Which of These Will Happen First?

[sb41champs]

Which of these will happen first - between the opening of training camp and game 1 of the regular season:

 

1.  Quenton Nelson gets a new contract

2.  Braden Smith restructures his contract to free up cap space

3.  Kenny Moore gets an extension and a pay raise by restructuring his contract

4.  Two or more Colts restructure their contracts to free up cap space

[CR91]

Well I don't see the need to free up cap space unless we're signing another player. I think we're still at like 12 mil last time I checked spotrac. Nelson I can see us re-signing, but I can also see the colts letting him play out his contract and then tagging him

[DaColts85]

5 hours ago, CR91 said:

Well I don't see the need to free up cap space unless we're signing another player. I think we're still at like 12 mil last time I checked spotrac. Nelson I can see us re-signing, but I can also see the colts letting him play out his contract and then tagging him

I think Nelson gets his extension before the season but the structure it with all new money. He plays on his 5th year option money this year though imo. 

[GoColts8818]

I say 1.  I don’t see the others happening.

[Solid84]

I'm guessing 1. I don't think we need to restructure any contracts unless we sign a pricey FA out of no where.

[EastStreet]

Nelson will happen 1st. 

If an injury to a major contributor happens in TC, then 2 or 4 might happen. 

Have no idea what happens to Moore's situation, but for whatever reason I just can't see Ballard caving with 2 years remaining.

[w87r]

25 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Nelson will happen 1st. 

If an injury to a major contributor happens in TC, then 2 or 4 might happen. 

Have no idea what happens to Moore's situation, but for whatever reason I just can't see Ballard caving with 2 years remaining.

This.

 

Nelson needs to get done.(Although probably be cheaper to play out deal and Franchise, but that is no way to treat one of your best players)

No real immediate need to free up cap space.

Don't see Moore getting a new deal this year. Not saying he isnt3 worth more, but the Colts invested him and gave him good money before he had fully Proven himself. So I feel they have done right by him.

 

He did get cooked by Renfrow in most important game of the season too.

[richard pallo]

I think Nelson gets extended and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s this week.

[Archer]

1

[Bravo]

1 but I could see 3 being a possibility as long as he doesn’t hold out.

[Yoshinator]

1.) I think it happens around training camp, give or take a week. Ballard will pay Nelson.

[EastStreet]

14 hours ago, w87r said:

This.

 

Nelson needs to get done.(Although probably be cheaper to play out deal and Franchise, but that is no way to treat one of your best players)

No real immediate need to free up cap space.

Don't see Moore getting a new deal this year. Not saying he isnt3 worth more, but the Colts invested him and gave him good money before he had fully Proven himself. So I feel they have done right by him.

 

He did get cooked by Renfrow in most important game of the season too.

 

My only concern about Nelson is health (specifically back). Assuming they know real concerns, I think a new deal will get done. If they do however have concerns, might let things play out a little to ensure he's back in the groove. 

 

Agree no need at this point to free up dollars. Best case is that they use whatever is left over to front load an extension (as much as the free cap would allow) for Nelson. A restructure though wouldn't shock me. I think chances for restructures are much higher next season. 

 

Moore got cooked by several vertically. He's elite at NB, very average on the outside. I'm very interested to see if the new new scheme / Gus, somehow change things up and we see him less on the outside this season. Even if you want him playing on the outside some, I think it's good to get his snaps under 90% (good for any DB). 

[AwesomeAustin]

6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

My only concern about Nelson is health (specifically back). Assuming they know real concerns, I think a new deal will get done. If they do however have concerns, might let things play out a little to ensure he's back in the groove. 

 

Agree no need at this point to free up dollars. Best case is that they use whatever is left over to front load an extension (as much as the free cap would allow) for Nelson. A restructure though wouldn't shock me. I think chances for restructures are much higher next season. 

 

Moore got cooked by several vertically. He's elite at NB, very average on the outside. I'm very interested to see if the new new scheme / Gus, somehow change things up and we see him less on the outside this season. Even if you want him playing on the outside some, I think it's good to get his snaps under 90% (good for any DB). 

I can see some restructures, cuts and trades next year.  We only have 16mil in cap space.  Names to watch are Grover, Kelly, Gilmore and Buckner. There is 50mil+ between those 4 players with very little dead cap hit. Leonard and Smith are candidates to be restructured.  Plus the cap should go up some. 
 

Will be interesting to see how Ballard navigates bc it will be his first year with little cap space

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I can see some restructures, cuts and trades next year.  We only have 16mil in cap space.  Names to watch are Grover, Kelly, Gilmore and Buckner. There is 50mil+ between those 4 players with very little dead cap hit. Leonard and Smith are candidates to be restructured.  Plus the cap should go up some. 
 

Will be interesting to see how Ballard navigates bc it will be his first year with little cap space

 Yup, depending where you look, it's either 16 or 23M. 

But that won't go far when you factor Nelson will be extended, and Ngakoue will be a FA. 

 

Best thing for us would be to trade Kelly (start Pinter). If Dayo emerges, he's got 3T size/traits that may lessen the need for Defo. Something likely will need to give next season. Need Raimann to emerge too. 

[AwesomeAustin]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 Yup, depending where you look, it's either 16 or 23M. 

But that won't go far when you factor Nelson will be extended, and Ngakoue will be a FA. 

 

Best thing for us would be to trade Kelly (start Pinter). If Dayo emerges, he's got 3T size/traits that may lessen the need for Defo. Something likely will need to give next season. Need Raimann to emerge too. 

Have you been able to analyze how Buckner projects in this defense?  I get he is an incredible player but is he a $20m a year player with this scheme?
 

 I think it will be really tough to move on from Buckner bc I’m not a fan of Dayo and been open about that. I get the injury but still played 10 games and had 6 tackles.  Granted I think he only played 25% of the snaps but I dont even think we saw glimpses. I just dont see him becoming a player you replace all-pro Deforest Buckner with. Would be great if Im dead wrong about this guy. 

 

Trading Kelly would be a good move. Gotta eat dead cap with him no matter what but if we could get a 4th or 5th that would be great. Same with Stewart, I can see him being a cap casualty just bc we will need cash.  I see Dayo, and the DTs we picked this year allowing that move. Guess we will find out. 

[EastStreet]

49 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Have you been able to analyze how Buckner projects in this defense?  I get he is an incredible player but is he a $20m a year player with this scheme?
 

 I think it will be really tough to move on from Buckner bc I’m not a fan of Dayo and been open about that. I get the injury but still played 10 games and had 6 tackles.  Granted I think he only played 25% of the snaps but I dont even think we saw glimpses. I just dont see him becoming a player you replace all-pro Deforest Buckner with. Would be great if Im dead wrong about this guy. 

 

Trading Kelly would be a good move. Gotta eat dead cap with him no matter what but if we could get a 4th or 5th that would be great. Same with Stewart, I can see him being a cap casualty just bc we will need cash.  I see Dayo, and the DTs we picked this year allowing that move. Guess we will find out. 

 

Buckner is elite however you want to look at it. He's got both high end 3-4 and 4-3 traits. Could play DE in a 3-4 at a high level, or 3T or even Big End in a 4-3. He's simply blessed with size, power, and speed that few are. 

 

That said, he was wasted a bit in Flus's system. He's commented on Gus's system (more one gap up field) as being a breath of fresh air over Flus's (read react 2 gap). We'll see what happens, but you have to like the thought of Defo being able to use his measurables and hit one gap doing a b-line to the QB. 

 

So was he worth it in Flus's D. Probably not. Is he worth it in Gus's scheme. Good chance. Especially with OL trying to fend off both Ngakoue and Paye. 

 

Dayo is an unknown. But he's got great size and power. His athletic traits really stood out on a very mediocre or even poor college football team. Dayo will likely add muscle weight. And he's only an inch shorter than Defo. So while I think he spends most early downs as DE, won't be surprised if he also spends time inside on passing downs. Regardless, I think he has room (ceiling) to really grow into the NFL. Could bust too, but I like his chances at both Big End and 3T (a few years from now). 

 

Kelly is probably the easiest to move on from. Not talking financially, just from a performance/production standpoint. Hope he proves me wrong, but he's simply declined since signing his last contract. And Pinter looked really good at C. And RG is one of the easier spots to replace (wish we would have kept either of our RGs from last season, they both went cheap). 

 

Stewart is harder to replace. NT is an undervalued and diminished position, but a good one is hard to find. He's a good one. We should never really expect big pass rush numbers from a NT. That's not really what they are there for. But unlike some, I don't see either rook playing NT. Neither played the position in college, and neither have NT traits to begin with. Could be wrong, but that's what the film and draft reviews tell me. So unless we intend to sign another NT, or draft one in the 2nd or 3rd ish, I don't see us moving on from Grover. 

[Nickster]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Buckner is elite however you want to look at it. He's got both high end 3-4 and 4-3 traits. Could play DE in a 3-4 at a high level, or 3T or even Big End in a 4-3. He's simply blessed with size, power, and speed that few are. 

 

That said, he was wasted a bit in Flus's system. He's commented on Gus's system (more one gap up field) as being a breath of fresh air over Flus's (read react 2 gap). We'll see what happens, but you have to like the thought of Defo being able to use his measurables and hit one gap doing a b-line to the QB. 

 

So was he worth it in Flus's D. Probably not. Is he worth it in Gus's scheme. Good chance. Especially with OL trying to fend off both Ngakoue and Paye. 

 

Dayo is an unknown. But he's got great size and power. His athletic traits really stood out on a very mediocre or even poor college football team. Dayo will likely add muscle weight. And he's only an inch shorter than Defo. So while I think he spends most early downs as DE, won't be surprised if he also spends time inside on passing downs. Regardless, I think he has room (ceiling) to really grow into the NFL. Could bust too, but I like his chances at both Big End and 3T (a few years from now). 

 

Kelly is probably the easiest to move on from. Not talking financially, just from a performance/production standpoint. Hope he proves me wrong, but he's simply declined since signing his last contract. And Pinter looked really good at C. And RG is one of the easier spots to replace (wish we would have kept either of our RGs from last season, they both went cheap). 

 

Stewart is harder to replace. NT is an undervalued and diminished position, but a good one is hard to find. He's a good one. We should never really expect big pass rush numbers from a NT. That's not really what they are there for. But unlike some, I don't see either rook playing NT. Neither played the position in college, and neither have NT traits to begin with. Could be wrong, but that's what the film and draft reviews tell me. So unless we intend to sign another NT, or draft one in the 2nd or 3rd ish, I don't see us moving on from Grover. 

Yeah gonna need a really good NT with more one gapping.  It’s a nightmare when you don’t get that. Someone’s gotta keep the ILbs clean.

[sb41champs]

On 7/16/2022 at 4:18 PM, CR91 said:

Well I don't see the need to free up cap space unless we're signing another player. I think we're still at like 12 mil last time I checked spotrac. Nelson I can see us re-signing, but I can also see the colts letting him play out his contract and then tagging him

Just because we do have some cap space available - doesn't mean that the front office might not want to add to that total.

 

I personally believe that #3 happens first - followed by #1.

 

Don't forget that when restructuring a contract - the team gives a "signing bonus" for lower pay during the years of the contract.

 

Also remember - that every team is watching the players released by other teams on every cut-down date.  If the Colts see a player they feel can make a significant impact for the Colts - they won't hesitate to sign that player.

 

Always best to have $$$ available ahead of needing it.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is easy. Nelson gets extension. Most likely will happen in next couple weeks.

[NewColtsFan]

Personally, I don’t see how Nelson gets extended without a restructure.   That said, either way, does it really matter?

 

If we can do an an extension for Q without a restructure — great.   Except at that point, we won’t have enough cap space to make 18 weeks of roster moves.   So a restructure from someone will still have to happen in order to do our day to day business all season long. 

So to me, thus us one of those which comes first, the chicken ir the egg moments.   It doesn’t really matter because both eventually have to happen. 

 

[AwesomeAustin]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Personally, I don’t see how Nelson gets extended without a restructure.   That said, either way, does it really matter?

 

If we can do an an extension for Q without a restructure — great.   Except at that point, we won’t have enough cap space to make 18 weeks of roster moves.   So a restructure from someone will still have to happen in order to do our day to day business all season long. 

So to me, thus us one of those which comes first, the chicken ir the egg moments.   It doesn’t really matter because both eventually have to happen. 

 

I believe Ballard has mostly extended players by tacking on their contract onto the end of their current. So a greater cap hit may not go into effect until next year allowing time to do restructuring and cuts. 
 

If any player needs his current contract replaced it would be JT.  Most running back’s 2nd contracts end up being regrettable. Giving him a 3-4yr deal now would be better for us to have him producing at a high level while we are paying him a lot.  Of course you can backload contracts and other tricks.  Im watching that situation bc Im not sure how it should be handled. 

[sb41champs]

5 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I believe Ballard has mostly extended players by tacking on their contract onto the end of their current. So a greater cap hit may not go into effect until next year allowing time to do restructuring and cuts. 
 

If any player needs his current contract replaced it would be JT.  Most running back’s 2nd contracts end up being regrettable. Giving him a 3-4yr deal now would be better for us to have him producing at a high level while we are paying him a lot.  Of course you can backload contracts and other tricks.  Im watching that situation bc Im not sure how it should be handled. 

I don't think you can restructure a rookie contract in it's last year - but - I may be wrong.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 7/16/2022 at 7:41 PM, DaColts85 said:

I think Nelson gets his extension before the season but the structure it with all new money. He plays on his 5th year option money this year though imo. 

I don't. If I am the Colts, I let it play out. If he has another All Pro, I don't think it raises his value much. He is already slotted in that 20 million a year . If he gets injured and has another sub par year, then things change.

[AwesomeAustin]

5 hours ago, sb41champs said:

I don't think you can restructure a rookie contract in it's last year - but - I may be wrong.

You have to wait three years to restructure a drafted rookie contract and 2 years for UDFA. I highly expect there to be hardball by JTs agent next offseason and a possible hold out until a deal is in place. 

[Nickster]

15 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I don't. If I am the Colts, I let it play out. If he has another All Pro, I don't think it raises his value much. He is already slotted in that 20 million a year . If he gets injured and has another sub par year, then things change.

 

The back is something that can go and stay South.  It's been recurring with him which doesn't inspire confidence for me. 

 

The foot injury he had apparently inconsequential long term. 

 

[sb41champs]

16 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

You have to wait three years to restructure a drafted rookie contract and 2 years for UDFA. I highly expect there to be hardball by JTs agent next offseason and a possible hold out until a deal is in place. 

Thanks for reminding me.  Always important to keep one's knowledge up-to-date!!

[AwesomeAustin]

2 hours ago, sb41champs said:

Thanks for reminding me.  Always important to keep one's knowledge up-to-date!!

I had to look it up lol.   I believe you can renegotiate a players 2nd contract when there are 2 years left but can restructure at any time. Im sure there are a bunch more rules and dont try to dive deep into it anymore. 

[EastStreet]

On 7/19/2022 at 8:38 AM, Nickster said:

Yeah gonna need a really good NT with more one gapping.  It’s a nightmare when you don’t get that. Someone’s gotta keep the ILbs clean.

 

I don't think the NT 1 gaps all that much in Gus's scheme. Likely more than we did last year, but not near like a 3T or DE. 

I'd bet 1st down, and short yardage downs are pretty status quo 2 gap read/react for the NT. Now when Grover comes out on 3rd down or just on obvious passing downs in general, I'm sure there will be more 1 gapping. 

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

I don't think the NT 1 gaps all that much in Gus's scheme. Likely more than we did last year, but not near like a 3T or DE. 

I'd bet 1st down, and short yardage downs are pretty status quo 2 gap read/react for the NT. Now when Grover comes out on 3rd down or just on obvious passing downs in general, I'm sure there will be more 1 gapping. 

That’s what I meant.  He’s going to have to own his 2 gaps.

 And keep the will and the Mike clean.  Kwity will be play8ng a bunch of knock em back,too.

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, Nickster said:

That’s what I meant.  He’s going to have to own his 2 gaps.

 And keep the will and the Mike clean.  Kwity will be play8ng a bunch of knock em back,too.

 

I think Paye will be 1 gapping a lot more than he did last season. 

I got so frustrated watching him last season. Not his fault as he was just doing what he was told to do, just hated seeing so much read react instead of inside and outside calls. We wasted so much of Paye and Defo's athleticism last season.