was good enough on Sunday but our defense was great and so was our Kicker.

 

Also, for the record, I wanted AR to start from day 1 and posted that a lot in here when some others wanted Minshew to start. AR sitting on the bench doesn't do him any good, he needs REPS and needs to get better. You don't do that by holding a clipboard. 

Ok, that's your opinion.  Please don't feel a need to defend it in the face of something said to the contrary.  I'm not really interested in debating the point of Minshew vs AR.  I'm looking more about how we are looking at each QB now, after 3 games.

 

I think your observations about Minshew in this game are nothing that we didn't already know going into the season, and most thought that he gave us the best chance to win individual games.  And there is nothing that AR has really done to say that he is a better NFL passer at this point than what we thought, so the idea that he has surpassed Minshew as the best QB for the Colts to win individual games...I don't follow.

 

I like AR and think that we should keep playing him so he develops quicker.  I'm not looking at it from the point of who might win us a game, so the debate isn't even that material.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ok, that's your opinion.  Please don't feel a need to defend it in the face of something said to the contrary.  I'm not really interested in debating the point of Minshew vs AR.  I'm looking more about how we are looking at each QB now, after 3 games.

 

I think your observations about Minshew in this game are nothing that we didn't already know going into the season, and most thought that he gave us the best chance to win individual games.  And there is nothing that AR has really done to say that he is a better NFL passer at this point than what we thought, so the idea that he has surpassed Minshew as the best QB for the Colts to win individual games...I don't follow.

 

I like AR and think that we should keep playing him so he develops quicker.  I'm not looking at it from the point of who might win us a game, so the debate isn't even that material.

Fair enough, from what I have seen, AR keeps defenses off balance because of his mobility. He is also completing over 60% of his passes so far. He just needs to stay healthy. I am pretty sure if you ask any D Coordinator who scares them more between AR and Minshew they would say AR. I like Minshew and could really care less who starts as long as we win so I wasn't trying to debate here, I was just giving my opinion.

[DougDew]

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

could really care less who starts as long as we win

Between the short/right targets in the first game and the scripted plays in the second game, the 60% completion rate feels manufactured to me.  Its a good thing to aid in ARs comfort level and his development, but I think its a bit of a nonobjective number at this point.

 

Before the beginning of the season, most folks just wanted AR to develop, and didn't care much about how many games we win.  You might have changed how you're looking at the season? 

 

I don't care if we win, I just want AR to start and play.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Between the short/right targets in the first game and the scripted plays in the second game, the 60% completion rate feels manufactured to me.  Its a good thing to aid in ARs comfort level and his development, but I think its a bit of a nonobjective number at this point.

 

Before the beginning of the season, most folks just wanted AR to develop, and didn't care much about how many games we win.  You might have changed how you're looking at the season? 

 

I don't care if we win, I just want AR to start and play.

I want AR to start and I want to win. AR sitting on the bench does him no good with his progression. I was just saying if Minshew did start a game here and there and we win, I am not going to complain. 

[BlackTiger]

13 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't have a weird issue with off structure.

Ive read your posts and understood them.  You are super weird about it despite denying it.

[DougDew]

12 hours ago, BlackTiger said:

Ive read your posts and understood them.  You are super weird about it despite denying it.

I value in structure play over off structure play.....by a lot.  Off structure play happens when the play call....in structure....doesn't get executed properly.  Not executing a play properly is not a good thing for an offense...then the QB has to play off-structure to save the play.  Not a good thing at all.

 

I mention it when other comments seem to praise off-structure play as if it has replaced in-structure play as the primary means to run an offense.  They read a lot like in-structure play can't be expected because its beyond an Offense's capabilities, and that's okay.  That's weird.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

It appears that Alec has earned himself forum whipping boy. 
 

he started slow his rookie season, and he has started slow this season, but we saw some catches from him last week vs the ravens. I think Alec gets out of sync when he hasn’t been catching the ball. Almost like he needs to get warmed up, and that’s hard to do when you only get 2 targets per game. I was surprised Pittman held onto that pass, it was a nice grab. But I’m not going to pretend that Pittman hasn’t had the ball knocked out mid catch, similar to what happened to Alec. Give the guy some time. 

[sb41champs]

The most important PERSONAL trait that Gardner Minshew brings to the table is that he DOES NOT try to do more than he knows he is capable of doing.

 

He is a quintessential game manager QB.

 

Kudos on Sunday's performance - and - your "never say never" persona.