Colts trying to move up to the top 5?

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, stitches said:

According to Trevor Sikkema from The Draft Network teams are not as high on Tua as media seems to be. He just released a 3 round mock and he gives us Tua at 13.

People seem to forget he measured only 6 feet tall at the combine.  Can't always say that just because Russell Wilson isn't even six feet tall, shortness doesn't matter.  It does.

[richard pallo]

I'm in the minority I know but I wouldn't be surprised if we sign Bridgewater.  He's a winner when healthy, he's younger and he'll be cheaper.  Seems like a Ballard move to me.  And we keep all of our picks.  

[EastStreet]

15 hours ago, WifiGuy said:

So Again,    What is the rush to get a QB this yr if Rivers is going to play 1-2 years anyway?

 

We have other needs and there are better players available that would make this team better right now.

It's not rush, it's strategic and common sense.

 

This is likely the highest we'll draft in the foreseeable future, so it's highly unlikely we'd have a better opportunity next year, or the year after. And unless you want a rook to start day 1, it's preferable to have a good bridge/mentor. I suppose you'd prefer to mortgage the future and give up multiple 1st round picks to get in position next year or in 2021?

[WifiGuy]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

It's not rush, it's strategic and common sense.

 

This is likely the highest we'll draft in the foreseeable future, so it's highly unlikely we'd have a better opportunity next year, or the year after. And unless you want a rook to start day 1, it's preferable to have a good bridge/mentor. I suppose you'd prefer to mortgage the future and give up multiple 1st round picks to get in position next year or in 2021?

Nope, I'd take BPA with 13 and roll with JB    That builds the total team.  Then next yr if JB doesn't drastically improve we would have another very high pick, or we could trade up or acquire on via FA/Trade

 

This team is not quite ready to make the  big run for the title yet.  But will be for multiple yrs if we build from the inside out though the draft.

 

The other reason is I don't see any of the QB's besides Tua and Burrow being the answer.  Next yr there will be a minimum of 3 big time QB's available and I sure there will be some surprises that pop up.

 

No sense adding a FA QB unless you think he can win it all with the present team.  Not to mentor a rookie.  Brissett could do that

[OffensivelyPC]

4 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

Nope, I'd take BPA with 13 and roll with JB    That builds the total team.  Then next yr if JB doesn't drastically improve we would have another very high pick, or we could trade up or acquire on via FA/Trade

 

This team is not quite ready to make the  big run for the title yet.  But will be for multiple yrs if we build from the inside out though the draft.

 

The other reason is I don't see any of the QB's besides Tua and Burrow being the answer.  Next yr there will be a minimum of 3 big time QB's available and I sure there will be some surprises that pop up.

 

No sense adding a FA QB unless you think he can win it all with the present team.  Not to mentor a rookie.  Brissett could do that

Before Luck retired, Colts were a popular pick to dethrone the Patriots in a deep playoff run.  It was pretty much the Colts, Chiefs and Patriots.  Oh and Ravens.  Colts might have beenthe least picked of those 4 teams, but being in the top 4 AFC teams is close enough to being ready to make a "run for the title."

[aaron11]

12 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

That builds the total team.

if that works then we wont be picking high enough to get a top 3 qb and will have to give up more than we would now

 

herbert will be as good as the third or 4th best qbs pretty much any year  imo.  lot of mixed opinions on love, i would not trade for him but would take at 13

[stitches]

24 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

Nope, I'd take BPA with 13 and roll with JB    That builds the total team.  Then next yr if JB doesn't drastically improve we would have another very high pick, or we could trade up or acquire on via FA/Trade

 

This team is not quite ready to make the  big run for the title yet.  But will be for multiple yrs if we build from the inside out though the draft.

 

The other reason is I don't see any of the QB's besides Tua and Burrow being the answer.  Next yr there will be a minimum of 3 big time QB's available and I sure there will be some surprises that pop up.

 

No sense adding a FA QB unless you think he can win it all with the present team.  Not to mentor a rookie.  Brissett could do that

There isn't much worse that Jacoby can play simply because Reich won't allow it... he will just take the ball out of his hands on key downs... just like he did this year. He played arguably worse than he did in 2017. And we still were several kicks away from getting to the playoffs. This team is better than people give it credit for and we won't be picking high next year no matter how bad Jacoby plays.

 

This team was considered one of the Superbowl contenders before the Luck retirement and I would argue to a large degree they showed why until the collapse after the Titans game... to me it looked like something broke in the team after that 10 point swing special teams disaster that instead of giving us the lead with 4 minutes to go, gave us a loss. 

 

We won't be drafting much higher next year and next years draft class might or might not have comparable QB talent. IMO nobody will be trading away the Trevor Lawrence pick and the situation with Fields is similar too. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

if that works then we wont be picking high enough to get a top 3 qb and will have to give up more than we would now

 

herbert will be as good as the third or 4th best qbs pretty much any year  imo.  lot of mixed opinions on love, i would not trade for him but would take at 13

In my opinion if Love is good enough to take at 13 he is good enough to move up for.

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

Nope, I'd take BPA with 13 and roll with JB    That builds the total team.  Then next yr if JB doesn't drastically improve we would have another very high pick, or we could trade up or acquire on via FA/Trade

I'll just say you're in the minority here... It's very unlikely that "drastic improvement happens", but is very likely that our record would improve, giving us worse draft position.

14 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

This team is not quite ready to make the  big run for the title yet.  But will be for multiple yrs if we build from the inside out though the draft.

Let's say you roll with JB, he doesn't pan out, and then you're drafting a QB in 2021, giving up likely more capital to move up and possibly mortgaging your future picks, and still won't be ready for big run because your QB is a rook (that may need to sit, or at best will start and go through growing pains). You're basically worse off than had you taken a QB in 2020. One draft pick doesn't make or break you. Our needs aren't just addressed in the draft.  

14 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

The other reason is I don't see any of the QB's besides Tua and Burrow being the answer.  Next yr there will be a minimum of 3 big time QB's available and I sure there will be some surprises that pop up.

You'll have Fields and Lawrence, and we won't be in position to get either unless we give up a boat load.

14 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

No sense adding a FA QB unless you think he can win it all with the present team.  Not to mentor a rookie.  Brissett could do that

This is simply silly. Brissett isn't a mentor. He's a young guy with questionable results/history at best. Even if he has "strong leadership" qualities, the rest of the package isn't roll model, and the experience is simply not there. 

[WifiGuy]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'll just say you're in the minority here... It's very unlikely that "drastic improvement happens", but is very likely that our record would improve, giving us worse draft position.

Let's say you roll with JB, he doesn't pan out, and then you're drafting a QB in 2021, giving up likely more capital to move up and possibly mortgaging your future picks, and still won't be ready for big run because your QB is a rook (that may need to sit, or at best will start and go through growing pains). You're basically worse off than had you taken a QB in 2020. One draft pick doesn't make or break you. Our needs aren't just addressed in the draft.  

You'll have Fields and Lawrence, and we won't be in position to get either unless we give up a boat load.

This is simply silly. Brissett isn't a mentor. He's a young guy with questionable results/history at best. Even if he has "strong leadership" qualities, the rest of the package isn't roll model, and the experience is simply not there. 

Easier to give up more capital if you don't have as many glaring needs as we have right now

[aaron11]

16 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

In my opinion if Love is good enough to take at 13 he is good enough to move up for.

 i have been going back and forth on that.  i doubt he gets past 13 too

 

maybe ballard would trade some later picks to move up a couple spots, if they want to make a big trade might as well go for  tua or herbert 

 

 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, aaron11 said:

 i have been going back and forth on that.  i doubt he gets past 13 too

 

maybe ballard would trade some later picks to move up a couple spots, if they want to make a big trade might as well go for  tua or herbert 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion Love does things better then Herbert. Herbert doesn’t anticipate open windows as well as Love. Herbert has more experience though. I think Love has a bigger upside. We actually won’t have to move up much to get either of them. Anywhere from 7-11 if Carolina doesn’t take a QB. But I do think we need to move up to make sure we get one of them because someone in the 20’s could pull a KC and move up into that 7-11 range. 

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

Easier to give up more capital if you don't have as many glaring needs as we have right now

We don't have a ton of glaring needs. Really only 2 tier 1 needs, and one of them is QB, the position you want to pass on. And when you give up a bunch of capital, you end up amplifying the impact because you're missing out on future high draft picks that give you 3-4 years of cheap performance.

 

And that assumes teams are willing to part with those high picks instead of taking those coveted QBs in the first place. And nobody is going to pass on Lawrence. Probably won't pass on Fields either. All the rest will be just as big of gamble as what is available to us this year without having to give up much capital.

[WifiGuy]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

We don't have a ton of glaring needs. Really only 2 tier 1 needs, and one of them is QB, the position you want to pass on. And when you give up a bunch of capital, you end up amplifying the impact because you're missing out on future high draft picks that give you 3-4 years of cheap performance.

 

And that assumes teams are willing to part with those high picks instead of taking those coveted QBs in the first place. And nobody is going to pass on Lawrence. Probably won't pass on Fields either. All the rest will be just as big of gamble as what is available to us this year without having to give up much capital.

I disagree with the bolded .  We absolutely need a 3 tech and then a LT ,WR and NT .    

 

With the 1st 3 picks I'm guessing Ballard wouldn't have to reach to fill those needs.

 

So next yr we could go all in for a Qb.  Obviously things will happen to mess that all up, but as it stands on paper adding those 4 positions via FA, draft or trade makes us a pretty complete team.

 

That complete team can cover up a lot of rookie QB mistakes.    

 

Mahomes and Jackson went to pretty complete teams .  

 

[EastStreet]

Just now, WifiGuy said:

I disagree with the bolded .  We absolutely need a 3 tech and then a LT ,WR and NT . 

The poorest performing unit by far last year was passing O. We went from 6th, to 30th, with many of the same supporting characters. 

 

3T is a glaring need IMO, but Ballard ignored it last year. LT is not an immediate need, yet. NT is definitely not a glaring need. WR is a need, but not glaring. IF TY is healthy, PC doesn't have freak injuries, and they resign Funch, that's a pretty good starting 3. A need, but not glaring.

Just now, WifiGuy said:

With the 1st 3 picks I'm guessing Ballard wouldn't have to reach to fill those needs.

 

So next yr we could go all in for a Qb.  Obviously things will happen to mess that all up, but as it stands on paper adding those 4 positions via FA, draft or trade makes us a pretty complete team.

You can address QB and 3T early, T at 44, WR at 75, and cover all the bases. And if you address any of those in FA, all the better. It's not like addressing QB this year keeps us from addressing anything.

Just now, WifiGuy said:

That complete team can cover up a lot of rookie QB mistakes.    

 

Mahomes and Jackson went to pretty complete teams .  

Both QBs were seen as risk/reaches by many. Neither were no brainer picks. Take a look at both their NFL.com draft profiles. And KC did just what I'm suggesting. Picked the guy they liked (even with the question marks), and let him sit a year or two. And comparing Jackson is not relevant. Reich is not going to run that type of O and wouldn't be looking for a run 1st QB.

[FalseStart]

Trickeration, Gamesmanship and tomfoolery... Welcome to March and the NFL draft

[WifiGuy]

22 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

The poorest performing unit by far last year was passing O. We went from 6th, to 30th, with many of the same supporting characters. 

 

3T is a glaring need IMO, but Ballard ignored it last year. LT is not an immediate need, yet. NT is definitely not a glaring need. WR is a need, but not glaring. IF TY is healthy, PC doesn't have freak injuries, and they resign Funch, that's a pretty good starting 3. A need, but not glaring.

You can address QB and 3T early, T at 44, WR at 75, and cover all the bases. And if you address any of those in FA, all the better. It's not like addressing QB this year keeps us from addressing anything.

Both QBs were seen as risk/reaches by many. Neither were no brainer picks. Take a look at both their NFL.com draft profiles. And KC did just what I'm suggesting. Picked the guy they liked (even with the question marks), and let him sit a year or two. And comparing Jackson is not relevant. Reich is not going to run that type of O and wouldn't be looking for a run 1st QB.

appreciate your opinion but we are going to have to agree to disagree.   We will see what Ballard does at draft time.   He won't do anything we expect anyway.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

16 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

appreciate your opinion but we are going to have to agree to disagree.   We will see what Ballard does at draft time.   He won't do anything we expect anyway.

I hate to say it but Ballard pretty much does what’s he says. It’s pretty clear what he will do in the draft. If he sees a upgrade at QB he will go get it. He is huge on the dline. Plus he knows we need WR help. It’s not hard to figure him out. He does what he says. At this point I don’t know how he doesn’t consider Herbert or Love a upgrade. The question is he sold enough to take them at 13 or move up. 

[WifiGuy]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I hate to say it but Ballard pretty much does what’s he says. It’s pretty clear what he will do in the draft. If he sees a upgrade at QB he will go get it. He is huge on the dline. Plus he knows we need WR help. It’s not hard to figure him out. He does what he says. At this point I don’t know how he doesn’t consider Herbert or Love a upgrade. The question is he sold enough to take them at 13 or move up. 

Which picks in last yrs draft were you/we sure he was making?   Many wanted Nelson but how many thought he would take him?   How about Hooker?  Leonard?  Smith?

 

Going by what you are saying.  His statement is he wants to build the trenches first. If thats the case expect a 3tech or OT with the first pick no matter if its 13 or a trade back

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

43 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

Which picks in last yrs draft were you/we sure he was making?   Many wanted Nelson but how many thought he would take him?   How about Hooker?  Leonard?  Smith?

 

Going by what you are saying.  His statement is he wants to build the trenches first. If thats the case expect a 3tech or OT with the first pick no matter if its 13 or a trade back

We aren’t talking a specific player. We are talking about a position. Ballard is pretty transparent and says what he will do without giving The Who it will be away.

[WifiGuy]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

We aren’t talking a specific player. We are talking about a position. Ballard is pretty transparent and says what he will do without giving The Who it will be away.

he said 3Tech

[AZColt11]

I just don't see a Luck (when he was healthy) in this draft or in FA.  I could be wrong, and often am, I just don't see it.

[GwinnettColt]

10 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I'm in the minority I know but I wouldn't be surprised if we sign Bridgewater.  He's a winner when healthy, he's younger and he'll be cheaper.  Seems like a Ballard move to me.  And we keep all of our picks.  

 

I would see Bridgewater or Carr as being smart signings, especially since a lot of first-round-worthy QB picks will likely be gone by 13. 

[jimmy g]

On 3/1/2020 at 8:56 PM, Chloe6124 said:

This would be a perfect plan if we already had our future QB. But we don’t.

It’s always prudent to take a franchise-making Tackle.  Colts took Tarik Glenn in 97 before they took Peyton in 98.

[Four2itus]

I was just walking down memory lane......ahhhh, good times.