2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think in order for the Cavs to have a chance against the Warriors next season they have to keep everyone and add a Free Agent. What if they added Hayward? Nobody has talked about that. Having said that how far over the Salary Cap would that put them then? They are already 34,000,000 mill over. Dan Gilbert is probably at the point thinking, man I am a billionaire but these taxes are getting hefty!

You can't sign anyone when your over the cap without a trade exception. They can only go over the cap to re-sign their own players or sign vet minimum players. GS by letting Barbosa, Ezieli, and Barnes go and trading Bogut I believe got under the cap and then signed Durant....then they could go over the cap to re-sign Livingston  because he was their own free agent. Then signed Guys nobody wanted in Pachula and Magee and then West signed on for the ring. Cleveland can't do that. They can't add another big name player without shipping out massive contracts. They can't add without trading and who is going to trade them something for nothing? The NBA isn't MLB but yet it isn't a hardcap like NFL. Now this offseason Durant and Curry will be free agents but since they are GS assets they can go over the cap to sign them they just have to pay the tax....something our owner won't do.

 

Fact is neither of those teams will be making big adjustments without a trade. They will sign some 1 yr vets who are ring chasing to 1 yr contracts. Guys that you see like Jefferson, D Williams, West, etc. Neither can bring in free agent for more than minimum contracts and even just making trades they have to make salary match. You can go over the cap to sign your own...but not just for anyone. That is why baring injuries to GS it's hard to see Cleveland topping them. They can't just tweet. They have to make a big move to change up the dynamic...to me Butler is that 3D tough nosed kinda guy and he is good friends with Kyrie.....so Love is the only asset to get him. It isn't like Love is tearing up the Warriors...they have better chance replacing his rebounding and 3pt shooting than finding a guy to take burden off Lebrons defense and playmaking when he sits. Love can't get his own shot.

[2006Coltsbestever]

32 minutes ago, dgambill said:

You can't sign anyone when your over the cap without a trade exception. They can only go over the cap to re-sign their own players or sign vet minimum players. GS by letting Barbosa, Ezieli, and Barnes go and trading Bogut I believe got under the cap and then signed Durant....then they could go over the cap to re-sign Livingston  because he was their own free agent. Then signed Guys nobody wanted in Pachula and Magee and then West signed on for the ring. Cleveland can't do that. They can't add another big name player without shipping out massive contracts. They can't add without trading and who is going to trade them something for nothing? The NBA isn't MLB but yet it isn't a hardcap like NFL. Now this offseason Durant and Curry will be free agents but since they are GS assets they can go over the cap to sign them they just have to pay the tax....something our owner won't do.

 

Fact is neither of those teams will be making big adjustments without a trade. They will sign some 1 yr vets who are ring chasing to 1 yr contracts. Guys that you see like Jefferson, D Williams, West, etc. Neither can bring in free agent for more than minimum contracts and even just making trades they have to make salary match. You can go over the cap to sign your own...but not just for anyone. That is why baring injuries to GS it's hard to see Cleveland topping them. They can't just tweet. They have to make a big move to change up the dynamic...to me Butler is that 3D tough nosed kinda guy and he is good friends with Kyrie.....so Love is the only asset to get him. It isn't like Love is tearing up the Warriors...they have better chance replacing his rebounding and 3pt shooting than finding a guy to take burden off Lebrons defense and playmaking when he sits. Love can't get his own shot.

Problem is if they get rid of Love, they have very little Rebounding. They are kind of screwed it sounds like. Their Big's are already iffy, Thompson has been a dud.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I will say this, imagine if the Warriors weren't around how much the LeBron GOAT talk would be going on? I mean if it wasn't for them LeBron would've ran through the league the last 3 years and be getting Ring #5. How would that would be good for the league either? I ask to the people saying the Warriors are ruining the league? I guess if it's your favorite team and your narrative it would be great , I don't necessarily like the Warriors being this dominant either but I would rather see this than LeBron winning 10 Championships in a row like Tom Brady is doing. Keep in mind this is only the Warriors 2nd Championship so it's not like it is getting ridiculously irritating that they are winning every year either. They have never Repeated or 3-Peated like many past teams have.

[Malakai432]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I will say this, imagine if the Warriors weren't around how much the LeBron GOAT talk would be going on? I mean if it wasn't for them LeBron would've ran through the league the last 3 years and be getting Ring #5. How would that would be good for the league either? I ask to the people saying the Warriors are ruining the league? I guess if it's your favorite team and your narrative it would be great , I don't necessarily like the Warriors being this dominant either but I would rather see this than LeBron winning 10 Championships in a row like Tom Brady is doing. Keep in mind this is only the Warriors 2nd Championship so it's not like it is getting ridiculously irritating that they are winning every year either. They have never Repeated or 3-Peated like many past teams have.

 

Yeah I agree the Warriors don't bother me so much. . . . yet!  

 

If they just continue to win championship, after championship, after championship it will.  In the end though I don't see how these teams can sustain long term.  One would think they would have to break up after contracts expire but then players may take substantial paycuts to play with their buddies and remain on their super team.  I have no clue.

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

 

Yeah I agree the Warriors don't bother me so much. . . . yet!  

 

If they just continue to win championship, after championship, after championship it will.  In the end though I don't see how these teams can sustain long term.  One would think they would have to break up after contracts expire but then players may take substantial paycuts to play with their buddies and remain on their super team.  I have no clue.

It wont last, they may win again next year (probably will) but there will be another team come along in a couple of years and dethrone them. Nothing lasts in the NBA. Shaq and Kobe 3-Peated from 2000-2002 and then the Lakers didn't win again until 2009. Diehard LeBron fans are just pee'd because he wont get more glory now and go down as the GOAT or near it because the Warriors are there blocking it. I really wish the Bulls in the 90's had some team come along similar to the Warriors to stop Jordan once or twice. Man it drove me insane watching Jordan win every year. At least Magic had Bird's teams to deal with and he still won 5.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Regarding my before season picks on this Site, I am doing pretty well if the Warriors close this out. I have been here since the summer of 2015 and have made before season picks in each Football, Basketball, and Baseball. Keep in my mind these have been BEFORE THE SEASON even starts:

2015 in Football - I picked Broncos (nailed it)

2016 in Football - I picked the Packers (they did make it to the NFC Title Game)

 

2016 in Basketball - I picked the Spurs (well that wasn't good, OKC beat them in Round 2)

2017 in Basketball - I picked the Warriors (looking like a nail)

 

2016 in Baseball - I picked the Cubs (nailed it)

2017 in Baseball - I picked the Cubs again (yet to be determined)

 

*Probably the worst pick I have ever made on this Site was picking Michigan St to win the NCAA Tourney in 2016 - they lost in Round 1, at least my UCLA pick this past Tourney(2017) went to the Sweet 16.

[oldunclemark]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

McMillan is a huge part of the problem. I wanted Vogel gone but never wanted McMillan. That was a worse hire than your favorite Coach - Chuck . I would rather have Chuck  

next year, we'll want another coach

Its always the coach's fault..in every sport

 

I think looking us objectively, our problem is not coaching

[Boilermaker]

16 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Lebron did exactly what he's been known to do, which is disappear when needed most. He did NOTHING the last 7 minutes of the game. He's been doing this for years. Everybody always calls out his final stat line, but when it comes to those final pressure minutes, in games like this, GHOST... 

 

Lebron scored 2 points in the final 7 minutes... let that sink in.... 

 

 

Great players want the ball to close out the game, and KD did exactly that. Lebron? He decided to give it away to Korver TWICE in the final minute... laughable. 

 

The difference between the Cav's and Warriors? One plays as a team, the other can't run/play an offense to save their lives. Isolation offense is street ball stuff, and Cleveland is getting exposed. They've practically ruined Love. He's the easiest guy to guard in the league. He just wants to sit around the 3pt line all game. Kyrie and Lebron just want to continue running Isolation, and grabbing "their" points. 

 

Lebron, Harden, and Westbrook are all the same (Lebron has been fortunate because he's had more help), they will fill their stats, but as far as running/directing and offense to make the team better? Freakin TERRIBLE. 

 

I can't wait to see Lebron get swept AGAIN. 

This post is so bad that it doesn't even warrant a response tbh. You should have just typed "I hate LeBron" and it would've sent the same message rather than typing all that nonsense. 

[Chrisaaron1023]

Game 4 tonight. I can't wait, I wanna see history! And I think we will. I think the Warriors are going to dominate tonight. 120 to 97

[Luck is Good]

34 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Game 4 tonight. I can't wait, I wanna see history! And I think we will. I think the Warriors are going to dominate tonight. 120 to 97

I agree. Cavs couldn't play any better than they did Wednesday and still lost. Sweep City

[aaron11]

nate is not the answer, at least not to any of the right questions

 

win now mode is the last thing this team should be worried about

 

they should be worried about how to stay relevant in the future

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, Luck is Good said:

I agree. Cavs couldn't play any better than they did Wednesday and still lost. Sweep City

Yeah I don't see Kyrie playing better that is for sure. This is looking over now. Cavs came out the other night like Smokin Joe and gave Ali all they can handle only to run out of gas.

[RockThatBlue]

17 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

If they add Paul George, I think they're right back in it.  Kyrie/George/LeBron would be lethal

The Cavs are the last team I would want to see PG go to. 

[Luck is Good]

59 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

The Cavs are the last team I would want to see PG go to. 

I would hate him and/or the front office till the end of time

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I would hate him and/or the front office till the end of time

I don't see anyway that can happen because they have nothing good they can give us other than Love. It would take more than Love though and other than Kyrie nobody else on that team is close to being as great as PG. Cavs would never part ways with Kyrie or LeBron as they are trying to add to those guys.

[21isSuperman]

19 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah but the only way to do that is trade us what? They don't have anything they can offer us worth anything. They need Kevin Love as well IMO with those 3.

Yeah, they have nothing they'd be willing to trade that would be a fair return.  I wouldn't accept Love and all of their draft picks will be in the 29/30 range.

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, RockThatBlue said:

The Cavs are the last team I would want to see PG go to. 

It would ruin the NBA for sure.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Could it be 16-0?? Here are some Big4's from Great all-time teams:

2017 Warriors - Durant, Curry, Green, Thompson

1996 Bulls - Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc

1987 Lakers - Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Scott

1986 Celtics - Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Yeah, they have nothing they'd be willing to trade that would be a fair return.  I wouldn't accept Love and all of their draft picks will be in the 29/30 range.

I agree 100%, I wouldn't either. I would take Kyrie and some picks if I knew for sure PG was leaving because Kyrie is young and basically a SuperStar as well. Cavs would never trade Kyrie though, it would defeat their purpose.

[BleedBlu8792]

20 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/lebron-may-be-the-most-clutch-playoff-shooter-of-his-generation/

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58575/lebron-james-isnt-clutch-think-again

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/11/8584749/lebron-james-michael-jordan-game-winning-shots

 

 

The guy who's now on his way to losing his 5th, of 8, Finals, who has scored a whole 11 points through three games in the 4th quarter so far. Who has had more than a handful of finals games where he's scored ZERO in the 4th quarter. I could chart what he's done in the final minutes of Finals games, which I promise you isn't clutch, and show you why and how he's lost 5 Finals appearances. Again, hell just look at what he's done so far in this series as I pointed out. (11 points in 36 4th quarter minutes). heckuva clutch player there. He's played in the weak butt East his whole career. He's never had much of a challenge outside of playing the mid to late Boston teams and the 2013-2015 Pacers teams. Those stats from those links are against teams in early rounds they should have been beating anyways. 

 

20 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Goodness.  This post is filled with so much nonsense.  Your hatred for LeBron (and I can't understand why people hate him, so if you could explain that too, that would be great) is getting in the way of you seeing the facts. 

 

1) LeBron played for 46/48 minutes.and his team was +7 during that stretch.  He rested for 2 minutes (because heaven forbid he's actually human and gets tired) and the team went -12.  The Cavs literally gave up one point for every 10 seconds he rested.  Blaming LeBron is nonsense.  He did his part.  If you want to look for people to blame, how about Tristan Thompson?  Where's he been?

 

2) The difference between the Cavs and Warriors is simply firepower.  The Warriors have more firepower than any team in the league by far.  They were a 73-win team and added a top 5 player.  It's absurd to think any team in the league would be able to keep up with that. 

 

3) The Cavs can't run an offense to save their lives?  They were the 4th ranked offensive team in the league during the regular season and 2nd in the playoffs.  They scored 113 points in games 2 and 3.  What are you talking about?

 

4) And how can you say LeBron is bad at directing an offense when he's one of the best passers in the game?

 

No more hating than you fanboy'ing the guy. No mid range game. No post game, which is absolutely embarrassing for a guy his size. His only real go to is to lower his shoulder and run through the defender, which if called offensive charge like it should be, what's left to his game besides being good in fastbreaks/transition. Sure, he'll have his nights hitting a few 3's, but who in the league doesn't? OVERRATED!

 

1) And? Jordan played every minute - 48 - of the "flu" game and hit the final shot to win the game and the title in 97'. The greats don't defer when the seat gets hot. Just like Durant coming down in the last 45 seconds of the game and busting Lebrons % to go ahead with his 3 pointer. Do you really think Durant is coming down and looking to pass the ball in those moments? Where has Tristan been? Really? They barely use him in pick and roll situations, he's mainly been used to pick for Lebron and Kyrie in isolation situations. It's hard to be involved in the game when the offense being ran (ISO) is forcing him out of the paint, so his stat filling teammates can keep trying to 1 on 1 the GS defenders. Tristan is being pulled away from where could be at and making plays. Getting only 1-3 shots a night is not on him, especially when Kyrie, Lebron, Love, JR, and Korver are all wanting to brick 3 pointers all night. 

 

2) HAHAH.... You don't think Love sitting around the 3 point line all game has anything to do with them being inefficient? You take one of the best low post big men in the game, and sit him on the 3 point line and expect him to go to work? The guy went 1-9, with 7 of those 9 being 3 pointers!?!?! As I stated in the previous post, he's literally the easiest guy in the NBA to guard now. Cleveland has practically ruined the guy. Again, they are committing suicide by trying to out shoot a great shooting team instead of beating Draymond, Pachulia, and Durant up down low with Love, Thompson, and James. They are playing soft and stupid, and are getting beat in both phases (outside and down low). There is no reason that GS should be beating the Cavs in paint points, and they aren't only getting beat, but they are getting beaten decisively. 

 

This doesn't even take into account how lazy Cleveland, as a whole, has been on defense as well. 

 

3) See 2... No they can't, ISO is garbage against good teams like GS who can actually guard well against it. That % worked against the EC teams because they out talented everybody, but against GS who can actually man up against it, they are getting exposed. GS doesn't really have to do much other than get off basic screens and protect the 3 point line. GS has it pretty easy defensively. Kyrie or Lebron is either attacking the lane, or they are kicking out for 3's. How hard is that to defend?

 

Back to the point I made in 2, I would have Draymond and Pachulia in foul trouble early on with Love, who Draymond couldn't defend 1 on 1 on the block, and Thompson doing the same on Pachulia. I would be as physical as possible with GS down low, get those guys in foul trouble and look for free buckets, while also slowing the game down. But again, they'd much rather shoot ~half of their total shots behind the 3 point line.

 

4) Not sure where being a great passer means they can run/direct an offense. Driving and kicking isn't running/directing an offense nor does it mean he's a great passer, or you're trying to say there are a lot of great passers in the league to which I will agree based off what you believe then. 

 

Once they are either swept tonight, or done in 5 in Oakland, the excuses and crying will continue regardless. It just further proves he's nothing more than a good NBA player whose been overhyped by the league, and the media. It's a wrap for Lebron...

[Chrisaaron1023]

5 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

It would ruin the NBA for sure.

I don't know why the NBA gets such a bad rep about "no parity". This is the 3rd year these two teams have made it. The 2 times both teams won for the first time in my lifetime. I think a lot of sports fans in general should look around at the other sports and relax about the NBA.

 

NFL.. do we really need to go in depth at who rules here.

College Football.. oh shucks Bama lost in the last seconds of the champishion game. they'll be back for the 1083971th time next year.

College Basketball..is a little better.. but Duke.. NC.. random random UConn outta no where..Kentucky..

NHL.. Pens..Kings..Blackhawks repeat..

Womans College Basketball... UConn every year

All the Major sports here in the US with the exception of baseball.. so all sports should be like baseball??

 

[Luck is Good]

5 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

I don't know why the NBA gets such a bad rep about "no parity". This is the 3rd year these two teams have made it. The 2 times both teams won for the first time in my lifetime. I think a lot of sports fans in general should look around at the other sports and relax about the NBA.

 

NFL.. do we really need to go in depth at who rules here.

College Football.. oh shucks Bama lost in the last seconds of the champishion game. they'll be back for the 1083971th time next year.

College Basketball..is a little better.. but Duke.. NC.. random random UConn outta no where..Kentucky..

NHL.. Pens..Kings..Blackhawks repeat..

Womans College Basketball... UConn every year

All the Major sports here in the US with the exception of baseball.. so all sports should be like baseball??

 

You make a good case. But PG to the Cavs would make it a cinch to win the East every single year

[2006Coltsbestever]

16 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

I don't know why the NBA gets such a bad rep about "no parity". This is the 3rd year these two teams have made it. The 2 times both teams won for the first time in my lifetime. I think a lot of sports fans in general should look around at the other sports and relax about the NBA.

 

NFL.. do we really need to go in depth at who rules here.

College Football.. oh shucks Bama lost in the last seconds of the champishion game. they'll be back for the 1083971th time next year.

College Basketball..is a little better.. but Duke.. NC.. random random UConn outta no where..Kentucky..

NHL.. Pens..Kings..Blackhawks repeat..

Womans College Basketball... UConn every year

All the Major sports here in the US with the exception of baseball.. so all sports should be like baseball??

 

That's why I don't get the hate for the Warriors from some. They have only been in this for 3 years and they even lost last season. It's not like they have been in it 7 years in a row like LeBron has - yeah that would get annoying. The Bulls annoyed the hell out of me during the 90's but they were in it 6 times and won all 6. It will take a couple of more years before my Warriors annoyance starts LOL. Right now I am ok with them and I am happy Durant and West will get Rings, both players have had great career's and deserve one.

[Chrisaaron1023]

2 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

You make a good case. But PG to the Cavs would make it a cinch to win the East every single year

But really, any team with LeBron is going to clinch the East.

 

I honestly think Lebron will rest for the 1st half of the season. Then enter the playoffs the 8th seed. And still sweep the east

[Chrisaaron1023]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That's why I don't get the hate for the Warriors from some. They have only been in this for 3 years and they even lost last season. It's not like they have been it 7 years in a row like LeBron has - yeah that would get annoying. The Bulls annoyed the hell out of me during the 90's but they were in it 6 times and won all 6. It will take a couple of more years before my Warriors annoyance starts LOL. Right now I am ok with them and I am happy Durant and West will get Rings, both players have had great career's and deserve one.

You're right. I honestly feel this way about all teams.

Lakers got boring after 02

Spurs really redundant after 2005

I rooted for Lebron in Miami just because I hated the Celtics and was tired of them.

Now Warriors will get their fill in a few years if they keep this level of play.

 

But, would we complain if JJ Watt joined Suh in Miami and Rodgers, Nelson, and Cobb took their talents to Miami too? "Oh the NFL is ruined" HELL no, we'd be like.. kick the crap outta the big bully on the block.

[2006Coltsbestever]

21 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

The guy who's now on his way to losing his 5th, of 8, Finals, who has scored a whole 11 points through three games in the 4th quarter so far. Who has had more than a handful of finals games where he's scored ZERO in the 4th quarter. I could chart what he's done in the final minutes of Finals games, which I promise you isn't clutch, and show you why and how he's lost 5 Finals appearances. Again, hell just look at what he's done so far in this series as I pointed out. (11 points in 36 4th quarter minutes). heckuva clutch player there. He's played in the weak butt East his whole career. He's never had much of a challenge outside of playing the mid to late Boston teams and the 2013-2015 Pacers teams. Those stats from those links are against teams in early rounds they should have been beating anyways. 

 

 

No more hating than you fanboy'ing the guy. No mid range game. No post game, which is absolutely embarrassing for a guy his size. His only real go to is to lower his shoulder and run through the defender, which if called offensive charge like it should be, what's left to his game besides being good in fastbreaks/transition. Sure, he'll have his nights hitting a few 3's, but who in the league doesn't? OVERRATED!

 

1) And? Jordan played every minute - 48 - of the "flu" game and hit the final shot to win the game and the title in 97'. The greats don't defer when the seat gets hot. Just like Durant coming down in the last 45 seconds of the game and busting Lebrons % to go ahead with his 3 pointer. Do you really think Durant is coming down and looking to pass the ball in those moments? Where has Tristan been? Really? They barely use him in pick and roll situations, he's mainly been used to pick for Lebron and Kyrie in isolation situations. It's hard to be involved in the game when the offense being ran (ISO) is forcing him out of the paint, so his stat filling teammates can keep trying to 1 on 1 the GS defenders. Tristan is being pulled away from where could be at and making plays. Getting only 1-3 shots a night is not on him, especially when Kyrie, Lebron, Love, JR, and Korver are all wanting to brick 3 pointers all night. 

 

2) HAHAH.... You don't think Love sitting around the 3 point line all game has anything to do with them being inefficient? You take one of the best low post big men in the game, and sit him on the 3 point line and expect him to go to work? The guy went 1-9, with 7 of those 9 being 3 pointers!?!?! As I stated in the previous post, he's literally the easiest guy in the NBA to guard now. Cleveland has practically ruined the guy. Again, they are committing suicide by trying to out shoot a great shooting team instead of beating Draymond, Pachulia, and Durant up down low with Love, Thompson, and James. They are playing soft and stupid, and are getting beat in both phases (outside and down low). There is no reason that GS should be beating the Cavs in paint points, and they aren't only getting beat, but they are getting beaten decisively. 

 

This doesn't even take into account how lazy Cleveland, as a whole, has been on defense as well. 

 

3) See 2... No they can't, ISO is garbage against good teams like GS who can actually guard well against it. That % worked against the EC teams because they out talented everybody, but against GS who can actually man up against it, they are getting exposed. GS doesn't really have to do much other than get off basic screens and protect the 3 point line. GS has it pretty easy defensively. Kyrie or Lebron is either attacking the lane, or they are kicking out for 3's. How hard is that to defend?

 

Back to the point I made in 2, I would have Draymond and Pachulia in foul trouble early on with Love, who Draymond couldn't defend 1 on 1 on the block, and Thompson doing the same on Pachulia. I would be as physical as possible with GS down low, get those guys in foul trouble and look for free buckets, while also slowing the game down. But again, they'd much rather shoot ~half of their total shots behind the 3 point line.

 

4) Not sure where being a great passer means they can run/direct an offense. Driving and kicking isn't running/directing an offense nor does it mean he's a great passer, or you're trying to say there are a lot of great passers in the league to which I will agree based off what you believe then. 

 

Once they are either swept tonight, or done in 5 in Oakland, the excuses and crying will continue regardless. It just further proves he's nothing more than a good NBA player whose been overhyped by the league, and the media. It's a wrap for Lebron...

I will let you and Superman debate this because you quoted him but I will say LeBron has disappeared in many of 4th Qtr's in Finals play, he did the other night after putting up monster numbers in the 1st 3 Qtr's. My Top 3 players of all-time are Jordan 1, Magic 2, Kareem 3 - that is my concrete 3. To me Jordan is the GOAT with 6 Championships(6-0 in Finals), 6 Finals MVP's, and 5 League MVP's. Magic is #2, with 5 Championships, 3 Finals MVP's, and 3 League MVP's, Magic also had over 10,000 Assists in his career and only played 12 seasons in doing so. Kareem is #3, with 6 Championships - he won one with the Bucks before even playing with Magic, he also won 6 League MVP's which is the most in NBA history, and he is the NBA All-Time Leading Scorer with over 38,000 Points.

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I will let you and Superman debate this because you quoted him but I will say LeBron has disappeared in many of 4th Qtr's in Finals play, he did the other night after putting up monster numbers in the 1st 3 Qtr's. My Top 3 players of all-time are Jordan 1, Magic 2, Kareem 3 - that is my concrete 3. To me Jordan is the GOAT with 6 Championships(6-0 in Finals), 6 Finals MVP's, and 5 League MVP's. Magic is #2, with 5 Championships, 3 Finals MVP's, and 3 League MVP's, Magic also had over 10,000 Assists in his career and only played 12 seasons in doing so. Kareem is #3, with 6 Championships - he won one with the Bucks before even playing with Magic, he also won 6 League MVP's which is the most in NBA history, and he is the NBA All-Time Leading Scorer with over 38,000 Points.

LeBron picked the most inopportune time to disappear. Down 2-0 to the Warriors and he gets thoroughly outplayed by KD in the 4th quarter. We've seen it numerous times. Won't happen tonight though because that game won't even be close going down the stretch

[Luck is Good]

12 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

But really, any team with LeBron is going to clinch the East.

 

I honestly think Lebron will rest for the 1st half of the season. Then enter the playoffs the 8th seed. And still sweep the east

Kyrie, LeBron and PG would absolutely sweep the East

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Luck is Good said:

LeBron picked the most inopportune time to disappear. Down 2-0 to the Warriors and he gets thoroughly outplayed by KD in the 4th quarter. We've seen it numerous times. Won't happen tonight though because that game won't even be close going down the stretch

LeBron also disappeared in 4th Qtr of games against Mavs in 2011 and Spurs in 2014. So he has done this a few times where his teams ended up losing.

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

LeBron also disappeared in 4th Qtr of games against Mavs in 2011 and Spurs in 2014. So he has done this a few times where his teams ended up losing.

If his team gets swept again, that would mean LeBron in the Finals would've been swept twice and one other time, got beat by a record margin. That sure doesn't sound like someone who should be considered the best ever

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Luck is Good said:

If his team gets swept again, that would mean LeBron in the Finals would've been swept twice and one other time, got beat by a record margin. That sure doesn't sound like someone who should be considered the best ever

The Spurs beat his team in 2014 4-1 as well. He had Wade, Bosh, and Allen then. I give him a pass for 2007 though, he had crap around him that year.

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Spurs beat his team in 2014 4-1 as well. He had Wade, Bosh, and Allen then. I give him a pass for 2007 though, he had crap around him that year.

And by a record margin as well. Spurs just obliterated Miami that year. That was pure revenge from the year prior. Man that was a massacre

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I will let you and Superman debate this because you quoted him but I will say LeBron has disappeared in many of 4th Qtr's in Finals play, he did the other night after putting up monster numbers in the 1st 3 Qtr's. My Top 3 players of all-time are Jordan 1, Magic 2, Kareem 3 - that is my concrete 3. To me Jordan is the GOAT with 6 Championships(6-0 in Finals), 6 Finals MVP's, and 5 League MVP's. Magic is #2, with 5 Championships, 3 Finals MVP's, and 3 League MVP's, Magic also had over 10,000 Assists in his career and only played 12 seasons in doing so. Kareem is #3, with 6 Championships - he won one with the Bucks before even playing with Magic, he also won 6 League MVP's which is the most in NBA history, and he is the NBA All-Time Leading Scorer with over 38,000 Points.

I will follow this up by saying, Wilt and Shaq are the 2 most dominant players I ever seen in the paint though. I never seen Wilt live but have seen video of him and anyone that can score 100 Points in a game has to be mentioned in the GOAT convo. Shaq between 2000-2002 was simply a BEAST and I watched him live! Here's some great trivia for everyone, who is the only player in NBA history other than Jordan to win 3 straight Finals MVP's?

 

-Answer = Shaq O'Neal from 2000-2002.

[RockThatBlue]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

It would ruin the NBA for sure.

That's an understatement

[dgambill]

19 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Problem is if they get rid of Love, they have very little Rebounding. They are kind of screwed it sounds like. Their Big's are already iffy, Thompson has been a dud.

GS has shown signing rebounding and big stiffs isn't hard. There are unlimited amounts of athletic bigs that can't shoot that are just sitting on the end of the bench. Guys like Butler that can do everything include carry a team while Lebron and Irving is sitting the bench and can be a lock down defender is hard to find. Love gone also makes room for Frye to play more for them. Tristen is their rebounding machine he is just suffering the Kardassian curse right now. Plus Thompson contract is untradeable.

[RockThatBlue]

11 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

next year, we'll want another coach

Its always the coach's fault..in every sport

 

I think looking us objectively, our problem is not coaching

Coaching is a problem. How often this year did we see Nate do no adjustments? It was such a rarity that it was nearly shocking when he did change up something. 

 

Nate has been an NBA coach for nearly 20 years, and he has only one playoff series win in all of those years. That's not the mark of a good coach. 

 

And lets not even talk about his absolute failure in the blown lead to the Cavs. That was awful, Nate went away from EVERYTHING that was working. It was one of the worst coaching debacles I have ever seen. 

[Luck is Good]

11 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

next year, we'll want another coach

Its always the coach's fault..in every sport

 

I think looking us objectively, our problem is not coaching

The coach plays a major part in the team winning or losing. That's just a fact. Looking at it objectively would be to say the Pacers need a new coach. It's like IU basketball was with Tom Crean. They won't be a threat as long as the same guy is there. I wanted him gone after the Syracuse debacle four years ago

[RockThatBlue]

2 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

The coach plays a major part in the team winning or losing. That's just a fact. Looking at it objectively would be to say the Pacers need a new coach. It's like IU basketball was with Tom Crean. They won't be a threat as long as the same guy is there. I wanted him gone after the Syracuse debacle four years ago

Yeah I don't get the thinking of how a coach can never be blamed for anything. Sure he didn't make the team, but hes the main play caller, designs the schemes etc...

[Luck is Good]

10 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Yeah I don't get the thinking of how a coach can never be blamed for anything. Sure he didn't make the team, but hes the main play caller, designs the schemes etc...

If the Pacers were gonna fire Frank Vogel, they should've gotten someone from outside the staff. Promoting McMillan was so ridiculous

[RockThatBlue]

2 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

If the Pacers were gonna fire Frank Vogel, they should've gotten someone from outside the staff. Promoting McMillan was so ridiculous

I agree. It was a bad decision. I was fine with a change, but McMillan wasn't who we needed.