PFF: Colts' secondary ranks 31st(out 32) and TJ Green is dead last in both overall and coverage grades

[colts8718]

2 hours ago, corgi said:

I think Pagano was the one who jumped up on the table and was screaming "Draft him!"

Our great DEFENSIVE coach who is still building the MONSTER 

[Kyle]

I think we will keep Butler at S and Green at CB.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

17 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I think we will keep Butler at S and Green at CB.

I doubt he converts to CB, he'd be a walking PI.

[tikyle]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yeah but you usually draft guys who can at least play football. Green can't do anything tbh. It's a lot to expect him to make some huge turn around in year 2.

 

We will see.  I like that he got a lot of PT this year.  I cannot say that he will not be a bust though.  His first step will be to wrap up.  He blows up a lot of plays but just hits and fails to actually make a successful tackle.  He also needs to see what he hits and keeps his head up.  Too many 15 yard penalties.

[corgi]

1 hour ago, colts8718 said:

Our great DEFENSIVE coach who is still building the MONSTER 

He prefers Mr. DB-Whisperer-Guru-Wizard.

[aaron11]

4 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

And look at all the progress we made because of it.

we made a lot of progress at center

 

went from worst in the league to at least average with a rookie, he should get better too, Saturday wasnt an all pro his first season

 

as for luck getting hit so much, we were never going to fix that with a single draft pick.  some of that is on him, his receivers not getting open and on play calling

[Steamboat_Shaun]

23 hours ago, stitches said:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-secondaries-this-season/

 

 

 

My eye test doesn't seem to have lied to me. TJ Green seemed like a complete liability every time he was required to cover. I don't think he ever turns his head towards the ball in coverage. It's really discouraging that we didn't see any progress whatsoever by the end of the year. I felt like this was a wasted pick at the time and I still have hard time justifying it.

 

Per PFF after the 2015 season: Giants rookie S Landon Collins is bottom-four in yards allowed, YAC & TDs against. Not surprisingly, he's our lowest graded S in coverage.

 

Believe it or not, guys have a tendency to improve after their rookie campaigns.

[ClaytonColt]

41 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

we made a lot of progress at center

 

went from worst in the league to at least average with a rookie, he should get better too, Saturday wasnt an all pro his first season

 

as for luck getting hit so much, we were never going to fix that with a single draft pick.  some of that is on him, his receivers not getting open and on play calling

I wasn't talking about progress just purely on the offensive line. I was talking about progress in terms of the only thing that matters - progress as a team.

 

We've spent so much high end draft resource trying to protect Luck and give him weapons that we're now in the defensive situation we are in today. Nothing displays that more to me than taking a player at an offensive position which can succesfully be filled creatively at 18.

 

Pretty much every player we have starting for us on offense is a high end draft pick. Pretty much every defensive player was a middle of the road free agent or a later round pick. Even Green who is our highest defensive pick was a project.

 

Too much focus on one side of the ball and - in my view - it's the wrong side of the ball.

[stitches]

32 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Per PFF after the 2015 season: Giants rookie S Landon Collins is bottom-four in yards allowed, YAC & TDs against. Not surprisingly, he's our lowest graded S in coverage.

 

Believe it or not, guys have a tendency to improve after their rookie campaigns.

Outliers are not great as examples for what you can expect, but point taken and I hope we get to witness similar improvement from Green.

[austriancolt]

What did you expect? A bad GM drafts a bad player who is coached by a bad HC... 

[RockThatBlue]

9 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

Can't dispute what you're saying given the results.

 

That said, if you take a "good" secondary and provide them almost no pass rush whatsoever, then that "good" group will start looking average pretty quickly. 

 

The longer you're asked to cover, the harder it is to succeed.  And the deck is already stacked against DBs with all of the holding, illegal contact, and pass interference penalties that get called/enforced these days.

 

I think Pagano likes guys that can play man coverage/press coverage.  However, when guys like Melvin play, they usually have him play zone and they have to give him Safety help over the top (trying to mask the weakness of one player can adversely affect the remaining pieces in the Secondary).

Solid points. No doubt a lack of pass rush hurts the secondary. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 hour ago, ClaytonColt said:

I wasn't talking about progress just purely on the offensive line. I was talking about progress in terms of the only thing that matters - progress as a team.

 

We've spent so much high end draft resource trying to protect Luck and give him weapons that we're now in the defensive situation we are in today. Nothing displays that more to me than taking a player at an offensive position which can succesfully be filled creatively at 18.

 

Pretty much every player we have starting for us on offense is a high end draft pick. Pretty much every defensive player was a middle of the road free agent or a later round pick. Even Green who is our highest defensive pick was a project.

 

Too much focus on one side of the ball and - in my view - it's the wrong side of the ball.

That's what I'm saying. It's time to use some high resources on defense now. It's overdue. 

[RockThatBlue]

4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yeah but you usually draft guys who can at least play football. Green can't do anything tbh. It's a lot to expect him to make some huge turn around in year 2.

I wouldn't say its a lot to expect. Plenty of bad rookies make jumps in their 2nd and 3rd years. We just need to hope Green does as well. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Outliers are not great as examples for what you can expect, but point taken and I hope we get to witness similar improvement from Green.

 

The biggest knock on Collins coming into that draft was that he was very suspect in coverage. Here's the archived thread where I pulled that from. Giants fans were absolutely killing him last year...

 

http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=527057

[ClaytonColt]

20 minutes ago, 12to13 said:

That's what I'm saying. It's time to use some high resources on defense now. It's overdue. 

I'm definitely agreeing with you. Just also adding that I thought it was time to do that last year as well but we got caught up in the criticism of the offensive line and prioritized that instead. 

[SilentHill]

Apparently he's not happy about it...

 

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

Apparently he's not happy about it...

 

That's a bit troubling too. Instead of thinking "I was bad and I need to improve", he feels the need to % on the messenger that has delivered the obvious message that he had a horrible year.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

That's a bit troubling too. Instead of thinking "I was bad and I need to improve", he feels the need to % on the messenger that has delivered the obvious message that he had a horrible year.

 

Meh, I don't care about his response to PFF. They just called him the worst safety in the league, after calling him the worst safety in the draft. His feathers should be ruffled. 

 

Doesn't mean he doesn't see the need to improve...