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Araiza Troubles


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2 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

I'm not sure in any of my comments where I said he wasn't innocent. I have absolutely said he is innocent until he is proven guilty as it pertains to the law. I was pretty clear about that.

 

I can assure you I know very well what innocent until proven guilty means as it pertains to the law.

You aren’t reading my posts or you aren’t getting them.  I am not saying you say he wasn’t innocent.  I am saying your suggestion that the public has some duty to abide by innocent until proven guilty is flat out wrong.   

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Just now, GoColts8818 said:

You aren’t reading my posts or you aren’t getting them.  I am not saying you say he wasn’t innocent.  I am saying your suggestion that the public has some duty to abide by innocent until proven guilty is flat out wrong.   

Everyone is entitled to say someone is guilty or innocent, it's not relevant. My point is that the fact that so many people take one side or the other publicly before facts and conclusions can really be decided is in my opinion one of the most destructive aspects in our current society.

 

I also never suggested or said that the public has a duty to abide by it...not sure at all why you came up with that opinion.

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7 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

Everyone is entitled to say someone is guilty or innocent, it's not relevant. My point is that the fact that so many people take one side or the other publicly before facts and conclusions can really be decided is in my opinion one of the most destructive aspects in our current society.

 

I also never suggested or said that the public has a duty to abide by it...not sure at all why you came up with that opinion.

You said he was punished by the Bills for what he did and presented it in away that the Bills were some how wrong for doing so because of innocent until proven guilty and that him being punished by the Bills some how violated his rights of being innocent until proven guilty.  That’s not the case at all.  The Bills had no obligation to wait to “punish” him because of innocent until proven guilty.  Just like no one in the public is bound by that.  
 

It is not one of the most destructive aspects of our current society as others have pointed out the court of public opinion has literally been around forever.  Social media didn’t invent that.  Did it give people a bigger platform to share it?  Sure.  Is that both good and bad?  Sure.  Did it create the court of public opinion?  Not even close.  
 

Also, judging by the responses you are getting I am not the only one taking these things from what you posted.  So if it’s not what you mean I’d look at what I am saying and go how do I make my message clearer because clearly people aren’t getting what I am saying.

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3 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

Everyone is entitled to say someone is guilty or innocent, it's not relevant. My point is that the fact that so many people take one side or the other publicly before facts and conclusions can really be decided is in my opinion one of the most destructive aspects in our current society.

 

I also never suggested or said that the public has a duty to abide by it...not sure at all why you came up with that opinion.

I dont totally agree with this, but I think I understand better what you mean.

 

I think people like me are more focused on the brutal rape and all the trauma that surrounds that, than the trauma the accused might possibly go thru if he is actually innocent. If he is innocent, sure, he should have his name cleared and possibly file a lawsuit to determine damages. 

 

I just dont see the two as even remotely comparable, even if Araiza is innocent.

 

Should I mind my own business? Probably. But I dont think I am a big problem in society if I form an opinion too early and turn out to be wrong. 

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3 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

He’s accursed of said crimes so saying crimes is correct.  No one saying he has been found guilty by a court of those crimes and no one is denying his rights.  No one is doing anything wrong here.  Why are you defending him so hard on this?  The evidence strongly suggests he did this, most notably him confusing to having sex with her and tell her she needs to get checked for a STD.  Given that he’s 21 and she’s 17 that lone is a crime and he’s admitted to it.  That’s why people aren’t backing him on this.

You are going after him not the alleged act.

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19 minutes ago, King Colt said:

So treat it as just that instead of piling on the guilty wagon. Innocent until PROVEN guilty

That.  Is.  Not.  How.  Innocent.  Until.  Proven.  Guilty.  Works.

 

innocent until proven guilty is there to make sure you are not imprisoned without being found guilty of a crime and that you receive a fair trial should you be charged with anything.  He hasn’t been imprisoned and or even charged with anything so he is being treated as innocent as proven guilty.

 

Innocent until proven guilty, was not designed for, does not exist, and will never be used in the court of public opinion.  People can and do look at information that is presented and come to conclusions about if they think someone did something or not ALL the time.  
 

innocent until proven guilty is just like free speech.  Free speech does not give you the right to say whatever you want whenever you want.  It just means the government can’t throw you in prison for what you say.  Private citizens and companies can and do judge people based on what they say all the time.  
 

As for this case most people are looking at the information that has been presented and going there is enough there for me to believe this girl and this is an awful thing that happened.  If you don’t feel that way or feel like what he did wasn’t that bad that’s up to you but you are in the clear minority.  

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54 minutes ago, King Colt said:

So treat it as just that instead of piling on the guilty wagon. Innocent until PROVEN guilty

Read the responses to this “Innocent until proven guilty” rehashing. It’s a saying, not something concrete that people are obligated to abide by, especially when they can see what the cold hard facts/ evidence in a case are leading up to. 

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On 8/27/2022 at 7:32 PM, csmopar said:

Yep. I can personally attest to this. There’s a man doing 5 years in Terre Haute right now cause he had sex with a 16 year old whom he met a club in Indy.. along with HER OWN MOTHER… seemed like a set up but hey, all I could do was take statements. Prosecutors did the rest. They argued it was his responsibility to ensure his partners were of legal age regardless of meeting location or fake id….

 

5 hours ago, Happy2BeHere said:

It also depends on whether or not he "knew" she was 17 or not. I don't know if the girl told him she was of age or not. I also don't know how much either situation impacts the "law" as the judge sees it. Since the law has elasticity by virtue of judges they can interpret it however it seems reasonable based on evidence. Innocent until proven guilty has become somewhat a thing of the past since dawn of social media. Innocent (at the moment) as it pertains to the law....guilty (at the moment) as it pertains to the court of public opinion. 

 

The evidence thus far does NOT look good for him and I'll grant you that. I think the Bills were absolutely stellar in making a decision to cut this guy free. They don't want that liability (legally) and they don't want that liability to lay on the players as a distraction trying to get back to the AFCCG and beyond. My hat's off to the Bills organization for doing the right thing. I can't say the same for the TEXANS or for the BROWNS in regards to Watson...they BOTH screwed that up.

 

5 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Paging @csmopar.

 

He gave an explanation in another thread why rather him knowing if she was under age or not wasn’t going to matter with his expertise of being a former investigator.  Rather than not doing it right I’d ask him to post that again as I think it’s relevant and important.  
 

Also innocent until proven guilty is to make sure your rights are being protected and your aren’t being punished for crimes until you are convicted.  To my knowledge neither of those things are being violated here so he is being treated as innocent until proven guilty.  
 

It was never and has never applied to the court of public opinion or things like your job.  Like I used as another example, do you think OJ Simpson is innocent of killing his ex wife and Ron Goldman?  A court didn’t find him guilty so using “innocent until found guilty” logic people should think he’s innocent yet very few do.  

Yep see above^ This is Indiana of course, not sure how CA views it but generally speaking, providing a minor, knowingly or unknowingly, with alcohol and then having sex with them after they lose consciousness is rape 99 times out of 100. Especially if it’s at YOUR residence. 

And it’s the legal responsibility of the older person, the person of age, to verify their potential sexual partners age even if both parties fully consent. 
 

i will also add that if her piercings and such were ripped out and she immediately went to police over it, yeah, this isn’t a money grab and this isn’t likely to end well for this punter kid. 
 

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Some random thoughts: 

 

- The Bills didn't release him to punish him, or even because they feel sure he is guilty. They did it to stop a black cloud from looming over a SB contender team on the verge of the start of the season. And frankly, he's just a punter. If this was a star QB I guarantee there'd be way more leeway given (no names come to mind...).  

 

- The general public is very quick to assign guilt (or although rarer, at times innocence) based on their like/dislike of the person and having nothing to do with the facts about the case, of which they have little to none, as we do here. In other words, the general public = *. They can't be bothered with, or are incapable of, rational thought and objectivity; they're too busy having a self-righteous hissy fit, which is all the rage. Such seems to be a growing attitude in this situation, near as I can tell. People are ready to string up him from the nearest tree despite having no idea of what really happened.

 

- Social media/the internet hardly invented or is responsible for this phenomenon, but it is far, far more efficient at fanning the flames than anything that came before it. There's really no comparison. And the mass media corporations are all too happy to oblige, because it's the ultimate "click bait," which means more money in their pockets, and that is ALL they care about. News integrity is a thing of the past, and PS it's just as bad on the "left" as it is on the "right." 

 

- I hope justice is done, though I think some of us disagree on what that means. If he's guilty of the crime, fry him. If she's guilty of lying, fry her. (Symbolically speaking of course! I'm not advocating the chair for either) However the odds of the latter happening are basically zero, as I mentioned before. 

 

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5 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

My question is how or why the Bills Organization didn’t know about the incident at the time they drafted him?

 

   It is being reported that several people knew about it before the draft

Maybe they did and just didn’t care?  I mean they stuck by him and even had him win the punting job after they knew so it’s possible they knew when they drafted him and didn’t think it would turn into this.

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5 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

That.  Is.  Not.  How.  Innocent.  Until.  Proven.  Guilty.  Works.

 

innocent until proven guilty is there to make sure you are not imprisoned without being found guilty of a crime and that you receive a fair trial should you be charged with anything.  He hasn’t been imprisoned and or even charged with anything so he is being treated as innocent as proven guilty.

 

Innocent until proven guilty, was not designed for, does not exist, and will never be used in the court of public opinion.  People can and do look at information that is presented and come to conclusions about if they think someone did something or not ALL the time.  
 

innocent until proven guilty is just like free speech.  Free speech does not give you the right to say whatever you want whenever you want.  It just means the government can’t throw you in prison for what you say.  Private citizens and companies can and do judge people based on what they say all the time.  
 

As for this case most people are looking at the information that has been presented and going there is enough there for me to believe this girl and this is an awful thing that happened.  If you don’t feel that way or feel like what he did wasn’t that bad that’s up to you but you are in the clear minority.  

And damn proud of it!!

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One thing nobody has mentioned in all this, where are the parents in all of this? Now days with the way people are I would not let my 17 year old daughter go to a party around strangers. Technically if people want to say she is a minor at 17 so it is stat Rape, then it is neglect on the parents part because she is 17. The Parents of this child should be brought up on charges because she is 17 not 18. 

 

I am so glad I don't have kids, especially a daughter, because if this happened to my daughter and was true I would get him in me = Angry Homer Simpson GIF by FOX TV and it would not be pretty.

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

One thing nobody has mentioned in all this, where are the parents in all of this? Now days with the way people are I would not let my 17 year old daughter go to a party around strangers. Technically if people want to say she is a minor at 17 so it is stat Rape, then it is neglect on the parents part because she is 17. The Parents of this child should be brought up on charges because she is 17 not 18. 

 

I am so glad I don't have kids, especially a daughter, because if this happened to my daughter and was true I would get him in me = Angry Homer Simpson GIF by FOX TV and it would not be pretty.


Huh?

 

I was out to all hours on the weekends when I was 17.   So were plenty of young women.

 

I don’t think anyone knows nearly enough to be blasting the parents of a young girl who got gang-raped.  

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

One thing nobody has mentioned in all this, where are the parents in all of this? Now days with the way people are I would not let my 17 year old daughter go to a party around strangers. Technically if people want to say she is a minor at 17 so it is stat Rape, then it is neglect on the parents part because she is 17. The Parents of this child should be brought up on charges because she is 17 not 18. 

 

I am so glad I don't have kids, especially a daughter, because if this happened to my daughter and was true I would get him in me = Angry Homer Simpson GIF by FOX TV and it would not be pretty.

Do we know why she was at the party

  even if the SDSU players were strangers(which I highly doubt) I bet she knew someone there

 

      The are so many factors the we should and will never know about

 

 

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1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:


Huh?

 

I was out to all hours on the weekends when I was 17.   So were plenty of young women.

 

I don’t think anyone knows nearly enough to be blasting the parents of a young girl who got gang-raped.  

I never did any of that but I was a Teacher’s Kid in a small town 

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17 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I never did any of that but I was a Teacher’s Kid in a small town 


I wasn’t doing anything either.   I was a pretty conservative kid.  But in my teen years plenty of us were pushing boundaries and staying out late.   The curfew was pushed back from midnight to 1a.   I wasn’t drinking or doing drugs or much of anything to get into serious trouble.    I think CBE jumped to conclusions. 

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5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

One thing nobody has mentioned in all this, where are the parents in all of this? Now days with the way people are I would not let my 17 year old daughter go to a party around strangers. Technically if people want to say she is a minor at 17 so it is stat Rape, then it is neglect on the parents part because she is 17. The Parents of this child should be brought up on charges because she is 17 not 18. 

 

I am so glad I don't have kids, especially a daughter, because if this happened to my daughter and was true I would get him in me = Angry Homer Simpson GIF by FOX TV and it would not be pretty.

I somewhat agree.   I'd have to see what the girl looks like before throwing blame on the parents though.

I have 2 daughters and we were sable to raise them and keep an eye on them to avoid any potentially harmful situations.  

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5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


Huh?

 

I was out to all hours on the weekends when I was 17.   So were plenty of young women.

 

I don’t think anyone knows nearly enough to be blasting the parents of a young girl who got gang-raped.  

When I was 17 I was playing basketball and concentrating on sports and never partied. I didn't start going out until I was 21 and when I went out it was with a group of people I knew. I am not blaming her for getting gang-raped (good grief) but I haven't heard 1 thing from the parents in this whole thing, she is freakin 17.

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14 hours ago, Goatface Killah said:

But youre implying there was a time when it actually existed. Social media has nothing to do with this. Social media just gives people more reach.

 

I gave 2 examples from the past. I could give you countless others from any time period. 

 

You just cant regulate opinions in a free society. People are gonna speculate on his guilt.

 

Im starting to wonder if people really like freedom that much? Freedom means tolerating other people as much as living the way you want to live.

burn the witch halloween GIF

 

Here is another one. 

 

I will say that there is a bizarre cult of people obsessed with crime as drama.  There has been both an upside and a downside to it. 

 

And I agree, people are increasingly intolerant of any kind of disagreement. It's kind of terrifying really

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5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


I wasn’t doing anything either.   I was a pretty conservative kid.  But in my teen years plenty of us were pushing boundaries and staying out late.   The curfew was pushed back from midnight to 1a.   I wasn’t drinking or doing drugs or much of anything to get into serious trouble.    I think CBE jumped to conclusions. 

Just asking questions, I am not blaming her brother.

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6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

One thing nobody has mentioned in all this, where are the parents in all of this? Now days with the way people are I would not let my 17 year old daughter go to a party around strangers. Technically if people want to say she is a minor at 17 so it is stat Rape, then it is neglect on the parents part because she is 17. The Parents of this child should be brought up on charges because she is 17 not 18. 

 

I am so glad I don't have kids, especially a daughter, because if this happened to my daughter and was true I would get him in me = Angry Homer Simpson GIF by FOX TV and it would not be pretty.

I know people want to believe that the girl or her parents did something wrong.  But, bad things happen to good people sometimes.

 

I recommend listening to season 3 of the podcast gangster capitalism, especially the most recent bonus episode 'Shannon'

 

https://shows.cadence13.com/podcast/gangster-capitalism

 

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Just now, Nadine said:

I know people want to believe that the girl or her parents did something wrong.  But, bad things happen to good people sometimes.

 

I recommend listening to season 3 of the podcast gangster capitalism, especially the most recent bonus episode 'Shannon'

 

https://shows.cadence13.com/podcast/gangster-capitalism

 

I don't think she did anything wrong, she was raped by the evidence. I was just asking where were the parents in all of this? She is 17 and is a minor.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't think she did anything wrong, she was raped by the evidence. I was just asking where were the parents in all of this? She is 17 and is a minor.

 

I don't know but I don't presume they didn't do their best to protect their daughter

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5 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I know people want to believe that the girl or her parents did something wrong.  But, bad things happen to good people sometimes.

 

 

 

Of course, but we do not know in this case so it is Ok to ask.   The blame lies on Araiza if he did what they say he did.   

the Duke lacrosse case has caused me to not witch hunt so quickly.  

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