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Grigson Rocks!


unitaswestand

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Oh absolutely. My comments are purely my own barely informed opinion based on 2-3 brief and superficial samples. I VERY much hope that I'm wrong. The fact that he may not like public speaking is certainly a consideration, and something that I can very much relate to. I also happen to hate macho posturing - but I'm sure that some on here will love it, thinking that it's relevant to a sport where physical domination is so important. The guy running a coal mine doesn't need to be particularly skilled with a pick axe - he's just administering a business - but to each his own.

The thing is, I'm also old enough (and experienced enough in management positions at small business's) to recognize the dynamic between Irsay and Grigson - particularly with a new person who has never had a particular job before. People are funny, and this is fascinating to watch actually. Grigson is throwing himself into this job 100% right now, hyper aware of the need to please the guy who just did him the biggest favor in his entire life - and gave him a mandate to "fix everything" and "restore the organization to greatness" in the process. The problem is, the organization has a recent history which is so far superior in every respect to the one that he came from, that it might be a little bit hard for him to figure out what it is exactly that he is suppossed to do. What's right and what's wrong? Can he even trust his own thoughts and opinions? The only thing that he can do is throw things at Irsay in the hopes that he'll agree. So who is actually in charge of football operations here? I'm thinking it's Irsay, and I don't like the idea very much.

None of that changes the fact that if he is a wizard in the draft room he will help the organization tremendously, but my confidence level compared to when Polian (or even Tobin) came in is negligible. We're walking a high wire without a net here. It will be exiting, but it could also end very badly.

You mentioned that he has a tough act to follow. Absolutely. No matter how anyone may have felt about Polian, he was one of the absolute best. Grigson would do well to have half the success Polian had.

But there's a lot of speculation and forecasting about things that are happening behind the scenes, may have happened, may happen soon, won't happen, should happen, can't happen, must happen... Chill out. Grigson just finished his 7th day. We don't start the Combine until his 7th week. We won't have an 80 man roster until his 7th month.

There's plenty for us to judge him on. He's saying all the right things. I get the fascination with body language, because they say 90% of what you say doesn't come out of your mouth. Grigson is likely overwhelmed and a bit taken aback by what he has to do in Indy. A flawed roster, a salary cap conundrum, a coaching change, the Manning situation, the draft, and so on. Tons of tough decisions to make at the office, not to mention the personal aspects of it all.

I hope things turn out well. Seems like the Caldwell decision could have been handled better, but as long as it leads to a better coaching staff next season, I'm good with it. Grigson does seem a bit nervous and even awkward, but he's new to all of this. He was never the center of attention, even as a player. Now he's fielding media questions and the spotlight is on him. Plus he's following a Hall of Famer. Lots on his plate. I don't think his raw media skills are too big of a concern right now.

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We can't obviously compare draft daftness

haha Well it would probably be fun to try.

Sorry, that just struck a funny bone. I'm probably getting a bit deft in my middle age. :)

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Why does rebuild have to not include Peyton Manning? I remember when Mike Shanahan because HC in Denver. He build a team around John Elway, even though he was getting older.

Here is what I expect to happen. Manning will be back and the offense will change. It HAS to change. Because Manning is the only person who can run it like that. I imagine they will put in more of a West Coast offense that Manning or Luck can run. And they will do very well.

For me, I don't know how much more clear it has to be when Jim Irsay says:

1) If Manning's health is okay, he will be with the Colts next year

2) Jim Irsay said Peyton's future is a family decision, not a football decision.

3) Archie Manning saying that Peyton has roots in Indy and wants to be back.

To me, it seems very clear that Manning WILL be back. We have changed coaches before and it didn't mean we were jettisoning our best players. So why now?

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Oh I a not saying you are wrong I was just answering your question why people don't want to admit it lol.

What do you want to see happen? Manning stay and #1 pick sit? You probably can't answer that until we know if Manning will be 100% the old Manning I guess.

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What do you want to see happen? Manning stay and #1 pick sit? You probably can't answer that until we know if Manning will be 100% the old Manning I guess.

Well I will just assume Manning is healthy because if he's not there isn't really a choice to be made here.

In a perfect world of course I want Peyton Manning to stay and have the top pick sit. Who doesn't want their cake and to be able to eat it too? With that said I also understand it is very rare to get your cake and eat it too in the NFL. I am willing to trust he direction the franchise goes in however, it will be extremely hard to say good bye to Peyton Manning if he can still play. That would be a hard one to stomach. I remember being upset when we traded Jim Harbaugh (not because I thought it was the wrong move just because I hated to see him leave). I got over it pretty quickly once I saw how good Peyton Manning was. One can only hope history would repeat it's self in that regard.

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Why does rebuild have to not include Peyton Manning? I remember when Mike Shanahan because HC in Denver. He build a team around John Elway, even though he was getting older.

Here is what I expect to happen. Manning will be back and the offense will change. It HAS to change. Because Manning is the only person who can run it like that. I imagine they will put in more of a West Coast offense that Manning or Luck can run. And they will do very well.

For me, I don't know how much more clear it has to be when Jim Irsay says:

1) If Manning's health is okay, he will be with the Colts next year

2) Jim Irsay said Peyton's future is a family decision, not a football decision.

3) Archie Manning saying that Peyton has roots in Indy and wants to be back.

To me, it seems very clear that Manning WILL be back. We have changed coaches before and it didn't mean we were jettisoning our best players. So why now?

I don't think it's clear at all that Manning will be back. He's not 100% right now so what are the chances he's 100% in 7 short weeks? The Colts have to make a 28 million dollar decision then and do you do that if a guy is anything less than 100%?

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Why does rebuild have to not include Peyton Manning? I remember when Mike Shanahan because HC in Denver. He build a team around John Elway, even though he was getting older.

Here is what I expect to happen. Manning will be back and the offense will change. It HAS to change. Because Manning is the only person who can run it like that. I imagine they will put in more of a West Coast offense that Manning or Luck can run. And they will do very well.

For me, I don't know how much more clear it has to be when Jim Irsay says:

1) If Manning's health is okay, he will be with the Colts next year

2) Jim Irsay said Peyton's future is a family decision, not a football decision.

3) Archie Manning saying that Peyton has roots in Indy and wants to be back.

To me, it seems very clear that Manning WILL be back. We have changed coaches before and it didn't mean we were jettisoning our best players. So why now?

I never believed for one second that Irsay wasn't committed to Peyton coming back until I say today's press conference. I think that the story may be changing.

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What EXACTLY about the presser makes you think that?

I saw Grigson go out of his way to dodge questons about Peyton Manning. With that said it's hard to read much into that.

I will say this terms like new era and this is exactly like 98 isn't exactly comforting words if you are a fan of Peyton Manning coming back.

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I saw Grigson go out of his way to dodge questons about Peyton Manning. With that said it's hard to read much into that.

I will say this terms like new era and this is exactly like 98 isn't exactly comforting words if you are a fan of Peyton Manning coming back.

I hear ya. Irsay is referring to 98 more and more lately.

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What EXACTLY about the presser makes you think that?

Considering that we are talking about a legendary player around which the franchise is built, whose absense was the defining theme of the past season, I found the following extremely telling:

Grigson:

1)Making it clear that he hadn't talked to Peyton yet, and that he had put no effort what-so-ever into doing so. He was asked the same question at his first press conference - I'm sure that he knows that it's important to the fans, at least symbolically. He made it pretty clear that it wasn't particularly important to him.

2) Making it clear that in dismissing Caldwell he hasn't given any thought to the assistant coaches. He all but scoffed at the idea (in a direct question) that trying to keep some continuity in the offense (for Peytons sake) was of any consequence. He laid out the process they are working on: first the GM was hired, then the HC will be hired, then the other coaches will be hired, and then when all those systems are in place, they will get around to looking at players. That doesn't sound to me like he is too concerned with Peyton - someone who many fans would argue is more important to the franchise than the GM is.

Irsay:

1) Minute 24 of the conference - responding to a direct question about whether this would be like 98 where the gm, coach AND QB were replaced, he said something like "well in 98 we brought back veterans if we felt they could help us" (vague doesn't quite describe that), then went out of his way to mention what "poor shape the roster was in from top to bottom, the team is rebuilding, and saying goodbye is painful but it has to be done".

2) Talking about the need to balance the salary cap between offense and defense. In other words, to reduce the amount spent on offense. Who might that be I wonder?

In short, he's not a numbskull - he knows what the fans want to hear - but he passed up 30 minutes worth of opportunities to simply say "if Peyton is healthy he will be back". I would say that he avoided the topic. Instead it was all about 1998 and rebuilding.

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I agree. We also don't need a "defensive-minded" Head Coach to play good defense. That's the Defensive Coordinator's job.

For one, we have no idea if Clyde is gone.

Two, we still have Manning, which means the offense will run the way he deems most efficient. That guy can turn any playbook into an improvisational nightmare for defenses.

Reminds me of another guy who wasn't impressive as a GM; a guy who was intimidating, had an eye for talent, and wanted to take a transitioning franchise into the future. His name, was Matt Millen.

I never said he was gone for sure, Infact, a few posts later I said I hope he does stay. I was saying that since the HC is gone, the new HC usually wants his own staff in place. Lets be real man. The new HC will not keep Clyde. Clyde has been OK. But, he is no offensive genius. That was Moore. If he stays, that makes me feel more confident about Manning. So, yes I hope he stays and everything works out. I do not want to bring in a rookie QB and let Peyton go. But, if it happens then it happens.

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Considering that we are talking about a legendary player around which the franchise is built, whose absense was the defining theme of the past season, I found the following extremely telling:

Grigson:

1)Making it clear that he hadn't talked to Peyton yet, and that he had put no effort what-so-ever into doing so. He was asked the same question at his first press conference - I'm sure that he knows that it's important to the fans, at least symbolically. He made it pretty clear that it wasn't particularly important to him.

2) Making it clear that in dismissing Caldwell he hasn't given any thought to the assistant coaches. He all but scoffed at the idea (in a direct question) that trying to keep some continuity in the offense (for Peytons sake) was of any consequence. He laid out the process they are working on: first the GM was hired, then the HC will be hired, then the other coaches will be hired, and then when all those systems are in place, they will get around to looking at players. That doesn't sound to me like he is too concerned with Peyton - someone who many fans would argue is more important to the franchise than the GM is.

Irsay:

1) Minute 24 of the conference - responding to a direct question about whether this would be like 98 where the gm, coach AND QB were replaced, he said something like "well in 98 we brought back veterans if we felt they could help us" (vague doesn't quite describe that), then went out of his way to mention what "poor shape the roster was in from top to bottom, the team is rebuilding, and saying goodbye is painful but it has to be done".

2) Talking about the need to balance the salary cap between offense and defense. In other words, to reduce the amount spent on offense. Who might that be I wonder?

In short, he's not a numbskull - he knows what the fans want to hear - but he passed up 30 minutes worth of opportunities to simply say "if Peyton is healthy he will be back". I would say that he avoided the topic. Instead it was all about 1998 and rebuilding.

Thanks for your response. I agree. Sure seems like that is the direction it's headed.

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You mentioned that he has a tough act to follow. Absolutely. No matter how anyone may have felt about Polian, he was one of the absolute best. Grigson would do well to have half the success Polian had.

But there's a lot of speculation and forecasting about things that are happening behind the scenes, may have happened, may happen soon, won't happen, should happen, can't happen, must happen... Chill out. Grigson just finished his 7th day. We don't start the Combine until his 7th week. We won't have an 80 man roster until his 7th month.

There's plenty for us to judge him on. He's saying all the right things. I get the fascination with body language, because they say 90% of what you say doesn't come out of your mouth. Grigson is likely overwhelmed and a bit taken aback by what he has to do in Indy. A flawed roster, a salary cap conundrum, a coaching change, the Manning situation, the draft, and so on. Tons of tough decisions to make at the office, not to mention the personal aspects of it all.

I hope things turn out well. Seems like the Caldwell decision could have been handled better, but as long as it leads to a better coaching staff next season, I'm good with it. Grigson does seem a bit nervous and even awkward, but he's new to all of this. He was never the center of attention, even as a player. Now he's fielding media questions and the spotlight is on him. Plus he's following a Hall of Famer. Lots on his plate. I don't think his raw media skills are too big of a concern right now.

I'm chilled, I'm chilled. Are you chilled? :) Good good.

Forget the media skills and public persona. I realize that he's in a difficult spot and I'm not trying to judge him, just take a reading of him. And even if I were to eventually take a personal dislike to the guy - it wouldn't have anything to do with my opinion of his performance. I'd be the last one to take that stand, after endlessly arguing with people that their dislike for Polian was irrelevant compared to the positive things that he brought to the franchise.

The crux of my comments had to do with the fact that a couple of messages are coming through loud and clear.

#1 Jim Irsay is probably exerting more direct control over football operations than he has since before Bill Tobin was hired. Based on past experience, I don't think that that is a good thing.

#2 Irsay and Griggson are now both painting a picture of a franchise in dissaray that requires major renovation. In other words, the problem has been identified, the fingers are pointing, and things are going to change.

I don't need to detail to anyone here what this team has accomplished. I am 100% convinced that if Peyton had been healthy they would be in the playoffs right now. If you think that Polian is getting old and Chris isn't good enough, no problem. If you think that there is a coach out there that can do a better job than Caldwell - it's your team, give it a whirl. But they are talking as if we're coming off a streak like the Rams are. It's confusing, sickening, and (considering #1 above, and the hints that Peyton may not be in their plans) I'm nervous about where this is headed.

In short, to me this is a squad that can continue to win as long as Peyton is himself. Draft well, and successfully replace 2-3 of the 30 year olds every year and they shouldn't miss a beat. If you can develope a replacement for Peyton behind the sceens at the same time, more power to you. But "rebuilding". What in the heck are they talking about? The only way that this team should be talking about rebuilding is if Peyton retires, at which point I'm fine with them releasing older players by the score and starting over. So either they "know" behind the scenes that Peyton isn't coming back, or Irsay has made a conscious decison to scrap everything regardless of his health. I thought that we'd be back on top next year - a couple of more runs for Manning, Wayne, Saturday, Freeney, Mathis, Brackett etal. Suddenly I'm thinking that they might all be gone, and Ryan Grigson is going to build a new team in his image. I'm sorry, but that's an awful lot to swallow. And it makes the fact that I'm not comfortable with what I've seen of his "image" so far more unsettling than it would be otherwise. And I hate most everything about the Eagles. Until we sign someone OTHER than Reid proteges to the coaching staff I'm going to be wary of that possibility as well.

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I'm chilled, I'm chilled. Are you chilled? :) Good good.

Forget the media skills and public persona. I realize that he's in a difficult spot and I'm not trying to judge him, just take a reading of him. And even if I were to eventually take a personal dislike to the guy - it wouldn't have anything to do with my opinion of his performance. I'd be the last one to take that stand, after endlessly arguing with people that their dislike for Polian was irrelevant compared to the positive things that he brought to the franchise.

The crux of my comments had to do with the fact that a couple of messages are coming through loud and clear.

#1 Jim Irsay is probably exerting more direct control over football operations than he has since before Bill Tobin was hired. Based on past experience, I don't think that that is a good thing.

#2 Irsay and Griggson are now both painting a picture of a franchise in dissaray that requires major renovation. In other words, the problem has been identified, the fingers are pointing, and things are going to change.

I don't need to detail to anyone here what this team has accomplished. I am 100% convinced that if Peyton had been healthy they would be in the playoffs right now. If you think that Polian is getting old and Chris isn't good enough, no problem. If you think that there is a coach out there that can do a better job than Caldwell - it's your team, give it a whirl. But they are talking as if we're coming off a streak like the Rams are. It's confusing, sickening, and (considering #1 above, and the hints that Peyton may not be in their plans) I'm nervous about where this is headed.

In short, to me this is a squad that can continue to win as long as Peyton is himself. Draft well, and successfully replace 2-3 of the 30 year olds every year and they shouldn't miss a beat. If you can develope a replacement for Peyton behind the sceens at the same time, more power to you. But "rebuilding". What in the heck are they talking about? The only way that this team should be talking about rebuilding is if Peyton retires, at which point I'm fine with them releasing older players by the score and starting over. So either they "know" behind the scenes that Peyton isn't coming back, or Irsay has made a conscious decison to scrap everything regardless of his health. I thought that we'd be back on top next year - a couple of more runs for Manning, Wayne, Saturday, Freeney, Mathis, Brackett etal. Suddenly I'm thinking that they might all be gone, and Ryan Grigson is going to build a new team in his image. I'm sorry, but that's an awful lot to swallow. And it makes the fact that I'm not comfortable with what I've seen of his "image" so far more unsettling than it would be otherwise. And I hate most everything about the Eagles. Until we sign someone OTHER than Reid proteges to the coaching staff I'm going to be wary of that possibility as well.

This is exactly how I feel about this rebuilding non sense. Great post! :lombardi:

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It seemed to matter a lot to many people when it came to the previous GM.

I see what you mean on that level. I thought that Bill Polian's problems really started when he began to flounder in the draft. His problems compounded when he had the radio meltdown and all the ensuing doubletalk.

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I'm chilled, I'm chilled. Are you chilled? :) Good good.

Forget the media skills and public persona. I realize that he's in a difficult spot and I'm not trying to judge him, just take a reading of him. And even if I were to eventually take a personal dislike to the guy - it wouldn't have anything to do with my opinion of his performance. I'd be the last one to take that stand, after endlessly arguing with people that their dislike for Polian was irrelevant compared to the positive things that he brought to the franchise.

The crux of my comments had to do with the fact that a couple of messages are coming through loud and clear.

#1 Jim Irsay is probably exerting more direct control over football operations than he has since before Bill Tobin was hired. Based on past experience, I don't think that that is a good thing.

#2 Irsay and Griggson are now both painting a picture of a franchise in dissaray that requires major renovation. In other words, the problem has been identified, the fingers are pointing, and things are going to change.

I don't need to detail to anyone here what this team has accomplished. I am 100% convinced that if Peyton had been healthy they would be in the playoffs right now. If you think that Polian is getting old and Chris isn't good enough, no problem. If you think that there is a coach out there that can do a better job than Caldwell - it's your team, give it a whirl. But they are talking as if we're coming off a streak like the Rams are. It's confusing, sickening, and (considering #1 above, and the hints that Peyton may not be in their plans) I'm nervous about where this is headed.

In short, to me this is a squad that can continue to win as long as Peyton is himself. Draft well, and successfully replace 2-3 of the 30 year olds every year and they shouldn't miss a beat. If you can develope a replacement for Peyton behind the sceens at the same time, more power to you. But "rebuilding". What in the heck are they talking about? The only way that this team should be talking about rebuilding is if Peyton retires, at which point I'm fine with them releasing older players by the score and starting over. So either they "know" behind the scenes that Peyton isn't coming back, or Irsay has made a conscious decison to scrap everything regardless of his health. I thought that we'd be back on top next year - a couple of more runs for Manning, Wayne, Saturday, Freeney, Mathis, Brackett etal. Suddenly I'm thinking that they might all be gone, and Ryan Grigson is going to build a new team in his image. I'm sorry, but that's an awful lot to swallow. And it makes the fact that I'm not comfortable with what I've seen of his "image" so far more unsettling than it would be otherwise. And I hate most everything about the Eagles. Until we sign someone OTHER than Reid proteges to the coaching staff I'm going to be wary of that possibility as well.

Thank you.

I too was hoping that our FO wouldn't start flippin out like our fanbase has and perhaps retain some perspective on where this franchise is at.

I'm getting nervous that our teams identity is being thrown into a thresher. There are very few personnel moves that I want to see occur from here on out. I'd like to see them gut much of our secondary and hopefully, with a little help from Spags, get that thing turned around.

We should focus on a Manning led Colts team winning championships for the next 2-3 years, all while prepping for the day when Luck gets the start and Wayne, Freeney, Mathis, Clark and Manning are gone.

Baby steps not huge leaps. We aren't that far removed from our championship form.

Great post, MAC!

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Thank you.

I too was hoping that our FO wouldn't start flippin out like our fanbase has and perhaps retain some perspective on where this franchise is at.

I'm getting nervous that our teams identity is being thrown into a thresher. There are very few personnel moves that I want to see occur from here on out. I'd like to see them gut much of our secondary and hopefully, with a little help from Spags, get that thing turned around.

We should focus on a Manning led Colts team winning championships for the next 2-3 years, all while prepping for the day when Luck gets the start and Wayne, Freeney, Mathis, Clark and Manning are gone.

Baby steps not huge leaps. We aren't that far removed from our championship form.

Great post, MAC!

Great post ruksak and I also agree with MAC 100%. I guess we have to just wait and see what happens. I don't like the sound of things right now. Maybe I'm just paranoird about that news conference. :sigh:

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Great post ruksak and I also agree with MAC 100%. I guess we have to just wait and see what happens. I don't like the sound of things right now. Maybe I'm just paranoird about that news conference. :sigh:

Strange times indeed. I'm hoping that they don't go too far with all that and that the attitude we're sensing the Colts FO emitting is simply to help season ticket sales by promising a no-tolerance approach to reliving the 2011 season. I would feel better if Irsay or Grigs would state unequivocally that Manning is our man and we're building around him.

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I believe FO is hinting towards the the worst case scenario. Which is that when the March deadline comes up Peyton still hasn't regained arm strength and team has to cut ties or he retires. I believe no matter what happens with Peyton in March they draft Luck and make changes in small steps so salary cap hit isn't a big issue.

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Strange times indeed. I'm hoping that they don't go too far with all that and that the attitude we're sensing the Colts FO emitting is simply to help season ticket sales by promising a no-tolerance approach to reliving the 2011 season. I would feel better if Irsay or Grigs would state unequivocally that Manning is our man and we're building around him.

I think Irsay was very clear that the team does not make moves in response to fan opinion.

He also said, that we won't know if this is a good move or not until 3 years from now.

Seems to me he takes his personal responsibility as steward of the franchise very seriously

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Strange times indeed. I'm hoping that they don't go too far with all that and that the attitude we're sensing the Colts FO emitting is simply to help season ticket sales by promising a no-tolerance approach to reliving the 2011 season. I would feel better if Irsay or Grigs would state unequivocally that Manning is our man and we're building around him.

I personally don't see that question being answered because I have a strange feeling no matter what Peytons health is they will release him and go with their new QB or maybe it won't even be Luck who knows now. I hope the new GM really knows what he is doing because these decisions could come back to bite him in the behind by a healthy Manning. :applause: If he in fact had anything to do the the so called dream team in Philly that didn't work out to well this year. I want to believe that he didn't have the final decision on all those moves that didn't work out but time will tell I guess. :hmm:

I guess the combine could change a lot of decisions on the draft also. Should be an interesting one to say the least.

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I believe FO is hinting towards the the worst case scenario. Which is that when the March deadline comes up Peyton still hasn't regained arm strength and team has to cut ties or he retires. I believe no matter what happens with Peyton in March they draft Luck and make changes in small steps so salary cap hit isn't a big issue.

I don't think they are hinting anything but absolutely Peyton's arm strength is one of the many huge unknowns they have to plan for

We tried to hold on to Bob Sanders for his greatness and that didn't work out

I don't envy either of these men

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I think Manning's medical state will be the best kept secret at Colts. I'm starting to be pessimistic about his return, for he won't be 100% in March. In that case he retires IMO.

Grigson seemd a litle bit confused with question concerning Manning, for he didn't want to release any information about him. Next hard task for him is Manning question, for it determines drafting too.

I'm still hoping he returns anyway!

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I personally don't see that question being answered because I have a strange feeling no matter what Peytons health is they will release him and go with their new QB or maybe it won't even be Luck who knows now. I hope the new GM really knows what he is doing because these decisions could come back to bite him in the behind by a healthy Manning. :applause: If he in fact had anything to do the the so called dream team in Philly that didn't work out to well this year. I want to believe that he didn't have the final decision on all those moves that didn't work out but time will tell I guess. :hmm:

I guess the combine could change a lot of decisions on the draft also. Should be an interesting one to say the least.

If I understood correctly, Grigs wasn't involved in FA decisions or any GM capacity. He was more of the talent scout type with a noted nose for sniffing out steals.

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I think Manning's medical state will be the best kept secret at Colts. I'm starting to be pessimistic about his return, for he won't be 100% in March. In that case he retires IMO.

Grigson seemd a litle bit confused with question concerning Manning, for he didn't want to release any information about him. Next hard task for him is Manning question, for it determines drafting too.

I'm still hoping he returns anyway!

No kidding about the secret of Peyton Manning. Don't the media call him? Why do we only ever hear from his dad?

I believe that grigson has not had a conversation with Peyton. He's not holding anything back in that regard.

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I don't think they are hinting anything but absolutely Peyton's arm strength is one of the many huge unknowns they have to plan for

We tried to hold on to Bob Sanders for his greatness and that didn't work out

I don't envy either of these men

Yes we did with Sanders but we held on to him way longer than 1 year but that is just my opinion on that matter. Your correct about the difficult decisions but I don't compare the Sanders situation to Peyton's because Sanders was great but I don't feel that he was better than Peyton and done what Peyton has done for this team at all.

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If I understood correctly, Grigs wasn't involved in FA decisions or any GM capacity. He was more of the talent scout type with a noted nose for sniffing out steals.

Well if that's correct makes me feel a little better because we all know how that turned out. :hide:

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I don't think they are hinting anything but absolutely Peyton's arm strength is one of the many huge unknowns they have to plan for

We tried to hold on to Bob Sanders for his greatness and that didn't work out

I don't envy either of these men

I agree, I am glad I'm not in their shoes. I just don't see them showing their hand until March.

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Yes we did with Sanders but we held on to him way longer than 1 year but that is just my opinion on that matter. Your correct about the difficult decisions but I don't compare the Sanders situation to Peyton's because Sanders was great but I don't feel that he was better than Peyton and done what Peyton has done for this team at all.

understood. Just saying we don't have a crystal ball.

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I agree, I am glad I'm not in their shoes. I just don't see them showing their hand until March.

They are smart in doing that because if I understand correctly the season ticket holders have to pay for their tickets in February. :hide: Don't show your hand too soon. :shh:

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They are smart in doing that because if I understand correctly the season ticket holders have to pay for their tickets in February. :hide: Don't show your hand too soon. :shh:

I really do not believe this is the thought process. March is when that bonus is due to peyton and will be the drop dead date for a decision. Huge implications for the salary cap and the draft. Would not make sense to make that decision until they've given peyton as much time as possible to get his arm up to snuff

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I really do not believe this is the thought process. March is when that bonus is due to peyton and will be the drop dead date for a decision. Huge implications for the salary cap and the draft. Would not make sense to make that decision until they've given peyton as much time as possible to get his arm up to snuff

I agree with all that you said but season ticket holders are a big revenue for the organization also. They were not sold out and a waiting list until we had the winning seasons with Peyton so I'm sure that if Peyton gets released and can still play somewhere else they will have a turn over because some are Peyton fans first and follow the colts because of him. I for one was a fan before Peyton and will be a colts fan after he is gone and hope if he can't play he will retire and be with the team in another compacity. JMO of course.

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I agree with all that you said but season ticket holders are a big revenue for the organization also. They were not sold out and a waiting list until we had the winning seasons with Peyton so I'm sure that if Peyton gets released and can still play somewhere else they will have a turn over because some are Peyton fans first and follow the colts because of him. I for one was a fan before Peyton and will be a colts fan after he is gone and hope if he can't play he will retire and be with the team in another compacity. JMO of course.

true about ticket sales and the wait list.

Season ticket holders, sponsors, fans everywhere are all important.

That's why I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions :)

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I'm chilled, I'm chilled. Are you chilled? :) Good good. Forget the media skills and public persona. I realize that he's in a difficult spot and I'm not trying to judge him, just take a reading of him. And even if I were to eventually take a personal dislike to the guy - it wouldn't have anything to do with my opinion of his performance. I'd be the last one to take that stand, after endlessly arguing with people that their dislike for Polian was irrelevant compared to the positive things that he brought to the franchise. The crux of my comments had to do with the fact that a couple of messages are coming through loud and clear. #1 Jim Irsay is probably exerting more direct control over football operations than he has since before Bill Tobin was hired. Based on past experience, I don't think that that is a good thing. #2 Irsay and Griggson are now both painting a picture of a franchise in dissaray that requires major renovation. In other words, the problem has been identified, the fingers are pointing, and things are going to change. I don't need to detail to anyone here what this team has accomplished. I am 100% convinced that if Peyton had been healthy they would be in the playoffs right now. If you think that Polian is getting old and Chris isn't good enough, no problem. If you think that there is a coach out there that can do a better job than Caldwell - it's your team, give it a whirl. But they are talking as if we're coming off a streak like the Rams are. It's confusing, sickening, and (considering #1 above, and the hints that Peyton may not be in their plans) I'm nervous about where this is headed. In short, to me this is a squad that can continue to win as long as Peyton is himself. Draft well, and successfully replace 2-3 of the 30 year olds every year and they shouldn't miss a beat. If you can develope a replacement for Peyton behind the sceens at the same time, more power to you. But "rebuilding". What in the heck are they talking about? The only way that this team should be talking about rebuilding is if Peyton retires, at which point I'm fine with them releasing older players by the score and starting over. So either they "know" behind the scenes that Peyton isn't coming back, or Irsay has made a conscious decison to scrap everything regardless of his health. I thought that we'd be back on top next year - a couple of more runs for Manning, Wayne, Saturday, Freeney, Mathis, Brackett etal. Suddenly I'm thinking that they might all be gone, and Ryan Grigson is going to build a new team in his image. I'm sorry, but that's an awful lot to swallow. And it makes the fact that I'm not comfortable with what I've seen of his "image" so far more unsettling than it would be otherwise. And I hate most everything about the Eagles. Until we sign someone OTHER than Reid proteges to the coaching staff I'm going to be wary of that possibility as well.

I have read all your posts and practically agree with everything you said, and im on the bandwaggon that Jimmy is taking more of a role and really making the decitions or soemthing like that.

but then again, I was sure jim caldwell was staying. I was sure because i tought jimmy was calling the shots and he was all about giving a chance to caldwell to prove himself with a valid team. then caldwell was fired, and i think that is 100 griggson.

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maybe grigs did not comment on peyton because his boss (IRSAY) said that was his call and his alone....would you go behind your bosses back and talk to peyton..or just stay away. he has alot to do right now and if the owner will take the peyton problem off your plate right now then great. he will deal with peyton when irsay says what the game plan will be.. imo i think this a good move on irsays part right now..

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I'm chilled, I'm chilled. Are you chilled? :) Good good.

We're all chilled. That's nice. ;)

Forget the media skills and public persona. I realize that he's in a difficult spot and I'm not trying to judge him, just take a reading of him. And even if I were to eventually take a personal dislike to the guy - it wouldn't have anything to do with my opinion of his performance. I'd be the last one to take that stand, after endlessly arguing with people that their dislike for Polian was irrelevant compared to the positive things that he brought to the franchise.

Yup. Some people... Sure, I think it was time for the Polians to go, but I'm grateful for what he did for the team. Never was into pushing him out the door, but I get why it was done.

The crux of my comments had to do with the fact that a couple of messages are coming through loud and clear.

#1 Jim Irsay is probably exerting more direct control over football operations than he has since before Bill Tobin was hired. Based on past experience, I don't think that that is a good thing.

#2 Irsay and Griggson are now both painting a picture of a franchise in dissaray that requires major renovation. In other words, the problem has been identified, the fingers are pointing, and things are going to change.

I don't necessarily agree with #1. Irsay is working on some foundational things right now that he hasn't had to work on in 14 years. A new GM, making decisions about the coaches. By the way, the coaching thing is something Irsay has always been front and center on. It's worth noting that, in Polian's entire time here, he NEVER picked the coach. Despite his need to control everything going on with the team, Irsay never allowed him to say "I want this guy as the coach." So what Irsay is involved in now is the stuff that he's always been involved in, and things that he should be involved in as the owner. I don't want him making decisions in the draft room, I don't want him deciding what kind of defense we're going to run, but these foundational issues he deserves as much a say as anyone does.

As to #2, 2011 exposed the Colts as a one-man show. Without Manning, we went 2-14. You say (below) that you think Manning takes this same team to the playoffs, right? So one man is the difference between a playoff contender and the worst team in the NFL?

And this goes beyond the team on the field. Caldwell and his staff couldn't direct this team to a win for the first three months of the season. I think we had a lot of good players, and a better coach would have at least made the team more competitive. Maybe we only win two games anyways, but there's no excuse for getting blown out by 55 points on national TV. There's even less of an excuse for running the same ridiculous defense for three months despite the fact that you're the league's worst defense overall.

Manning covered up a lot of flaws, and the curtain came back on all of them this season. It only makes sense that, after our coaching was exposed as fraudulent and our roster issues were highlighted, that ownership and management would do something about it. More on this...

I don't need to detail to anyone here what this team has accomplished. I am 100% convinced that if Peyton had been healthy they would be in the playoffs right now. If you think that Polian is getting old and Chris isn't good enough, no problem. If you think that there is a coach out there that can do a better job than Caldwell - it's your team, give it a whirl. But they are talking as if we're coming off a streak like the Rams are. It's confusing, sickening, and (considering #1 above, and the hints that Peyton may not be in their plans) I'm nervous about where this is headed.

They're talking right now. Talking. And I think the talk is appropriate when you're dealing with a team that only won two games last season.

If you're right that Peyton Manning is the difference between 10-6 and 2-14, then it makes sense to get rid of coach who was just along for the ride, and it makes sense to get rid of the management team that built a roster that couldn't win more than two games without Manning.

I think it's a lot more complicated that that, though. I think the team was built to optimize Manning's ability, and the decision was made a long time a go to ride that as long as possible. Without Manning, it's like driving a car with a bad clutch and a flat tire. Just minor problems that can easily be fixed, but if you don't fix them, you're not going anywhere. Which makes it even more clear that the management and coaches didn't do their jobs very well going into 2011, and over the course of the season. Get the clutch fixed. Change the flat tire. Polian and Caldwell didn't do enough to fix the problems. So they're gone.

In short, to me this is a squad that can continue to win as long as Peyton is himself. Draft well, and successfully replace 2-3 of the 30 year olds every year and they shouldn't miss a beat. If you can develope a replacement for Peyton behind the sceens at the same time, more power to you. But "rebuilding". What in the heck are they talking about? The only way that this team should be talking about rebuilding is if Peyton retires, at which point I'm fine with them releasing older players by the score and starting over. So either they "know" behind the scenes that Peyton isn't coming back, or Irsay has made a conscious decison to scrap everything regardless of his health. I thought that we'd be back on top next year - a couple of more runs for Manning, Wayne, Saturday, Freeney, Mathis, Brackett etal. Suddenly I'm thinking that they might all be gone, and Ryan Grigson is going to build a new team in his image. I'm sorry, but that's an awful lot to swallow. And it makes the fact that I'm not comfortable with what I've seen of his "image" so far more unsettling than it would be otherwise. And I hate most everything about the Eagles. Until we sign someone OTHER than Reid proteges to the coaching staff I'm going to be wary of that possibility as well.

We have salary cap issues. We can't resign Wayne, Mathis, or Garcon with the way we stand right now. Our best tight end hasn't played a full season in two years. Freeney has a $19 million cap hit this season. Saturday may be retiring. There's still questions about Manning. There's a lot of work to do to have a successful season.

But I don't think Irsay and Grigson are talking about blowing anything up. I think they're talking about making some changes that may seem drastic, but that will be good for the team. I don't know how wise it is to read into anything they're saying about the way they're approaching the offseason and trying to apply it to Manning. Independent of the Manning decision, there were issues with this team, and they need to be addressed. Whether Manning is back or not, we can do better than Jim Caldwell. We can draft better. We can hit free agency. We can make some cap decisions. And so on.

I'm content to wait for March to see what they do with Manning. We'll have a LOT more information then, and you'll probably see Irsay make some more relevant comments about the Manning decision then.

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