Wentz’s struggles as of late

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

It’s just funny we don’t see guys like Allen trashed more in the media and Wentz is bashed so bad. He had 3 INT and 120 yards passing against Falcons. That is horrendous and even worse then Wentz against raiders. At least Wentz didn’t turn the ball over. 

 

Josh Allen has way more production through the air and on the ground, and he got trashed pretty good his first two seasons in the league. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Josh Allen has way more production through the air and on the ground, and he got trashed pretty good his first two seasons in the league. 

I know it’s just because Luck retired and we have been searching for a QB but I just kind of laugh how much we all analyze every play of our QB. Did same thing with Jacoby and rivers. 
 

My point is Allen has made some horrendous mistakes this year. If they had been playing a playoff team thdy would of got crushed with 3 INT and 120 yards passing. Luckily Falcons rushing d is bad and they were able to lean on it with Allen playing horrendous. He would be getting killed by us if he was the colts QB. But because he isn’t our problem we don’t care everyone  keeps saying how great he is.

 

I am one that is usually patient. I just don’t over react to a new QB in the system after one year. Then add our weapons are horrible I will be patient and see what happens next season before drawing a definite conclusions.

[richard pallo]

45 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

It’s just funny we don’t see guys like Allen trashed more in the media and Wentz is bashed so bad. He had 3 INT and 120 yards passing against Falcons. That is horrendous and even worse then Wentz against raiders. At least Wentz didn’t turn the ball over. 

The media is enamored with Allen.  His QBR was 17 against the Falcons. Seventeen!  Three interceptions.  Western NY media thinks he’s the second coming of Brady.  His running and scrambling is going to find him on IR sooner rather than later if you ask me.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, richard pallo said:

The media is enamored with Allen.  His QBR was 17 against the Falcons. Seventeen!  Three interceptions.  Western NY media thinks he’s the second coming of Brady.  His running and scrambling is going to find him on IR sooner rather than later if you ask me.  

If they get a running game going consistantly it will help them a ton. Right now they put too much on Allen’s shoulders.

[richard pallo]

Just now, Wentzszn said:

If they get a running game going consistantly it will help them a ton. Right now they put too much on Allen’s shoulders.

True.  They have many designed runs for him which is crazy.  Many designed runs.  He has a lot of interceptions this year too.  You would think those would be coming down.  He’s good but I don’t see great.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

True.  They have many designed runs for him which is crazy.  Many designed runs.  He has a lot of interceptions this year too.  You would think those would be coming down.  He’s good but I don’t see great.

What’s funny as much as everyone trashes Wentz for stupid decisions Allen makes a bunch of stupid one too. Ones your like WTH. I get it he has more passing yards but stupid decisions are stupid decisions.

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

What’s funny as much as everyone trashes Wentz for stupid decisions Allen makes a bunch of stupid one too. Ones your like WTH. I get it he has more passing yards but stupid decisions are stupid decisions.

Better weapons he gets more passing yards.  But stupid decisions a plenty.  Turnovers are killers.  And he has plenty of those.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, richard pallo said:

Better weapons he gets more passing yards.  But stupid decisions a plenty.  Turnovers are killers.  And he has plenty of those.

I am sure he has a lot of fumbles too on top of the 15 INT.

[richard pallo]

12 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I am sure he has a lot of fumbles too on top of the 15 INT.

I think he does but I don’t know the number.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think he does but I don’t know the number.

It’s 8

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, Wentzszn said:

It’s 8

Ouch!!  That’s a lot.  And they rag on Wentz.  Really looking forward to next year when we upgrade his weapons.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, richard pallo said:

Ouch!!  That’s a lot.  And they rag on Wentz.  Really looking forward to next year when we upgrade his weapons.

I think Wentz has had 3. Might be 4 not quite sure. 

[Fisticuffs111]

40 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

What’s funny as much as everyone trashes Wentz for stupid decisions Allen makes a bunch of stupid one too. Ones your like WTH. I get it he has more passing yards but stupid decisions are stupid decisions.

Are you taking these recent posts in this thread as trashing? Then if so, yeah, I guess he’s getting trashed.

 

Personally, most of the criticisms in this thread, today at least, have been more than fair. Mostly talking about his mechanics and decision making, which have been objectively questionable at times.

 

He does get heat quite a bit outside of the fan base, to be fair. But that’s still residual stuff from his last season with the Eagles imo. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Are you taking these recent posts in this thread as trashing? Then if so, yeah, I guess he’s getting trashed.

 

Personally, most of the criticisms in this thread, today at least, have been more than fair. Mostly talking about his mechanics and decision making, which have been objectively questionable at times.

 

He does get heat quite a bit outside of the fan base, to be fair. But that’s still residual stuff from his last season with the Eagles imo. 

I just think it’s funny we analyze every throw. I don’t think I see other fan bases doing it with their QB I mean their are sports writers that write stories after every game basically breaking down every play of Wentz I just think it would be funny to see even the elite QB get stories written about them after every game breaking down every throw. I just think it is a little over the top. Not just talking about this thread or just on here. It seems to be with all the media too.
 

I have said it previously Wentz biggest issue is still his mechanics breaking down a few times a game. That has to be fixed this offseason. I think it will. 

[Fisticuffs111]

12 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I just think it’s funny we analyze every throw. I don’t think I see other fan bases doing it with their QB I mean their are sports writers that write stories after every game basically breaking down every play of Wentz I just think it would be funny to see even the elite QB get stories written about them after every game breaking down every throw. I just think it is a little over the top. Not just talking about this thread or just on here. It seems to be with all the media too.
 

I have said it previously Wentz biggest issue is still his mechanics breaking down a few times a game. That has to be fixed this offseason. I think it will. 

 

I agree that he’s more under a magnifying glass than most guys, but I think it’s kind of fair or at least expected.

 

They’re doing it because he is/was a reclamation project, coming off a legitimately bad season (with many factors leading to it). I think you don’t see that with the Chiefs/Mahomes and the Bills/Allen because those are their guys for the long haul. And while we will definitely have Wentz for another couple seasons, until then he’s definitely gonna be broken down game to game. 
 

I do think it’d be to a lesser degree if we didn’t see some of the same stuff plaguing him. But yeah, he was probably always gonna be scrutinized unless he had an MVP season.

[GoColts8818]

Putting aside the legit concerns people have about Wentz (footwork, decision making, etc) it amazes me how wildly some peoples opinions on Wentz change based on if the Colts win or lose.  If they win he’s a franchise QB and the Colts are set for the next 10 years.  If they lose the Colts would be better off to start a sixth round draft pick rookie who hasn’t taken one meaningful snap to this point in the season.

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, Art_Vandelay said:

 

He was one of the highest graded students as far as I know. I even seem to remember there were rumours in Philly that this was also one of the reasons for the alleged problems in the locker room. In the sense of his mindset was too different compared to most of the other players.

 

Yup, wouldn't doubt it. And keep in mind that we already know that Carson has been asking permission to change receiver routes. The Patmon TD was an augment to Reich's play call. Carson wanted a streak instead of a possession route. Worked like a charm, and utilized Patmon's strength (speed, catching the ball on the move) instead of his weakness (possession route, contested). 

[NewColtsFan]

43 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Putting aside the legit concerns people have about Wentz (footwork, decision making, etc) it amazes me how wildly some peoples opinions on Wentz change based on if the Colts win or lose.  If they win he’s a franchise QB and the Colts are set for the next 10 years.  If they lose the Colts would be better off to start a sixth round draft pick rookie who hasn’t taken one meaningful snap to this point in the season.

Yup!    100 percent. 
 

Real Prisoner of the Moment type stuff.    Not a good place to be…..

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

I agree that he’s more under a magnifying glass than most guys, but I think it’s kind of fair or at least expected.

 

They’re doing it because he is/was a reclamation project, coming off a legitimately bad season (with many factors leading to it). I think you don’t see that with the Chiefs/Mahomes and the Bills/Allen because those are their guys for the long haul. And while we will definitely have Wentz for another couple seasons, until then he’s definitely gonna be broken down game to game. 
 

I do think it’d be to a lesser degree if we didn’t see some of the same stuff plaguing him. But yeah, he was probably always gonna be scrutinized unless he had an MVP season.

We can say he has been pretty much fixed but isn’t all the way fixed yet. I think that’s fair. I just am not going to go with the extreme after one season as some I have seen saying to dump him.

[Fluke_33]

5 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

I re-watched the LV game and because I have it on DVR, I was able to re-wind and take a much closer look.

 

What I observed is that if the first read is there (Pittman), he generally can throw it and connect.

 

If the first read is not there, then he pulls the ball back down and starts shuffling his feet.

 

His feet appear to be out of position to make the second read and throw.

 

At that point, he either makes an off target throw or the pass rush collapses on him and he gets sacked.

 

It happens like that almost every time.

You would think that mistake or breakdown in mechanics would be coached out of him by this point in the season. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

30 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

You would think that mistake or breakdown in mechanics would be coached out of him by this point in the season. 

His mechanics were so bad last season. He did spend some time at Tom House academy over the summer. 80% of it has been fixed. There are still those few times during a game they get wacky.  Hard to really did down and work on them once season starts. I am sure he will do even more this offseason. Doesn’t surprise me with lack of camp ect that they haven’t been completly fixed yet. They were so bad last season. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

23 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Everyone was excited he stepped up in the 4th quarter and made a couple great throws that helped us win. He had 7 quarters of fairly dismal QB'ing prior to that. And the record shows a lot of shady passing over our last 10 games!!!

  Anyone that hasn't observed the many zany decisions, and deluge of wild off balance throws that makes for real concern, is only fooling themselves.

 And noone has pointed out longer, or more frequently than i, that this is a Learning Season for all of our young talent, and for CW.

  And yes Ballard owes our offense a seam running TE, AND a quality, speedy receiver to balance our O. 

 That CW still doesn't trust our receivers enough to throw quick, on time, accurate passes, doesn't bode well for him to do it next year with new teammates! Another learning season? But that is ok, because climbing the mountain to SB WINNING Greatness is hard work, not ordained.

Never said the guy was Andrew Luck but the way Kevin Bowen was talking about him you would think he was Curtis Painter. Very disappointed in Bowen's rant as I held a high opinion of him, unlike him. Some do it in here after a loss as well. Now if we lose to the Jags I can see people tweeting or posting insane stuff. We lost to a Raiders team that was playing for their season and we just came off 2 huge wins. I understand the loss and losses really bother me. Wentz was great in the 4th Qtr at Arizona, if we would've had an average QB we would've lost that game. It is what it is, I look at Wentz and I would take him over QB's like Baker, Tannehill, and even Kirk Cousins, several others as well. The QB's I just named, many people in the media come up with every excuse in the book why they lost, when Wentz loses he gets piled on, comical if you ask me. Bottomline, Wentz is a top 15 QB easily, probably just in the top 10, if you by stats and win shares he is top 10. His stats are better than Tannehill's - look at their TD/INT ratio, Wentz is better. After we win tomorrow most will be saying Wentz is the man. It is about wins/losses, I have said that in here for years. Tannehill is proof of that, nobody ever bags on that dude and he is basically a tad better than a game manager.

[DougDew]

@throwing BBZ  I'm moving your comment from the Fisher thread over to this Wentz thread.

 

For those that have been here for many years they might remember how often i was hammering Luck. Harbaugh made him look like Marino, said he could make "any throw". The guy had trouble throwing a bubble screen accurately his whole rookie season. 

 And his first 3 seasons, if he would even try to hit the open receivers crossing right in front of him rather than hold it for deeper throws, he rarely hit a guy at the numbers and lead him. He threw it high and to the wrong shoulder probably hundreds of times. I found it maddening, so with Wentz i still do. A guy with Wentz's experience, and with his height should be picking teams apart frequently with quick slants and outs. It is timing and placement! What the ___ do these people do in practice??? And if you can't do that JOB, then you are what you are. A mediocrity. A GUY that will have trouble moving the chains passing the ____ ball when that is what the defense is giving you.

 Like WINNING A game when you are asked to pass the ball more than 35 times!!!!
  Maybe Wentz will get much better with a couple more good weapons when he is 31,32,33,...!  Hopefully then we can rattle off Irsays several Super Bowl appearances, maybe some SB wins.

 

I remember the play where Reggie blew out his knee.  It was a crossing route where Luck threw it to Reggie's back shoulder forcing him to turn back when running full speed and he came down awkwardly on his leg.  It was non contact.   My immediate reaction was "Way to go Andrew".  Then the camera showed Luck and he was pounding his helmet with both hands and a terribly grimaced look on his face.   It just happened, MRIs weren't even taken yet.  It looked to me like he was telling himself the exact same thing...."why can't I make these throws".   

 

And that was my opinion leading up to that game, so I agree with your assessment about Luck's ability to place the ball on the short throws since he entered the league (maybe he knew it too, which is why he always looked for long-ish routes?)

 

This was way before Luck had any injury himself.  It wasn't the result of a bad shoulder or anything.

 

I see Wentz' accuracy on the short passes about the same as Luck.  To make short passes work, they need precise ball placement so the catcher can continue his momentum.  Perhaps Wentz thinks he struggles with this level of precision and shy's away from certain throws.   Favors Pittman down field more so than Hines near the LOS?  Hmmm.

 

One thing about Wentz that seems pretty consistent outside of 2019, he takes care of the football.  That's a big deal and should be highly valued, IMO.  I'd rather have incompletions than interceptions.

[MikeCurtis]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 Wentz is a top 15 QB easily, probably just in the top 10, if you by stats and win shares he is top 10. His stats are better than Tannehill's - look at their TD/INT ratio, Wentz is better. After we win tomorrow most will be saying Wentz is the man. It is about wins/losses, I have said that in here for years. Tannehill is proof of that, nobody ever bags on that dude and he is basically a tad better than a game manager.

I agree

 

There are probably 8-9 QBs that Id rather have currently in the NFL  But.......We HAVE WHO WE HAVE

 

Will GB just GIVE us Rodgers ? Will the Chiefs just GIVE us Mahommes ? Will the Chargers just GIVE us Herbert? 

Will the Bengals just GIVE us Burrows?   

 

Exactly WHO and WHERE is this immediate starter, HOF QB, that is readily available to this 2021 NFL Colts team?

 

In the Draft?   History has proven many, many, many, MANY, times that the draft is a lottery ticket for QBs

EVEN if you have a top 10 pick.  - How many times have you personally won the lottery?

 

Do you trade the next 3 years 1st round picks to buy this lottery ticket?

 

In FA?  The Cost to get a top FA QB is usually CRAZY expensive. The ones that are usually available are at the very tail end of their career.... Do you trade away a strong group of developing players to get a temporary fix? 

 

Do you give up first round picks for the next 3 years to get a player that MIGHT have 3 years left? 

 

Reality is a GREAT friend

 

I think we have been spoiled by having a HOF QB for so many years.

 

In regards to Carson, I'm not 100% happy with his play, but...... IMHO, if we get him a WR / TE that can get open

There are a few in the draft that could be in range of our picks checkout WanDale Robinson,

he looks like TY of 4 years ago and a SINGLE FA DE that can add even a LITTLE more pressure.......

This team COULD win it

 

Of course, I would like Carson to be elite.....  Many Indy media folks and fans put Wentz in a comparison battle with Manning 

 

He isnt the QB Manning was , He isnt the QB Mahommes, and Rogers are......  We have to live with that

 

We can STILL win a SB with Wentz as this teams QB

 

We need to build the rest of the team to win with Carson

 

Sorry for my rant...... 

 

 

[CanuckColt]

On 1/3/2022 at 1:15 PM, BProland85 said:

He was very good in the Tampa Bay game for the most part, but basically ever since then, he has gotten worse it seems. The Pats and Raiders games were two of his worst of the year. Is it simply bad play calling on the part of Reich to not design plays to get the ball out of his hands quickly? Or is it a lack of weapons that can get open? Carson has so much talent and I have to believe Reich can get the best out of him again, as opposed to how he’s been playing the last few weeks, outside of a 4th quarter drive in Arizona. 

Gimme a break.

He is playing with tier 2 and tier 2 WRs and TEs.

[GoColts8818]

On 1/3/2022 at 1:15 PM, BProland85 said:

He was very good in the Tampa Bay game for the most part, but basically ever since then, he has gotten worse it seems. The Pats and Raiders games were two of his worst of the year. Is it simply bad play calling on the part of Reich to not design plays to get the ball out of his hands quickly? Or is it a lack of weapons that can get open? Carson has so much talent and I have to believe Reich can get the best out of him again, as opposed to how he’s been playing the last few weeks, outside of a 4th quarter drive in Arizona. 

People like to say he was just good fourth quarter vs Arizona because it supports the narrative of he hasn’t been good for a long period of time.  The thing is if you look at the AZ game he was good for more than the 4th quarter.  He only threw four passes in the 4th.  The reality is that he started very well, had a bad stretch, and then got it back on track at the end.  He was 12 of his first 15 passes including a touchdown to start.  

[Rally5]

On 1/3/2022 at 1:15 PM, BProland85 said:

He was very good in the Tampa Bay game for the most part, but basically ever since then, he has gotten worse it seems. The Pats and Raiders games were two of his worst of the year. Is it simply bad play calling on the part of Reich to not design plays to get the ball out of his hands quickly? Or is it a lack of weapons that can get open? Carson has so much talent and I have to believe Reich can get the best out of him again, as opposed to how he’s been playing the last few weeks, outside of a 4th quarter drive in Arizona. 

My two cents is he has a lot of bad mechanics, a lot of his missed and errant throws can be traced backs to a few things that drive me a little crazy, and I like Carson. First is he drops his elbow (sidearm) unnecessarily at times.  Sometimes this causes his ball to float, he especially likes to do it on the move right.  Next thing I see is he's hesitant to step up into the pocket under pressure and drive the ball down the field, I think he's done better as the season has moved on but forward momentum really matters when driving the ball.  This also contributes to his high release time, it take time to roll versus step up and deliver.  If you watch the pocket there are many times when he should be moving up and instead he is moving out.  Finally, his footwork is a bit irregular at times and accurate throwing starts with your feet.  I think he has an opportunity in the offseason to grind on his fundamentals.  Everything is there for this guy to be elite if he puts the work in, that part will be up to him and how he's coached.

 

[Hoose]

23 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I agree

 

There are probably 8-9 QBs that Id rather have currently in the NFL  But.......We HAVE WHO WE HAVE

 

Will GB just GIVE us Rodgers ? Will the Chiefs just GIVE us Mahommes ? Will the Chargers just GIVE us Herbert? 

Will the Bengals just GIVE us Burrows?   

 

Exactly WHO and WHERE is this immediate starter, HOF QB, that is readily available to this 2021 NFL Colts team?

 

In the Draft?   History has proven many, many, many, MANY, times that the draft is a lottery ticket for QBs

EVEN if you have a top 10 pick.  - How many times have you personally won the lottery?

 

Do you trade the next 3 years 1st round picks to buy this lottery ticket?

 

In FA?  The Cost to get a top FA QB is usually CRAZY expensive. The ones that are usually available are at the very tail end of their career.... Do you trade away a strong group of developing players to get a temporary fix? 

 

Do you give up first round picks for the next 3 years to get a player that MIGHT have 3 years left? 

 

Reality is a GREAT friend

 

I think we have been spoiled by having a HOF QB for so many years.

 

In regards to Carson, I'm not 100% happy with his play, but...... IMHO, if we get him a WR / TE that can get open

There are a few in the draft that could be in range of our picks checkout WanDale Robinson,

he looks like TY of 4 years ago and a SINGLE FA DE that can add even a LITTLE more pressure.......

This team COULD win it

 

Of course, I would like Carson to be elite.....  Many Indy media folks and fans put Wentz in a comparison battle with Manning 

 

He isnt the QB Manning was , He isnt the QB Mahommes, and Rogers are......  We have to live with that

 

We can STILL win a SB with Wentz as this teams QB

 

We need to build the rest of the team to win with Carson

 

Sorry for my rant...... 

 

 

I agree with this post. Wentz can be the long term QB for this team if they just get him some doggone weapons in the passing game. I’m amazed how many posters refuse to acknowledge just how * poor the Colts’ receiving depth truly is. It’s a glaring weakness and Ballard HAS to get this fixed. Imagine this team if Pittman goes down. Other good teams can and regularly do overcome those situations, because they have quality depth. It would crush the Colts; he’s all they have. Nobody is getting open except Pitt and occasionally TY. That’s a problem and one of the chief reasons why the Colts will not go far in the playoffs.
 

Wentz has flaws as many have correctly noted in this discussion. But he’s no worse than a top 15 QB. And that is good enough if the team is built properly. It’s a passing league as we all know. And this team has mediocre receivers. Until that is fixed, the Colts will languish as a “not quite there” team. 

[GoColts8818]

I take back defending him. With the season on the line the last two weeks in two games the Colts should have won he as Curtis Painter awful.  I think the Colts are stuck with him for next year but the QB position is officially a problem.

 

An absolutely pathetic effort all the way around the past two weeks and inexcusable.  Frank is going to have some hard questions to answer to Ballard and Irsay.