Any doubt that Andrew Luck is elite now?

[Finball]

10 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Based on play this season it is mahomes then luck. 

 

If one only cares about TD passes.

[Aaron86]

1 hour ago, Finball said:

 

What? I said he's in my top 10, top 5 is what I'm unsure about. Top 10 doesn't mean I've ranked him 10th either. I think he's in the 5-8 range.

I'm gonna stick him in the top 3 partly because I'm a hommer. But also look at everything he has went through not just physically but mentally and getting better each week. He's had to play with virtually no receivers except Ebron. And was still putting our team in a position to win. 

[Finball]

1 minute ago, Aaron86 said:

I'm gonna stick him in the top 3 partly because I'm a hommer. But also look at everything he has went through not just physically but mentally and getting better each week. He's had to play with virtually no receivers except Ebron. And was still putting our team in a position to win. 

 

I expect Luck to be firmly in the top 5 and possibly top 3 soon due to regression from Brady/Brees as he gets more comfortable with his shoulder and the scheme along with getting better receivers.

[superrep1967]

22 hours ago, SSFiero said:

Quarterbacks who have thrown for 40 Touchdowns twice.

Peyton Manning

Dan Marino

Drew Brees

Aaron Rodgers

Luck is on pace to do it a second time. 

I'm sure Brady has to

[superrep1967]

19 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

If he had a two good wideouts, I think he'd be more of an MVP this year. I think we'd have more wins and a better chance. 

There is no doubt about it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

I'm sure Brady has to

Brady threw for 50 in 2007 but he hasn't thrown for more than 40 other than that. QB's have thrown for 40 or more only 8 times I think.

[superrep1967]

3 hours ago, The Fish said:

Mahomes is very good, but he's also played 8 games or so.. It's way too early to crown him.

 

Goff isn't in the same universe as Luck.

Goff has much better talent around him

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

There is no doubt about it.

Brady next best season is 39 I just cheated and looked it up 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

16 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

I'm sure Brady has to

 

I was too, but then I looked it up.

 

Turns out the 50 he threw in 2007 was an anomaly.  Thanks Google! 

 

I even thought Kurt Warner had thrown for 40+ twice, but I was wrong.  It's just Manning, Marino, Brees, and Rodgers.

 

And hopefully Luck. 

[NewColtsFan]

23 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I've been saying for a while that IMO Luck was borderline elite but was maybe a notch below. But this year I think he is now elite. He has been on fire all year. I believe hes on pace for more than 40 touchdowns and the best QBR of his career.

 

He'd probably be in the MVP talk if the Colts had a winning record, IMO.

 

I never, ever thought Luck was anything but elite.    I think he established that as a rookie.   And it only became more clear in his 2nd and 3rd years.

 

His season has been everything we could've hoped for and much, much more.

 

The man is elite.    He has the ability to carry the team.     Given health,  no reason to think he won't be playing for many more elite level years.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I never, ever thought Luck was anything but elite.    I think he established that as a rookie.   And it only became more clear in his 2nd and 3rd years.

 

His season has been everything we could've hoped for and much, much more.

 

The man is elite.    He has the ability to carry the team.     Given health,  no reason to think he won't be playing for many more elite level years.

 

We will win a SB in the next 3 or 4 years with Luck. 

[JustAColtsFan]

12 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Luck has been elite since his Rookie year, where he should have won the MVP. If Luck somehow gets this team to 10 wins, Luck should (but won't) win MVP

Come Back Player of the Year!

[CaptainColt12]

20 hours ago, Stephen said:

Not til he out duels mahomes 

Yeah Mahomes is doing better but I mean that Luck is just better than him, put Luck on the Cheifs or the Patriots and he would be one of the top 5 greatest QB's of all time. Think that is ridiculous, he is on pace to have another 40 TD year with pretty bad WR's compared to other teams. Has always had a terrible o line and now that he has a good one he hasn't thrown a pick. He most definitely has the talent, it's just the team around him. If ballard can put a good team around (doesn't need to be great) which he is, we can be 2 time Superbowl Champs and Luck with multiple MVP's. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, CaptainColt12 said:

Yeah Mahomes is doing better but I mean that Luck is just better than him, put Luck on the Cheifs or the Patriots and he would be one of the top 5 greatest QB's of all time. Think that is ridiculous, he is on pace to have another 40 TD year with pretty bad WR's compared to other teams. Has always had a terrible o line and now that he has a good one he hasn't thrown a pick. He most definitely has the talent, it's just the team around him. If ballard can put a good team around (doesn't need to be great) which he is, we can be 2 time Superbowl Champs and Luck with multiple MVP's. 

If Luck wins a couple of League MVP's and wins 2 SB's in a Colts uniform while putting up huge numbers, he could go down as a Top 10 QB ever. To get into the Top 5 he needs 3 SB wins, a couple of League MVP's IMO + huge numbers. Aikman won 3 but his numbers like Bradshaw's who won 4 were Average. My Top 5 still remains Brady, Montana, Peyton, Unitas, and Elway - All of these guys won 2 or more Championships and put up huge numbers. Unitas put up huge numbers for his time, he only won 1 SB but won 2 NFL Championships in the late 50's. Aaron Rodgers is still playing too, if he wins another SB he is pushing Top 5 ever as well. So many greats out there.

[Stephen]

3 hours ago, CaptainColt12 said:

Yeah Mahomes is doing better but I mean that Luck is just better than him, put Luck on the Cheifs or the Patriots and he would be one of the top 5 greatest QB's of all time. Think that is ridiculous, he is on pace to have another 40 TD year with pretty bad WR's compared to other teams. Has always had a terrible o line and now that he has a good one he hasn't thrown a pick. He most definitely has the talent, it's just the team around him. If ballard can put a good team around (doesn't need to be great) which he is, we can be 2 time Superbowl Champs and Luck with multiple MVP's. 

Yea the tes are helping.

[superrep1967]

18 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We will win a SB in the next 3 or 4 years with Luck. 

I agree

[18to87]

On 11/1/2018 at 6:02 PM, braveheartcolt said:

Is that based on time, games or snaps? Hard to imagine he is faster than Peyton.....

Based on games. Marino was fastest (89 games) and Rodgers second (99 games). He won't best Marino, but he need 45 TD's in under 21 games to beat Rodgers. 

 

Then again, if healthy, Mahomes will destroy that at this rate.

[Trueman]

16 minutes ago, 18to87 said:

Based on games. Marino was fastest (89 games) and Rodgers second (99 games). He won't best Marino, but he need 45 TD's in under 21 games to beat Rodgers. 

 

Then again, if healthy, Mahomes will destroy that at this rate.

To do that in the era Marino played in... just incredible. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

40 minutes ago, 18to87 said:

Based on games. Marino was fastest (89 games) and Rodgers second (99 games). He won't best Marino, but he need 45 TD's in under 21 games to beat Rodgers. 

 

Then again, if healthy, Mahomes will destroy that at this rate.

 

Especially if dump off screens continue to go for TD's....Lol

 

Obviously, Maholmes is a Top Talent and fun to watch. And playing in Andy Reid's system & playcalling will certainly pad his stats.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 11/1/2018 at 8:04 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We will win a SB in the next 3 or 4 years with Luck. 

 

Only 1 ?

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Only 1 ?

More than 1 if we are talking more than 3 or 4 years. I just see us getting it done in 3 or 4 years then after that the sky is the limit. In a 10 year timeframe, maybe 2 or 3? Luck is that good IMO. I see us being a Playoff team next season for sure. 

[18to87]

58 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Especially if dump off screens continue to go for TD's....Lol

 

Obviously, Maholmes is a Top Talent and fun to watch. And playing in Andy Reid's system & playcalling will certainly pad his stats.

 

And a poor defense will help his stats too, similar to Brees. If Manning threw the ball as much as QB's are these days then his stats would have been even better. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

2 hours ago, 18to87 said:

 

And a poor defense will help his stats too, similar to Brees. If Manning threw the ball as much as QB's are these days then his stats would have been even better. 

 

Agree.....teams today pass a lot more AND QB's yards & TD's will reflect it. Doesn't necessarily mean they are better passers than the QB's from even just a few years ago.

Similarly to MLB, the game is changing before are eyes.

[18to87]

22 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Agree.....teams today pass a lot more AND QB's yards & TD's will reflect it. Doesn't necessarily mean they are better passers than the QB's from even just a few years ago.

Similarly to MLB, the game is changing before are eyes.

Agree 100%. Now, I am getting off track, but I suspect the Manning era Colts would have won a few more very important games if 3rd and short was as much of a passing down as it is today. 

[Mr.ZapRowsdower]

I’m trying not to be a homer but I’m having a really hard time keeping him out of the top 5. I have my top 3 as Rodgers, Brees then Brady. Wilson has a SB but that was with a once in a lifetime defense and “Beast Mode”. Luck carried Pagano all the way to the AFCCG which I find more impressive. To me we are beginning to see his era begin finally. Good things are coming. But yes he is elite. A lot of other teams would love to have him as well as their fan bases. We should be all be thankful for 12.

[2006Coltsbestever]

46 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Agree.....teams today pass a lot more AND QB's yards & TD's will reflect it. Doesn't necessarily mean they are better passers than the QB's from even just a few years ago.

Similarly to MLB, the game is changing before are eyes.

In the SB era (1966-2017): - I think the 2 most important accomplishments for QB's are SB wins and League MVP's. League MVP basically says you are the most important player in the league to your team and best player individually in the league. Winning the SB is a team accomplishment but winning the SB is the most important thing and the QB is the most important position. 

 

-Brady has 5 SB wins and 3 League MVP's = 8

-Peyton has 2 SB wins and 5 League MVP's = 7

*Brady has a slight edge by my most important formula's 8-7 but that is about as close as it gets.

 

-Montana has 4 SB wins and 2 League MVP's = 6

-Bradshaw has 4 SB wins and 1 League MVP = 5

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

In the SB era (1966-2017): - I think the 2 most important accomplishments for QB's are SB wins and League MVP's. League MVP basically says you are the most important player in the league to your team and best player individually in the league. Winning the SB is a team accomplishment but winning the SB is the most important thing and the QB is the most important position. 

 

-Brady has 5 SB wins and 3 League MVP's = 8

-Peyton has 2 SB wins and 5 League MVP's = 7

*Brady has a slight edge by my most important formula's 8-7 but that is about as close as it gets.

 

-Montana has 4 SB wins and 2 League MVP's = 6

-Bradshaw has 4 SB wins and 1 League MVP = 5

Brady's numbers are tainted and have asterisks all over the place! 

[MPStack]

On 11/1/2018 at 8:18 PM, JustAColtsFan said:

Come Back Player of the Year!

It will come down to him and J.J. Watt. If he loses to Watt, I'd have know issues with it.

[CaptainColt12]

On 11/2/2018 at 9:48 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If Luck wins a couple of League MVP's and wins 2 SB's in a Colts uniform while putting up huge numbers, he could go down as a Top 10 QB ever. To get into the Top 5 he needs 3 SB wins, a couple of League MVP's IMO + huge numbers. Aikman won 3 but his numbers like Bradshaw's who won 4 were Average. My Top 5 still remains Brady, Montana, Peyton, Unitas, and Elway - All of these guys won 2 or more Championships and put up huge numbers. Unitas put up huge numbers for his time, he only won 1 SB but won 2 NFL Championships in the late 50's. Aaron Rodgers is still playing too, if he wins another SB he is pushing Top 5 ever as well. So many greats out there.

I think Marino would be in there because he was just an amazing player and to keep him back cause of a superbowl (which is a team accomplishment) is just ludicrous. 53 players win superbowls not a QB.

[Rally5]

On 11/1/2018 at 4:20 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah because of the way Mahomes and Goff are playing, he may be 6th right now. My obvious Top 3 are Brady, Rodgers, and Brees then you have Mahomes, Goff, and Luck. I think Luck should be at 4 only because he is more proven but the other 2 kids are playing Great and have the 2 best teams in the NFL.

Everybody had Wentz as an MVP last year and #3 in the league.  We'll need to see at least three seasons from Goff and Mahomes before we can start anointing them 'best in the league.'  We need to see what happens when defenses adjust, talent goes away, injuries set in, that's when we'll know about these guys.  So be careful because the bandwagon can buck fast. Guys like Rogers, Luck, Brees stand the test of time and adversity, that's the measure of best in class.  Agreed, these younglings are white hot right now but so was Wentz, anyone remember a guy named RGIII?  How about Teddy Bridgewater or Nick Foles record season for that matter?  How about we give it three years and let's see who merits the designation.

[Roger]

Luck throws a lot of interceptions.  76 int and 155 td.  It's not Favre-like, but consider that he has thrown only 12 fewer interceptions than Brady and 14 fewer than Rivers over a much shorter career.

[crazycolt1]

31 minutes ago, Roger said:

Luck throws a lot of interceptions.  76 int and 155 td.  It's not Favre-like, but consider that he has thrown only 12 fewer interceptions than Brady and 14 fewer than Rivers over a much shorter career.

So what are you saying?  Because Luck had to put up more passes than normal just to carry this team in the past he is not elite? 

[crazycolt1]

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 6:45 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

In the SB era (1966-2017): - I think the 2 most important accomplishments for QB's are SB wins and League MVP's. League MVP basically says you are the most important player in the league to your team and best player individually in the league. Winning the SB is a team accomplishment but winning the SB is the most important thing and the QB is the most important position. 

 

-Brady has 5 SB wins and 3 League MVP's = 8

-Peyton has 2 SB wins and 5 League MVP's = 7

*Brady has a slight edge by my most important formula's 8-7 but that is about as close as it gets.

 

-Montana has 4 SB wins and 2 League MVP's = 6

-Bradshaw has 4 SB wins and 1 League MVP = 5

Super bowls are team accomplishments.  Without a great team around them there is no QB that can win a super bowl. 

There have been QBs like Marino and Fouts that were as good as any QB listed but didn't win a super bowl.

Saying who the greatest is is next to impossible.  You are also discounting QBs from the past like Sammy Baugh who lead the league in QB play, punting and also led the league in interceptions. Now how many QBs have done that?

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Super bowls are team accomplishments.  Without a great team around them there is no QB that can win a super bowl. 

There have been QBs like Marino and Fouts that were as good as any QB listed but didn't win a super bowl.

Saying who the greatest is is next to impossible.  You are also discounting QBs from the past like Sammy Baugh who lead the league in QB play, punting and also led the league in interceptions. Now how many QBs have done that?

 

I was going by the SB era only. Sammy Baugh as you know played way before the SB era as did Otto Graham. 

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I was going by the SB era only. Sammy Baugh as you know played way before the SB era as did Otto Graham. 

I understand that but saying who the GOAT is is all opinion.

If Montana played in an era where the QB was protected like they are now how longer would he have played? Would he went 6-0 in the super bowl?

Today's rules protecting QBs is nothing like they were when Montana, Young (concussions), Bradshaw, Fouts and a few more great QB played. If you put anyone of these QBs playing the Patriots system with todays rules can you honestly say Brady is better? I can't. Brady's ability to stay healthy except for one year his whole career is why his numbers are so high. Would his numbers be as high had he took hits like Young and Montana took their whole careers?

The rules protecting QBs really kicked into gear when Brady entered the league and the owners decided to protect their investments. Manning and Brees benefitted huge with those rules in place.

IMO the bottom line is there can't be a GOAT made without all the eras and circumstances brought into the picture. It is nothing but opinion.

Using super bowls as a measure as to who the best QB is not the best guide. Super bowls are team accomplishments.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I understand that but saying who the GOAT is is all opinion.

If Montana played in an era where the QB was protected like they are now how longer would he have played? Would he went 6-0 in the super bowl?

Today's rules protecting QBs is nothing like they were when Montana, Young (concussions), Bradshaw, Fouts and a few more great QB played. If you put anyone of these QBs playing the Patriots system with todays rules can you honestly say Brady is better? I can't. Brady's ability to stay healthy except for one year his whole career is why his numbers are so high. Would his numbers be as high had he took hits like Young and Montana took their whole careers?

The rules protecting QBs really kicked into gear when Brady entered the league and the owners decided to protect their investments. Manning and Brees benefitted huge with those rules in place.

IMO the bottom line is there can't be a GOAT made without all the eras and circumstances brought into the picture. It is nothing but opinion.

Using super bowls as a measure as to who the best QB is not the best guide. Super bowls are team accomplishments.

 

 

Of course it's all opinion and I agree with alot of what you are saying. I just don't factor in Rings though. Stats, MVP's, and other things obviously go into ranking the QB's. Of course anyone with the naked eye would put Dan Marino in their Top 10 QB's of all-time because also things like talent and who you had around you when you played is important. Put Dan on these past Pats teams with BB and he probably would've won at least 2 if not 3 Rings. That is hard to argue against. Fact is though Brady did win 5 and may even win 6? Brady isn't the most gifted QB of all-time but he has taken advantage of his situation to the fullest. Talent wise Brady isn't even Top 5, Marino, Peyton, Elway, Unitas, and even Rodgers have more talent. It's not just about talent either though.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Of course it's all opinion and I agree with alot of what you are saying. I just don't factor in Rings though. Stats, MVP's, and other things obviously go into ranking the QB's. Of course anyone with the naked eye would put Dan Marino in their Top 10 QB's of all-time because also things like talent and who you had around you when you played is important. Put Dan on these past Pats teams with BB and he probably would've won at least 2 if not 3 Rings. That is hard to argue against. Fact is though Brady did win 5 and may even win 6? Brady isn't the most gifted QB of all-time but he has taken advantage of his situation to the fullest. Talent wise Brady isn't even Top 5, Marino, Peyton, Elway, Unitas, and even Rodgers have more talent. It's not just about talent either though.

The thing is the QBs gets the glory when it is the teams they play on that deserve the most glory.  Football is the ultimate team sport.

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The thing is the QBs gets the glory when it is the teams they play on that deserve the most glory.  Football is the ultimate team sport.

Yeah it seems like the QB and Coach get most of the glory when a team wins and they get blamed the most when they lose. What is funny about that, alot of people in the media always say, Defense wins Championships. 

[crazycolt1]

38 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah it seems like the QB and Coach get most of the glory when a team wins and they get blamed the most when they lose. What is funny about that, alot of people in the media always say, Defense wins Championships. 

That's only true if you are talking about the 85 Bears.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

That's only true if you are talking about the 85 Bears.  

or the 2000 Ravens