Polian Reminisces On Peytons Recovery

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

Well I heard Bill Polian on ESPN 4 days ago saying he can throw accross his body from sideline to sideline, which is pretty awesome. That takes a lot of tortion to do. He also said he throwing at about 45 yards max. And this was before he was fired.

However, nerves regenerate at about a 25mm a month, there are 25mm in a inch so that's about 25 inches a year.

The length from your spine (Brachial Plexus) to your elbow in a 6'5 getleman like peyton is about 18 inches or somethign like that.

However, Peyton has had Stem cell treatment, and those numbers are usually attributed to people with pinched off nerves and not just pinched nerves....so, what do you think were looking at here?

[chad72]

so, what do you think were looking at here?

People just getting on Peyton's nerves . (j/k)

[jtcoltsfan]

Was Google your source on that? Not trying to be a jerk - genuinely curious, as I don't know details about nerve regeneration.

[MAC]

Polian's comments sound very encouraging. It's lovely how they completely contradict the latest rumours. And back and forth we go.

As far as nerve "regeneration", I've assumed that if the nerve was damaged it was in his neck - where the disk compressed it. I obviously could be missing something, but I'm not sure that distance healed over time is a consideration. The bigger problem is that sometimes those nerves simply don't heal - or don't heal all the way. We've had stories suggested continued improvement - which is wonderful, and stories suggesting he plateaued - which is not so wonderful. We will see (eventually).

[gacker65]

I'm wondering what caused the nerve damage.

[P-Money]

I'm wondering what caused the nerve damage.

It was pinched. His neck vertebrae caused the damaged nerve because the disc between them is deteriorating and that is why they opted to fuse the 2 together since disc don't repair themselves.

[MAC]

I'm wondering what caused the nerve damage.

As I alluded to in my post immediately preceeding yours, the nerve was presumably damaged by being impinged by a ruptured cervical disk. The surgery in the middle of the year was an attempt to decompress the nerve without having to resort to removing the disk entirely. The surgery in September was to remove the disk entirely (the prior year surgery was suppossedly a less serious problem involving a different disk).

Before having the same surgery a few years back, I was told by the surgeon "you should have it done within 90 days or risk permanent nerve damage". We don't know when Peyton first started having problems with the nerve, and we don't know if the spring surgery decompressed it or not. Either way it's reasonable to think that it may have been compressed for more than 90 days.

[gacker65]

Then why is not Peyton dead. When you pinch then nerve in you neck, you stop your heart and breathing. 20 years as an Army medic and Nurse, I have seen what happens to pinched nerves in the neck. If it is a little lower then I could understand. I also understand about fusioning the vertebrae and did 2 years working with neuro rehab. Nerves do not regenerate, either you have full feelling or you have nothing. If nerves regenerated there would not be any para or quadrapalegias. I am not buying the nerve deal. Muscle atrophy in the arm from lack of use, maybe, but again I do not think Peyton would allow that.

[MAC]

Then why is not Peyton dead. When you pinch then nerve in you neck, you stop your heart and breathing. 20 years as an Army medic and Nurse, I have seen what happens to pinched nerves in the neck. If it is a little lower then I could understand. I also understand about fusioning the vertebrae and did 2 years working with neuro rehab. Nerves do not regenerate, either you have full feelling or you have nothing. If nerves regenerated there would not be any para or quadrapalegias. I am not buying the nerve deal. Muscle atrophy in the arm from lack of use, maybe, but again I do not think Peyton would allow that.

You're thinking of his spinal cord. It was the nerve extending from his neck to his right tricep that was compressed.

[Jules]

Then why is not Peyton dead. When you pinch then nerve in you neck, you stop your heart and breathing. 20 years as an Army medic and Nurse, I have seen what happens to pinched nerves in the neck. If it is a little lower then I could understand. I also understand about fusioning the vertebrae and did 2 years working with neuro rehab. Nerves do not regenerate, either you have full feelling or you have nothing. If nerves regenerated there would not be any para or quadrapalegias. I am not buying the nerve deal. Muscle atrophy in the arm from lack of use, maybe, but again I do not think Peyton would allow that.

Give it a few more days for rumors to advance to that degree.

It's too soon.

[braveheartcolt]

I'm wondering what caused the nerve damage.

Having to look over his shoulder every day to see if Polian was about to stab him in the back....?

[WoolMagnet]

Polian out tryin to find his kid a job?

He's not a part of this organization anymore.

he didn't want to talk while he was the GM, so he should mind his own business.

Polian is on the outside, he doesn't know whats goin on.

Looks to me like he's trying to keep him and his kid relevant.

I give NO weight to Polian's comments on peyton.

Until theres video of peyton throwing all throws with zip, I'll believe the general understanding that the nerve hasn't fully regenerated.

There is no reason for peyton to "hide' if he can in fact make the throws.

[MAC]

Polian out tryin to find his kid a job?

He's not a part of this organization anymore.

he didn't want to talk while he was the GM, so he should mind his own business.

Polian is on the outside, he doesn't know whats goin on.

Looks to me like he's trying to keep him and his kid relevant.

I give NO weight to Polian's comments on peyton.

What is the justification at this point for inventing reasons to put down Polian? Still resentful because of the unprecended run of success - the , how dare he!

Regardless of how many people he irritated, Polian provided a substantial amount of interesting information on a regular basis when he was with the Colts. I am always interested in what he has to say, and mere weeks removed from Colts employment, his thoughts are far more meaningful than those of any other talking head.

And a talking head is what he is. Therefore it is now his JOB to offer his opinion. When he worked for the Colts, it was his job NOT to offer his opinion.

Either way, his son has absolutely nothing to do with anything. You sound so bitter about this I can almost hear you spitting while your typing. Not like you if memory serves.

[gacker65]

You're thinking of his spinal cord. It was the nerve extending from his neck to his right tricep that was compressed.

The whole thing from the base of the skull to the tail bone is spinal cord, but the neck has the nerves that regulate the heart and lungs (c1-c6). If the doctor caused damage to the nerves there, then Peyton will not have to play football again because of the money from the law suit. Since Peyton would not been able to throw or use the right arm (from everything I am hearing) he will have muscle lose and ill have to build the muscle back up. Since he has been throwing from sometime in December, he should be well on his way to recovery.

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

Was Google your source on that? Not trying to be a jerk - genuinely curious, as I don't know details about nerve regeneration.

Well, my anatomy class was my source, but I did get a c in that class. (but i studied very hard)

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

Then why is not Peyton dead. When you pinch then nerve in you neck, you stop your heart and breathing. 20 years as an Army medic and Nurse, I have seen what happens to pinched nerves in the neck. If it is a little lower then I could understand. I also understand about fusioning the vertebrae and did 2 years working with neuro rehab. Nerves do not regenerate, either you have full feelling or you have nothing. If nerves regenerated there would not be any para or quadrapalegias. I am not buying the nerve deal. Muscle atrophy in the arm from lack of use, maybe, but again I do not think Peyton would allow that.

Actually, (c student here in anatomy but 3.2 overall GPA) The weakness in peytons arm shows that he had a Brachial Plexus injury. Plexus meaning a pleathera of nerves. The body have many different nerves breaking off in different patway, so when something like what it happening to Peyton happens, they loose funcion in one area and not an entire area.

There Cranial nerve responsible for the Visceral organs is the Vagus Nerve, I believe it is the only cranial nerve to pass belove the cervical vertebrea, and it is responsible for the lungs, hear and other visceral organs.

Peytons recover depends mostly on how bad his nevre was damage and how well stem cell therapy would assist in his recovery, Otherwise were talking a full year for a complete nerve regeneration.

[MAC]

The whole thing from the base of the skull to the tail bone is spinal cord, but the neck has the nerves that regulate the heart and lungs (c1-c6). If the doctor caused damage to the nerves there, then Peyton will not have to play football again because of the money from the law suit. Since Peyton would not been able to throw or use the right arm (from everything I am hearing) he will have muscle lose and ill have to build the muscle back up. Since he has been throwing from sometime in December, he should be well on his way to recovery.

What are you talking about with the highlighted section? The surgery was to remove the disk that was compressing the nerve. The compression is what would have caused the damage. It is routine surgery for a routine problem. I had the same thing done myself. There isn't even a hint of negligance.

[Tony]

Gentlemen I have been fused at c3-c4 c4-c5 c5-c6 the cord was pinched off two places it took just short of a year to find a surgeon that would attempt the operation. Some was my fault and some the ER room at two hospitals messed up. but never mind that I was told going in I would come out better or a quad no half way. They did a great job I walk talk and go to the bathroom naturally. I shoot practical pistol competitions but i did end up with some of the right side does not always work. But then I did not have the rehab staff or the Dr.s That Peyton had either what I am trying to say I see no reason he should not play at the same high level he did before. and I was 53 when the accident happened not 36 your body compensates quite well for the troubled areas Yes my injury had much more damage then his and he was younger. IMO most of the talk going on is just people wanting to hear themselves talk. I hope that Peyton resumes playing and finishes his career the way he wants. I have never posted about this because I did not want to seem like a crybaby. just my dimes worth and I have talked with a lot of doctors about nerve regeneration and it is pretty much an unknown. hope this may help some people feel better about Peyton playing again.

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

Holy crap tonny that is a major surgery.

I think that Peyton will be at 100 percent come mid season next season. If he doesn't have full strength it's probably due to a middle tricep head or subcapularis muscle that has lost strenght and will take a lot of rehab to rebuild.

Since peyton only had weakness, and did not loose function in a body part, I think he will be okay.

[MAC]

Gentlemen I have been fused at c3-c4 c4-c5 c5-c6 the cord was pinched off two places it took just short of a year to find a surgeon that would attempt the operation. Some was my fault and some the ER room at two hospitals messed up. but never mind that I was told going in I would come out better or a quad no half way. They did a great job I walk talk and go to the bathroom naturally. I shoot practical pistol competitions but i did end up with some of the right side does not always work. But then I did not have the rehab staff or the Dr.s That Peyton had either what I am trying to say I see no reason he should not play at the same high level he did before. and I was 53 when the accident happened not 36 your body compensates quite well for the troubled areas Yes my injury had much more damage then his and he was younger. IMO most of the talk going on is just people wanting to hear themselves talk. I hope that Peyton resumes playing and finishes his career the way he wants. I have never posted about this because I did not want to seem like a crybaby. just my dimes worth and I have talked with a lot of doctors about nerve regeneration and it is pretty much an unknown. hope this may help some people feel better about Peyton playing again.

Wow. I've been concerned since my C6-7 surgery about the increased stress on the adjacent levels. I lost some range of motion, and certainly don't want any more surgery. If you don't mind my asking, what's your heads range of motion like? I have to tilt my whole body back to finish off a bottle of soda, and can't get my chin as close to my chest as I used to, and that's just ONE level.

[Tony]

Wow. I've been concerned since my C6-7 surgery about the increased stress on the adjacent levels. I lost some range of motion, and certainly don't want any more surgery. If you don't mind my asking, what's your heads range of motion like? I have to tilt my whole body back to finish off a bottle of soda, and can't get my chin as close to my chest as I used to, and that's just ONE level.

II have a hard time with bottles usually have to use a straw real limited on looking up some stop lights really a chore. to the right is fairly good to the left not so good. but when I consider the alternative I am good I have two more in the thoracic lumbar as well they did not do as good and the cervical but like i say everything works sith some adjustment. thanks for the post it is good to hear from others that have trouble with bottles.

[MAC]

II have a hard time with bottles usually have to use a straw real limited on looking up some stop lights really a chore. to the right is fairly good to the left not so good. but when I consider the alternative I am good I have two more in the thoracic lumbar as well they did not do as good and the cervical but like i say everything works sith some adjustment. thanks for the post it is good to hear from others that have trouble with bottles.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I used to drink WAY too much Coke anyway. What can you do. A bigger deal to me is that I have a desk job, so tilting my head down too much to see papers on the work surface can be uncomfortable. Similarly it's hard to find a good position to read a book or newspaper. Thank goodness for computers.

Keep your chin up (sorry If you don't laugh about it...........................)

[jtcoltsfan]

Well, my anatomy class was my source, but I did get a c in that class. (but i studied very hard)

thanks! i helped my mom study for anatomy and physiology when i was around 11. she was going for her qna/lpn/rn(?) and had a hard time with the class.

I did some searching on my own.. interesting stuff.

[betheafan41]

not to sound like a jerk but someone has already posted a video about this, and this source on the video was his dr who performed the last surgery. and he has said that it takes up to 2 years for the nerves to regenerate in his arm, and that it could take as little as 9 months. even then its likely that the nerve regeneration plummets back down and he end up back where he was right after surgery. and also said there is no risk to his neck after the surgery its all about his arm now. Polian dont know what hes takling about. or is trying to plea his argument for manning so mannings option will get picked up. so until irsay says he has seen it him self that manning is throwin across the field with no issue and is throwin 45 yards with zip on the ball i dont believe it. sorry like i said im not tryin to sound like a jerk about it but it seems any source other then manning himself, irsay, mannings agent and the surgeon has been wrong on anything they say.

[MAC]

not to sound like a jerk but someone has already posted a video about this, and this source on the video was his dr who performed the last surgery. and he has said that it takes up to 2 years for the nerves to regenerate in his arm, and that it could take as little as 9 months. even then its likely that the nerve regeneration plummets back down and he end up back where he was right after surgery. and also said there is no risk to his neck after the surgery its all about his arm now. Polian dont know what hes takling about. or is trying to plea his argument for manning so mannings option will get picked up. so until irsay says he has seen it him self that manning is throwin across the field with no issue and is throwin 45 yards with zip on the ball i dont believe it. sorry like i said im not tryin to sound like a jerk about it but it seems any source other then manning himself, irsay, mannings agent and the surgeon has been wrong on anything they say.

While I agree that this is all meaningless conjecture until we find out the end result:

If you are talking about the video that 21isSuperman posted last night under the thread "Manning's Injury Explained", that certainly was NOT the doctor who operated on Peyton - in fact he has no first hand knowledge or involvement at all - and his comments bear little resemblance to yours. Maybe you should watch it a couple of more times.

[braveheartcolt]

Gentlemen I have been fused at c3-c4 c4-c5 c5-c6 the cord was pinched off two places it took just short of a year to find a surgeon that would attempt the operation. Some was my fault and some the ER room at two hospitals messed up. but never mind that I was told going in I would come out better or a quad no half way. They did a great job I walk talk and go to the bathroom naturally. I shoot practical pistol competitions but i did end up with some of the right side does not always work. But then I did not have the rehab staff or the Dr.s That Peyton had either what I am trying to say I see no reason he should not play at the same high level he did before. and I was 53 when the accident happened not 36 your body compensates quite well for the troubled areas Yes my injury had much more damage then his and he was younger. IMO most of the talk going on is just people wanting to hear themselves talk. I hope that Peyton resumes playing and finishes his career the way he wants. I have never posted about this because I did not want to seem like a crybaby. just my dimes worth and I have talked with a lot of doctors about nerve regeneration and it is pretty much an unknown. hope this may help some people feel better about Peyton playing again.

And I used to play 'Operation' until I lost the little bones. Never did find out where you got the replacements.....

Off to read the Lancet now....

[braveheartcolt]

What is the justification at this point for inventing reasons to put down Polian? Still resentful because of the unprecended run of success - the , how dare he!

Regardless of how many people he irritated, Polian provided a substantial amount of interesting information on a regular basis when he was with the Colts. I am always interested in what he has to say, and mere weeks removed from Colts employment, his thoughts are far more meaningful than those of any other talking head.

And a talking head is what he is. Therefore it is now his JOB to offer his opinion. When he worked for the Colts, it was his job NOT to offer his opinion.

Either way, his son has absolutely nothing to do with anything. You sound so bitter about this I can almost hear you spitting while your typing. Not like you if memory serves.

You must having being wearing Polian Muffs when he talked his diatribe and subterfuge. He picked a handful of good players out of hundreds, got lucky with Manning, and acted like a prize jerk throughout it all. You are so quick to defend his right to offer his opinion, yet you slam Woolmagnet for voicing his very OWN opinion.......so on taking a leaf out of your book, I can vividely picture you typing whilst sitting with your Polian Scrap Book on your knee, wearing an 'I Love You Bill' Tee-shirt whilst wearing a ginger wig......

[ruksak]

You must having being wearing Polian Muffs when he talked his diatribe and subterfuge. He picked a handful of good players out of hundreds, got lucky with Manning, and acted like a prize jerk throughout it all. You are so quick to defend his right to offer his opinion, yet you slam Woolmagnet for voicing his very OWN opinion.......so on taking a leaf out of your book, I can vividely picture you typing whilst sitting with your Polian Scrap Book on your knee, wearing an 'I Love You Bill' Tee-shirt whilst wearing a ginger wig......

It is always best to debate the posters opinions, not the poster. Just because MAC espouses respect for BP, doesn't necessarily suggest that he is heading up a worldwide Polian fanclub, bordering on obsessive stalking personality traits.

[MAC]

You must having being wearing Polian Muffs when he talked his diatribe and subterfuge. He picked a handful of good players out of hundreds, got lucky with Manning, and acted like a prize jerk throughout it all. You are so quick to defend his right to offer his opinion, yet you slam Woolmagnet for voicing his very OWN opinion.......so on taking a leaf out of your book, I can vividely picture you typing whilst sitting with your Polian Scrap Book on your knee, wearing an 'I Love You Bill' Tee-shirt whilst wearing a ginger wig......

I wasn't slamming Woolmagnet "for voicing his very OWN opinion", I was expressing how much I dissagreed with him. That is what we do here. You realize that Polian is now getting paid to offer his opinion, yes? To suggest that Polian can't talk about the Colts now because "it's none of his business" is simply ludicrous - regardless of whether you acknowledge him as a hall-of-fame caliber executive who benefited the organization enormously, or think him nothing but an incredibly lucky (consistently lucky, for decades on end lucky, with five different franchises lucky) jerk.

Don't have time to write more - have to check my office for cameras.

[braveheartcolt]

I wasn't slamming Woolmagnet "for voicing his very OWN opinion", I was expressing how much I dissagreed with him. That is what we do here. You realize that Polian is now getting paid to offer his opinion, yes? To suggest that Polian can't talk about the Colts now because "it's none of his business" is simply ludicrous - regardless of whether you acknowledge him as a hall-of-fame caliber executive who benefited the organization enormously, or think him nothing but an incredibly lucky (consistently lucky, for decades on end lucky, with five different franchises lucky) jerk.

Don't have time to write more - have to check my office for cameras.

'Spitting while you type'gave it away for me. A notch-up from 'disagreeing' with him. That came across as rather nasty. Clearly my ginger wig comment was more tongue in cheek....

As usual, we'll agree to disagree on Bill...

[MAC]

'Spitting while you type'gave it away for me. A notch-up from 'disagreeing' with him. That came across as rather nasty. Clearly my ginger wig comment was more tongue in cheek....

Wasn't my intention to be nasty. I was drawing a picture of someone so frustrated that the insults couldn't come out quite right. IE: "Yeah, and your mother wears army ............ balloons". And I thought this because of the multiple references to Polians son, who was about as far removed from the story (and Polian's employer) as you or I. How any of this represents a plot to benefit him is beyond my comprehension - regardless of the veracity or appropriateness of Polians comments. In short, I said the insults made no sense to me, and then I indicated that both slinging insults and not making sense are unexpected coming from Wool Magnet - and that was intended to be quite the opposite of an insult.

In contrast your comments were intended to tweak me - regardless of what you were doing with your tongue at the time. I just chose to take them in the spirit in which they weren't intended because I'm not interested in fighting with you, and as you indicated it's not going to get us anywhere anyway. I'm warming up to you braveheart based on some less disagreeable conversations in recent weeks, but certain topics are clearly going to make both of us go ga ga. Probably best left alone.

[MAC]

It is always best to debate the posters opinions, not the poster. Just because MAC espouses respect for BP, doesn't necessarily suggest that he is heading up a worldwide Polian fanclub, bordering on obsessive stalking personality traits.

I'm running a special on memberships this month. Sign yourself up, and your son gets in for free.

[braveheartcolt]

I'm running a special on memberships this month. Sign yourself up, and your son gets in for free.

And it comes with the 'fire one get one free' guarantee! I like it!

[WoolMagnet]

What is the justification at this point for inventing reasons to put down Polian? Still resentful because of the unprecended run of success - the , how dare he!

Regardless of how many people he irritated, Polian provided a substantial amount of interesting information on a regular basis when he was with the Colts. I am always interested in what he has to say, and mere weeks removed from Colts employment, his thoughts are far more meaningful than those of any other talking head.

And a talking head is what he is. Therefore it is now his JOB to offer his opinion. When he worked for the Colts, it was his job NOT to offer his opinion.

Either way, his son has absolutely nothing to do with anything. You sound so bitter about this I can almost hear you spitting while your typing. Not like you if memory serves.

Not bitter, in fact I liked what Polian did for the organization.

HOWEVER, theres no reason for him confusing the already volitile issue when he's on the OUTSIDE now.

[WoolMagnet]

'Spitting while you type'gave it away for me. A notch-up from 'disagreeing' with him. That came across as rather nasty. Clearly my ginger wig comment was more tongue in cheek....

As usual, we'll agree to disagree on Bill...

I thought so too but no problem.

You know, its funny how some (and I really mean all of us) yell from the rooftops to respect each others opinions but don't always follow their own advice.

Oh well, its been a difficult year.

[ruksak]

You know, its funny how some (and I really mean all of us) yell from the rooftops to respect each others opinions but don't always follow their own advice.

I wish we had a 'Flame the person above you' thread. It would allow us to have a little fun while venting.

[WoolMagnet]

I wish we had a 'Flame the person above you' thread. It would allow us to have a little fun while venting.

That would be funny when we'd all be banned for a couple days.

That might be the "break" we all need from this.

[ruksak]

That would be funny when we'd all be banned for a couple days.

That might be the "break" we all need from this.

Here I'll get us started;

WoolMagnet is so ugly, he could sink his face in dough and make Halloween cookies.

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

Here I'll get us started;

WoolMagnet is so ugly, he could sink his face in dough and make Halloween cookies.

Anyway, I think that Polian was teling the truth.

And I think that all this talk is just a ploy to get other teams to give up more for the 1st overall pick in the draft, so they know that we REALLY REALLY REALLY want Andrew luck (but in truth we really really wan to trade it)

I Think Irsay knows that Peytons prognosis is very good, and is trying to manipulate the leauges perception on thier value of Luck.

[Tony Sullivan]

This MAC guy has no idea what he's talking about, they don't remove discs, WTH?

They fused 2 verterbrae together, they don't cut them out.