Colts Release Depth Chart

[IndyScribe]

You also have to remember that Hooker only has one year of football under his belt. He's inexperienced. There's no question that he is a lot more talented than Butler, but Butler is more experienced and isn't a rookie. Hooker will go through growing pains and make mistakes. Once he's gone through that, then he can start. FS is a hard position and Hooker will need time to adjust.

[OHColtfan]

5 minutes ago, IndyScribe said:

You also have to remember that Hooker only has one year of football under his belt. He's inexperienced. There's no question he's a lot more talented than Butler, but Butler is more experienced and isn't a rookie. Hooker will go through growing pains and make mistakes. Once he's gone through that, then he can start. FS is a hard position and Hooker will need time to adjust.

The same things were said of Green last year, that he was inexperienced at safety and had to learn the position. Hope Hooker is able to overcome that and deliver something good on the field this year. Green was near to useless on D last year (and doesn't look like he will give us much this year either), Hooker has to be better than that. We need him to be.

[Jason_]

40 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

My OWN opinion is Hooker isn't ready to be a day one starter. There is no Veteran favoritism here Butler clearly has MORE experience and showed more to the coaches during Training Camp to warrant him the start. Regardless of what you think or feel they are putting the best 11 out there to win. Why in the world would you put a Rookie who hasn't showed he is capable in the lineup to stink it up? We want to WIN and win NOW, i dont care about getting a rookie "experience" if its only going to hinder the chances of us winning. Just get over it Hooker is not our starter right now and he's not ready to be our starter right now, it's as simple as that.

 

to piggy back onto all of that, which I wholeheartedly agree with...we haven't seen them in action yet.  They may wind up penciling Butler in as the starter but Hooker could easily wind up playing more snaps.  Who the starter is on paper really doesn't mean jack.  The coaches are going to use them situationally, so no matter who the "starters" are, the depth guys will get playing time as well, and if they produce, then that amount of playing time is only going to go up.

 

So we should wait until we see how many snaps each guy plays...how much actual playing time they get before vomiting all of this "I know best" excrement all over the forum.

[Jason_]

13 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

As I said, there is no substitute for experience, and Hooker isn't getting any better sitting on the bench. If it's a playbook issue, I agree, if it's an injury issue, I agree, but you will not convince me, in any way, shape or form, that Hooker sitting on the bench is the right move for Hooker or the team in the short term or the long term. Butler is more of a nickel corner, and has only played S because of the lack of starters and depth there. The fact that he's starting over Hooker is appalling. We aren't the Seattle Seahawks with the Legion of Boom, and with all due respect, Darius Butler isn't a top 10 or even top 15 Safety in the league. Either Ballard made a bad pick with Hooker and he knows something we don't, or this is another case where the "veteran" is getting favored over the rookie, and nothing is changing from when Grigson was here. I don't care what Ballard thinks in this situation, and you should have your own opinion as well, whether it differs from mine is fine, but don't base it off of what Ballard thinks.

 

well lawdy, lawdy...whatdyaknow?

 

 

41 minutes ago, TKnight24 said:

 

 

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, J@son said:

 

Maybe you don't know as much about OL play as you think you do

And maybe you just don't know as much as you think you do he was push into the QB almost everytime.

[Jason_]

Just now, jameszeigler834 said:

And maybe you just don't know as much as you think you do he was push into the QB almost everytime.

 

I haven't made any claims about his play one way or another

[NewColtsFan]

On 9/5/2017 at 7:00 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

I don't know that, but he's our 1st round pick that was, in reality, a top 5 guy in the entire draft. Butler isn't special, he has no business starting over Hooker. Hooker doesn't need to be babied. He should be starting day 1 to get valuable experience whether he struggles or not. He's not learning anything on the bench. If he's hurt, that's another story, but I haven't heard anything that says he's injured to where he can't start week 1.

 

Hooker is going to play plenty.

 

Likely more than half the snaps.

 

But he likely won't be the first snap starter.      I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

Hooker will get plenty of on-the-job training.     Remember,  it's the beginning of the season and the team is trying to win all the games it can.  

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 9/6/2017 at 7:43 AM, Defjamz26 said:

I told everyone to stop penciling in Haeg and Clark as starters on the O-Line. People kept pushing that "Grigson finally fixed the line" narrative. But that is still an awful lineup. Might as well not even let Luck start the rest of the season if you're going to put Denzel Good back on the line.

 

What I gather from this is that it's not that they're big on Vujnovich (except for Ballard who praised him) or Good, but rather they're not impressed with Haeg and Clark. This has Pagano written all over it IMO. But can't say Im shocked that Haeg and Good got beat out. They were never sure things.

 

This might be one of my favorites of yours....   (Please note the sarcasm!)

 

WHEN were you telling everyone to stop penciling in Haeg and Good?     Exactly when?      When did YOU know something that Philbin and Ballard and everyoen else in the Colts organization didn't?

 

That awful lineup (your words) was the 5th best pass blocking unit in the NFL the last 6-7 games of the 2016 regular season?      So, what did you know and when did you notice?

 

You had NO REASON to tell anyone that they shouldn't pencil those guys in because guys did well at the end of last year.    

 

The line is struggling NOW because of things you had no way of knowing.

 

-- You didn't know Kelly would break his foot.

-- You didn't know that Mewhort's knee would flare up.

-- You didn't know that Clark would mysteriously regress for reasons that no one seems to know.

-- You didn't know that Haeg would have nagging injuries.

 

You didn't know any of this.     Yet here you are telling everyone that you knew something that people in the Colts front office didn't know.    I don't know why you do this,  but you do.     And it doesn't seem to matter how many times people point out how wrong you are,  you seem to think you know better than anyone else.

 

[NewColtsFan]

15 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

As I said, there is no substitute for experience, and Hooker isn't getting any better sitting on the bench. If it's a playbook issue, I agree, if it's an injury issue, I agree, but you will not convince me, in any way, shape or form, that Hooker sitting on the bench is the right move for Hooker or the team in the short term or the long term. Butler is more of a nickel corner, and has only played S because of the lack of starters and depth there. The fact that he's starting over Hooker is appalling. We aren't the Seattle Seahawks with the Legion of Boom, and with all due respect, Darius Butler isn't a top 10 or even top 15 Safety in the league. Either Ballard made a bad pick with Hooker and he knows something we don't, or this is another case where the "veteran" is getting favored over the rookie, and nothing is changing from when Grigson was here. I don't care what Ballard thinks in this situation, and you should have your own opinion as well, whether it differs from mine is fine, but don't base it off of what Ballard thinks.

 

 

Really?      Seriously?

 

Rare is the time that the fans know better than the GM, or the HC,  or the OC,  or the DC.

 

You don't have the inside info that they have.

 

Hooker is going to play plenty.    Monachino said so today (Thrusday)     He just might not get the snaps of the opening series.....      The snap counts will be out Monday....    we'll have a better feel for it then.

 

But until then,  all you've got is an inflamed opinion based on no information.

 

 

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This might be one of my favorites of yours....   (Please note the sarcasm!)

 

WHEN were you telling everyone to stop penciling in Haeg and Good?     Exactly when?      When did YOU know something that Philbin and Ballard and everyoen else in the Colts organization didn't?

 

That awful lineup (your words) was the 5th best pass blocking unit in the NFL the last 6-7 games of the 2016 regular season?      So, what did you know and when did you notice?

 

You had NO REASON to tell anyone that they shouldn't pencil those guys in because guys did well at the end of last year.    

 

The line is struggling NOW because of things you had no way of knowing.

 

-- You didn't know Kelly would break his foot.

-- You didn't know that Mewhort's knee would flare up.

-- You didn't know that Clark would mysteriously regress for reasons that no one seems to know.

-- You didn't know that Haeg would have nagging injuries.

 

You didn't know any of this.     Yet here you are telling everyone that you knew something that people in the Colts front office didn't know.    I don't know why you do this,  but you do.     And it doesn't seem to matter how many times people point out how wrong you are,  you seem to think you know better than anyone else.

 

You read too much into things and take everything literally. But thanks for the input .  Enjoy the rest of your day sir.

[NewEra]

Well I see us colts fans are ready to go heh. Passion is always good as long as those lines aren't crossed. Then it's rear naked choke time heh

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

You read too much into things and take everything literally. But thanks for the input .  Enjoy the rest of your day sir.

 

How nice for you.

 

You want to be able to say whatever you want to say,   and then when someone calls you on it,  you want to be able to say the problem is with someone else and not you.

 

How nice.

 

In your world,  you can say whatever you want and you're never, ever wrong.

 

Tell me,  where does everyone else go to get the same great deal you have?

 

Words matter.    What you say matters.    Just the way you like to hold Chuck Pagano accountable for everything he says,   the same goes for you.       Except when you say it doesn't.......

 

 

 

 

[akcolt]

I don't see the concern about Hooker. Monchino has said he will see a lot of the field in different packages. I would guess we don't want him out there on obvious passing downs.

 

The OL really isn't shocking either.  Haeg struggled to anchor aa a G There were many on the board who were concerned that he simply lacked the strength at play inside full time. We know he's a quality utility knife back up. If that's  what he is nothing wrong with that. 

 

Everyone was excited about the idea of competition and the guy who plays the best wins the spot. Now no one wants to accept who won the battles? That's not surprising. The only portion of the competition we see are the preseason games.  An opinion from that small sample is an uninformed one. 

 

We might want to consider that running the ball is probably going to be the focus of the O with Luck down. Where did Clark struggle last year? Haeg wasn't the strongest G. Is it possible we putting an OL out there that gives us the best push in the running game? 

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

How nice for you.

 

You want to be able to say whatever you want to say,   and then when someone calls you on it,  you want to be able to say the problem is with someone else and not you.

 

How nice.

 

In your world,  you can say whatever you want and you're never, ever wrong.

 

Tell me,  where does everyone else go to get the same great deal you have?

 

Words matter.    What you say matters.    Just the way you like to hold Chuck Pagano accountable for everything he says,   the same goes for you.       Except when you say it doesn't.......

 

 

 

 

Interesting take. You seem overly concerned with other people's opinion. Perhaps message boards aren't for you if you're going to get riled up over what someone says and try to dissect the verbiage in their post to try and label them. I stand by everything I've said about Pagano and this team. Again, good day. This'll be the last you hear from me.

[1959Colts]

On 9/6/2017 at 10:43 AM, Defjamz26 said:

I told everyone to stop penciling in Haeg and Clark as starters on the O-Line. People kept pushing that "Grigson finally fixed the line" narrative. But that is still an awful lineup. Might as well not even let Luck start the rest of the season if you're going to put Denzel Good back on the line.

 

What I gather from this is that it's not that they're big on Vujnovich (except for Ballard who praised him) or Good, but rather they're not impressed with Haeg and Clark. This has Pagano written all over it IMO. But can't say Im shocked that Haeg and Good got beat out. They were never sure things.

 

I never bought into the line being fixed narrative either. However, I don't feel Good is the weak link.

Accept for Kelly,  I think they have problems all the way around.

 

Mewhort is one of the most overrated. I think he always gets a pass. Maybe based on his draft hype? 

Remember during the last few games (when the line seemed to be improving) was the time Mewhort was out of the lineup.

Costanzo has been regressing. And Clark is demoted to the bench. 

 

Last years season was very disappointing. The team was not much fun to watch.

I did not buy into the new and improved line bit.

 

However, I am cautiously optimistic with this years O-line roster shake-up.

As crazy as it seems... I look forward to watching Good, Vujnovich and Bond.

 

[DougDew]

18 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

 

 

 

Mewhort is one of the most overrated. I think he always gets a pass. Maybe based on his draft hype? 

Remember during the last few games (when the line seemed to be improving) was the time Mewhort was out of the lineup.

 

 

Agreed .  He is overrated on this forum.

[Defjamz26]

22 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

 

I never bought into the line being fixed narrative either. However, I don't feel Good is the weak link.

Accept for Kelly,  I think they have problems all the way around.

 

Mewhort is one of the most overrated. I think he always gets a pass. Maybe based on his draft hype? 

Remember during the last few games (when the line seemed to be improving) was the time Mewhort was out of the lineup.

Costanzo has been regressing. And Clark is demoted to the bench. 

 

Last years season was very disappointing. The team was not much fun to watch.

I did not buy into the new and improved line bit.

 

However, I am cautiously optimistic with this years O-line roster shake-up.

As crazy as it seems... I look forward to watching Good, Vujnovich and Bond.

 

Basically Kelly is probably the best lineman on the team. I don't think that's a crazy notion. Mewhort is good but he can't play tackle. I think he's a fine guard but not as amazing as some people proclaim. Plus he's always banged up. I think Ballard will rebuild this line around Kelly. It's possible that none of Haeg, Castonzo, Clark, Good, and Vujnovich are in the Colts long term plans. I think we have answers at center and whatever guard spot they put Mewhort at, but we've got question marks all up and down the line. Castanzo even admitted he was playing bad last season.

 

I think Ballard can get it done though. In KC he was part of the team that drafted Laurent Duvernay-Tardif. He was a 6th round pick from a school in Canada and he signed a $41.5 million extension in February. I think he can fix the line quickly.  

[Jason_]

4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

You read too much into things and take everything literally. But thanks for the input .  Enjoy the rest of your day sir.

 

Translation:

 

"NUH UH"

[1959Colts]

7 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Basically Kelly is probably the best lineman on the team. I don't think that's a crazy notion. Mewhort is good but he can't play tackle. I think he's a fine guard but not as amazing as some people proclaim. Plus he's always banged up. I think Ballard will rebuild this line around Kelly. It's possible that none of Haeg, Castonzo, Clark, Good, and Vujnovich are in the Colts long term plans. I think we have answers at center and whatever guard spot they put Mewhort at, but we've got question marks all up and down the line. Castanzo even admitted he was playing bad last season.

 

I think Ballard can get it done though. In KC he was part of the team that drafted Laurent Duvernay-Tardif. He was a 6th round pick from a school in Canada and he signed a $41.5 million extension in February. I think he can fix the line quickly.  

 

I mostly agree with your assessment, but just don't get why they are "set" with Mewhort at guard? He really hasn't been that solid at guard?

This is Mewhort's contract year and he is expected to get a large payout.

I will be watching his production very closely, and if he falters this season, I hope the team looks in another direction rather than pay the guy based on hype or reputation.

 

[Defjamz26]

11 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

 

I mostly agree with your assessment, but just don't get why they are "set" with Mewhort at guard? He really hasn't been that solid at guard?

This is Mewhort's contract year and he is expected to get a large payout.

I will be watching his production very closely, and if he falters this season, I hope the team looks in another direction rather than pay the guy based on hype or reputation.

 

Unless you're the Cowboys, Mewhort is the standard. He's like Castonzo. Not great or elite, but not bad or terrible by any means. I wouldn't pay him big bucks either but he's worth keeping for cheap. Better talent around him would mask his weaknesses. Most teams have a Mewhort somewhere on their line. I'd even say that on average the typical "good" NFL O-Line probably has 1-2, elite lineman, and the rest range between good-average/serviceable.

 

The Cowboys and Raiders are the only teams with multiple pro-bowl caliber lineman. I'm fine with Mewhort as a starting guard, but I'm not okay with overpaying him.

[akcolt]

On 9/5/2017 at 10:47 PM, Smitto said:

The Oline shuffling is an absolute joke, almost to the point of annoyance. If they cannot decide on who to start at RT or G then trade for one... Or else just stick with a crew and see how they do for the season. 

It looks like they decided on Castonzo Vujnovich Bond Mewhort Good What do you mean can't decide? 

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, 1959Colts said:

 

I never bought into the line being fixed narrative either. However, I don't feel Good is the weak link.

Accept for Kelly,  I think they have problems all the way around.

 

Mewhort is one of the most overrated. I think he always gets a pass. Maybe based on his draft hype? 

Remember during the last few games (when the line seemed to be improving) was the time Mewhort was out of the lineup.

Costanzo has been regressing. And Clark is demoted to the bench. 

 

Last years season was very disappointing. The team was not much fun to watch.

I did not buy into the new and improved line bit.

 

However, I am cautiously optimistic with this years O-line roster shake-up.

As crazy as it seems... I look forward to watching Good, Vujnovich and Bond.

 

 

For what it's worth I think I read this off season that last year was AC's best.

 

He's not great,  but he's pretty good.   I think AC grades out somewhere in the middle of 32 Left Tackles.

 

If I'm wrong, and I may be, then someone will come along and correct me.

 

 

[Smitto]

5 hours ago, akcolt said:

It looks like they decided on Castonzo Vujnovich Bond Mewhort Good What do you mean can't decide? 

They decided on those guys but that doesn't mean those are the guys they're gonna stick with... One of the big reasons why the Colts Oline has struggled is because of lack of continuity which creates cohesion. 

[DaColts85]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

For what it's worth I think I read this off season that last year was AC's best.

 

He's not great,  but he's pretty good.   I think AC grades out somewhere in the middle of 32 Left Tackles.

 

If I'm wrong, and I may be, then someone will come along and correct me.

 

 

And to feed off of this...many fans always want to discredit AC but yet he plays IMO the hardest spot on the line.  He is not the best LT in the NFL but he is far from the worst.  He is more than just serviceable and he has always been a huge asset for us.  I would happily clone him for the RT spot and feel good about it.  Just putting that out there lol.

[1959Colts]

He may be serviceable. But he gets paid like an elite player.

2nd highest salary on the team. Only Andrew Luck has a higher contract.

[DaColts85]

Just now, 1959Colts said:

He may be serviceable. But he gets paid like an elite player.

2nd highest salary on the team. Only Andrew Luck has a higher contract.

Salary does not not even equate to the other LT who sign contracts now.  He is #11 on the list and there will be other LT's who sign and get more money soon.  Salary cap changes every year plus you pay a player based on their position as well.

[richard pallo]

11 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Unless you're the Cowboys, Mewhort is the standard. He's like Castonzo. Not great or elite, but not bad or terrible by any means. I wouldn't pay him big bucks either but he's worth keeping for cheap. Better talent around him would mask his weaknesses. Most teams have a Mewhort somewhere on their line. I'd even say that on average the typical "good" NFL O-Line probably has 1-2, elite lineman, and the rest range between good-average/serviceable.

 

The Cowboys and Raiders are the only teams with multiple pro-bowl caliber lineman. I'm fine with Mewhort as a starting guard, but I'm not okay with overpaying him.

He's a starting guard who is going into his first contract after being drafted.  Of course he's going to get paid and most likely overpaid if he has a solid season.  And teams want to keep their own good players.  Brace yourself: We will probably overpay him but that's the NFL.  In two years it will look like a bargain.

[Restored]

The unfortunate part for AC is that there is this stigma (fair or not) that since he got his new contract, his performance wained. I agree that he is serviceable at LT in one of the game's hardest positions but he does need to perform better in relation to his contract. Time will tell if he can regain his 2014 form.

[Lawrence Owen]

Good playing starting tackle does not suprise me.  He had all the physical gifts, just was from a small school and needed to get antiquainted with pro ball.  2 years later, he may have finally clicked.  Heag and Clark have needed to work on defending power rushers since they were drafted, This is probably why they are not starting.  If the new guy (sorry don't have his name down yet), at Guard can hold, when Kelly gets back I think we'll have a pretty deep rotation at OL.

I am still in 'shock and awe' over how many players we had last year are not on the team anymore.  I know they said best players will stay, but in Indy, sometimes (most of the time) that was more words than actions.

 

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, richard pallo said:

He's a starting guard who is going into his first contract after being drafted.  Of course he's going to get paid and most likely overpaid if he has a solid season.  And teams want to keep their own good players.  Brace yourself: We will probably overpay him but that's the NFL.  In two years it will look like a bargain.

It depends on what you consider a "solid" season. But even then, he's injured all the time, which should be a reason to hesitate giving him a big contract. He's worth keeping but they'd probably have to do a contract that's easy to get out of if he gets injured. Maybe defer the signing bonus and dont give him a lot of guaranteed money.

 

But if we're being honest, I'm not sure how much Ballard is interested in bringing him or Moncrief (also in a contract year) back. He came in and immediately worked out deals for Doyle, Butler, and even Turbin who is just a role player. To my knowledge, there weren't even any contract talks with any of Mewhort or Moncrief's agent and they're starters. I'm sure he's looking at it as a "prove it" year for them, but the fact that he didn't even have the talks with them tells me he's not too concerned with bringing them back.

[aaron11]

4 hours ago, 1959Colts said:

 he gets paid like an elite player.

2nd highest salary on the team. 

not unusual for a left tackle, even if they are not the best player on the team

[rock8591]

5 hours ago, richard pallo said:

He's a starting guard who is going into his first contract after being drafted.  Of course he's going to get paid and most likely overpaid if he has a solid season.  And teams want to keep their own good players.  Brace yourself: We will probably overpay him but that's the NFL.  In two years it will look like a bargain.

 

IMO, we should offer either 4 years 24 million, up to 5 years 35 million max, but no more than 8 million a year.

 

One word - INFLATION. NFL and NBA salaries are rapidly inflating, much like the $5 shake in Pulp Fiction. Used to be insanely expensive inside a restaurant, now considered cheap (especially if it comes with refills).