2016-2017 Indiana Pacers season (and the rest of the NBA)

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Honestly, if PG13 doesn't sign an extension before the deadline next year, the Pacers should trade him.  I am sure some team out there is willing to rent him for a year or half of year with the hope of signing him long term.  That might also scare the Lakers into making a deal with the Pacers, who knows?  The Lakers have a lot of young pieces, Boston has the #1 pick plus young assets, the T'Wolves have young assets, those 3 teams would be 3 good ones to trade with. 

I am not a fan of D' Angelo Russell, I think he is immature and a poor Defender. He also shoots a very poor % from the field for someone who was supposed to be a great shooter coming out of college. He shoots 41% from the field, that is poor. 45% is ideal like Kobe shot (the upper 40's is even more ideal), anything worse than 45% is questionable. If I trade PG I want the #2 Pick, Ingram and Randle. PG is a SuperStar so I need to walk away with 2 potentially All-Stars and that pick. Ingram has huge upside and Randle is tough on the Boards.

[BullsColtsFan1]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not a fan of D' Angelo Russell, I think he is immature and a poor Defender. He also shoots a very poor % from the field for someone who was supposed to be a great shooter coming out of college. He shoots 41% from the field, that is poor. 45% is ideal like Kobe shot (the upper 40's is even more ideal), anything worse than 45% is questionable. If I trade PG I want the #2 Pick, Ingram and Randle. PG is a SuperStar so I need to walk away with 2 potentially All-Stars and that pick. Ingram has huge upside and Randle is tough on the Boards.

Ingram and George play the same spot so that'd be a good swap.  Randle puts in 13 points 8 rebounds and 4 assists, I think he'll be a Zach Randolph in the near future, I know what your saying about Russell but he plays much better off the ball.  He averaged 19 5 and 4 while shooting around 50% and 37% from 3 when playing off the ball.  If the Lakers stand pat, they'll draft Ball and move Russell to the 2.  I don't think Russell is an ideal PG for a franchise, more of a combo/sg.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Ingram and George play the same spot so that'd be a good swap.  Randle puts in 13 points 8 rebounds and 4 assists, I think he'll be a Zach Randolph in the near future, I know what your saying about Russell but he plays much better off the ball.  He averaged 19 5 and 4 while shooting around 50% and 37% from 3 when playing off the ball.  If the Lakers stand pat, they'll draft ball and move Russell to the 2. 

I still wouldn't give PG up unless I get great return. That is just what my offer would be if I am the Pacers. I would say to Magic, you want PG then I want Ingram, Randle, and the #2. The Lakers still get to keep Russell and would have their SuperStar in PG + with PG that would attract other Free Agents to LA which is another perk Magic would have.

[BullsColtsFan1]

30 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I still wouldn't give PG up unless I get great return. That is just what my offer would be if I am the Pacers. I would say to Magic, you want PG then I want Ingram, Randle, and the #2. The Lakers still get to keep Russell and would have their SuperStar in PG + with PG that would attract other Free Agents to LA which is another perk Magic would have.

I agree but I think the Lakers think they can sign PG in the summer of 2018, tank another year(to get another decent pick) and keep their young core.  George can play the 2 or 3.  If they stood pat and signed him in 2018 they'd probably start Russell George Ingram Randle 2018 Draft pick.  I do think a team like Boston would throw a decent offer at the Pacers for George in hopes to get him to sign long term.  If not they'd take a chance on him to try n get over the hump at least next year.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I agree but I think the Lakers think they can sign PG in the summer of 2018, tank another year(to get another decent pick) and keep their young core.  George can play the 2 or 3.  If they stood pat and signed him in 2018 they'd probably start Russell George Ingram Randle 2018 Draft pick.  I do think a team like Boston would throw a decent offer at the Pacers for George in hopes to get him to sign long term.  If not they'd take a chance on him to try n get over the hump. 

If I am dealing with Boston, I would say Ainge - I want the #1, Bradley and Crowder. At least with the #1 pick the Pacers could draft Fultz and stay away from Ball who would be a horrible fit in Indy. Ball is a west coast guy and I am sure his dad wants no part of Indy. I would love Fultz in Indy.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If I am dealing with Boston, I would say Ainge - I want the #1, Bradley and Crowder. At least with the #1 pick the Pacers could draft Fultz and stay away from Ball who would be horrible fit in Indy. Ball is a west coast guy and I am sure his dad wants no part of Indy. I would love Fultz in Indy.

We are in no position to demand that much anymore that ship has sailed

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

We are in no position to demand that much anymore that ship has sailed

Well then I just keep PG and pray he stays because I am not giving him up for a bag of chips. That is just as bad as not getting anything for him if some team is going to offer me junk.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Well then I just keep PG and pray he stays because I am not giving him up for a bag of chips. That is just as bad as not getting anything for him if some team is going to offer me junk.

A top pick and a young player isn't junk it's 10 times better then getting left with nothing 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

A top pick and a young player isn't junk it's 10 times better then getting left with nothing 

Ok you are right there I admit but I want more and so should the Pacers. I get what you are saying though. If we can get the #1 or 2 pick and Ingram or Bradley that is better than nothing but for a SuperStar we would still be getting fleeced.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ok you are right there I admit but I want more and so should the Pacers. I get what you are saying though. If we can get the #1 or 2 pick and Ingram or Bradley that is better than nothing but for a SuperStar we would still be getting fleeced.

Oh we would definalty be getting fleeced but I'd much rather be left with Fultz Ingram and Turner then just Turner should habe traded him this past deadline if we were wanting a kings ransom tho

[aaron11]

im starting to question if PG is the guy thats going to lead us to a title anyway

 

we have only come close one year since hes been here and that was on a team that was #1 on defense.  then teams figured out hibbert and that was that

 

if we can get a lottery pick and another player, then maybe "rebuild" for a year we can be at least as good as we are now, maybe better

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Oh we would definalty be getting fleeced but I'd much rather be left with Fultz Ingram and Turner then just Turner 

I agree 100%

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, aaron11 said:

im starting to question if PG is the guy thats going to lead us to a title anyway

 

we have only come close one year since hes been here and that was on a team that was #1 on defense.  then teams figured out hibbert and that was that

 

if we can get a lottery pick and another player, then maybe "rebuild" for a year we can be at least as good as we are now, maybe better

 

He could be but we need 1 more player. If we could somehow get Hayward to come here than we could contend IMO. Hayward is from here so who knows. PG, Hayward, Turner, Teague, Lance - look great to me. I doubt Hayward leaves Utah, he loves it there and they have a good team.

[Malakai432]

Yeah this situation ticks me off.  In the end I think we'll keep PG and still just continue to be mediocre next year.  I really don't have much confidence.  You pretty much have three options.

1.  Trade him and try to obtain as much as you can for him - possible 3 way trade???

2.  Keep him and bring in someone like Gordon or some other studs.

3.  Keep him while not making any moves and just hope the team gets much better as a whole. 

 

Thing is his trade value may be deteriorated since his contract is almost up.  If he goes to a random team for a kings ransom, they're most likely just using him for one year.  The media and himself will eventually drive him to LA.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

Yeah this situation ticks me off.  In the end I think we'll keep PG and still just continue to be mediocre next year.  I really don't have much confidence.  You pretty much have three options.

1.  Trade him and try to obtain as much as you can for him - possible 3 way trade???

2.  Keep him and bring in someone like Gordon or some other studs.

3.  Keep him while not making any moves and just hope the team gets much better as a whole. 

 

Thing is his trade value may be deteriorated since his contract is almost up.  If he goes to a random team for a kings ransom, they're most likely just using him for one year.  The media and himself will eventually drive him to LA.

Yeah we have some huge decisions to make, no wonder why Larry quit  

[RockThatBlue]

3 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

I don't think any team is going to trade for PG unless its a sign and trade which Paul won't agree to. If he wants to be on the Lakers or a contender, The Hawks and Nuggets would be playing themselves with one year left on his contract.

The Pacers would be so incredibly dumb if they just let PG walk for nothing. Thats the dumbest thing they could do, hopefully they can do a trade. You have to get something back for a player like him.

[Malakai432]

56 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah we have some huge decisions to make, no wonder why Larry quit  

 

I know bird said he quit because of desire, he wanted to move on but I think there was more to it than that.  I don't think he wanted to be a part of this decision lol.  The timing just seems off!  He has the biggest decision to make of his Pacers career then is just like "Ohhh I lost the desire, and want to move on???"  That kind of sounds odd.  Watch him come back in 2-3 years  .

[Malakai432]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

The Pacers would be so incredibly dumb if they just let PG walk for nothing. Thats the dumbest thing they could do, hopefully they can do a trade. You have to get something back for a player like him.

 

The ONLY way I would see PG staying is if they brought in some other studs and made a run at the ECF.  I do really think the guy wants to win a championship with Indiana if he could but that would take a resounding effort.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I agree but I think the Lakers think they can sign PG in the summer of 2018, tank another year(to get another decent pick) and keep their young core.  George can play the 2 or 3.  If they stood pat and signed him in 2018 they'd probably start Russell George Ingram Randle 2018 Draft pick.  I do think a team like Boston would throw a decent offer at the Pacers for George in hopes to get him to sign long term.  If not they'd take a chance on him to try n get over the hump at least next year.

LA doesn't have their pick next year...its unprotected....so for LA its now....I think 18 and 19 draft picks are gone so they might as well start the rebuild now....plus if you land George you are much more likely to convince say Griffen to sign. I think they keep the pick....that's the issue with leverage. They will try to send us scraps but if we hold strong and make them think hey George is all nba next year he could re-sign with Pacers for 70 million more than us that's almost too much to pass up I'd think. Call their bluff. Then maybe they throw in Ingram, Randle and some throw ins maybe Clarkson or Nance. They can have Ball, PG, Russell, Griffen, Mozgoff as a start to the Magic era. It isn't the best we could have done but its best we might be able to get. If we land the 2nd pick then I look to move it and 18 to Sacremento for 5 and 10 pick. Ball stays in California??? Maybe that works. All I know is no matter what I don't think we are going to be happy. We don't have the assets to make our team better around Paul...and no matter what we get for him its not equal...so we just are going to have to suck it up. NBA already has colluded to get PG to LA...no point in resisting.

[Malakai432]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

LA doesn't have their pick next year...its unprotected....so for LA its now....I think 18 and 19 draft picks are gone so they might as well start the rebuild now....plus if you land George you are much more likely to convince say Griffen to sign. I think they keep the pick....that's the issue with leverage. They will try to send us scraps but if we hold strong and make them think hey George is all nba next year he could re-sign with Pacers for 70 million more than us that's almost too much to pass up I'd think. Call their bluff. Then maybe they throw in Ingram, Randle and some throw ins maybe Clarkson or Nance. They can have Ball, PG, Russell, Griffen, Mozgoff as a start to the Magic era. It isn't the best we could have done but its best we might be able to get. If we land the 2nd pick then I look to move it and 18 to Sacremento for 5 and 10 pick. Ball stays in California??? Maybe that works. All I know is no matter what I don't think we are going to be happy. We don't have the assets to make our team better around Paul...and no matter what we get for him its not equal...so we just are going to have to suck it up. NBA already has colluded to get PG to LA...no point in resisting.

 

I agree it's kind of a futile situation but what if someone like the Celtics offer their first to use him for a year??

[RockThatBlue]

2 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

 

I agree it's kind of a futile situation but what if someone like the Celtics offer their first to use him for a year??

Boston was one of the teams pursuing him before the deadline, and now they got the #1 pick to offer.

[2006Coltsbestever]

If it comes to dealing with the Lakers I have to have that #2 and Ingram no matter what. Or definitely no deal. I also want Randle as well but that is just me dealing. I am giving up Paul freakin George here, a Superstar that has made the Conference Finals taking LeBron James 7 games! He is a guy that can also attract other Free Agents playing in a market in LA, so I would need something in return that is, well a lot!

[dgambill]

9 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

 

I agree it's kind of a futile situation but what if someone like the Celtics offer their first to use him for a year??

That would be crazy dumb on their part. Not that I wouldn't do the deal but they aren't that desperate and there is chance they could land Gordon Haywood or Blake Griffen without giving up a pick and then they could trade for Butler who is under contract...just doesn't work with PG really.

[Malakai432]

Just now, dgambill said:

That would be crazy dumb on their part. Not that I wouldn't do the deal but they aren't that desperate and there is chance they could land Gordon Haywood or Blake Griffen without giving up a pick and then they could trade for Butler who is under contract...just doesn't work with PG really.

 

True and I think they were awarded the top pick.  I'm wondering if there's any teams in the West that are competitors that would do that. . .  No clue, I'm sure they may be able to work out some kind of a 3 way trade just to dump him off for something but who knows what they would get in return. 

 

In the end I guess we will find out!  Should be interesting.

[Bluefire4]

43 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

The Pacers would be so incredibly dumb if they just let PG walk for nothing. Thats the dumbest thing they could do, hopefully they can do a trade. You have to get something back for a player like him.

It would have to be Lakers if we want something back of value.

 

Many say it would be dumb to let someone walk for nothing but it has happened before with KD being the latest example.

 

There were also teams desperate to get anything for a star they wanted to trade and ended up getting fleeced like the Thunder with James Harden.

 

If we trade this off-season, it needs to be the right deal imo.

 

 

[oldunclemark]

2 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

It would have to be Lakers if we want something back of value.

 

Many say it would be dumb to let someone walk for nothing but it has happened before with KD being the latest example.

 

There were also teams desperate to get anything for a star they wanted to trade and ended up getting fleeced like the Thunder with James Harden.

 

If we trade this off-season, it needs to be the right deal imo.

 

 

There's no reason to trade PG this summer...especially

did NOT get an all-NBA honor.

Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler beat him out \

 

The 'super max' deal rules are Top-15 in 2 out of 3 years, though...Paul is signed for next year and he has a player option for the next year. If he is all-NBA next year, he can still get the Super deal from us

He doesn't have to sign anew deal anywhere for 2 years, if he chooses.

 

,and the Pacers can still offer him more than any other team.

Our goal is to add players now..and any trade becomes a dead story

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

There's no reason to trade PG this summer...especially

did NOT get an all-NBA honor.

Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler beat him out \

 

The 'super max' deal rules are Top-15 in 2 out of 3 years, though...Paul is signed for next year and he has a player option for the next year. If he is all-NBA next year, he can still get the Super deal from us

He doesn't have to sign anew deal anywhere for 2 years, if he chooses.

 

,and the Pacers can still offer him more than any other team.

Our goal is to add players now..and any trade becomes a dead story

this guy 

[Bluefire4]

2 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

There's no reason to trade PG this summer...especially

did NOT get an all-NBA honor.

Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler beat him out \

 

The 'super max' deal rules are Top-15 in 2 out of 3 years, though...Paul is signed for next year and he has a player option for the next year. If he is all-NBA next year, he can still get the Super deal from us

He doesn't have to sign anew deal anywhere for 2 years, if he chooses.

 

,and the Pacers can still offer him more than any other team.

Our goal is to add players now..and any trade becomes a dead story

Pretty sure the point was that if he didn't get all-NBA it would be more incentive to trade him because he would get less money from us. I'm aware that he can still get the super max. I posted the tweet on here earlier.

 

Many players have left for less money... even players like KD who had said they loved the city they were in and hated super teams. Players only can take so much before they chase titles. I'm fine with keeping Paul but if/when he walks next year we'd have to accept the fact that we let him walk for nothing.

[Bluefire4]

Think it's kinda stupid but I'll post it anyway.

[Myles]

12 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

The Pacers would be so incredibly dumb if they just let PG walk for nothing. Thats the dumbest thing they could do, hopefully they can do a trade. You have to get something back for a player like him.

I can't believe they turned down Atlanta's offer of 4 first round picks.    They should have snatched that up quickly.   The Pacers would have been without George, but would have had 8 first round picks the next 4 years.   That would have been the opportunity to build something great.  

[BullsColtsFan1]

14 hours ago, dgambill said:

LA doesn't have their pick next year...its unprotected....so for LA its now....I think 18 and 19 draft picks are gone so they might as well start the rebuild now....plus if you land George you are much more likely to convince say Griffen to sign. I think they keep the pick....that's the issue with leverage. They will try to send us scraps but if we hold strong and make them think hey George is all nba next year he could re-sign with Pacers for 70 million more than us that's almost too much to pass up I'd think. Call their bluff. Then maybe they throw in Ingram, Randle and some throw ins maybe Clarkson or Nance. They can have Ball, PG, Russell, Griffen, Mozgoff as a start to the Magic era. It isn't the best we could have done but its best we might be able to get. If we land the 2nd pick then I look to move it and 18 to Sacremento for 5 and 10 pick. Ball stays in California??? Maybe that works. All I know is no matter what I don't think we are going to be happy. We don't have the assets to make our team better around Paul...and no matter what we get for him its not equal...so we just are going to have to suck it up. NBA already has colluded to get PG to LA...no point in resisting.

I forgot about their pick being unprotected, I knew they would have lost it this year if they fell outside of the top 3.  I agree with mostly everything you said.  I really don't think they'll trade the #2 pick.  I think they'll draft Ball and roll with what they got and see what happens next year unless they low ball the Pacers.  I think the Pacers could potentially get a better deal else where if a team is willing to take a chance.  I guess we'll see.  I am excited for the Finals but I am more excited about the draft. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

14 hours ago, Malakai432 said:

 

I agree it's kind of a futile situation but what if someone like the Celtics offer their first to use him for a year??

That's my point it's quite possible.  They might trade to convince him to stay or just rent him for a year to try to get over the hump.  The thing is, I don't think they'd trade the #1 pick as the gamble.  I could be wrong though.

[Myles]

Boy, the more I think about it, the more I feel sick that the Pacers didn't jump on Atlanta's offer. 

That was a franchise changing offer.  

I like PG, but when someone offers your four 1st round picks, you jump on it.   

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Boy, the more I think about it, the more I feel sick that the Pacers didn't jump on Atlanta's offer. 

That was a franchise changing offer.  

I like PG, but when someone offers your four 1st round picks, you jump on it.   

They are also gonna start to suck too could have been good picks 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Boy, the more I think about it, the more I feel sick that the Pacers didn't jump on Atlanta's offer. 

That was a franchise changing offer.  

I like PG, but when someone offers your four 1st round picks, you jump on it.   

The Lakers want him and PG is from Cali and has mentioned he would love to be a Laker so I still think we can rake the Lakers for their #2, Ingram and Randle which would be a fair deal for us. We would be giving up a SuperStar and IMO a Top 15 player in the league - they don't grow on trees. In return, we get possibly a future Star at #2 and Ingram has tons of potential that plays PG's position. Randle is a guy that will get you 10 Boards a night and score 13-15 points so he isn't chopped liver. We would have an extremely young team but a team with great potential with that scenario along with Turner.

[aaron11]

13 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

There's no reason to trade PG this summer...especially

did NOT get an all-NBA honor.

Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler beat him out \

 

The 'super max' deal rules are Top-15 in 2 out of 3 years, though...Paul is signed for next year and he has a player option for the next year. If he is all-NBA next year, he can still get the Super deal from us

He doesn't have to sign anew deal anywhere for 2 years, if he chooses.

 

,and the Pacers can still offer him more than any other team.

Our goal is to add players now..and any trade becomes a dead story

thats very optimistic of you, so fans wont be mad that you feel this way.

its also the riskiest approach we could take though.  if we are not good next year and he doesnt make all nba there wont be much incentive for him to stay.

 

 

 

 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Lakers want him and PG is from Cali and has mentioned he would love to be a Laker so I still think we can rake the Lakers for their #2, Ingram and Randle which would be a fair deal for us. We would be giving up a SuperStar and IMO a Top 15 player in the league - they don't grow on trees. In return, we get possibly a future Star at #2 and Ingram has tons of potential that plays PG's position. Randle is a guy that will get you 10 Boards a night and score 13-15 points so he isn't chopped liver. We would have an extremely young team but a team with great potential with that scenario along with Turner.

I think the Pacers have lost some leverage.    I don't think they can get the #2 pick and Randle and Ingram.   Maybe not even 2 of the 3.  

I would beg Atlanta to give us 3 1st rounders now.   

 

Passing up on 4 was a bad move.

[Colts1324]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

thats very optimistic of you, so fans wont be mad that you feel this way.

its also the riskiest approach we could take though.  if we are not good next year and he doesnt make all nba there wont be much incentive for him to stay.

 

 

 

 

I would be surprised if we did worse than we did this year. I expect turner to take a huge leap forward. I expect him to average 18-20 PPG, 9 rebounds per game. I would not be disappointed if we brought back teague or George hill for that matter. 

Gordan Hayward will be available and I believe we have a good chance at getting him if he leaves. The celtics, pacers, or Oklahoma City would be my guess. I expect us to win around 50 games if we don downgrade by losing teague with no replacement. 

[aaron11]

7 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

I would be surprised if we did worse than we did this year.

i hope you are right because i can definitely see us standing pat and not making a big trade.  we need to be better than last year, much better

 

i would bring teague back, unless we do make a trade and end up with one of the top guards in the draft.  some think lance should be the PG but i dont see it, hes a sixth man or maybe a starter at 2 if he can shoot a little better

 

we do need at least 20 a game from turner to beat good teams in the playoffs.  thats probably the least of our worries

[Myles]

8 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

I would be surprised if we did worse than we did this year. I expect turner to take a huge leap forward. I expect him to average 18-20 PPG, 9 rebounds per game. I would not be disappointed if we brought back teague or George hill for that matter. 

Gordan Hayward will be available and I believe we have a good chance at getting him if he leaves. The celtics, pacers, or Oklahoma City would be my guess. I expect us to win around 50 games if we don downgrade by losing teague with no replacement. 

It'd be nice to get Hayward.   He's got a tough choice:

Stay with Utah.   Not a bad team.   Familiarity.  

Go to Indy.    Hometown.  

Go to Boston.   Brad Stephens.   Championship contender.

OK City.   Championship contender.