Araiza Troubles

[Myles]

59 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

 

To judge this situation, you have to sort out the difference between an incident where a 17 year old girl is walking down the sidewalk innocently going home and is grabbed and dragged behind a building and raped, and a 17 year old girl who chooses to be around 22 year olds and alcohol.  Some may view the latter as a parenting failure and others may simply see her as having an innocent good time where everybody is expected to have the fortitude to pump the brakes at the critical moment. (despite being around alcohol).

 

 

I agree.   And since we don't know anything about her we are just guessing.   Perhaps she was a bad kid who put herself in bad situations.  That would be bad parenting.   Please don't think I am putting the blame on her.   If Araiza did these things it sounds like he did, the victim is not to blame.  Neither good kids nor bad kids deserved to be raped at all.  

[Qwiz]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

The problems with these arguments about sex and morals is that there is a wide variety...shall I say...diverse set of values.  

 

Believe it or not, there are still a whole bunch of people who try to teach their children about virginity before marriage, and no, they are not religious zealots.  And others who believe its unavoidable for 15 or 16 year olds to lose their virginity. 

 

(And then you have what we call a Kentuckian, who avoids that debate by marrying at 15, LOL. ) 

 

To judge this situation, you have to sort out the difference between an incident where a 17 year old girl is walking down the sidewalk innocently going home and is grabbed and dragged behind a building and raped, and a 17 year old girl who chooses to be around 22 year olds and alcohol.  Some may view the latter as a parenting failure and others may simply see her as having an innocent good time where everybody is expected to have the fortitude to pump the brakes at the critical moment. (despite being around alcohol).

 

 

There’s an issue with this thinking though. Whether walking home or at a party drinking, being taken advantage of is never, ever okay. I’m not saying you’re doing this, but it reminds me of people who say “Well she was dressed like that, did she not expect that something would happen to her walking around like that?” And that sort of victim blaming is despicable.  
 

Yes, parenting and instilling values in your kids is of utmost importance. But some kids listen, others don’t. For every school shooting or serial killer that had a bad home life, there are dozens more that were raised just fine and just turned out to be psychopaths on their own accord. I know every one wants someone to blame, but when it comes to sexual assault, only one (or in this case, three or more) should be looked at and held accountable for their actions. Not the victim or their family. 

[Qwiz]

12 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree.   And since we don't know anything about her we are just guessing.   Perhaps she was a bad kid who put herself in bad situations.  That would be bad parenting.   Please don't think I am putting the blame on her.   If Araiza did these things it sounds like he did, the victim is not to blame.  Neither good kids nor bad kids deserved to be raped at all.  

Parents can’t control every facet of their child’s life, especially 17 year olds who have just entered adulthood. And going to a party is hardly enough to be considered “bad”, no? 

[DougDew]

42 minutes ago, Qwiz said:

There’s an issue with this thinking though. Whether walking home or at a party drinking, being taken advantage of is never, ever okay. I’m not saying you’re doing this, but it reminds me of people who say “Well she was dressed like that, did she not expect that something would happen to her walking around like that?” And that sort of victim blaming is despicable.  
 

Yes, parenting and instilling values in your kids is of utmost importance. But some kids listen, others don’t. For every school shooting or serial killer that had a bad home life, there are dozens more that were raised just fine and just turned out to be psychopaths on their own accord. I know every one wants someone to blame, but when it comes to sexual assault, only one (or in this case, three or more) should be looked at and held accountable for their actions. Not the victim or their family. 

Being taken advantage of is never okay.  In this situation,  because the punter had sex with a minor who had alcohol in her system doesn't mean he took advantage of her either.  Losing inhibitions when drunk is something a girl might regret, and the boy may not really notice much at the time.  I mean, if he spiked the drink with intent...like date rape drugs...that's different.  But two people drinking at a party and talking,  things can get out of hand and its not just a one sided fault.   And there seems to be a difference in willingness on her part when he was with her alone, and after he "took her" (by being dragged by the hair against her will?) to the party. 

 

As far as "dressing like that"  BTW, most women's fashion, and men's for that matter, has sex appeal at its root.  The Amish figured that out a long time ago, seems like the Muslims have too.   Its just more difficult for somebody to pump the brakes at the right moment after being incented to go 100 mph up to a point.  Sometimes outfits can be manipulative.

 

All nuances to a situation that I assume the courts would sort out.  Everybody else who tries is going to have some sort of bias no doubt.

[Qwiz]

24 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Being taken advantage of is never okay.  In this situation,  because the punter had sex with a minor who had alcohol in her system doesn't mean he took advantage of her either.  Losing inhibitions when drunk is something a girl might regret, and the boy may not really notice much at the time.  I mean, if he spiked the drink with intent...like date rape drugs...that's different.  But two people drinking at a party and talking,  things can get out of hand and its not just a one sided fault.   And there seems to be a difference in willingness on her part when he was with her alone, and after he "took her" (by being dragged by the hair against her will?) to the party. 

 

As far as "dressing like that"  BTW, most women's fashion, and men's for that matter, has sex appeal at its root.  The Amish figured that out a long time ago, seems like the Muslims have too.   Its just more difficult for somebody to pump the brakes at the right moment after being incented to go 100 mph up to a point.  Sometimes outfits can be manipulative.

 

All nuances to a situation that I assume the courts would sort out.  Everybody else who tries is going to have some sort of bias no doubt.

He gave her a laced up drink and committed statutory rape at the very least. Verifying the age of finding you just met is your responsibility if you’re a person going out and having sex with random people you’ve only just met. Willing or not, the girl is a minor, and the law will always come down on the older person committing the crime. Because they ought to know better. 
 

 If someone saw a girl walking naked down the street, attractive or not they would have no right to force themselves upon her. Outfits don’t dictate consent. A lot of people out there need to learn self-control. 

[jonjon]

12 hours ago, Qwiz said:

He gave her a laced up drink and committed statutory rape at the very least.  

Treating accusations as facts only backs up what people have been saying about the court of public opinion. 

 

Quote

A lot of people out there need to learn self-control. 

I've met my share  to know that's true. Again, cuts both ways.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Qwiz said:

He gave her a laced up drink and committed statutory rape at the very least. Verifying the age of finding you just met is your responsibility if you’re a person going out and having sex with random people you’ve only just met. Willing or not, the girl is a minor, and the law will always come down on the older person committing the crime. Because they ought to know better. 
 

 If someone saw a girl walking naked down the street, attractive or not they would have no right to force themselves upon her. Outfits don’t dictate consent. A lot of people out there need to learn self-control. 

Is it illegal for a minor to have sex with an adult. or just illegal for the adult to have sex with a minor?   Why is that?  What's the basis, that minors are not sexualized by our culture, so only the over 17 year old knows about sex and knows what he's doing and minor is clueless.  Do you believe that about minors today?   

 

Is it illegal for two minors to have sex?  Should they both go to juvy court and juvy prison when found in bed together?  

 

I even think there are old biases built into the laws, let alone public opinion when little facts are known. 

[NFLfan]

18 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

One thing nobody has mentioned in all this, where are the parents in all of this? Now days with the way people are I would not let my 17 year old daughter go to a party around strangers. Technically if people want to say she is a minor at 17 so it is stat Rape, then it is neglect on the parents part because she is 17. The Parents of this child should be brought up on charges because she is 17 not 18. 

 

I don't agree with this statement. What crime did her parents commit? Letting their child go to a party? 

 

I started working (at a restaurant) when I turned 16. I still went to school and on weekends I had that part-time job.  Sometimes I worked late. On some weekends, at 5AM, I was on my way to work which was half a mile from me. If someone hurt me while I was at work or on my way to work, should my parents have gotten charged for allowing me to work?  

 

No, her parents did not do anything wrong.  

 

[csmopar]

22 hours ago, Matty Ice-Ice Baby said:

Kyle Rittenhouse. I’m sure that will get someone seriously “triggered” but he’s a great example of how it’s important to let both sides plead their case before we call the executioner.

 

While I get what you are saying, it’s not exactly an apples to apples comparisons. 
 

 Better comparison would be the case against the Duke players that ultimately ended up being false after weeks and months of being on social media. 
 

that said, that case too, lacked physical evidence. From the sounds of it, there’s plenty in this San Diego case. 

[csmopar]

18 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

One thing nobody has mentioned in all this, where are the parents in all of this? Now days with the way people are I would not let my 17 year old daughter go to a party around strangers. Technically if people want to say she is a minor at 17 so it is stat Rape, then it is neglect on the parents part because she is 17. The Parents of this child should be brought up on charges because she is 17 not 18. 

 

I am so glad I don't have kids, especially a daughter, because if this happened to my daughter and was true I would get him in me =  and it would not be pretty.

 I take it you never found a way to sneak out past curfew after your parents went to bed or lie and say you’re going one place but end up someplace other where you said? 

[NFLfan]

 

8 hours ago, RollerColt said:

No idea. Probably will never know. She could've lied to her parents with the classic "going out with friends". Could've said or done a lot of things. You can't always track your kids unless you implant a GPS in them or track their phone... Especially at 17. As a parent, I just... I don't know. The whole thing makes me sick. So much regret. So many "could have done this" types of thoughts. 

 

We always say as parents we're going to make this, and make sure that... But in the real world, it just doesn't always work that way. We can plan and talk and plan some more, but it all eventually comes down to the choices made. I pray that my daughter will make good choices in the future. But again, all teenagers are prone to making mistakes. In this case, it was one of the worst mistakes they could make. 

 

All I can do with my daughter is try my best to prepare her to not get into those types of situations, and then place my trust in her own abilities. 

 

I agree. And you can only control so much, as each person is an individual and will make their own choices. You instill values in your children and let them make their own choices.

You may be too young to know this Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young song Teach Your Children. It says just that. 

 

 

[NFLfan]

6 hours ago, gspdx said:

 

So would you say we should never hold anyone in jail pending trial since they are innocent until proven guilty?  Just curious.

 

Well said. I cannot wait to read the reply.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Is it illegal for a minor to have sex with an adult. or just illegal for the adult to have sex with a minor?   Why is that?  What's the basis, that minors are not sexualized by our culture, so only the over 17 year old knows about sex and knows what he's doing and minor is clueless.  Do you believe that about minors today?   

 

Is it illegal for two minors to have sex?  Should they both go to juvy court and juvy prison when found in bed together?  

 

I even think there are old biases built into the laws, let alone public opinion when little facts are known. 

See what I said about that Terre Haute case? 
 

yes, you are correct, to a point, the laws are outdated to a degree. But until they are changed, they are what they are. I don’t always agree or like it, but it’s what we have to work with at this time

[DougDew]

18 minutes ago, csmopar said:

See what I said about that Terre Haute case? 
 

yes, you are correct, to a point, the laws are outdated to a degree. But until they are changed, they are what they are. I don’t always agree or like it, but it’s what we have to work with at this time

Agreed.  The judicial system should punish by the law.  The court of public opinion should not also be stuck in the 1950s, but it seems to in those rare times when its convenient.

[Qwiz]

2 hours ago, jonjon said:

Treating accusations as facts only backs up what people have been saying about the court of public opinion. 

 

I've met my share of bimbos to know that's true. Again, cuts both ways.

He literally admitted to having sex with her, told her he probably gave her an STD, then suspiciously stated his name and hung up on her when he finally realized that he was being recorded/monitored. 
 

 The fact you just said “bimbos” and are trying to correlate it with a conversation about men that literally act like animals tells me all I need to know. This isn’t a “But what about us?” sort of situation. 

[WHAM-Bam ThankYou Sam]

24 minutes ago, csmopar said:

While I get what you are saying, it’s not exactly an apples to apples comparisons. 
 

 Better comparison would be the case against the Duke players that ultimately ended up being false after weeks and months of being on social media. 
 

that said, that case too, lacked physical evidence. From the sounds of it, there’s plenty in this San Diego case. 

The reason I use Rittenhouse as example is because he was made out to be this terrible awful terrorist by new channels and influencers on social media before he ever had a chance to tell his side of the story and once his side was shown he was found innocent. I am not defending Matt by any means and if he is guilty I hope someone gives him capital punishment for his crimes, but we don’t know his side the story or any of the details of that night. All we know are the highlights from an 18 year old girl who was intoxicated during the night in question. Also the fact that this is a Civil trial and not a criminal trial doesn’t look good in my eyes. 

[Qwiz]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Is it illegal for a minor to have sex with an adult. or just illegal for the adult to have sex with a minor?   Why is that?  What's the basis, that minors are not sexualized by our culture, so only the over 17 year old knows about sex and knows what he's doing and minor is clueless.  Do you believe that about minors today?   

 

Is it illegal for two minors to have sex?  Should they both go to juvy court and juvy prison when found in bed together?  

 

I even think there are old biases built into the laws, let alone public opinion when little facts are known. 

I mean, it doesn’t really matter what either of us believes about minors, marijuana, alcohol or anything else in that vein. The law is the law and we have to abide by it or else face the punishment.
 

I don’t know if minors having sex is illegal, but I know that receiving nude photos of a minor, even if you are also underage, is enough to be charged for having child pornography. So there’s that I guess. 

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Is it illegal for a minor to have sex with an adult. or just illegal for the adult to have sex with a minor?   Why is that?  What's the basis, that minors are not sexualized by our culture, so only the over 17 year old knows about sex and knows what he's doing and minor is clueless.  Do you believe that about minors today?   

 

Is it illegal for two minors to have sex?  Should they both go to juvy court and juvy prison when found in bed together?  

 

I even think there are old biases built into the laws, let alone public opinion when little facts are known. 

Adults when talking about an 18 year old and a minor at 17 does seem ridiculous if it's consensual.   However,   he was 21, at his house.   If you're having a house party with people you don't know,  you should be checking IDs.   Also her account is one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard.   I can't imagine she is lying to get money.   If she was,  she shouldn't have picked a punter.   That kid is going to spend every dime he got from the bills to pay attorneys.   I'm curious why the criminal investigation is taking so long

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Adults when talking about an 18 year old and a minor at 17 does seem ridiculous if it's consensual.   However,   he was 21, at his house.   If you're having a house party with people you don't know,  you should be checking IDs.   Also her account is one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard.   I can't imagine she is lying to get money.   If she was,  she shouldn't have picked a punter.   That kid is going to spend every dime he got from the bills to pay attorneys.   I'm curious why the criminal investigation is taking so long

Well the average time for a rape kit to come back in the real world is 8-14 months depending on the case. Most labs are under staffed, under funded and sadly, way way behind. The state of Indiana is sitting in hundreds and thousands of rape kits, often over a year old

[GoColts8818]

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When the police show up and ask questions when an incident happens regarding a minor, who are the 1st people they would call after questioning people at a party? Just asking? You already know the answer so no, my question was very legit. 

These police were called to investigate a rape situation not child neglect.  Police departments often have different units to investigate each crime.  So the police who showed up are there to investigate the rape situation and that’s what they are going to do.  If during that process they pick up on signs of neglect I am sure they would pass that along to the proper people but that would be a separate investigation.  I will say allowing your child to go to party alone is not a crime.  Can you argue it’s not the smartest parenting decision ever?  Sure.  Criminal?  Not really.  

[GoColts8818]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not really blaming the parents, partially yes but just ask a simple question about them. Did they know where she was at? Was she with a group of trust worthy friends, just good questions in my book. If I had a daughter I would know all these things and if she wasn't home a certain time, big daddy would be knocking on someone's door 

I’d agree those are fair to ask but your first post came across a little as saying the parents were more to blame than the guys who are accused of this.  I know that’s what took me aback and I think others as well.  These questions are fair to ask and I think this post is getting more at what you were trying to ask in the other one.  Who knows maybe the police did ask them (they probably did as they like to gather as many facts as they can) and maybe they already decided the parents did nothing wrong here?  

[NFLfan]

If one is advocating to prosecute this girl's parents for her going to a party, then all parents should be worried about getting prosecuted for letting their underage children go to parties.

 

I don't know how her parents can be prosecuted for an alleged crime that other people allegedly committed. 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

If one is advocating to prosecute this girl's parents for her going to a party, then all parents should be worried about getting prosecuted for letting their underage children go to parties.

 

I don't know how her parents can be prosecuted for an alleged crime that other people allegedly committed. 

I am sure they are being punished enough

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Adults when talking about an 18 year old and a minor at 17 does seem ridiculous if it's consensual.   However,   he was 21, at his house.   If you're having a house party with people you don't know,  you should be checking IDs.   Also her account is one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard.   I can't imagine she is lying to get money.   If she was,  she shouldn't have picked a punter.   That kid is going to spend every dime he got from the bills to pay attorneys.   I'm curious why the criminal investigation is taking so long

Agreed.  I doubt that they had a very professional system of screening people at a house party.   Also,  with the prevalence of high schoolers routinely breaking the law themselves by drinking, smoking, and taking illegal substances; not getting IDs at a house party seems about as consequential as running a stop sign.   That's the consequence some people think about smoking pot, so why is not collecting IDs at a house party more serous than that?  

 

Some people look old for their age, but the guy at the door should still see a difference between a 17 year old and a 21 year old legal drinker.

 

I don't think she is in it for money either.  After 6 months I think there is a decent chance that part of this is driven by some regret over the choices she made about any sort of consensual activity.  People have a way of protecting their self-esteem by seeing things differently as time passes.  If it comes out as a clear case of rape that's another matter.  I'm skeptical of gang rape of a partially passed out girl.  That's just violent behavior that takes several people to be on the same page together, at a place where they are supposedly there randomly with witnesses.  It doesn't add up like its a hard fact to me.

 

The criminal investigation may not have evidence that can be sorted clearly.   

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Well the average time for a rape kit to come back in the real world is 8-14 months depending on the case. Most labs are under staffed, under funded and sadly, way way behind. The state of Indiana is sitting in hundreds and thousands of rape kits, often over a year old

Not surprising, but still very concerning and sad… 

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Not surprising, but still very concerning and sad… 

Sickening 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, NFLfan said:

If one is advocating to prosecute this girl's parents for her going to a party, then all parents should be worried about getting prosecuted for letting their underage children go to parties.

 

I don't know how her parents can be prosecuted for an alleged crime that other people allegedly committed. 

Nobody is advocating anything. I asked a simple legit question. It is what it is. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

 I take it you never found a way to sneak out past curfew after your parents went to bed or lie and say you’re going one place but end up someplace other where you said? 

When I was 17, I didn't go to parties.

[Myles]

14 hours ago, Qwiz said:

Parents can’t control every facet of their child’s life, especially 17 year olds who have just entered adulthood. And going to a party is hardly enough to be considered “bad”, no? 

Hardly enough to be considered good as well.    Like I said, we do not know anything yet.

[DougDew]

12 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

I don't agree with this statement. What crime did her parents commit? Letting their child go to a party? 

 

I started working (at a restaurant) when I turned 16. I still went to school and on weekends I had that part-time job.  Sometimes I worked late. On some weekends, at 5AM, I was on my way to work which was half a mile from me. If someone hurt me while I was at work or on my way to work, should my parents have gotten charged for allowing me to work?  

 

No, her parents did not do anything wrong.  

 

Its a diverse group we have on this forum, wouldn't you say?

 

Some think the girl's parents are significantly culpable, and others think the girls parents have nothing to do with but might expect the boy's employer to act like his parents and discipline him for personal behavior.  

 

Its good that we can get along.

[RollerColt]

23 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Its a diverse group we have on this forum, wouldn't you say?

 

Some think the girl's parents are significantly culpable, and others think the girls parents have nothing to do with but might expect the boy's employer to act like his parents and discipline him for personal behavior.  

 

Its good that we can get along.

…

 

If the parents knew she was going to a college party, then yes they are at least partially at fault for letting their minor aged daughter go. 
 

The “boys employer” is not at fault for what happened because it happened before the draft. They gave him the benefit of doubt and stood back in July. And did they really discipline him this past week? They didn’t even call him out saying he was guilty. They simply stated they released him to give him a chance to focus on this mess. 

[Myles]

54 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Its a diverse group we have on this forum, wouldn't you say?

 

Some think the girl's parents are significantly culpable, and others think the girls parents have nothing to do with but might expect the boy's employer to act like his parents and discipline him for personal behavior.  

 

Its good that we can get along.

I don't think the parents are "significantly" culpable.   I just think it is possible that they are not good parents.  Not for certain as we know nothing, but they could be.  

 

We know a family that had a daughter the same age as my daughter.  We knew her parents were not great parents.  Almost seemed like the mother lives vicariously through her daughter.  Got her ears pierced at 3 years old.  second and third ear piercings by 10 years old.  Nose pierced at 12.  We could see where this was headed.  The piercings continued going forward.  Dating boys by 13.  Tattoos by the time she was 16 or 17.  Went to many wild parties before she was 18.  Pregnant at 18.   Now she is 24 and working at a gas station.  I blame her parents for most of this.  

[DougDew]

39 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

…

 

If the parents knew she was going to a college party, then yes they are at least partially at fault for letting their minor aged daughter go. 
 

The “boys employer” is not at fault for what happened because it happened before the draft. They gave him the benefit of doubt and stood back in July. And did they really discipline him this past week? They didn’t even call him out saying he was guilty. They simply stated they released him to give him a chance to focus on this mess. 

 

5 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't think the parents are "significantly" culpable.   I just think it is possible that they are not good parents.  Not for certain as we know nothing, but they could be.  

 

We know a family that had a daughter the same age as my daughter.  We knew her parents were not great parents.  Almost seemed like the mother lives vicariously through her daughter.  Got her ears pierced at 3 years old.  second and third ear piercings by 10 years old.  Nose pierced at 12.  We could see where this was headed.  The piercings continued going forward.  Dating boys by 13.  Tattoos by the time she was 16 or 17.  Went to many wild parties before she was 18.  Pregnant at 18.   Now she is 24 and working at a gas station.  I blame her parents for most of this.  

I was just separating what the Bills did, which may be very self serving or pragmatic reasons, from what some comments wanted them to do and why. 

 

I think some were saying that the boy should be fired because of what he did, which strikes me as a parental type of punishing of the boy.  Especially, if the courts do an "unsatisfactory" job of punishing him. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't think the parents are "significantly" culpable.   I just think it is possible that they are not good parents.  Not for certain as we know nothing, but they could be.  

 

We know a family that had a daughter the same age as my daughter.  We knew her parents were not great parents.  Almost seemed like the mother lives vicariously through her daughter.  Got her ears pierced at 3 years old.  second and third ear piercings by 10 years old.  Nose pierced at 12.  We could see where this was headed.  The piercings continued going forward.  Dating boys by 13.  Tattoos by the time she was 16 or 17.  Went to many wild parties before she was 18.  Pregnant at 18.   Now she is 24 and working at a gas station.  I blame her parents for most of this.  

Yeah obviously my question got taken way of context which is actually amazing for how many people are parents in here. I say that because when I was 17 my mom knew where I was at every hour of the day. I told her when I was going to a friends house and would have to call her when I arrived there. Then again at 17, I didn't party or go to parties and drink which at 17 drinking is illegal. My mom raised me right. If I told my mom I was going down the street to play basketball for a couple of hours, she knew where I was at and wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary. With today's technology and having cell phones, if a parent wanted to check on their kid it would be real simple. When I was growing up there were no cell phones even.

 

Could a kid sneak out of a house at midnight and do silly stuff and the parents not know, sure they could and at that point blaming the parents would be dumb. That wasn't my point.

[Nadine]

To all those concerned that posters in this thread are finding this player guilty without due process, I have no idea why you think that or

what anyone said to make you think there are angry rush to judgement without due process people who need to be 'calmed down' because they are triggered or

why you think people wanted the player to be fired before he was actually fired

 

 

I've seen people say that the evidence available is pretty serious

I've seen people list all the ways in which the girl or her parents might be suspicious

i've seen back and forth comparing childhoods and outcomes and parenting

 

I've had to edit out some inflammatory statements and name calling and summary judgements of the 'social media crowd'

 

I'm questioning who, if anyone, is actually 'triggered' here

 

Anyway, this thread is more about social commentary than it is about this particular issue.

 

Thinking that it has probably run its course

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Nadine said:

To all those concerned that posters in this thread are finding this player guilty without due process, I have no idea why you think that or

what anyone said to make you think there are angry rush to judgement without due process people who need to be 'calmed down' because they are triggered or

why you think people wanted the player to be fired before he was actually fired

 

 

I've seen people say that the evidence available is pretty serious

I've seen people list all the ways in which the girl or her parents might be suspicious

i've seen back and forth comparing childhoods and outcomes and parenting

 

I've had to edit out some inflammatory statements and name calling and summary judgements of the 'social media crowd'

 

I'm questioning who, if anyone, is actually 'triggered' here

 

Anyway, this thread is more about social commentary than it is about this particular issue.

 

Thinking that it has probably run its course

I doubt anyone is triggered, with me I just felt like I was getting piled on by just simply questioning the parents. I am over it regarding me 

[gspdx]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah obviously my question got taken way of context which is actually amazing for how many people are parents in here. I say that because when I was 17 my mom knew where I was at every hour of the day. I told her when I was going to a friends house and would have to call her when I arrived there. Then again at 17, I didn't party or go to parties and drink which at 17 drinking is illegal. My mom raised me right. If I told my mom I was going down the street to play basketball for a couple of hours, she knew where I was at and wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary. With today's technology and having cell phones, if a parent wanted to check on their kid it would be real simple. When I was growing up there were no cell phones even.

 

Could a kid sneak out of a house at midnight and do silly stuff and the parents not know, sure they could and at that point blaming the parents would be dumb. That wasn't my point, not even close to my point.

 

I would say wondering some about parenting habits is a reasonable question.  It doesn't necessarily mean the parents are at fault or are bad parents.

 

I had a much different experience than you.  Not to get into too much detail but by the time I was 16 I was coming and going as I pleased.  I went to school, worked 2 jobs, and partied A LOT! On numerous occasions I would be gone from the house with no contact for virtually the whole weekend.  We had a few run-ins with the law and nobody ever questioned my parents parenting.  Should they have?  I am not sure but I can tell you I didn't parent the way they did, but my situation as a parent was different than theirs.  Four angry teens in a blended family made for a pretty tough environment.

 

I will also say when I was in my early 20s in the military everyone knew to stay away from minors.  We knew the most likely outcome was bad and that as the "adult' in the situation we needed to know what other person's age was.  There were times were people didn't follow those rules and I saw people fine themselves in trouble.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Regrading the accusers, innocent until proven guilty but the evidence does look bad. Bills cut the Punt God but after all this Watson stuff every team is probably on edge.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

If the parents knew she was going to a college party, then yes they are at least partially at fault for letting their minor aged daughter go. 

I don't want to stray OT too much here about parenting, but I've always approached the role like kids are being raised to make good decisions when the parents are not around.  We can't hover over them.  Point being that I hope my daughter thinks its awkward for her to go to a party where there are mainly 22 year olds there.  Its only 5 years difference but its a world apart in terms of stage of life for most. 

 

Whenever my daughter leaves the house, I ask the names of the people she expect to see.  If boys are involved, I always ask her how old they are and if they go to her school (if not, how did you meet an older boy from another school?)  She gets my message enough that she knows what decisions would not be approved of and for which will have consequences later.  She could lie about what she's doing, but I'll find out about that at some point.

 

My son is 20 and is a empathetic person.  Partly why I'm giving the boy the benefit of the doubt here is because my son's natural instincts would be to feel sorry for a passed out girl, would want to help her and would try to protect her from others.  I just don't relate to the notion that its natural for boys see her as an opportunity to take advantage of.  

 

I truly think the reason that both of the kids do stuff like this is because the parents don't think its a big deal, they somehow set the tone that certain social conduct is fine...as long as nobody gets hurt or there are no consequences that can't be undone.