Araiza Troubles

[Myles]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I figured I would get piled on for my post but asking the question I asked is legit. It has nothing to do with the victim, I was asking about her parents. When you post things, many can't translate what you are really thinking.  

I agree that is a question that is OK to ask.  Curiosity shouldn't be stifled, even in horrific cases.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

I agree that is a question that is OK to ask.  Curiosity shouldn't be stifled, even in horrific cases.  

Yeah I thought it is a legit question but in here I guess not 

[DougDew]

When it comes to certain social matters, I guess its okay to think someone guilty until he proves himself innocent....its "the seriousness of the charge" don't forget.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/matt-araizas-parents-release-statement-rape-allegations-we-have-all-been-canceled

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

46 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I know people want to believe that the girl or her parents did something wrong.  But, bad things happen to good people sometimes.

 

I recommend listening to season 3 of the podcast gangster capitalism, especially the most recent bonus episode 'Shannon'

 

https://shows.cadence13.com/podcast/gangster-capitalism

 

I highly doubt that anyone thinks she did anything wrong, she is only 17 and young and wants to experience life a little. I don't, I feel bad for her.

[2006Coltsbestever]

40 minutes ago, Myles said:

Of course, but we do not know in this case so it is Ok to ask.   The blame lies on Araiza if he did what they say he did.   

the Duke lacrosse case has caused me to not witch hunt so quickly.  

The evidence here is more overwhelming but how about Brian Banks, that was the worst. That poor guy got his life ruined and did nothing wrong.

[Nadine]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I highly doubt that anyone thinks she did anything wrong, she is only 17 and young and wants to experience life a little. I don't, I feel bad for her.

I know.  Sorry if it seemed like I thought otherwise.

There are people here speaking up for the accused.  I was just trying to say that we can't assume she's at fault or her parents are at fault

 

There's enough here to be suspicious of a lot of parties.  We'll see how it plays out

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Nadine said:

I know.  Sorry if it seemed like I thought otherwise.

There are people here speaking up for the accused.  I was just trying to say that we can't assume she's at fault or her parents are at fault

 

There's enough here to be suspicious of a lot of parties.  We'll see how it plays out

No you are good, I know what you meant and you respect both sides of how people post. 

[DougDew]

From the article I posted earlier:

 

"Salacious rumors grew as fact," added Mr. and Mrs. Araiza. "There are multiple witness reports to deny the claims that are made against him. The legal system is designed to find the facts and make decisions. They should be allowed to that."

[Myles]

42 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The evidence here is more overwhelming but how about Brian Banks, that was the worst. That poor guy got his life ruined and did nothing wrong.

I had to Google Brian Banks.    I don't remember that story.   Tragic.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

I had to Google Brian Banks.    I don't remember that story.   Tragic.  

That was awful. He handled it well though, he is a great person and better than me to be able to handle something like that. If I remember right the Falcons signed him back in 2013 just to sign him and Matt Ryan had a lot to do with that.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I highly doubt that anyone thinks she did anything wrong, she is only 17 and young and wants to experience life a little. I don't, I feel bad for her.

I don't think anybody is suggesting that she did anything wrong, but to have the idea that her "being served" alcohol is somehow a reason to believe a specific boy raped her is unreasonable.

 

If her being served alcohol is a mark against the boy, then I would want to know why did a high school girl want to attend a college party.  (if that's where she got the alcohol).   My guess is that a big part of the reason she went there is because alcohol was being served.   Yet it reads as being solely the boys' fault...as if private college parties Card every person who walks up to the keg and holds their cup out.  Some boys simply fill a girls open cup up before their own out of politeness and then walk back to their friends.

 

Maybe the idea is that she consented easier because she was drunk, so it really wasn't consent?  I'm not sure that I buy that.

 

There is also this notion that she was nearly passed out, in and out of consciousness.  I mean, I can't account for every boys sexual turn ons, but a near passed out girl is getting close to necrophilia, and I don't think its that common for males to go there.  Passed out girls aren't really a turn on for the vast majority of boys, IMO.  ( And a person has to have a pretty malicious view of the male version of the species to believe that, IMO)

 

So far, the support for the accusations are just dripping with bias and extremism, IMO.  That doesn't mean that he didn't do it.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

34 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I can't figure why some folks need to form opinions about things so quickly.  I think some are simply very judgmental people by nature so they need to know all of the details about stuff as soon as possible.  Judging others is a part of life I guess.

 

The impartial third party judicial system takes a long time.  Let it play out before you make any opinions or take any severe actions.  Geez.

 

A nonimpartial judicial system can wrap things up in an hour if it wanted to.

I lot of things were gross for me.

I almost gave you a laugh with the gross part. Oh when I was 16/17 I was intrigued by a lot of stuff. I was raised the right the way though and just played sports and hung around my house. I didn't want to disappoint my mom I guess. When I was 16, I dated a senior who was 18 for a few months by the way and nobody thought anything of it. My friends all played sports and we were more focused trading football cards at 16/17 then going out and partying. My best friend was a huge Dolphins fan and had like 50 Dan Marino cards.  . He traded me 3 Eric Dickerson cards for a Dan Marino card one time.

 

As an adult I have parted a lot but have always been responsible and been aware of my surroundings. When you drink you have to maintain otherwise bad things could happen unfortunately.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Disagreeing with what you said doesn’t mean I have a problem with you.

Wasn't sure because you are one of the few that disagree's with me a lot lately  . I was like what the hell did I do to you (sarcasm). It is good you have your own opinions, I just don't want to be put in a light as guy that seems like a bad guy or not sympathetic to the girl because I question some things about this incident. 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Wasn't sure because you are one of the few that disagree's with me a lot lately  . I was like what the hell did I do to you (sarcasm). It is good you have your own opinions, I just don't want to be put in a light as guy that seems like a bad guy or not sympathetic to the girl because I question some things about this incident. 

Not saying you are.  Just had a difference of opinions with you.  Has nothing to do with you personally.

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Disagreeing with what you said doesn’t mean I have a problem with you.

All I said was wow.  If you feel that is piling on you I don’t know what to tell you.

Wow is only 1 word but pretty telling. That told me that you think I was out of my mind. If I tell someone 'wow' that means I think they are crazy pretty much. 

[GoColts8818]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Wow is only 1 word but pretty telling. That told me that you think I was out of my mind. If I tell someone 'wow' that means I think they are crazy pretty much. 

Yeah because the last people I was thinking to blame here are the parents and wasn’t interested in having a long drawn out back and fourth over it.  You have your concerns, which is fine, I was just a little a taken back by it that is all.  It doesn’t mean I think you are crazy.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yeah because the last people I was thinking to blame here are the parents and wasn’t interested in having a long drawn out back and fourth over it.  You have your concerns, which is fine, I was just a little a taken back by it that is all.  It doesn’t mean I think you are crazy.  

It is cool but I thought it was a legit question and why you wouldn't think it was just surprised me. When I was 17, my mom was always wanting to know where I was at, what I was doing, etc.. I guess others beat to their own drum. Thank God I had a mom like I had and still have. 

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is cool but I thought it was a legit question and why you wouldn't think it was just surprised me. When I was 17, my mom was always wanting to know where I was at, what I was doing, etc.. I guess others beat to their own drum. Thank God I had a mom like I had and still have. 

Generally speaking when there is a crime like this the police are interested in the guys who did it not the parents.  There may or may not be some corners about neglect with parents (we don’t know the details and let’s not pretend this would be the first 17 year old to do something behind their parents backs) but that’s secondary to the guys who supposedly did this.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Generally speaking when there is a crime like this the police are interested in the guys who did it not the parents.  There may or may not be some corners about neglect with parents (we don’t know the details and let’s not pretend this would be the first 17 year old to do something behind their parents backs) but that’s secondary to the guys who supposedly did this.  

I agree it is secondary but I think of everything, maybe to much to a fault I guess.

[RollerColt]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

One thing nobody has mentioned in all this, where are the parents in all of this? Now days with the way people are I would not let my 17 year old daughter go to a party around strangers. Technically if people want to say she is a minor at 17 so it is stat Rape, then it is neglect on the parents part because she is 17. The Parents of this child should be brought up on charges because she is 17 not 18. 

 

I am so glad I don't have kids, especially a daughter, because if this happened to my daughter and was true I would get him in me =  and it would not be pretty.

You have no idea what kind of personal torment I go through on a daily basis worrying about my 6 year old daughter growing up in this world. 

 

And as someone who works with teenagers on a daily basis, there's a reason that they are classified as minors: They're naïve and do stupid things. Some have common sense at the age of 12, while others barely reach it at the age of 50. 

 

The hardest and scariest part is the fact that eventually I have to let my daughter go and make her own choices. This 17 year old made a bad choice. A very bad choice. You can blame the parents all you want, but just like anything else, we can't be there all the time to prevent everything from happening. 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I almost gave you a laugh with the gross part. Oh when I was 16/17 I was intrigued by a lot of stuff. I was raised the right the way though and just played sports and hung around my house. I didn't want to disappoint my mom I guess. When I was 16, I dated a senior who was 18 for a few months by the way and nobody thought anything of it. My friends all played sports and we were more focused trading football cards at 16/17 then going out and partying. My best friend was a huge Dolphins fan and had like 50 Dan Marino cards.  . He traded me 3 Eric Dickerson cards for a Dan Marino card one time.

 

As an adult I have parted a lot but have always been responsible and been aware of my surroundings. When you drink you have to maintain otherwise bad things could happen unfortunately.

Yeah, not every male is on the prowl for any type of gratification at a moments notice, so I never understood the argument that if a girl is nearly passed out that it makes it more likely somebody had sex with her.  That's a bias that's needed for assuming guilt before the facts come in.   IMO, her being nearly passed out makes it less likely that somebody had sex with her because I don't assume that young men who are about to graduate college are pervs by nature. 

 

Yeah, in cases like this we can all go down the road of making judgments and who is responsible for what.  I wouldn't put any amount of culpability on her for being raped if that's what happened.  But it also doesn't seem to be a situation where she is simply walking down the street going home, innocent to a party that's going on, and someone grabs her and drags her behind the house and rapes her.  A different level of mindsets going on with each person here than that situation, IMO, which then helps to understand the punter's mindset.

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

You have no idea what kind of personal torment I go through on a daily basis worrying about my 6 year old daughter growing up in this world. 

 

And as someone who works with teenagers on a daily basis, there's a reason that they are classified as minors: They're naïve and do stupid things. Some have common sense at the age of 12, while others barely reach it at the age of 50. 

 

The hardest and scariest part is the fact that eventually I have to let my daughter go and make her own choices. This 17 year old made a bad choice. A very bad choice. You can blame the parents all you want, but just like anything else, we can't be there all the time to prevent everything from happening. 

I am not really blaming the parents, partially yes but just ask a simple question about them. Did they know where she was at? Was she with a group of trust worthy friends, just good questions in my book. If I had a daughter I would know all these things and if she wasn't home a certain time, big daddy would be knocking on someone's door 

[RollerColt]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not really blaming the parents, partially yes but just ask a simple question about them. Did they know where she was at? Was she with a group of trust worthy friends, just good questions in my book. If I had a daughter I would know all these things and if she wasn't home a certain time, big daddy would be knocking on someone's door 

No idea. Probably will never know. She could've lied to her parents with the classic "going out with friends". Could've said or done a lot of things. You can't always track your kids unless you implant a GPS in them or track their phone... Especially at 17. As a parent, I just... I don't know. The whole thing makes me sick. So much regret. So many "could have done this" types of thoughts. 

 

We always say as parents we're going to make this, and make sure that... But in the real world, it just doesn't always work that way. We can plan and talk and plan some more, but it all eventually comes down to the choices made. I pray that my daughter will make good choices in the future. But again, all teenagers are prone to making mistakes. In this case, it was one of the worst mistakes they could make. 

 

All I can do with my daughter is try my best to prepare her to not get into those types of situations, and then place my trust in her own abilities. 

[RollerColt]

31 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, not every male is on the prowl for any type of gratification at a moments notice, so I never understood the argument that if a girl is nearly passed out that it makes it more likely somebody had sex with her.  That's a bias that's needed for assuming guilt before the facts come in.   IMO, her being nearly passed out makes it less likely that somebody had sex with her because I don't assume that young men who are about to graduate college are pervs by nature. 

 

Yeah, in cases like this we can all go down the road of making judgments and who is responsible for what.  I wouldn't put any amount of culpability on her for being raped if that's what happened.  But it also doesn't seem to be a situation where she is simply walking down the street going home, innocent to a party that's going on, and someone grabs her and drags her behind the house and rapes her.  A different level of mindsets going on with each person here than that situation, IMO, which then helps to understand the punter's mindset.

Of course not every male is like that. It's sick individuals who would do something like that.  I don't know about you, but it's pretty disgusting to be "sharing" someone like that while "in the moment" if you will. 

 

It should serve as a lesson to everyone, regardless of gender, that you should know your partner before just romping in the hay. Getting it on with a total stranger is just asking for something bad to happen... 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

No idea. Probably will never know. She could've lied to her parents with the classic "going out with friends". Could've said or done a lot of things. You can't always track your kids unless you implant a GPS in them or track their phone... Especially at 17. As a parent, I just... I don't know. The whole thing makes me sick. So much regret. So many "could have done this" types of thoughts. 

 

We always say as parents we're going to make this, and make sure that... But in the real world, it just doesn't always work that way. We can plan and talk and plan some more, but it all eventually comes down to the choices made. I pray that my daughter will make good choices in the future. But again, all teenagers are prone to making mistakes. In this case, it was one of the worst mistakes they could make. 

 

All I can do with my daughter is try my best to prepare her to not get into those types of situations, and then place my trust in her own abilities. 

I think your daughter will be fine because you are a good parent. I have 2 half sisters, one is 37, the other 31 on my dad's side. They rarely went out, both went to college, one is even a nurse. When they did go out or to a party my dad always knew where they were and I even did sometimes lol. My sister who is 31, when she went out in her early 20's would go out with like at least 4 friends and a guy friend and my dad knew where she was and she was even in her 20's. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Just asking questions, I am not blaming her brother.

I know you’re not blaming the girl.   No where did I say you were.  
 

But you’re trashing her parents.  And, as I said, I don’t think anyone knows enough to be doing that at this stage.  And if you look at the thread, I wasn’t alone in thinking you over-reacted to the parents.  Other people thought so too.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

I know you’re not blaming the girl.   No where did I say you were.  
 

But you’re trashing her parents.  And, as I said, I don’t think anyone knows enough to be doing that at this stage.  And if you look at the thread, I wasn’t alone in thinking you over-reacted to the parents.  Other people thought so too.   

Not really trashing her parents. I ask a legit question, I think the word "trashing" is a little much. Now I am stuck trying to explain myself with half dozen posts because I asked 1 simple question  

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not really trashing her parents. I ask a legit question, I think the word "trashing" is a little much. Now I am stuck trying to explain myself with half dozen posts because I asked 1 simple question  

Because it was the WRONG question at the WRONG time.   

[RollerColt]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think your daughter will be fine because you are a good parent. I have 2 half sisters, one is 37, the other 31 on my dad's side. They rarely went out, both went to college, one is even a nurse. When they did go out or to a party my dad always knew where they were and I even did sometimes lol. My sister who is 31, when she went out in her early 20's would go out with like at least 4 friends and a guy friend and my dad knew where she was and she was even in her 20's. 

I try my best. There's no playbook for this parenting stuff... 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Because it was the WRONG question at the WRONG time.   

When the police show up and ask questions when an incident happens regarding a minor, who are the 1st people they would call after questioning people at a party? Just asking? You already know the answer so no, my question was very legit. 

[DougDew]

52 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Of course not every male is like that. It's sick individuals who would do something like that.  I don't know about you, but it's pretty disgusting to be "sharing" someone like that while "in the moment" if you will. 

To me, a passed out girl is a better antidote than a cold shower. 

 

I assume that those who think its common for guys to be that way have an easier time believing the girl.  It seems like a lot of media folks and certain attorney's believe that part of the story...or told her that part of her story would sell easily. 

[Qwiz]

11 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Standing by the guy accused of sexual assault with pretty bad evidence that has come out.  Bold move.  Have fun with that.  

There’s always gotta be that one guy…

[Qwiz]

5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I figured I would get piled on for my post but asking the question I asked is legit. It has nothing to do with the victim, I was asking about her parents. When you post things, many can't translate what you are really thinking.  

Why ask about the parents at all? That sort of insinuates that you believe they could have done something to prevent this incident from happening but failed somehow? 

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, Qwiz said:

Why ask about the parents at all? That sort of insinuates that you believe they could have done something to prevent this incident from happening but failed somehow? 

It could easily be argued that they did fail somehow.   

There is just too much that we don't know.  I think asking lots of questions is a good thing.  

[Qwiz]

27 minutes ago, Myles said:

It could easily be argued that they did fail somehow.   

There is just too much that we don't know.  I think asking lots of questions is a good thing.  

How? If I told my mom that I was spending the night at a friend’s, or going to see a movie, and end up deviating from that and ending up somewhere else completely instead…I just don’t see how that would be my mom’s fault. The only blame here should be on the rapists. Not everything has to be overcomplicated. 

[RollerColt]

8 minutes ago, Qwiz said:

How? If I told my mom that I was spending the night at a friend’s, or going to see a movie, and end up deviating from that and ending up somewhere else completely instead…I just don’t see how that would be my mom’s fault. The only blame here should be on the rapists. Not everything has to be overcomplicated. 

She was a minor, he was a legal adult. That's again why I say it's very important that you know who you are about to engage relations in. Sure, she made a mistake, but he shouldn't have put himself in that situation either. 

[Qwiz]

32 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

She was a minor, he was a legal adult. That's again why I say it's very important that you know who you are about to engage relations in. Sure, she made a mistake, but he shouldn't have put himself in that situation either. 

Yup. Ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law, regardless of whether anyone believes the gang rape  happened or not. 

[gspdx]

19 hours ago, King Colt said:

So treat it as just that instead of piling on the guilty wagon. Innocent until PROVEN guilty

 

So would you say we should never hold anyone in jail pending trial since they are innocent until proven guilty?  Just curious.

[Four2itus]

So what again is the comparison of "framed athletes" numbers who were innocent......to athlete's who got away with sexual assault because of the sport they play and the level that they play at?

 

10 to 1?

100 to 1?

500 to 1?

 

I find the discussion as if this is "six one, half a dozen the other", to be nearing laughable. 

[DougDew]

16 hours ago, Qwiz said:

Why ask about the parents at all? That sort of insinuates that you believe they could have done something to prevent this incident from happening but failed somehow? 

The problems with these arguments about sex and morals is that there is a wide variety...shall I say...diverse set of values.  

 

Believe it or not, there are still a whole bunch of people who try to teach their children about virginity before marriage, and no, they are not religious zealots.  And others who believe its unavoidable for 15 or 16 year olds to lose their virginity. 

 

(And then you have people, who avoids that debate by marrying at 15, LOL. ) 

 

To judge this situation, you have to sort out the difference between an incident where a 17 year old girl is walking down the sidewalk innocently going home and is grabbed and dragged behind a building and raped, and a 17 year old girl who chooses to be around 22 year olds and alcohol.  Some may view the latter as a parenting failure and others may simply see her as having an innocent good time where everybody is expected to have the fortitude to pump the brakes at the critical moment. (despite being around alcohol).