Andrew Luck Effect (When is it time to rebuild?)

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

“Andrew Luck retired unexpectedly so it’s reasonable for the GM to have a roster void of talent at QB, LT, WR, TE, CB and also have 0 pass rushers.” What a wild mindset some of this fan base has. People act like it’s okay for Ballard to neglect obvious needs year after year, so long as we have cap space! Most overrated GM in the NFL.

When you have a top 5 QB just retire and possibly/potentially a top 10 QB of all-time (he was like Mahomes) it would screw any team up for at least 5 years.

[Patagonia Chris]

25 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When you have a top 5 QB just retire and possibly/potentially a top 10 QB of all-time (he was like Mahomes) it would screw any team up for at least 5 years.

A QB retiring prevents you from adequately filling out the rest of the roster? How so? They’ve spent a 4th round pick on a QB (who busted immediately like I said he would) and traded a 1st and 3rd for Wentz. Still more than adequate capital to

address the areas of need I mentioned. Luck retiring lead Ballard to sign Fisher over Leno? I’d love to hear the rationale here. 

[EastStreet]

38 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When you have a top 5 QB just retire and possibly/potentially a top 10 QB of all-time (he was like Mahomes) it would screw any team up for at least 5 years.

Come on man. We're past the Luck excuse. It was valid for the JB year. Less valid each year after.

 

And top 10 all time?

 

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When you have a top 5 QB just retire and possibly/potentially a top 10 QB of all-time (he was like Mahomes) it would screw any team up for at least 5 years.

That excuse worked up until they got Wentz.  They picked their guy and missed.  Now like most teams that miss the coach and GM are on the hot seat.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

That excuse worked up until they got Wentz.  They picked their guy and missed.  Now like most teams that miss the coach and GM are on the hot seat.  

Wentz was a miss and I called it but still Luck messed things up.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Come on man. We're past the Luck excuse. It was valid for the JB year. Less valid each year after.

 

And top 10 all time?

 

He was potentially top 10 of all-time, I said potentially . Didn't say he was anywhere near that because of how his career went down. Most people still have him in the top 60 of all-time and he only he had 4 very good to great years. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

That excuse worked up until they got Wentz.  They picked their guy and missed.  Now like most teams that miss the coach and GM are on the hot seat.  

They did miss, now time to get Jimmy G. or Carr and make up for it without giving up a lot.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

A QB retiring prevents you from adequately filling out the rest of the roster? How so? They’ve spent a 4th round pick on a QB (who busted immediately like I said he would) and traded a 1st and 3rd for Wentz. Still more than adequate capital to

address the areas of need I mentioned. Luck retiring lead Ballard to sign Fisher over Leno? I’d love to hear the rationale here. 

Andrew retiring screwed everything up and you know it, so does everyone in here. He was 53-33 as a starter with 4 playoff wins, without him the Colts have been 31-34 and no playoff wins since he was drafted, Facts are facts 

[SteelCityColt]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's funny how a team finally hits gold, and now they're the paragon of excellence. The Bengals have been forgettable forever. They were bad enough to have the #1 pick when Burrow was available. They've actually been a pretty good drafting team for a while, but they've never had cap issues because they've never had a top notch QB. And funny you mentioned law troubles/personality issues, they lost some top talent to that kind of stuff as well, which has saved them cap space. They basically signed Trey Hendrickson and DJ Reader, and now they're cap experts... Funny stuff to me.

 

Not hating on the Bengals, good for them, they're in great shape. But without Burrow, they'd be the same old mediocre red headed step child of the AFC North. Which is saying something because they're in the same division as the awful Browns.

 

Funny old team the Bengals. I feel they were stuck in a vicious Groundhog day with Dalton at QB and Marvin Lewis coaching. Though I feel that's unfair on Lewis to some degree. Never bad enough to get high picks, never good enough to go deep in the playoffs. They also had to contend with some good Steeler/Ravens teams of course. 

 

There also seems to have been rumours that ownership is "cheap" by NFL standards, not talking player salary or the like, but in ancillary stuff. 

[stitches]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's funny how a team finally hits gold, and now they're the paragon of excellence. The Bengals have been forgettable forever. They were bad enough to have the #1 pick when Burrow was available. They've actually been a pretty good drafting team for a while, but they've never had cap issues because they've never had a top notch QB. And funny you mentioned law troubles/personality issues, they lost some top talent to that kind of stuff as well, which has saved them cap space. They basically signed Trey Hendrickson and DJ Reader, and now they're cap experts... Funny stuff to me.

 

Not hating on the Bengals, good for them, they're in great shape. But without Burrow, they'd be the same old mediocre red headed step child of the AFC North. Which is saying something because they're in the same division as the awful Browns.

It's almost as if there is a position in football that matters so much more than every other position that it can mask a lot of problems and missing pieces... and conversely if you don't have that one nailed, it almost doesn't matter how good you draft at guard or linebacker or running back or any other position really...

 

This is the thing I keep coming back to the more and more I think about our QB escapades - we need a QB to raise the level of this team. We don't need QBs to just be there to hand the ball to Taylor. We don't need QBs to fix so hopefully they won't embarrass you as your starting QB. We don't need caretaker/game manager QB. We need a QB who the moment he steps into the building, he raises the level of the whole team. Think of all the mediocre teams that took a huge step forward when they hit on their QB. This is what we need. Now lets see if Ballard has the same philosophy or he will go for the safe low upside road. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He was potentially top 10 of all-time, I said potentially . Didn't say he was anywhere near that because of how his career went down. Most people still have him in the top 60 of all-time and he only he had 4 very good to great years. 

Most people?    How would anyone know?  
 

Who even does a top-60 anyway?   No one that I know of.    I’m as big of a Luck fan as there is and I have no idea where anyone would rank him.  
 

[AwesomeAustin]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He was potentially top 10 of all-time, I said potentially . Didn't say he was anywhere near that because of how his career went down. Most people still have him in the top 60 of all-time and he only he had 4 very good to great years. 

That’s borderline HOF. Luck has zero chance of making the HOF. He was a very good QB and it would be nice to have them. His play the last year made everyone think they are ready to contend now. What Ballard failed to realize was Luck was masking the holes on the team more than the team was carrying Luck. They thought we were in win now mode and instead of drafting a franchise QB they have tried to band aid it.
 

Brissett extension was dumb.  Buckner trade was the wrong move and Tua, Herbert or Love should have been brought in to learn under Rivers.  Wentz trade was a waste of time and tied up assets.  They have taken 3 shots at starting QBs since Luck and none of them lasted more than a year. This roster is not ready to contend unless we have an elite QB that can cover up holes. Jimmy G and Carr are not those guys. I do like Carr but any more than what we gave for Wentz and It’s not worth it, plus we will need to nail 60-70% of our draft picks for the next 2-3 years. He can’t carry a roster like these other elite QBs can. With Luck we would have made the playoffs with this roster and had a shot at the AFC championship game. I don’t think Carr gets us past the first round. 
 

So yes Luck retiring screwed everything up and then Ballard and Reich were full of themselves thinking they constructed a contending roster and screwed it up even more. To me the Luck excuse doesn’t work anymore...Ballard/Reich need to get their guy and stabilize the position or I promise you heads will start to roll at the end of the season. I’m hoping the plan is a bridge QB to get us through the season so we can fire Reich and bring in a new coach to choose a QB to draft in 23 or 24. 

[indykmj]

7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When you have a top 5 QB just retire and possibly/potentially a top 10 QB of all-time (he was like Mahomes) it would screw any team up for at least 5 years.

 

  Emphasis on 'possibly/potentially'....

 

  He was a long, long,....long way away from that level of attainment.

[Nickster]

15 hours ago, LiveAndLetAddai said:

  As a man. I understand making life changing choices, we all have to put the good before the bad.  Your opinion of how he felt matters not...his only does.  Politely stepping off my soap box.

I never even hinted how Luck felt and specifically said it wasn’t about him personally.  The man didn’t want to play football any more.  Simple as that.

 

the thread is about the effect Luck has had on the team.  And really not Luck personally but Lucks play and career arc disembodied.

[Nickster]

3 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Funny old team the Bengals. I feel they were stuck in a vicious Groundhog day with Dalton at QB and Marvin Lewis coaching. Though I feel that's unfair on Lewis to some degree. Never bad enough to get high picks, never good enough to go deep in the playoffs. They also had to contend with some good Steeler/Ravens teams of course. 

 

There also seems to have been rumours that ownership is "cheap" by NFL standards, not talking player salary or the like, but in ancillary stuff. 

Then you had the year when Burfect should have been arrested.  

[SteelCityColt]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Then you had the year when Burfect should have been arrested.  

 

I'd almost forgotten about that master of the 'Dark Arts'. I also always felt Geno Atkins should have walked and gone to a real contender.

[Patagonia Chris]

6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Andrew retiring screwed everything up and you know it, so does everyone in here. He was 53-33 as a starter with 4 playoff wins, without him the Colts have been 31-34 and no playoff wins since he was drafted, Facts are facts 

I offer a thought out response, give you a chance to speak and your response is basically “just does” and a mic drop gif? So you can’t build a roster unless you have a once in a generation talent at QB? Okay.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I'd almost forgotten about that master of the 'Dark Arts'. I also always felt Geno Atkins should have walked and gone to a real contender.

 

He was an absolute maniac.  Great talent but over the top out of control.

[GoColts8818]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Wentz was a miss and I called it but still Luck messed things up.

Okay?  Nice that you called it but that’s irrelevant to the point.

 

The point is if they invest to bring in a new guy and he doesn’t work they don’t get to use the previous guy retired excuse anymore.  Now it’s about the replacement that they picked not working.  Andrew Luck retiring didn’t make Carson Wentz not work.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Most people?    How would anyone know?  
 

Who even does a top-60 anyway?   No one that I know of.    I’m as big of a Luck fan as there is and I have no idea where anyone would rank him.  
 

There have been a few top 75 lists on different websites and he made the top 60 on a couple. There are only like 30 QB's in the hall of fame.

[coming on strong]

20 hours ago, Nickster said:

Yeah I was more interested in what posters here think.  Jim definitely doesn’t think so.  What do you think ?

Colts need to rebuild it’s just not a good spot to be in right now . It’s a Qb driven league we should know that as colts fans . There is no quick band aid to fix this only the draft works . We have no first and it’s a bad draft for QBs . So even in the best case scenario colts get a Qb in 2023 and have to trade up a massive amount of picks .

 

Colts stars are around 26 with Buckner 28 only Taylor Pittman and Blackmon are young . By the time the rookie gets going it would be 2025 stars from 2018 draft will be pushing 30 and we will need to rebuild anyway without any picks from trading up . 
 

or the colts can get like 5 first rounders from trading their stars get a top 2023 draft pick . Colts could fully rebuild in two years with a franchise guy .
 

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He was potentially top 10 of all-time, I said potentially . Didn't say he was anywhere near that because of how his career went down. Most people still have him in the top 60 of all-time and he only he had 4 very good to great years. 

 

Just like Trevor Lawrence might be top 10 all time 

[2006Coltsbestever]

16 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Just like Trevor Lawrence might be top 10 all time 

Could be but Andrew had 4 very good to great years, set the rookie record for most passing yards, also threw for 40 TD's in a season. He was 53-33 as a starter so he was on his way to moving way up the list. Trevor has yet do anything as a pro. Bad comparison. Burrow would've been a better example or Mahomes of course.

[masterlock]

I'm not sure how a team makes a decision to "rebuild" that is ethical and doesn't involve knowingly taking steps to jeopardize the team's ability to compete. Do they purposely make bad decisions with the hope that failure follows? Do they release good players? I don't think you can just 'decide' to rebuild. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I posted elsewhere what I'd do. 

I wouldn't trade for JG, Carr type QB's that requires big money and more importantly valuable draft picks which could be used to draft a potentially elite QB in this year's OR next year's draft.

I would sign one of the FA QB's like Fitzpatrick, Tribisky, Mariota etc... which aren't much worse if any then a JG, Carr. 

 

I would target a QB in either this year's draft or next year's or both and hope I hit with him as our future QB that can hopefully play at a High Level like Mahomes, Allen, Burrow etc... In a few years.

 

I think & hope Irsay agrees that the colts can still contend in our weak division with one of the less expensive FA QB's while still getting a potentially elite youngster in the drafts.