Watson story today in SI

[csmopar]

On 3/29/2021 at 9:32 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If women are mistreated or sexually assaulted they really need to come out right away, go to a doctor and file a police report. Women coming out 2/5/10 years later needs to stop. This isn't 1990 anymore. The problem with coming out years later you still have to prove he did something wrong. Is there any DNA proving he did anything? Was there any police reports filed? Any doctors visit's mentioning him doing something? Do any of these women have a witness than seen Watson doing something inappropriate to them? If the answer is no to all of these than I don't see him getting into criminal trouble. If Watson doesn't admit he did anything I don't see how he does. Now the NFL may ban him from playing because of this mess but that is a whole different situation.

I don’t necessarily disagree nor do I agree. As someone who investigated sexual assaults and rapes while on AD, I have seen first hand the fear it leaves in women. Fear, guilt, shame etc. heck I’ve had victims blame themselves even. So I can get the hesitation to file, especially if the perp is famous, rich or perceived powerful with connections.  Now, waiting after 30-40 years, well that’s another issue as it’s happened recently to some powerful people. But on the other hand, I’m not sure how we could ever put a timeline on it. 
 

I will add this though, if the allegations made by someone, in any case, are proven with evidence to be made up and knowingly false claims, the claimee should face the same punishment as the alleged perp would have. 
 

I had a young sergeant who’s career was ruined by a blatantly false allegation of rape. Sadly, his name was plastered by the media all over the area and even in his home town. We proved allegations were made up over the course  of the investigation and a scheme to extort money from him. But it stuck with him. Young man committed suicide 2 years later.

[Myles]

On 4/1/2021 at 6:50 AM, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

Now Watson's lawyers have started finding massage therapists to speak out in favor of Deshaun Watson. This is a mess. I have such mixed feelings about all of this. I want the victims to be telling truth because if they aren't it only makes it that much harder for future victims of sexual abuse to be heard and believed. I also want Watson to be telling the truth. Up until these lawsuits came I think just about everyone had nothing but respect for this young man. He appeared to be one of the faces of the league for the next decade. This is just a very sad situation. My biggest question is why is he having to go get massages on his own? Maybe I don't understand how the sports medicine staffs for NFL teams work but I would think that the team would provide this type of service for the players. If the teams don't offer this type of service why didn't Watson or his agent simply hire a personal masseuse instead of calling seemingly every massage therapist in the greater Houston area? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

I think it was because he was looking for more than a massage.  

I think he probably was inappropriate with many of these women.   Maybe nothing so far out there like rape or anything, but a high profile athlete can have a very big ego and come off worse than he intended (doesn't make it right).  

I don't know if he deserves to have his career ruined because of this, but I don't have pity for him.   One, I don't know if he is guilty or not.  Two, he has $24 million.  Even if he never played ball again, he can live a great life and provide for family without worry.

I just hope we can find some truth to these accusation or prove them false.

[csmopar]

I doubt the league will ban or suspend him unless there’s criminal charges. 

[Valpo2004]

On 3/30/2021 at 4:10 PM, joecolts said:

Chad, this is spot on and I'm in complete agreement with you.  I won't get to deep into my background and work or even the politics and faith I practice.  I will mention that for the past 25 years, I've worked with youth in faith based programs and deepened my own relationship and knowledge of faith during that time as well.  What I've observed is our society is spinning out of control and many have lost sight of morals, values, respect, decency, understanding and love of one another.  Because of that, we have become as you mentioned, de-sensitized.  Our faith and/or respect of self and others has been rocked and pushed back.  I believe all of that plays into the conversation in this thread.  @stitchesand anyone else who have been the victim of this type of crime remain in my thoughts and prayers.  Regardless if you are a believer in God or not, we should all at least respect one another enough not to do the things or similar that this football player is accused of or what someone put stitches through.  It's just wrong.        

 

The problem with that is this stuff happened a lot in the past too, the only difference was it was ignored.  I say this as a fellow believer.

 

Look at the Roman Catholic church.  They had a lot of these problems in the past and they did what everyone else was doing in the past and pretty much ignored it.  Now it's come back to haunt them.

 

Too many people tend to assume that this is some sort of new thing, and people were more chaste in the past.  If that is true it is only because people had to be due to the risks of pregnancy.  But the wealthy who felt invulnerable from those concerns always just sort of did what they want.  Look at the hyper religious age from the middle ages to the 18th century. . . nearly every wealthy guy had his wife and a whole host of mistresses.  Everyone knew and no one cared.  

 

Bill Clinton was not the first US president to cheat on his wife, it was just the first time people actually cared.  And the people that we're the angriest about his immorality we have since found out where also cheating on their wives.  

 

This sort of behavior from Watson and others isn't some new thing that popped up just in the last 50 to 75 years.  And the only culture you need for it to happen is a sense from many that they are invulnerable and they may do as they please.  

[csmopar]

17 hours ago, NFLfan said:

I think what makes some uncomfortable here is that some of the women are asking to be compensated for what happened rather than pursuing criminal charges. 

Eh yes and no. To the causal viewer, absolutely. But for those that have dealt with such things, the burden of proof is different criminal vs civil. I’ve seen several cases we couldn’t prove one way or the other end up in civil court and the allege victim win easily. 
 

you see, in criminal side, amongst other things, the burden of proof is on the prosecution, which is where the whole innocent until proven guilty from the Constitution comes into play. 
 

on the civil side, there is no innocent until proven guilty. The level require to award towards the plaintiff is simplified. 
 

so in cases where evidence is lacking, one way or the other, it’s quite common for these things to end up in civil courts. And honestly, it’s for the best for ALL parties. 

[DiogoSales]

Does anyone else find interesting that this all comes up just when Watson started a "figh" with a NFL Franchise (a billionaire family behind, I mean) ?

 

Not taking anything from those woman, if it's true he needs to pay.

But I'm just curious how this can ruin his career/life at the worst timing possible.

[csmopar]

Just now, DiogoSales said:

Does anyone else find interesting that this all comes up just when Watson started a "figh" with a NFL Franchise (a billionaire family behind, I mean) ?

 

Not taking anything from those woman, if it's true he needs to pay.

But I'm just curious how this can ruin his career/life at the worst timing possible.

I guess if we put on our conspiracy hats, we could theorize that perhaps the Texans knew of these and were shielding it for quite some time and that protection went away when he picked the fight. 
 

 

but we could never prove that. 

1 minute ago, DiogoSales said:

Does anyone else find interesting that this all comes up just when Watson started a "figh" with a NFL Franchise (a billionaire family behind, I mean) ?

 

Not taking anything from those woman, if it's true he needs to pay.

But I'm just curious how this can ruin his career/life at the worst timing possible.

But yes I do

[MPStack]

 

Sux to be a Texans fan!

 

[DiogoSales]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

I guess if we put on our conspiracy hats, we could theorize that perhaps the Texans knew of these and were shielding it for quite some time and that protection went away when he picked the fight. 
 

 

but we could never prove that. 

But yes I do

 

I agree, sounds like a conspiracy theory that probably will never be proved. But the timing is peculiar as I said and we know human being and money dinamics. 

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, DiogoSales said:

 

I agree, sounds like a conspiracy theory that probably will never be proved. But the timing is peculiar as I said and we know human being and money dinamics. 

Yeah. Bottomline is Watson is in a tight spot. Whether or not it destroys his career or affects any potential trade values(which would be the flip side to the conspiracy theory and why the Texans WOULD NOT want this to have come out) remains to be seen. We likely won’t know for a long while. And doubtful before the draft. 
 

question is, if you’re the Texans, do you hold on or try and coax whatever you can given the risk of not getting anything, especially if these do end up being proven true and he does jail time or is suspended or banned. I mean if he’s suspended, jailed or banned, they’re still on the hook for his contract and get nada in return. as would any team taking on that risk

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

question is, if you’re the Texans, do you hold on or try and coax whatever you can given the risk of not getting anything, especially if these do end up being proven true and he does jail time or is suspended or banned. I mean if he’s suspended, jailed or banned, they’re still on the hook for his contract and get nada in return. as would any team taking on that risk

They should and will probably cut him IMO. He was a headache with the demanding a trade, to now being a bigger headache and PR nightmare. 

 

[DiogoSales]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Yeah. Bottomline is Watson is in a tight spot. Whether or not it destroys his career or affects any potential trade values(which would be the flip side to the conspiracy theory and why the Texans WOULD NOT want this to have come out) remains to be seen. We likely won’t know for a long while. And doubtful before the draft. 
 

question is, if you’re the Texans, do you hold on or try and coax whatever you can given the risk of not getting anything, especially if these do end up being proven true and he does jail time or is suspended or banned. I mean if he’s suspended, jailed or banned, they’re still on the hook for his contract and get nada in return. as would any team taking on that risk

 

On the other side, if you're the Texans and you can control the narrative behind the scenes, you just screw up any chances of him leaving and probably knows by now that you can manage the situation and mantain a generational QB on your team.

 

crazy, I know, but humans are crazy.

[Myles]

I don't think religion really is any part of this.   This behavior has been taking place in every group forever.   Christians, non-Christians.  

 

Unfortunately it is part of life.   

[Myles]

36 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Eh yes and no. To the causal viewer, absolutely. But for those that have dealt with such things, the burden of proof is different criminal vs civil. I’ve seen several cases we couldn’t prove one way or the other end up in civil court and the allege victim win easily. 
 

you see, in criminal side, amongst other things, the burden of proof is on the prosecution, which is where the whole innocent until proven guilty from the Constitution comes into play. 
 

on the civil side, there is no innocent until proven guilty. The level require to award towards the plaintiff is simplified. 
 

so in cases where evidence is lacking, one way or the other, it’s quite common for these things to end up in civil courts. And honestly, it’s for the best for ALL parties. 

Not if you are innocent.   Not always I should say.   

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

Not if you are innocent.   Not always I should say.   

Yes/no. There’s things that are admissible in civil court that aren’t in criminal. Heresay rules are different   Evidence rules are different. In some cases, it’s easier to argue or prove innocence in civil cases. Just as it’s also easier to prove guilt. It’ll be intriguing to watch unfold  regardless 

[csmopar]

27 minutes ago, MPStack said:

They should and will probably cut him IMO. He was a headache with the demanding a trade, to now being a bigger headache and PR nightmare. 

 

I agree

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

40 minutes ago, DiogoSales said:

Does anyone else find interesting that this all comes up just when Watson started a "figh" with a NFL Franchise (a billionaire family behind, I mean) ?

 

Not taking anything from those woman, if it's true he needs to pay.

But I'm just curious how this can ruin his career/life at the worst timing possible.

 

There is absolutely no way this came from the Texans organization.  This does nothing but hurt the franchise. These accusations are either going to keep him off the field or lower his trade value so that the Texans get nothing in return for him. I think whether they like it or not both sides are stuck with each other for at least the upcoming season. The only way the Texans are cutting him is if they know he is on his way to jail or some sort of very lengthy suspension.

[ColtJax]

14 minutes ago, Myles said:

Not if you are innocent.   Not always I should say.   

 

And not if you're ganged up on. Facing one is one thing, but when you have 20 saying the same thing it's tough. That's why it's unfair for Watson, the attorney is allowed to basically advertise for "victims" by asking women to join in on a cash grab. So in EVERY case he exposed himself to a massage worker? What??

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I agree

Wouldn't they only cut him if no offer is on the table?

I bet they wished they would have traded him when teams were offering multiple firsts.  

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Wouldn't they only cut him if no offer is on the table?

I bet they wished they would have traded him when teams were offering multiple firsts.  

Yeah but I think there’s not gonna be a trade market until these things are settled. And I don’t see them settled before the end of this month. They’ll be lucky to have them settled by training camp. So they’re gonna have to make a decision on what QB will be under center for them very soon. Whether that is rolling with Watson or someone else.

 

and yeah, I bet they’re wishing they had as well

[FortheWin]

I have had massages done for over 25 years. I have had about 4 people massage me over that time as when I have found someone I like, I stick with them. BTW, I am not an athlete just someone who has struggled with muscle issues my whole life.  When I read this story, it makes me cringe. I cannot image doing that to someone. It seems so bizarre. The person there is trying to help you feel better and you take advantage for your own pleasure. Not sure if it is some type of fetish or what but man it makes my stomach turn.

[Myles]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

That’s a good point as well. All I can think is all the stories about how these pro players end up broke despite making millions. Have sports talent doesn’t equate always to good sense

Is he married?    Any children.    I really know nothing about him outside of football.

[csmopar]

7 minutes ago, Myles said:

Is he married?    Any children.    I really know nothing about him outside of football.

To be honest, I don’t either. I was speaking generally 

[Myles]

26 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

 

If I'm the Texans, I do nothing.  Let him sit out if he wants, get the signing bonus back (any guarantee has the implicit understanding you have to actually show up for work if you're healthy), or let the NFL take steps.  They paid Tyrod Taylor $12M to start, so they have their Qb for this year.  Address Watson next spring when the smoke has cleared.

 

 

I think if I am the GM, I am scrambling to find a team that will give me a 1st round pick and maybe more.   I bet the Patriots would go after him.  

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think if I am the GM, I am scrambling to find a team that will give me a 1st round pick and maybe more.   I bet the Patriots would go after him.  

I think his value has diminished, even before this massage thing.  What owner wants to trade for a player who essentially demands to have ownership responsibilities over choosing the next GM?

 

If I'm the Texans, I do nothing.  I keep him and let him pay his price from either the court system or the NFL, then hope he gets humbled some how from all of this.  Then I'd have a very good NFL QB with the proper focus in his mind/heart under contract and ready to play.   

[DiogoSales]

2 hours ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

There is absolutely no way this came from the Texans organization.  This does nothing but hurt the franchise. These accusations are either going to keep him off the field or lower his trade value so that the Texans get nothing in return for him. I think whether they like it or not both sides are stuck with each other for at least the upcoming season. The only way the Texans are cutting him is if they know he is on his way to jail or some sort of very lengthy suspension.

 

Both sides being stuck with each other is all the Texans want if they know there's nothing there in reality. Just saying.

[chad72]

10 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think if I am the GM, I am scrambling to find a team that will give me a 1st round pick and maybe more.   I bet the Patriots would go after him.  

 

Why? Kraft wants no part of massage parlor jokes and the PR nightmares.

 

They will wait for the dust to settle over a year plus if they want a QB of the future, they'd rather go for a rookie, IMO. They committed only $6 mil. guaranteed to Cam Newton for a reason and they had the chance to take a stab at Stafford, Wentz, Trubisky, Winston and to an extent lure Darnold away from a division rival too. I didn't hear of serious interest in any of those situations (someone can correct me if I am wrong). They spent their money fortifying the support for their QB with WR and TE signings, Cam Newton doesn't have an excuse anymore. It is Cam Newton or rookie for the Patriots, IMO.

 

 

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Why? Kraft wants no part of massage parlor jokes and the PR nightmares.

 

They will wait for the dust to settle over a year plus if they want a QB of the future, they'd rather go for a rookie, IMO. They committed only $6 mil. guaranteed to Cam Newton for a reason and they had the chance to take a stab at Stafford, Wentz, Trubisky, Winston and to an extent lure Darnold away from a division rival too. I didn't hear of serious interest in any of those situations (someone can correct me if I am wrong). They spent their money fortifying the support for their QB with WR and TE signings, Cam Newton doesn't have an excuse anymore. It is Cam Newton or rookie for the Patriots, IMO.

 

 

Trask. 

 

A below the radar Qb who might be the second best Qb from this draft in a few years.

[Myles]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think his value has diminished, even before this massage thing.  What owner wants to trade for a player who essentially demands to have ownership responsibilities over choosing the next GM?

 

If I'm the Texans, I do nothing.  I keep him and let him pay his price from either the court system or the NFL, then hope he gets humbled some how from all of this.  Then I'd have a very good NFL QB with the proper focus in his mind/heart under contract and ready to play.   

I'm not sure that tactic will work with Watson.    I think he would sit to spite the Texans and it would hurt the Texans ,more than it hurts Watson.  He's got $24 million and will be fine if he never plays again.  The Texans aren't gonna be good with Taylor.  

The Patriots have a history of bringing in problem players.   Watson is good enough to make a team look over his issues.

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Trask. 

 

A below the radar Qb who might be the second best Qb from this draft in a few years.

 

Regardless of which direction they go with a rookie QB, they chose where they spent their FA money on clearly, IMO. 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'm not sure that tactic will work with Watson.    I think he would sit to spite the Texans and it would hurt the Texans ,more than it hurts Watson.  He's got $24 million and will be fine if he never plays again.  The Texans aren't gonna be good with Taylor.  

The Patriots have a history of bringing in problem players.   Watson is good enough to make a team look over his issues.

That's fine.  If he wants to retire, he'd have to write a multimillion dollar check back to McNair...the bonus was based upon him showing up for work...Barry Sanders had to return the money....Irsay simply let Luck keep it.

 

He'd be off the books, and the Texans would do better with a Taylor led team than a Watson led team even if they win just 5 games. 

 

I think if he wanted to come back, the Texans would still have his rights and could trade them then.  I don't see how his value would be worse then than it is now.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

3 hours ago, DiogoSales said:

Does anyone else find interesting that this all comes up just when Watson started a "figh" with a NFL Franchise (a billionaire family behind, I mean) ?

 

Not taking anything from those woman, if it's true he needs to pay.

But I'm just curious how this can ruin his career/life at the worst timing possible.

 

The timing of this certainly makes you think it's more than a coincidence. 

[Valpo2004]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

I guess if we put on our conspiracy hats, we could theorize that perhaps the Texans knew of these and were shielding it for quite some time and that protection went away when he picked the fight. 
 

 

but we could never prove that. 

But yes I do

 

I don't think the Texans knew anything.  

 

If I am the Texans and Watson wanted a trade and I know about that, I'm getting rid of him ASAP before the story breaks.  

 

Watson's future in the NFL is now in doubt and they won't be able to trade him.  My understanding is prior to this story breaking they had standing offers of 3 first round picks and 2 starters from some teams.

 

If the Texans knew about this stuff they would have taken one of those deals and ran.  

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

27 minutes ago, DiogoSales said:

 

Both sides being stuck with each other is all the Texans want if they know there's nothing there in reality. Just saying.

But you never want to minimize the value of your assets. You want to make each player look as valuable as possible just in case you do have to make a trade. They control his rights. If he wants to make $30+ million per year he has to do it with them. To try and make him look bad to keep him would be the ultimate in stupid moves.

[DiogoSales]

1 minute ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

But you never want to minimize the value of your assets. You want to make each player look as valuable as possible just in case you do have to make a trade. They control his rights. If he wants to make $30+ million per year he has to do it with them. To try and make him look bad to keep him would be the ultimate in stupid moves.

Agree, youhave a valid point.

My point is that there's no coincidence in life, timing of all this is really something.

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

Just now, DiogoSales said:

Agree, youhave a valid point.

My point is that there's no coincidence in life, timing of all this is really something.

It could just be karma. Karma for a poorly run franchise or karma for a star athlete who possibly did some vile things to multiple women. 

[NFLfan]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

Eh yes and no. To the causal viewer, absolutely. But for those that have dealt with such things, the burden of proof is different criminal vs civil. I’ve seen several cases we couldn’t prove one way or the other end up in civil court and the allege victim win easily. 
 

you see, in criminal side, amongst other things, the burden of proof is on the prosecution, which is where the whole innocent until proven guilty from the Constitution comes into play. 
 

on the civil side, there is no innocent until proven guilty. The level require to award towards the plaintiff is simplified. 
 

so in cases where evidence is lacking, one way or the other, it’s quite common for these things to end up in civil courts. And honestly, it’s for the best for ALL parties. 

 

I know all this. I'm not sure how paying someone changes the situation. If it is to pay for therapy, that makes sense but I am pretty sure that is not what the attorneys were thinking of. 

 

There is a commercial where I am asking for women to come forward and join a civil case if this particular gynecologist engaged in inappropriate sexual talk. My question was how does paying these people change the fact that the gynecologist talked inappropriately. Pressing charges against him or losing his medical license makes more sense. JMO.

[DougDew]

39 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

The timing of this certainly makes you think it's more than a coincidence. 

The Texans have no interest in diminishing Watson's value.  Every body else has an interest in seeing Watson leave HOU.

 

If all of this is fake, its likely perpetrated by Watson himself, the NFL who wants to see Watson play next season, or any team wanting to pry Watson away from the Texans.

 

If he's traded tomorrow through draft day because HOU wants no part of him anymore, look for the charges and accusations to be dropped shortly thereafter and for Watson and the media to go on their merry ways like none of this happened.

[DougDew]

@csmopar, why are you confused?  I've been reading comment suggesting (just conspiracy ideas, I get it, nothing serious, something to talk about), that the Texans would be making this up.  I don't know where that comes from.

 

Why would HOU be doing it?

 

They don't need to have any personal issues on Watson to motivate a trade.  They can just execute it.  Teams want Watson.

 

The only way these stories are fake is because somebody is trying to motivate HOU to trade Watson during draft day, have them tired of dealing with him.  That's the odd timing of this, that its occurring right around draft time.

 

Who would like to see the Texans grow tired of Watson and trade him?   

 

That's who would be behind any fake stories here.  Especially since the "crime" isn't all that incriminating.  It could easily disappear and nobody would think badly of Watson after a few weeks. 

 

Edit:  Acknowledge mistake.  I'll leave this here anyway.

[csmopar]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

@csmopar, why are you confused?  I've been reading comment suggesting (just conspiracy ideas, I get it, nothing serious, something to talk about), that the Texans would be making this up.  I don't know where that comes from.

 

Why would HOU be doing it?

 

They don't need to have any personal issues on Watson to motivate a trade.  They can just execute it.  Teams want Watson.

 

The only way these stories are fake is because somebody is trying to try to motivate HOU to trade Watson during draft day, have them tired of dealing with him.  That's the odd timing of this, that its occurring right around draft time.

 

Who would like to see the Texans grow tired of Watson and trade him?   

 

That's who would be behind any fake stories here.  Especially since the "crime" isn't all that incriminating.  It could easily disappear and nobody would think badly of Watson after a few weeks. 

That was supposed to be a thanks. I fat fingered it