All signs point to.....

[Indeee]

This not working out so well... Where pass rushers are concerned

 

When looking at our roster, it's clear we are in DESPERATE need of Pass rush. Problem is that other teams are going to find a way of locking up their pass rushers before FA starts. I'm thinking the Colts will have to restructure Cole and Mathis. Cole needs to be released IMO, however I'm thinking the Colts won't have a choice but to give him at least another year. If Vernon hits the Market the Colts have to go hard for this guy, but with a few teams having huge amounts of cash we would most likely get outbid. We could draft an edge rusher first overall, but what's that really going to solve?

 

We would have Mathis and a rookie if we cut Cole. Then we would have to hope the Colts draft a couple more in later rounds that pan out and I'm not sold they would get it right.

 

Seems bleak as our roster has virtually no pass rushers and too many other holes to fill

 

 

             

[LockeDown]

Unfortunately, I agree.  However, it looks rosey for other positions we need.  We can legitimately nail down our Oline and Dline this offseason.

[ponyboy]

Maybe they'll take a flyer on a lower level FA like Shea McClellin.  He needs an opportunity as a 3-4 OLB.

[chad72]

8 minutes ago, ponyboy said:

Maybe they'll take a flyer on a lower level FA like Shea McClellin.  He needs an opportunity as a 3-4 OLB.

 

Last year, when we went with lighter DL, we wondered what the heck we were doing drafting Anderson and Parry. Then we found out. With a new DC, and disruption and fleet of foot becoming more important, I would not be shocked if we got someone like Sua Cravens in round 2. I don't think it is as grim as it is made to sound because we don't know how good our new DC can be with his LBs, using them like safeties etc.

[Boiler_Colt]

Well, Vernon and Irvin will be available but you'll have to pay a pretty penny for them. Do you pay for another old guy in Tamba Hali? Do you kick the tires on a Shea McClellan or try to trade for Dion Jordan? I personally can't see any of those scenarios so like you said, I think we're stuck with Mathis, Walden and rookies unfortunately. 

[BOTT]

Teams rarely let good pass rushers go.  They have to old or injury prone.  Expecting to land one was being overly optimistic.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Indeee said:

This not working out so well... Where pass rushers are concerned

 

When looking at our roster, it's clear we are in DESPERATE need of Pass rush. Problem is that other teams are going to find a way of locking up their pass rushers before FA starts. I'm thinking the Colts will have to restructure Cole and Mathis. Cole needs to be released IMO, however I'm thinking the Colts won't have a choice but to give him at least another year. If Vernon hits the Market the Colts have to go hard for this guy, but with a few teams having huge amounts of cash we would most likely get outbid. We could draft an edge rusher first overall, but what's that really going to solve?

 

We would have Mathis and a rookie if we cut Cole. Then we would have to hope the Colts draft a couple more in later rounds that pan out and I'm not sold they would get it right.

 

Seems bleak as our roster has virtually no pass rushers and too many other holes to fill

 

 

             

 

Mathis and a rookie if we cut Cole?

 

We also have the other starting OLB.....    His name is Erik Walden.

 

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Sign Irvin.

[Carlos Danger]

I like the idea of signing Irvin, but not Hali or any other old pass rusher, nor do I want a bargain underachiever type...

 

I'd rather roll with a rookie along with Mathis and Walden than overspend on an unproductive FA. If the right value doesn't exist in the market (and it likely won't), there are other ways to improve pass rush, like: draft a promising rookie at OLB, add a capable #2 corner, and getting a playmaker on the D-Line to go with what we have already..

[Gavin]

Hmm you know we have the 18th pick in the draft right?. We can certainly get a young good pass rusher there

[Indeee]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Mathis and a rookie if we cut Cole?

 

We also have the other starting OLB.....    His name is Erik Walden.

 

 

Walden is a guy I actually like a lot but he's more of an edge setter than a true pass rusher

[Indeee]

1 hour ago, Gavin said:

Hmm you know we have the 18th pick in the draft right?. We can certainly get a young good pass rusher there

Yes I agree, but 1 is not enough. You have to have a few quality for rotational/situational purposes

 

I'm guessing we may be able to offset the OLB's with D-Line guys that could push the pocket

[COLTS449]

LOL No way Trent Cole's back. Why wouldn't we just sign Tamba Hali? That's a move that wouldn't surprise me at all. But I think our pick at 18 will definitely be a pass rusher. It'll be hopefully Spence, but Floyd, Ogbah, or Lawson one will be there. I could see any of those 4 being our guy.

[Traines]

45 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

LOL No way Trent Cole's back. Why wouldn't we just sign Tamba Hali?

Might as well keep Trent Cole if we're just going to sign another 32 year-old pass rusher...Cole is going to be cheaper to keep and only slightly less productive according to last year's stats.  I'm not in favor of keeping Cole, but I'm certainly not in favor of getting rid of him and signing a more expensive, just as old, and slightly more productive guy.

[Indy Fan]

1 hour ago, COLTS449 said:

LOL No way Trent Cole's back. Why wouldn't we just sign Tamba Hali? That's a move that wouldn't surprise me at all. But I think our pick at 18 will definitely be a pass rusher. It'll be hopefully Spence, but Floyd, Ogbah, or Lawson one will be there. I could see any of those 4 being our guy.

I hope we don't reach on a pass rushers and just do BPA of a position of need. Not saying all four of those guys are reaches but I only really like Lawson from the group. 

[COLTS449]

1 hour ago, Traines said:

Might as well keep Trent Cole if we're just going to sign another 32 year-old pass rusher...Cole is going to be cheaper to keep and only slightly less productive according to last year's stats.  I'm not in favor of keeping Cole, but I'm certainly not in favor of getting rid of him and signing a more expensive, just as old, and slightly more productive guy.

 

I know Hali is older too. But there isn't many options out there. And Hali is 10x's better than Cole. Hali is still very productive. And I'm pretty sure he graded out in the top 10 for EDGE rushers this year according to PFF. He'd be alright on a 2 year deal. We'd still need to draft a OLB though.

[Nesjan3]

looks like the Dolphins are transition tagging Vernon, which means we could make an offer but the Phins could then match it if they like, i still feel like if Noah Spence is there at 18 we take a chance on him giving the state of our pass rush, i feel like i am beating a dead horse saying that but people seem to have falling off that bandwagon, im still riding it!

[Traines]

37 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

I know Hali is older too. But there isn't many options out there. And Hali is 10x's better than Cole. Hali is still very productive. And I'm pretty sure he graded out in the top 10 for EDGE rushers this year according to PFF. He'd be alright on a 2 year deal. We'd still need to draft a OLB though.

They are 11 month apart in age, Cole has been in the league one more year.  I'm putting the links to their stats below because I think your idea of how much better Hali is, is not accurate.  You're replacing aging and declining, with aging and slightly less declining IMO...while spending more money at the position.

 

Here is Hali's stats from last year:  http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9606/tamba-hali

Here is Cole's stats from last year: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8560/trent-cole

 

I know you're not saying we have to get Hali, I am just throwing in my 2 cents.  I completely agree that we need upgrades at this position, but I do not feel like we should sacrifice getting better at other positions just to fill a spot...a spot in which we currently have 2 starters in place (Walden and Mathis).  I think you take what you can get in the draft without reaching, and I think if we miss out in the 1st, there will be guys in 2/3/4 that could help us next season.

 

Also, I realize there are a lack of options, but getting another old man, and paying him more than what he is worth doesn't seem to be the solution.  I'm not sure what that solution is (maybe patience?), but I think people are under the impression that the only place pass rush happens is from the EDGE position and that is not correct.  I do not want to overpay for anyone that is available in FA this year at that position, and depending on how the draft falls we may not land one early (without reaching).  This is fine with me as long as we're grabbing guys who can make this team better, which I think we can where we are picking.  I feel like there are guys in the draft (especially available at 18) that could instantly improve our pass rush from the DL, as well as a couple of guys who could push for the CB2 position immediately.  Strengthening our DL and Secondary would help just as much as overpaying for whoever is available in FA, or reaching for someone in the draft (depending on how the draft falls) IMO.

[krunk]

I wonder would we kick the tires on Quinton Coples?  That would be a cheap pick up, he already knows the scheme and he's only 25 years old.  At least the team wouldn't be getting older because of it and you got to be plain out sorry not to be able to get more than 3 sacks like Trent Cole.  He's got nice size and length.  Maybe he can have a renaissance in Indy?

[COLTS449]

1 hour ago, Traines said:

They are 11 month apart in age, Cole has been in the league one more year.  I'm putting the links to their stats below because I think your idea of how much better Hali is, is not accurate.  You're replacing aging and declining, with aging and slightly less declining IMO...while spending more money at the position.

 

Here is Hali's stats from last year:  http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9606/tamba-hali

Here is Cole's stats from last year: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8560/trent-cole

 

I know you're not saying we have to get Hali, I am just throwing in my 2 cents.  I completely agree that we need upgrades at this position, but I do not feel like we should sacrifice getting better at other positions just to fill a spot...a spot in which we currently have 2 starters in place (Walden and Mathis).  I think you take what you can get in the draft without reaching, and I think if we miss out in the 1st, there will be guys in 2/3/4 that could help us next season.

 

Also, I realize there are a lack of options, but getting another old man, and paying him more than what he is worth doesn't seem to be the solution.  I'm not sure what that solution is (maybe patience?), but I think people are under the impression that the only place pass rush happens is from the EDGE position and that is not correct.  I do not want to overpay for anyone that is available in FA this year at that position, and depending on how the draft falls we may not land one early (without reaching).  This is fine with me as long as we're grabbing guys who can make this team better, which I think we can where we are picking.  I feel like there are guys in the draft (especially available at 18) that could instantly improve our pass rush from the DL, as well as a couple of guys who could push for the CB2 position immediately.  Strengthening our DL and Secondary would help just as much as overpaying for whoever is available in FA, or reaching for someone in the draft (depending on how the draft falls) IMO.

 

I get your point. But every guy in their 30's isn't terrible. Here's PFF's top ranked pass rushers for this year. Don't get me wrong. If we did sign Hali we'd still need to draft a pass rusher at 18. But I think Hali could be a really good signing for a year or 2. Signing Hali and drafting Floyd, Spence, Lawson or Ogbah would do the trick IMO. This wasn't the final list, but I think it was from around week 10 or 11. It still shows that Hali is still very productive though.

 

Rank	Name	Team	Pass rush snaps	Total pressures	Pass rush productivity (PRP)
1.	Pernell McPhee	CHI	205	45	17.1
2.	Von Miller	DEN	239	49	15.9
3.	Justin Houston	KC	269	51	15
4.	Michael Bennett	SEA	263	46	13.9
5.	Cliff Avril	SEA	256	45	13.7
6.	James Harrison	PIT	157	27	13.2
7.	Elvis Dumervil	BAL	245	41	13.1
8.	Aaron Lynch	SF	230	38	13
9.	Ezekiel Ansah	DET	224	36	12.6
10.	Tamba Hali	KC	272	44	12.5

[COLTS449]

Here's a few guys I think we may look into signing. I'm pretty sure we'll both sign a EDGE rusher and draft one at 18 too. We'll only have Mathis, Walden, and Werner coming back. Mathis may have another great year or 2 left, but he's getting older and we cant count on it. Walden is a good edge setting SAM OLB but he's not a guy who's going to get after the QB. And then Werner, well Werner's a bust. Hopefully he pulls a Paul Kruger, but I'm not counting on it. We'll bring in at least 2 OLB's. We could even draft 2. But anyways. Here's a few guys I wouldn't mind. But even if we do sign one of these guys. We still have to use our 1st on one of Spence, Floyd, Ogbah, or Lawson. Its that bad. And we have to fix it if we want to be a true SB contender this season.

 

Jason Pierre Paul - I think he would be a good signing. He graded out well in pass rush in the few games he played, and I always thought he would be killer as a stand up 34 OLB.

 

Greg Hardy - I know, I know. But the fact is Hardy is one of the best EDGE rushers in the NFL and we desperately need one. A incentive laden deal would be good. I do think he would be fine as a 34 stand up OLB too by the way. If we signed him he could change our defense single handedly.

 

Junior Galette - Another knucklehead so to speak. But again. He's a productive pass rusher and again. That's what we need.....BAD. Galette had 12 sacks then 10 sacks his last 2 years in NOLA. Then was injured this season. When healthy he's a really good EDGE rusher.

 

Tamba Hali - He's getting older, but was still productive this season. Would be a good signing for a couple years IMO.

 

Bruce Irvin - He was stuck playing OLB in Seattle's 43 scheme because their so stacked with stud EDGE rushers. So he wasn't rushing the QB that much. But he still got 5.5 sacks. And in his rookie year playing DE he had 8 sacks. I think he can be a 10 sack a year guy in our 34.

 

Chris Long - If the price was right then it'd be worth the gamble. He was really good for a few years, but has had injury issues. If he could be healthy for 16 games I think he may be able to be productive for us next season and put up good numbers.

 

Nick Perry - He would be one of my last picks. But he is young and still has the potential to break out. Maybe a change of scenery and more snaps could turn him into a different player.

 

 

 

[jchandler7]

What about Mario Edwards if we could get im on a 1 year prove it deal or a 2 yor 3 year deal that we can opt out of fairly cheap in year 2 or 3 if he doesn't pan out?

[jchandler7]

Just now, jchandler7 said:

What about Mario Williams if we could get im on a 1 year prove it deal or a 2 yor 3 year deal that we can opt out of fairly cheap in year 2 or 3 if he doesn't pan out?

 

[jchandler7]

Sorry I meant Mario Williams not Edwads haha. I don't know why i typed that.

[Defjamz26]

Vernon is tagged. I'm still in the process of assigning values for certain guys based on round and factoring in BPA, but right now the options I'm looking at have the Colts taking an edge rusher in the 2nd. It's highly unlikely they take one at 18.

 

Ill probably have a mock draft tommorow that explains this. I also don't see us signing Irvin either.

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, jchandler7 said:

 

Think they have to at least think about it.  Desperate times....

[Jason_]

18 hours ago, jchandler7 said:

What about Mario Edwards if we could get im on a 1 year prove it deal or a 2 yor 3 year deal that we can opt out of fairly cheap in year 2 or 3 if he doesn't pan out?

 

Not necessarily a bad idea depending on price, but one question...why would Mario Williams be inclined to sign a 1 year "prove it" deal?  What does he have to prove?