Casserly Mock 2.0.... Better....

[NewColtsFan]

 

I'd be perfectly fine if this is how the top-6 shakes out.....

 

(The Colts end up with.....     Quenton Nelson)

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000924464/article/charley-casserly-mock-draft-20-bills-trade-up-for-josh-allen

[PeterBowman]

I'd be very much ok with that.

[DougDew]

Realistic mock from Casserly.  Don't like Nelson with the two LBs still on the board. 

 

We should take Mayfield then trade him to either MIA or ARIZ.

[BProland85]

With what’s been taken, this is the perfect draft pick for Indy. Would make Indy’s OL feared especially on the left side. 

[TheMose]

54 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Realistic mock from Casserly.  Don't like Nelson with the two LBs still on the board. 

 

We should take Mayfield then trade him to either MIA or ARIZ.

So you would take Edmunds and Smith over Nelson? And I can't even get where you are going with that Mayfield idea.

[PeterBowman]

As Casserly said in the mock...Nelson, he feels, is the best ol prospect to come out since 2000....if so, that makes him a generational talent and in a position of need..... Castonzo,Nelson, and Kelly could be a lethal left side. 

[AZColt11]

I don't see the Giants taking Barkley at #2, but other than that I could see the rest of that happening.

[DougDew]

23 minutes ago, TheMose said:

So you would take Edmunds and Smith over Nelson? And I can't even get where you are going with that Mayfield idea.

Both Edmunds and Smith will provide more impact for this team than Nelson. 

 

Offensive scheme change alone will have more impact on Luck than an elite G.

 

If Miami is going to wait for Mayfield to come to them, then why not pick him and let MIA and ARIZ bid for him.

[TheMose]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Both Edmunds and Smith will provide more impact for this team than Nelson. 

 

Offensive scheme change alone will have more impact on Luck than an elite G.

 

If Miami is going to wait for Mayfield to come to them, then why not pick him and let MIA and ARIZ bid for him.

Edmunds and Smith would both be sexier picks but the way Nelson is being reviewed is hard to deny he would have a huge impact on this team. The scheme will help but an elite guard will help even more. And picking Mayfield to trade is way more risky than just trading picks. We could pick up Mayfield and then be lowballed because both teams know we don't need him. 

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, TheMose said:

Edmunds and Smith would both be sexier picks but the way Nelson is being reviewed is hard to deny he would have a huge impact on this team. The scheme will help but an elite guard will help even more. And picking Mayfield to trade is way more risky than just trading picks. We could pick up Mayfield and then be lowballed because both teams know we don't need him. 

They'd offer fair value for Mayfield, whatever that is.  I'd think about it if I thought MIA was targeting him and was just going to sit there to get him cheap, gambling that nobody else would come up and get him.   But I agree its too risky and I wouldn't do it. 

 

I don't think ILBs are that sexy of a pick.  I'd compare them to Ss, Gs and Cs rather than CBs, OTs and edges. 

 

Elite talent at LB like instincts, speed, coverage, and tackling is more impactful than the skills an elite G can provide, JMO.

[AZColt11]

5 minutes ago, TheMose said:

Edmunds and Smith would both be sexier picks but the way Nelson is being reviewed is hard to deny he would have a huge impact on this team. The scheme will help but an elite guard will help even more. And picking Mayfield to trade is way more risky than just trading picks. We could pick up Mayfield and then be lowballed because both teams know we don't need him. 

The NFL comparisons I think are interesting.  NFL.com compares Nelson to Larry Allen and gives him an overall grade of 7.34.  Likewise, they give Edmunds a comparison to Brian Urlacher and a grade of 7.28.  Smith they compare to Deion Jones and a grade of 6.62. 

 

Of those 3, give me Larry Allen any day and twice on Sundays.  He was just THAT dominant.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Realistic mock from Casserly.  Don't like Nelson with the two LBs still on the board. 

 

We should take Mayfield then trade him to either MIA or ARIZ.

Nelson is fine, hes to good to pass on!!

[TheMose]

15 minutes ago, DougDew said:

They'd offer fair value for Mayfield, whatever that is.  I'd think about it if I thought MIA was targeting him and was just going to sit there to get him cheap, gambling that nobody else would come up and get him.   But I agree its too risky and I wouldn't do it. 

 

I don't think ILBs are that sexy of a pick.  I'd compare them to Ss, Gs and Cs rather than CBs, OTs and edges. 

 

Elite talent at LB like instincts, speed, coverage, and tackling is more impactful than the skills an elite G can provide, JMO.

I think any LB is a sexier pick than guard. Getting guards in the draft is like getting socks for Christmas. It's boring but you really need them. The kid is being called a future HOFer and a generational guard. That goes above just an elite guard. And while Edmunds and Smith are both solid picks, they aren't being viewed as guaranteed hits like Nelson is. 

[TheMose]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

They'd offer fair value for Mayfield, whatever that is.  I'd think about it if I thought MIA was targeting him and was just going to sit there to get him cheap, gambling that nobody else would come up and get him.   But I agree its too risky and I wouldn't do it. 

 

I don't think ILBs are that sexy of a pick.  I'd compare them to Ss, Gs and Cs rather than CBs, OTs and edges. 

 

Elite talent at LB like instincts, speed, coverage, and tackling is more impactful than the skills an elite G can provide, JMO.

But, I do respect your opinion and appreciate you sharing it and shedding some light on it in a respectful manner. I love a good discussion like this

[AZColt11]

I saw a great quote from Dane Brugler of NFL Draft Scout regarding Nelson:  “I’m not saying I would take him No. 1, but he’s a better guard than any player is at their position in this draft,” Brugler said. “He’s a dominant player you project as a plug-and-play. He’s nasty. He’s going to come in Day 1, and you’re going to start him and not worry about position for a long time.”

 

I would concur and I would be thrilled to have him at #6 if that's the way it shakes out, even though chubb would still be my first choice.  But this guy is a solid #2.

[Alex22]

3 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

I saw a great quote from Dane Brugler of NFL Draft Scout regarding Nelson:  “I’m not saying I would take him No. 1, but he’s a better guard than any player is at their position in this draft,” Brugler said. “He’s a dominant player you project as a plug-and-play. He’s nasty. He’s going to come in Day 1, and you’re going to start him and not worry about position for a long time.”

 

I would concur and I would be thrilled to have him at #6 if that's the way it shakes out, even though chubb would still be my first choice.  But this guy is a solid #2.

 

Nelson gives me the Joe Thomas vibes 

[Nesjan3]

Best Offensive line man since 2000 or not Guard is not valued high enough to take Nelson at 6 IMO, especially with Linebackers on the board and ILB being our weakest position on defense.

[crazycolt1]

5 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Best Offensive line man since 2000 or not Guard is not valued high enough to take Nelson at 6 IMO, especially with Linebackers on the board and ILB being our weakest position on defense.

Yep, we do need LBs for sure.

But we get no wins without keeping Luck on the field with protection. Hasn't this last 1 1/2 year told you anything?

[ClaytonColt]

Picking Nelson is pretty much my worst nightmare.

 

Building an interior line using two 1st's and a 2nd when other good teams get similar or even better production using late picks, cheap free agents or even UDFAs? It's not how you use resources in the best possible way in my book.

[Alex22]

36 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Picking Nelson is pretty much my worst nightmare.

 

Building an interior line using two 1st's and a 2nd when other good teams get similar or even better production using late picks, cheap free agents or even UDFAs? It's not how you use resources in the best possible way in my book.

 

Next year has better defensive talent overall. 

 

This class isn't so deep on defense and their isn't a standout star player that like Von Miller or Khalil Mack. 

 

Nelson would be a good pick but I am torn between trading down because I agree taking a G so high is not great value. 

[crestmount]

If Nelson is there you pick him, regardless of who else is available.  Protection for Luck still has to be the No. 1 priority.

[ClaytonColt]

38 minutes ago, Alex22 said:

 

Next year has better defensive talent overall. 

 

This class isn't so deep on defense and their isn't a standout star player that like Von Miller or Khalil Mack. 

 

Nelson would be a good pick but I am torn between trading down because I agree taking a G so high is not great value. 

I don't know much about next year class but there's always "next year" at some point we need a major talent influx on the defence.

 

I agree with those who say we need to protect Luck but from what I've seen from other teams there's better ways of doing that than simply willing the line with high round picks.

[Defjamz26]

9 hours ago, PeterBowman said:

As Casserly said in the mock...Nelson, he feels, is the best ol prospect to come out since 2000....if so, that makes him a generational talent and in a position of need..... Castonzo,Nelson, and Kelly could be a lethal left side. 

It’s a generational guard though. Not exactly the same impact as a generational Safety, RB, or corner.

[rockywoj]

Seeing Colts OL failure for more than a decade, it continues to mystify me, all these fans that devalue OG and by extension, OL.  

 

A hall of fame OG? A great OL?  Yes please!  And I don’t care that high draft picks were used to create that critical infrastructure.

[chad72]

6 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

Picking Nelson is pretty much my worst nightmare.

 

Building an interior line using two 1st's and a 2nd when other good teams get similar or even better production using late picks, cheap free agents or even UDFAs? It's not how you use resources in the best possible way in my book.

 

If Chubb is not there, Nelson is my favorite pick at No.6 next.

 

When Brady was not the QB he is now, during his early 3 SB years, Logan Mankins, Matt Light were both round 1 and round 2 picks. You need a few blue chip OL on your roster till your QB can take his game to that next level if you want sustained excellence. It can never be a negative, IMO.

 

With the plethora of second round picks, one has to evaluate if the drop off in OG quality is much higher than the drop off in LB quality. If the answer is yes, it is Nelson hands down.

[MikeCurtis]

9 hours ago, Alex22 said:

 

Nelson gives me the Joe Thomas vibes 

You may be right

 

And thats a reason why you DONT draft Nelson at 6

 

I think we would all agree that LT is crucial in an OL, a Guard is important, but , but not as important as a LT

 

With having Joe Thomas at LT, Cleveland was still horrible, for his whole career...... Cleveland lost, and lost, and lost

 

Every play, he owned his man..........  And it didnt change the outcome of the game

 

We desperately need better guard play.......  Those guys are available in late 1, round 2 and possibly 3.  Maybe not HOF, but people that can "own" the guy in front of them.  A guy blocked is a guy blocked.

 

To me, I want someone at 6 that can turn a game around.      Thats a QB, or a star Defensive player

 

To me Trumaine Edwards is that player, at that spot

 

My 2 cents

 

 

 

[DougDew]

6 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

Picking Nelson is pretty much my worst nightmare.

 

Building an interior line using two 1st's and a 2nd when other good teams get similar or even better production using late picks, cheap free agents or even UDFAs? It's not how you use resources in the best possible way in my book.

Agreed.  Over time, misusing resources catches up with you.    I don't believe the notion of a once in a lifetime G.  Getting the ball out quicker is the trend, not holding a block for 4 seconds.

 

He'd be great in an Arians style of offense.

[MikeCurtis]

As an added note

 

There is plenty of tape showing Wynn, Hernandez, and Price "owning" the guy in front of them

They all show proven ability to pass block, as well as move a 

DL person 

They rarely get beat (Almost never)

 

One of these 3 will be available in round 2

 

In every case, they appear to be better than what we have at guard, by a wide margin.

 

These three arent as good as Nelson........ but they would greatly improve our OL

 

So...... I agree that we need to improve the OL.....   its a big problem, but we can solve the problem AND get our differnce maker, on defense

 

 

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  Over time, misusing resources catches up with you.    I don't believe the notion of a once in a lifetime G.  Getting the ball out quicker is the trend, not holding a block for 4 seconds.

 

He'd be great in an Arians style of offense.

I’ll agree. What are you really saying when you call a guard “once in a lifetime”? That’s not really a thing. That’s not exactly a position that makes game changing plays. A guard does not elevate a franchise. A guard doesn’t cause an opposing coordinator to scheme around him. I’m a Nelson fan but I’d rather have the generational talent at LB in Edmunds. LBs are never that big and fast and capable of playing all 3 downs in any scheme or alignment. Or Barkely who is a rare specimen at RB. 

[MikeCurtis]

19 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I’ll agree. What are you really saying when you call a guard “once in a lifetime”? That’s not really a thing. That’s not exactly a position that makes game changing plays. A guard does not elevate a franchise. A guard doesn’t cause an opposing coordinator to scheme around him. I’m a Nelson fan but I’d rather have the generational talent at LB in Edmunds. LBs are never that big and fast and capable of playing all 3 downs in any scheme or alignment. Or Barkely who is a rare specimen at RB. 

Spot on!

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

I’ll agree. What are you really saying when you call a guard “once in a lifetime”? That’s not really a thing. That’s not exactly a position that makes game changing plays. A guard does not elevate a franchise. A guard doesn’t cause an opposing coordinator to scheme around him. I’m a Nelson fan but I’d rather have the generational talent at LB in Edmunds. LBs are never that big and fast and capable of playing all 3 downs in any scheme or alignment. Or Barkely who is a rare specimen at RB. 

And I don't think Chubb is a once in a lifetime DE.  I think he's simply the best in this class by a distinct margin.  I think its possible for Edmunds or Smith or James to be better at their positions than Chubb will be at his.  Positional value is elevating Chubb beyond the others, IMO.

[il vecchio]

Nelson is too good to pass on!

[Goatface Killah]

15 hours ago, DougDew said:

They'd offer fair value for Mayfield, whatever that is.  I'd think about it if I thought MIA was targeting him and was just going to sit there to get him cheap, gambling that nobody else would come up and get him.   But I agree its too risky and I wouldn't do it. 

 

I don't think ILBs are that sexy of a pick.  I'd compare them to Ss, Gs and Cs rather than CBs, OTs and edges. 

 

Elite talent at LB like instincts, speed, coverage, and tackling is more impactful than the skills an elite G can provide, JMO.

Watch Quenton Nelson vs LSU last year.

 

Its the most dominant tape of any prospect in the entire draft. By far.

[ClaytonColt]

6 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

If Chubb is not there, Nelson is my favorite pick at No.6 next.

 

When Brady was not the QB he is now, during his early 3 SB years, Logan Mankins, Matt Light were both round 1 and round 2 picks. You need a few blue chip OL on your roster till your QB can take his game to that next level if you want sustained excellence. It can never be a negative, IMO.

 

With the plethora of second round picks, one has to evaluate if the drop off in OG quality is much higher than the drop off in LB quality. If the answer is yes, it is Nelson hands down.

We've already got Castanzo and Kelly who are firsts plus Mewhort is a second (you could even stretch and say Clark is a third).

 

I agree that you need a couple of blue chip players but we should already have those. We should be able to fill around them like all good teams do.

 

If there's ever been a successful team who have twice the number of first round picks on their interior line than they do on their whole defense then I'd like to see them. Has it ever happened?

[Alex22]

6 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

You may be right

 

And thats a reason why you DONT draft Nelson at 6

 

I think we would all agree that LT is crucial in an OL, a Guard is important, but , but not as important as a LT

 

With having Joe Thomas at LT, Cleveland was still horrible, for his whole career...... Cleveland lost, and lost, and lost

 

Every play, he owned his man..........  And it didnt change the outcome of the game

 

We desperately need better guard play.......  Those guys are available in late 1, round 2 and possibly 3.  Maybe not HOF, but people that can "own" the guy in front of them.  A guy blocked is a guy blocked.

 

To me, I want someone at 6 that can turn a game around.      Thats a QB, or a star Defensive player

 

To me Trumaine Edwards is that player, at that spot

 

My 2 cents

 

 

 

 

Agree

[BOTT]

Barf

[TheMose]

Using early picks on O-line really helped out Dallas. We already have the game changing talent of Andrew Luck. So beef up the line and keep him on the field. Imagine Luck with Dallas's line. If Barkley and Chubb are gone, which is highly likely, pick Nelson. If all three are gone, trade back a few and get a LB or BPA

[MikeCurtis]

I dont argue the point that we need an impoved line

 

If we were one player away on this team to going to SB, and G was it, we would be on the same page

 

But:

The Cowboys didnt grab a guard in the first round in any of the last drafts

 

They drafted a Left Tackle 9th - 2011

They drafted a Right Tackle 16th - 2013

They drafted a center 31st - 2014

 

A GREAT LT prospect should go in top 10

 

If we somehow traded with Buffalo and got the 22nd pick, and somehow Nelson is there...... he is my pick

 

I dont see it though

 

[Defjamz26]

12 hours ago, DougDew said:

And I don't think Chubb is a once in a lifetime DE.  I think he's simply the best in this class by a distinct margin.  I think its possible for Edmunds or Smith or James to be better at their positions than Chubb will be at his.  Positional value is elevating Chubb beyond the others, IMO.

I feel the same way about Chubb. He’s be a great pickup but if you pass on him or he gets picked before us, it’s not like you’re missing out on JJ Watt. The real can’t miss talents in this draft are Barkley and Edmunds. Possibly James as well. 

[AZColt11]

On 4/4/2018 at 12:21 AM, Nesjan3 said:

Best Offensive line man since 2000 or not Guard is not valued high enough to take Nelson at 6 IMO, especially with Linebackers on the board and ILB being our weakest position on defense.

I certainly understand your hesitation and I respect that.  I once felt that way too until I started researching Nelson.  But this guy just seems different and it has changed my mind completely.  And I would argue that the gap between he and the others at his position is wider than the gap between say Edmunds and Smith and the rest behind them.  That's why i would have no problem taking him at #6.