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Prospective head coaching candidates [Merge]

Mr. Too Proud

By Mr. Too Proud
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21isSuperman

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6 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

I deleted all but the one point above that I found interesting.  HIs verbose offense is not anything close to the reason he never had a franchise QB, which in itself is a debatable point.  Rich Gannon was pretty damn good with Gruden.

 

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/10/26/Bucs/Bennett_races_to_get_.shtml

 

Quote

Bennett, acquired by the Bucs in a trade 10 days ago, is like a wide-eyed freshman trying to master coach Jon Gruden's voluminous and unnaturally verbose playbook. It is unlike any Bennett has witnessed with three other teams in seven NFL seasons.

 

"Every other offense was words to numbers," said Bennett, 29, a former first-round pick by the Vikings in 2001. "This one, you have to deal with numbers, colors, go back to your ABCs again. It's like going from one-plus-one-is-two to pi-equals-this. It's challenging. It makes you study. It makes you learn. You need to know the offense to be out on the field."

 

Perhaps having a franchise QB is the wrong term.  What I meant to say is Gruden had his best success with experienced QBs.  He and Gannon got a lot accomplished, but Gannon was in his mid-30s when he got to Oakland, so he had a lot of NFL experience under his belt.  Brad Johnson was also over 30 years old when he and Gruden worked together in Tampa and won a Super Bowl together.  From 2002 to 2008, the Bucs drafted three QBs: Chris Simms, Josh Johnson, and Bruce Gradkowski.  Of those guys, Simms started 15 games for the Bucs in his career, Gradkowski started 11, and Johnson started 0 during Gruden's time.  The point I was trying to make is Gruden does better with older and more experienced QBs than he does with young QBs due in part to his verbose offensive plays.

 

Young QBs, especially in today's game with how college offenses operate, can't always handle being in the huddle and spitting out an 8-10 word offensive play.  For example, I wouldn't feel comfortable pairing a rookie Marcus Mariota with Gruden's playbook.  But Luck and Gruden have a lot of experience running similar offenses.  Pair that with Luck's intelligence and I would absolutely feel comfortable putting Luck and Gruden together.

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On 12/22/2016 at 8:00 PM, Mr. Too Proud said:

Just not a fan on McDaniels. Brady won with Charlie Weis and Bill O’Brian. To my untrained eyes their offensive system never changed between the 3 coordinators. I understand he throws in a wrinkle here and there but at the end of the day do you believe that the student (Mcdaniels) can beat the teacher (The Hoodie)? If not why hire someone to hang AFC championship banners until the hoodie retires?

I would just steer clear of anyone whose only claim to success is working under Belichick.  They never seem to do very well and I think that is because Belichick micromanages everything on the team.  A coordinator elsewhere, fine, just not from the Pats. 

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On 11/23/2016 at 6:56 PM, 21isSuperman said:

I think McDaniels is also an exceptionally bright OC who knows how to cater his gameplans to the opposing defense.  In the recent Pats-Seahawks Super Bowl, the Seahawks DBs kept playing off coverage, giving all of the Pats receivers free releases off of the line.  McDaniels noticed this and kept calling for short passes to slowly but surely move the ball down the field.  The result of that was that Brady ended the game setting a Super Bowl record with 37 completions, and the Pats won.  I think McDaniels does a great job of catering his offense to take advantage of what the defense shows.  My only concern with him (and Matt Patricia, who is another guy I like) is the history of Bill Belichick's assistants when they leave New England.

 Brady was MVP as the result of many injuries to the seahawk defense

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On 12/20/2016 at 4:53 PM, loudnproudcolt said:

Two quick thoughts. At the end of the season when Irsay makes a decision, and I assume we don't make the playoffs, he needs to think more about the division we play in. 8-8 in the AFC South would be 5-11 in many other divisions. Yes you can make the opposite argument about weaker divisions, but our division is weak, and it should be a factor.

 

Second, I have not heard the name yet, but what about New Orleans OC Pete Carmichael. He has worked under Payton, and I have heard nothing but good things about his play calling. I know it is a big step up, but his name was mentioned last year before Irsay surprised everyone!

That might be an interesting choice, I would be okay with bringing in a very good OC that could work with Luck as long as we couple them with a strong DC.  Think Rex Ryan will take a step back if he gets fired this year?  

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jvan1973

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On 12/21/2016 at 11:35 AM, jskinnz said:

 

I would not be surprised by anything on January 2nd.  I think there has been more than enough swings and misses by both Grigson & Pagano in their respective roles to warrant a change.  I also really like those stable franchises who have the courage stay the course when a season or two does not go as planned.  And Grigson's and Pagano's overall resume is really pretty good.  So there I am - squarely on the fence.

 

I like your thoughts that the grass is not necessarily greener elsewhere.  There is certainly no guarantee that they become world-beaters with a regime change.  

 

But to you last sentence - would you still be saying that about Grigson if Colts had won the games they really should have won?  They could be very realistically be 9-5 or 10-4.  My point is that they were good enough talent wise to win those games but a Pagano brain-fart here or a bad play from Luck there and they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Totally agree.    The coaches could have been better,  but so could our elite players.   Just a tough year.   I could see irsay going either way on cleaning house

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jskinnz

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28 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Totally agree.    The coaches could have been better,  but so could our elite players.   Just a tough year.   I could see irsay going either way on cleaning house

 

One thing to me that gets lost in all of this "get rid of them" talk is the financial investment Irsay made in both Pagano & Grigson just last year.  I know there is a sense among those not paying the bills that he should cut them loose regardless of the cost because he already has multi-millions.  He may still go down that road but that is mucho dinero tied up in those guys and even the mega-rich are not fond of paying out that kind of money

 

Just a consideration.

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31 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Gruden said he would have been interested last year 

 

No.     Jon Gruden absolutely did NOT say that.    At all.     Ever.

 

And here's how I know....

 

1.)   Coaches do not as a rule comment on jobs that are not open.    Because it makes them look like they're shoving a fellow coach out the door and under the bus.    "Hey, Jim Irsay,  if you fire Chuck Pagano,  you can hire me because I'd love to coach Andrew Luck.     Oh, and if you fire him and want to hire me,  you've just given me all the leverage I need in negotiations."

 

2.)    If that had happened,  it would've been turned into a thread almost as long as 3,000 post Darrius Hayward-Bey thread of a few years ago.      And that didn't happen.       There wasn't even a 300 post thread about it.

 

It simply didn't happen.     Not in anyones wildest imagination.

 

Sorry,   but if you want to prove me wrong,  you're going to have to find a link and post it here for all to see.

 

And feel free to start your own thread so everyone can see it and it won't get lost amidst everything else here.

 

Good luck with that.....

 

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34 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

There was a link in one of the other threads 

 

There may be a link with quotes from Gruden about how much he likes and admires Andrew Luck,  but that's as close as you'll get.       

 

If you can find it,  please post it here and anywhere else you can.     Lets make sure everyone sees it.

 

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Colts_Fan12

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22 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There may be a link with quotes from Gruden about how much he likes and admires Andrew Luck,  but that's as close as you'll get.       

 

If you can find it,  please post it here and anywhere else you can.     Lets make sure everyone sees it.

 

Ask 21isSuperman about it he was in the discussion and is a moderator I've lost what thead it was in 

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Colts_Fan12

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Done.

 

I've sent him a private message asking for help.

 

Hopefully we'll hear from him tomorrow.....

 

 

I've been looking for the past 10 mins but I can't for the life of me remember what topic that was in someone said that he said he would be interested on MNF and they had a link 

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Colts_Fan12

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9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Done.

 

I've sent him a private message asking for help.

 

Hopefully we'll hear from him tomorrow.....

 

 

It wasn't a quote from him it was just a back and forth between 2 posters about how he said he would of listened last year if we called or something along those lines and there was a link at the time 

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1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I've been looking for the past 10 mins but I can't for the life of me remember what topic that was in someone said that he said he would be interested on MNF and they had a link 

 

That sounds like a conversation with our friend JShipp.

 

He was the one going on and on and on about Gruden and how HE, JShipp knew that Gruden would leave MNF for the Colts if we threw 8-10 mill at him.

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

It wasn't a quote from him it was just a back and forth between 2 posters about how he said he would of listened last year if we called or something along those lines and there was a link at the time 

 

Yes,   that would be JShipp.      He's convinced that Gruden would dump MNF to coach the Colts.

 

Well.....       here's another reason I know there was no hint from Gruden.....

 

Because if he had even dropped a hint about wanting to coach either the Colts or Andrew Luck,   it would be a BIG story everywhere.

 

Every sports media outlet would have it.     ESPN, NFL.com,  CBS Sports,  Bleacher Report,  Pro Football Talk,  everyone would have some type of story.         And do you know who has that story?

 

No one.     Because it never happened.     There was no hint of anything like it.     Not even a little bit.

 

The only recent story about Gruden and MNF was Gruden himself saying he's happy at MNF and that he loves what he does and it keeps him close to the game of football and  that's pretty much it.      He made no mention of the Colts or Luck.

 

Look....   a week from now if Pagano has been fired and Gruden gets hired JShipp is going to tell everyone here that he knew it and he called it.      But that will be a textbook example of a broken clock being right twice a day.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yes,   that would be JShipp.      He's convinced that Gruden would dump MNF to coach the Colts.

 

Well.....       here's another reason I know there was no hint from Gruden.....

 

Because if he had even dropped a hint about wanting to coach either the Colts or Andrew Luck,   it would be a BIG story everywhere.

 

Every sports media outlet would have it.     ESPN, NFL.com,  CBS Sports,  Bleacher Report,  Pro Football Talk,  everyone would have some type of story.         And do you know who has that story?

 

No one.     Because it never happened.     There was no hint of anything like it.     Not even a little bit.

 

The only recent story about Gruden and MNF was Gruden himself saying he's happy at MNF and that he loves what he does and it keeps him close to the game of football and  that's pretty much it.      He made no mention of the Colts or Luck.

 

Look....   a week from now if Pagano has been fired and Gruden gets hired JShipp is going to tell everyone here that he knew it and he called it.      But that will be a textbook example of a broken clock being right twice a day.

 

 

I used to want gruden but I find myself wanting josh mcdaniels now he's my 1st Choice 

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DalTXColtsFan

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I don't understand the Gruden love.  He did a good job with a talent-loaded Raiders team, but then the year he left Bill Callahan, a HORRIBLE head coach, took his team to the Super Bowl (something Gruden could not accomplish with them).

 

True, Gruden took Dungy's team to a Super Bowl win his first year, but then IN THE NEXT 6 YEARS WON A TOTAL OF A WHOPPING 0 PLAYOFF GAMES.  As a matter of fact they only won 45 REGULAR SEASON games in 6 years!  Pagano already has 48 in only 5 years!

 

Pagano and Grigson have only gone TWO years without a playoff win and everyone is calling for their heads.

 

If the COLTS had crappy QBs for 6 years, Gruden was their coach and went 6 years without a playoff win would you be wanting Irsay to retain him?  NO WAY.

 

Why is a guy who went 6 years without a playoff win even in the conversation?

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aaron11

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3 minutes ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

I don't understand the Gruden love.  He did a good job with a talent-loaded Raiders team, but then the year he left Bill Callahan, a HORRIBLE head coach, took his team to the Super Bowl (something Gruden could not accomplish with them).

 

True, Gruden took Dungy's team to a Super Bowl win his first year, but then IN THE NEXT 6 YEARS WON A TOTAL OF A WHOPPING 0 PLAYOFF GAMES.

 

Pagano and Grigson have only gone TWO years without a playoff win and everyone is calling for their heads.

 

If the COLTS had crappy QBs for 6 years, Gruden was their coach and went 6 years without a playoff win would you be wanting Irsay to retain him?  NO WAY.

 

Why is a guy who went 6 years without a playoff win even in the conversation?

i doubt gruden will ever be a colt

 

we absolutely could have had him last year, according to his own comments

 

jimmy didnt give him a call though, so he must not be interested

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aaron11

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8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yes,   that would be JShipp.      He's convinced that Gruden would dump MNF to coach the Colts.

 

Well.....       here's another reason I know there was no hint from Gruden.....

 

Because if he had even dropped a hint about wanting to coach either the Colts or Andrew Luck,   it would be a BIG story everywhere.

 

Every sports media outlet would have it.     ESPN, NFL.com,  CBS Sports,  Bleacher Report,  Pro Football Talk,  everyone would have some type of story.         And do you know who has that story?

 

No one.     Because it never happened.     There was no hint of anything like it.     Not even a little bit.

 

The only recent story about Gruden and MNF was Gruden himself saying he's happy at MNF and that he loves what he does and it keeps him close to the game of football and  that's pretty much it.      He made no mention of the Colts or Luck.

 

Look....   a week from now if Pagano has been fired and Gruden gets hired JShipp is going to tell everyone here that he knew it and he called it.      But that will be a textbook example of a broken clock being right twice a day.

 

 

gruden said himself that he was very interested in the colts job if they had fired pagano last year

 

it wasnt a news story, he said it verbally on mnf recently

 

of course he has to say he's happy where he is at now too.  hes not going to come out and say, yeah i cant wait to dump this job and get back into coaching.  thats why he phrased his comment -

 

" if the job were available last year..."

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jvan1973

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15 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

gruden said himself that he was very interested in the colts job if they had fired pagano last year

 

it wasnt a news story, he said it verbally on mnf recently

 

of course he has to say he's happy where he is at now too.  hes not going to come out and say, yeah i cant wait to dump this job and get back into coaching.  thats why he phrased his comment -

 

" if the job were available last year..."

If he said that,  there would be a clip of it

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rockywoj

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For the fun of it, I Googled the question.  The answer that came up ...

 

According to the MMQB's Peter King, former NFL head coach and current ESPN analyst Jon Gruden would have listened "very earnestly" if the Colts had fired Chuck Pagano.

 

So that is just an opinion by Peter King.  I have yet to find any quotes direct from the source, Jon Gruden.

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aaron11

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10 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If he said that,  there would be a clip of it

this is older, but he basically reiterated what was said in this article on mnf a few weeks ago.  it was just a quick verbal comment too, im not sure why everyone thinks the media would jump all over that. 

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/1/11/10749220/report-jon-gruden-would-have-listened-very-earnestly-if-colts-had-come-calling

 

i wouldnt even want gruden personally, apparently irsay doesn't either

 

 

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jvan1973

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1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

this is older, but he basically reiterated what was said in this article on mnf a few weeks ago.  it was just a quick verbal comment too, im not sure why everyone thinks the media would jump all over this. 

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/1/11/10749220/report-jon-gruden-would-have-listened-very-earnestly-if-colts-had-come-calling

 

i wouldnt even want gruden personally, apparently irsay doesn't either

 

 

That isn't a quote,  that's speculation from Perer King

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