The next Tyreek Hill/T.Y Hilton

[CR91]

 

I want him bad and we can probably get him with our 2nd second round pick

[stitches]

I think Marquise Brown is much closer to TY Hilton/Tyreek Hill. I really like Paris Campbell as a slot receiver and a gadget player, but Hilton and Hill are MUCH MUCH MUCH more refined with their routes. Campbell has close to zero snaps on the outside that are not a screen plays. He's extremely dynamic after the catch though. He makes people miss. I wouldn't mind getting him on the Colts, but I'm not sure I like him on day 2. Maybe with the 3d round pick? But yah... I will like other receivers much better in the second where we are picking. 

[tweezy32]

I think we go with a big wr. Need an alshon Jeffrey player.  After watching the eagles and Texans game seeing alshon jump up and snag that 50/50 ball makes me want one! 

[CR91]

11 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think Marquise Brown is much closer to TY Hilton/Tyreek Hill. I really like Paris Campbell as a slot receiver and a gadget player, but Hilton and Hill are MUCH MUCH MUCH more refined with their routes. Campbell has close to zero snaps on the outside that are not a screen plays. He's extremely dynamic after the catch though. He makes people miss. I wouldn't mind getting him on the Colts, but I'm not sure I like him on day 2. Maybe with the 3d round pick? But yah... I will like other receivers much better in the second where we are picking. 

 

My initial idea for Campbell is to use him a lot like how hill and hilton were used in the beginning of their careers. A lot of plays in space and use his speed to make plays while he learns to be a complete WR. I also like A.J Brown. With a run of defensive players, hes going to fall somewhere in the twenties imo. An offense with hilton and brown on the outside and Campbell in the backfield or in the slot, would create a lot of problems for defensives and that doesn't even factor Cain coming back from injury if he excels. That would be a lot of toys for Luck and Reich to play with. 

[coltsnation]

36 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

My initial idea for Campbell is to use him a lot like how hill and hilton were used in the beginning of their careers. A lot of plays in space and use his speed to make plays while he learns to be a complete WR. I also like A.J Brown. With a run of defensive players, hes going to fall somewhere in the twenties imo. An offense with hilton and brown on the outside and Campbell in the backfield or in the slot, would create a lot of problems for defensives and that doesn't even factor Cain coming back from injury if he excels. That would be a lot of toys for Luck and Reich to play with. 

I think we draft a big target like Arcega Whiteside or Brown.  Hilton is our speed guy and can even play in the slot.  Cain is good RAC.

[CR91]

2 minutes ago, coltsnation said:

I think we draft a big target like Arcega Whiteside or Brown.  Hilton is our speed guy and can even play in the slot.  Cain is good RAC.

 

I think we need more then one WR. Right now Andrew is making chicken salad with chicken s..., no offense to Inman, rogers, and Pascal. I think their reliable, but not game changers

[stitches]

13 minutes ago, coltsnation said:

I think we draft a big target like Arcega Whiteside or Brown.  Hilton is our speed guy and can even play in the slot.  Cain is good RAC.

 

My early draft season WR hot take is... Collin Johnson is better than ALL of the big receivers getting hyped in the media(JJ, Butler, Brown, Harry, Harmon, Sills, Anthony Johnson, etc.)... And I actually like some of those... I'm just almost certain Collin Johnson will be the player I'm the highest on from pretty much anybody. I think he's a first round talent and if we can get him in the second or the third I think that would be a steal. 

[stitches]

51 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

My initial idea for Campbell is to use him a lot like how hill and hilton were used in the beginning of their careers. A lot of plays in space and use his speed to make plays while he learns to be a complete WR. I also like A.J Brown. With a run of defensive players, hes going to fall somewhere in the twenties imo. An offense with hilton and brown on the outside and Campbell in the backfield or in the slot, would create a lot of problems for defensives and that doesn't even factor Cain coming back from injury if he excels. That would be a lot of toys for Luck and Reich to play with. 

As I said - I don't mind him on the Colts and I actually think what he does well fits very well with what Reich has been emphasizing (quick hitting game) and he will give us a dimension we don't really have(playmaking after the catch), but I still don't think he's worth a second round pick. Just my 2 cent.  

[CR91]

Just now, stitches said:

As I said - I don't mind him on the Colts and I actually think what he does well fits very well with what Reich has been emphasizing (quick hitting game) and he will give us a dimension we don't really have(playmaking after the catch), but I still don't think he's worth a second round pick. Just my 2 cent.  

 

well depending if we make the playoffs and we have a deep playoff run, our 2nd second round pick could basically be a third round pick.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

well depending if we make the playoffs and we have a deep playoff run, our 2nd second round pick could basically be a third round pick.

I still don't like the value. I can almost guarantee you there will be receivers available even at the end of round 3 that I will like better than Campbell, but I can live with it if Frank thinks he's an important missing piece in how he sees his offense functioning. 

[BleedBlu8792]

5 hours ago, stitches said:

I think Marquise Brown is much closer to TY Hilton/Tyreek Hill. I really like Paris Campbell as a slot receiver and a gadget player, but Hilton and Hill are MUCH MUCH MUCH more refined with their routes. Campbell has close to zero snaps on the outside that are not a screen plays. He's extremely dynamic after the catch though. He makes people miss. I wouldn't mind getting him on the Colts, but I'm not sure I like him on day 2. Maybe with the 3d round pick? But yah... I will like other receivers much better in the second where we are picking. 

 

Campbell is a YAC guy, but with development he could possibly be an outside guy. He has the speed to burn the back-end of defenses, but Ryan Day (OSU's OC/HC) absolutely loves beating teams long down the seams from the slot position, so yes Campbell seen a lot of time from that position and he took advantage of it. I think a 2 is a little early for him because he can still frustrate you with drops and he still needs a lot of refinement in the intermediate routes, but a 3 - ideally a 4th - is where you would like to get him and play him exclusively in the slot and let him beat LB's and safety's all day. 

[MikeCurtis]

46 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Campbell is a YAC guy, but with development he could possibly be an outside guy. He has the speed to burn the back-end of defenses, but Ryan Day (OSU's OC/HC) absolutely loves beating teams long down the seams from the slot position, so yes Campbell seen a lot of time from that position and he took advantage of it. I think a 2 is a little early for him because he can still frustrate you with drops and he still needs a lot of refinement in the intermediate routes, but a 3 - ideally a 4th - is where you would like to get him and play him exclusively in the slot and let him beat LB's and safety's all day. 

I dont see Campbell lasting til the 4th

 

I would think he is picked in mid to late 2rd

 

He is amazing fast, and could line up all over the place

 

He is built more like a RB, which helps him get YAC.

 

I am torn, because I am a OSU fan.....  I have seen some amazing runs from the guy

 

But......  I would STILL like to get a BIG 50/50 catch guy for the right side

 

One with Speed that makes the DC stay up all night......

 

 

 

[Barry Sears]

20 hours ago, stitches said:

 

My early draft season WR hot take is... Collin Johnson is better than ALL of the big receivers getting hyped in the media(JJ, Butler, Brown, Harry, Harmon, Sills, Anthony Johnson, etc.)... And I actually like some of those... I'm just almost certain Collin Johnson will be the player I'm the highest on from pretty much anybody. I think he's a first round talent and if we can get him in the second or the third I think that would be a steal. 

 

Me, too!!  Every time I see him play he is making big plays and great catches.  Really uses his body well to fend off defenders.  Has size, great hands and some speed.

[Mr.Debonair]

This guy looks like Hines but bigger. Wouldn't waste a 2nd Round pick on him

[throwing BBZ]

On 12/26/2018 at 12:10 PM, CR91 said:

 

I want him bad and we can probably get him with our 2nd second round pick

 

Thanks for sharing. I gave no thought to shutting this off.

Frank and Andrew would get high mileage out of him. A great Colt.
 We are going to be sweating, anxious, so fired up before, And After the draft.
TRUST our Scouting, building process. 

[throwing BBZ]

On 12/26/2018 at 7:24 PM, MikeCurtis said:

I dont see Campbell lasting til the 4th

 

I would think he is picked in mid to late 2rd

 

He is amazing fast, and could line up all over the place

 

He is built more like a RB, which helps him get YAC.

 

I am torn, because I am a OSU fan.....  I have seen some amazing runs from the guy

 

But......  I would STILL like to get a BIG 50/50 catch guy for the right side

 

One with Speed that makes the DC stay up all night......

 

 

 

 

 Notice Ballard added ZERO Big 50/50 guys last off season for development.
Not saying he won't see a guy he grades really high this off season. Of course.
 If you are spreading the ball around to 8 or so guys all the time, wouldn't your guy have less value? Understanding your 50/50 guy Could be big time in the red zone.
 See Ebron.  The Important brain trust always has plenty to ponder.

[throwing BBZ]

On 12/26/2018 at 2:22 PM, stitches said:

I still don't like the value. I can almost guarantee you there will be receivers available even at the end of round 3 that I will like better than Campbell, but I can live with it if Frank thinks he's an important missing piece in how he sees his offense functioning. 

 

That you think are better. And you can live with it. You guys are

[stitches]

7 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

That you think are better. And you can live with it. You guys are

Yes, this is a message board where people share their thoughts about various subjects directly or tangentially related to the Colts. What's your point? 

[MikeCurtis]

18 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Notice Ballard added ZERO Big 50/50 guys last off season for development.
Not saying he won't see a guy he grades really high this off season. Of course.
 If you are spreading the ball around to 8 or so guys all the time, wouldn't your guy have less value? Understanding your 50/50 guy Could be big time in the red zone.
 See Ebron.  The Important brain trust always has plenty to ponder.

Maybe he was viewing Cain as that 50/50 guy

 

I think he had more holes than draft picks last year

 

We will see how he values the spot

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would love to Draft a tall WR like 6'4 or 6'5. Luck has rarely had that in his whole career. Ebron is 6'4 but is a TE. I would love to see us with a guy where Luck could just throw it up for grabs and we have a guy that come down with it in traffic. 

[CR91]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would love to Draft a tall WR like 6'4 or 6'5. Luck has rarely had that in his whole career. Ebron is 6'4 but is a TE. I would love to see us with a guy where Luck could just throw it up for grabs and we have a guy that come down with it in traffic. 

 

Well Luck has had tall wrs before, but they don't seem to pan out. Moncrief, Derrick rogers, and Nicks come to mind. They weren't tall wrs per-say, but they could get jump balls. I think Luck favors speedy and or possession wrs better

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Well Luck has had tall wrs before, but they don't seem to pan out. Moncrief and Nicks come to mind. They weren't tall wrs per-say, but they could get jump balls. I think Luck favors speedy and or possession wrs better

I am good either way but it would be cool to see a tall WR for a change that isn't a bust of course. We have Hilton for speed and possession already. Moncrief is only 6'2, Nicks was only 6'1. I am talking someone that is like Ebron at 6'4 or so.

[CR91]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am good either way but it would be cool to see a tall WR for a change that isn't a bust of course. We have Hilton for speed and possession already. Moncrief is only 6'2, Nicks was only 6'1. I am talking someone that is like Ebron at 6'4 or so.

 

my problem I have with tall wrs are, they rely on their size too much instead of working on their craft. Course their are exceptions like Julio and megatron, but guys like Kelvin benjamin basically just try to box out instead of improving their route running.

[throwing BBZ]

28 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yes, this is a message board where people share their thoughts about various subjects directly or tangentially related to the Colts. What's your point? 

 

 Maybe that you won't and don't have what, maybe 25% of the info that Ballard, GM's will have about the prospects and what they consider a good draft board for THEIR Team.  
 That you can "live with it" just amuses me. I mean i hope you can sleep well each night of the draft. 

Post Irsay "Mentoring" our last GM, i trust Ballard and our staff to find "good players in each round" based on what appears to be sound criteria.

 Rather than 90% tape based analysis from NFL loving couch GM's.

 But please do show us good tape, i really enjoy seeing good prospects and dreaming of them as .

And i am sure i will get a look at the guys you were pumping and surely like them too, as i will hopefully watch some tape of 100-200 players. 

 BTW, i didn't see Paris so much like TY,  but more like Tyrek Hill and used like some Jarvis Landry. Frank would use him to eat up under the zones like Hines is doing  for endless 7-9 yard gains and lining up wide against LB's. His quickness in tight spaces is Far beyond what TY can do. More RB qualities.  Nice physical tools.

[throwing BBZ]

42 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am good either way but it would be cool to see a tall WR for a change that isn't a bust of course. We have Hilton for speed and possession already. Moncrief is only 6'2, Nicks was only 6'1. I am talking someone that is like Ebron at 6'4 or so.

 

Well, Todd Lindeman was 7' with a 7" neck.  
 If you want a tallboy, please ask for Not that and long arms and really good "like Reggie" best hands in the draft.      

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Well, Todd Lindeman was 7' with a 7" neck.  
 If you want a tallboy, please ask for Not that and long arms and really good "like Reggie" best hands in the draft.      

Man this might be the Post of the day, a Todd Lindeman mentioning. What a blast from the past. I haven't heard that name in over 20 years. Go IU 

[stitches]

28 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Maybe that you won't and don't have what, maybe 25% of the info that Ballard, GM's will have about the prospects and what they consider a good draft board for THEIR Team.  
 That you can "live with it" just amuses me. I mean i hope you can sleep well each night of the draft. 

That's all good and I don't disagree with much of anything. I've never claimed to have anywhere close to the knowledge or resources a professional football teams and GMs have. I'd even say I don't have anywhere close to 25% of the info Ballard has and anywhere close to 25% of his and his staff's knowledge of the game and scouting resources. 

 

But what does that have to do with anything? I don't get what your point is. Should we all just shut up and agree with everything Ballard does by default? Should we just close the whole forum because none of us has anywhere close to Ballard's knowledge and resources? 

 

A simple figure of speech indicating reluctant acceptance of a decision like "i can live with it" gets snarky retorts like yours. Like... wth? Is this really what made the biggest impression on you from my posts in this thread or in other threads on the forum? OK, if this makes any difference to you, replace "I can live with it" with "I am not going to love it, but I will be OK with it"... 

 

Quote

 

 Post Irsay "Mentoring" our last GM, i trust Ballard and our staff to find "good players in each round" based on what appears to be sound criteria.

 Rather than 90% tape based analysis from NFL loving couch GM's.

 

I absolutely trust him with his evaluations too. I think he's done exceptional job in turning this roster around from one of the oldest and bereft of talent rosters to the youngest and having what looks like multiple blue chip prospects from the last draft and setting the team up for success in a relatively short time. With that said his WR evaluation so far has been meh. Granted he hasn't spent premier resources, so it's hard to evaluate, but still... 

 

[throwing BBZ]

Ballard said post draft that Hooker was #1 on his board. maybe He lied?

So was this good Value on your board?

 

 I like how Rogers and Andrew are linking up. meh? Not IMO. This is big time stuff.

They are seeing the same thing, prepared, and working it. Frank says we are just getting started.

 Pascal is doing good things also. He went from drops to showing really good hands.
He made nice reads and 2 big catches last game. Good blocking. Just getting started.

 Fountain is showing Frank and Ballard something. More good news.

 I believe these guys can all become nice pieces in our passing attack. There is no reason Cain can't be brought along next season or two to be a good piece. With our TE's, Hines, Mack and another whatever Ballard see fit, we Will have plenty to attack defenses.

 

 I will always laugh at the hubrus shown by very poorly informed couch nicks that express any opinion about draft value.  What do they know about character, medicals, commitment, fit ...  but hey, i like to complain about silly posts and poor memories. So such is life. As is said everybody has something. Go Colts!

  

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Maybe he was viewing Cain as that 50/50 guy

 

I think he had more holes than draft picks last year

 

We will see how he values the spot

 

It was reported "i know" that Ballard was interested in Alshon Jeffrey in the 2017 FA period. 6'3" 218. Now he isn't a burner, but he does run deeper routes with that physicality and knack for making 50/50 catches. At $15M and Jeffrey choosing the future SB Champs, no doubt having that guy is on his radar. Replacing Inman with that guy makes since. 

 JMO, another two way TE would be a priority with Jack getting up there and Ebron in his last year. We need a healthy blocker every week that can catch a pass.

[stitches]

42 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

Ballard said post draft that Hooker was #1 on his board. maybe He lied?

So was this good Value on your board?

  

I think a picture of Hooker's card on Colts' board after selecting him leaked in the media indicating he was no. 4 on our board.

 

I don't remember exactly where I had him but it was pretty high. No. 3 or 4 ... I loved the pick and I thought it was great value. I thought he was one of the bluechip players from that draft class.

 

About the receivers - Rodgers was here before Ballard. Fountain has not seen meaningful snaps with our receiving core suffering through some injuries and horrible drop issues for half the year. We were getting players from the streets week after week while Fountain wasn't getting any consideration for snaps. I expected more of him. I don't know what they think of him and we can only guess, but based on the fact that he's got 3 snaps total the whole year I'd say they don't think he's ready. Which is OK... I don't mind keeping developmental players on the practice squad and trying to coach them up. Next off-season will be key for him... lets hope he shows progress. 

 

Pascal is OK and so is Inman(I think I like him best from our receivers past TY), but if you want to compete at the highest level, IMO they are ideally depth pieces rather than no. 2 or 3 receivers. BTW again - since we've practically not spent any resources on them, I think they are good finds for Ballard. 

[MikeCurtis]

On 12/28/2018 at 12:34 PM, CR91 said:

 

my problem I have with tall wrs are, they rely on their size too much instead of working on their craft. Course their are exceptions like Julio and megatron, but guys like Kelvin benjamin basically just try to box out instead of improving their route running.

Thats a great point, I am looking for a WR that can do the 50/50 balls, run the complete route tree, AND get separation (speed and quickness)

 

Megatron AND Julio Jones had all three of these skills

 

They could take over the game 

 

There are 2 and possibly 3 WRs that SEEM to possess these 3 traits in this draft

 

With Luck AND our TEs AND TY Hilton.......... 

 

Just like the Mercy Me song "I can only imagine"

 

Put another RB to platoon in with Mack.......

 

The defense would HAVE to start with a nickle or dime package.......

 

That would be VERY tough to stop..............

 

 

[NFLfan]

On 12/28/2018 at 1:21 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would love to Draft a tall WR like 6'4 or 6'5. Luck has rarely had that in his whole career. Ebron is 6'4 but is a TE. I would love to see us with a guy where Luck could just throw it up for grabs and we have a guy that come down with it in traffic. 

 

JJ Arcega-Whiteside 

 

He has the size and the brains. He catches everything. Like Luck, he is a Stanford Cardinal. He'd be a great fit with the Colts.

 

From USA Today (Draftwire):

Arcega-Whiteside is one of the best Pac-12 wide receivers. He is tall, physical with long arms and huge hands. He plays with explosive leaping ability to manipulate his body in the air and make plays outside the numbers along the sideline.

Arcega-Whiteside uses his frame to box out defenders and consistently extends his arms to amplify his catch radius and grip the ball away from his body. He is not as refined as a route runner, but his body type and pass catching skill set will entice NFL scouts.

 

Link: Draftwire article

[NFLfan]

On 12/28/2018 at 2:39 PM, stitches said:

I've never claimed to have anywhere close to the knowledge or resources a professional football teams and GMs have

 

Don't engage. You don't need to defend yourself. You bring great content to the site. 

 

Btw, in case I missed it, what do you think of Arcega-Whiteside for the Colts? (Vikes are not drafting WR early; otherwise, I may want him for us. Hope the Vikes' top 3 picks are OL. They surely need it.)

[stitches]

58 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Don't engage. You don't need to defend yourself. You bring great content to the site. 

 

Btw, in case I missed it, what do you think of Arcega-Whiteside for the Colts? (Vikes are not drafting WR early; otherwise, I may want him for us. Hope the Vikes' top 3 picks are OL. They surely need it.)

I love Arcega-Whiteside. Especially as a college player he's super fun to watch in the red-zone. He's basically unstoppable there. He's like a big power forward who knows all the tricks and the best techniques for boxing out opponents for rebounds and just goes up and gets everything thrown his way or draws flags for defensive pass interference. 

 

The excerpt you posted sounds about right for him. He's big... and looks even bigger on tape. He looks and plays huge and very physical. It will be very interesting to see his speed at the combine.  He's not a burner but IMO he has some speed. I read some stat yesterday that he's the best catcher of the football in the draft on deep passes and by some ridiculous margin. Like... 6-7% higher than the second best...  

 

edit: here it is:  

 

 

This to me signifies several things - first he is extremely good tracking the ball downfield, second - he has very good hands(I've seen him drop some, but iMO those are more concentration drops, because the way he snatches the ball in the air with confidence and resolve never made me doubt his ability to catch a football). IMO he has great technique when taking position and stacking cornerbacks when he gets even slightest advantage against them. If he gets in front of you, you are done, you are not getting back in the play if the QB throws a good ball... he's just too big, too physical and too crafty with his body positioning to even let you back in the picture where you can affect the pass - he's either coming away with the ball or with a drawn defensive pass-interference.  

 

I still have doubts about his ability to separate consistently and run crisp routes, as well as beat press-man on the line of scrimmage. This is the only thing that gives me pause with him and this is the reason he's probably going to be behind several other WRs on my final WR rankings list. But overall I'm relatively high on him. I will probably have him ahead of someone like Kelvin Harmon, who a lot of people love, but I just don't see it with him. 

[Dark Superman]

This video didn't impress me at all.