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Flawed Replay Rule

dw49

By dw49
in Colts Football

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dw49 Team Captain

dw49

Posted
Posted

Not that the Colts outplayed the Pats last night .. they didn't. But that replay rule that kept the onside kick in NE possession defies common sense.

 

1) That "clear recovery " rule is fine on a turnover and I can understand that. This was not a turnover but instead a free ball.

 

2) That said , the official that said NE ball clearly and no doubt based that on his 100% error in think that first NE player recovered the ball. The replay clearly 100% no doubt shows the ball was never controlled and squirted out to his right. The we see the Ind. player in the process of recovering the ball. This is clear and not even questionable.

 

3) Now lets see... If player A didn't recover the ball and the ref award it to his team that should count for zero. If player B is seeing recovering the ball and there is no subsequent action or evidence of further possession changes and player B clearly has total possession of the ball when they unpile ... what am I missing ? All the official has to say or admit is he made a mistake in thinking the NE player recovered the ball.

 

Very flawed if this indeed is the rule covering that play. 

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colts4ever4 Walk On

colts4ever4

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Posted

Not that the Colts outplayed the Pats last night .. they didn't. But that replay rule that kept the onside kick in NE possession defies common sense.

 

1) That "clear recovery " rule is fine on a turnover and I can understand that. This was not a turnover but instead a free ball.

 

2) That said , the official that said NE ball clearly and no doubt based that on his 100% error in think that first NE player recovered the ball. The replay clearly 100% no doubt shows the ball was never controlled and squirted out to his right. The we see the Ind. player in the process of recovering the ball. This is clear and not even questionable.

 

3) Now lets see... If player A didn't recover the ball and the ref award it to his team that should count for zero. If player B is seeing recovering the ball and there is no subsequent action or evidence of further possession changes and player B clearly has total possession of the ball when they unpile ... what am I missing ? All the official has to say or admit is he made a mistake in thinking the NE player recovered the ball.

 

Very flawed if this indeed is the rule covering that play. 

the phantom patriot recovered the ball and thats how they won smh

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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$$$- they'd have to keep them employed full time with a good salary.

I doubt it would be much more salary than the current refs get. Hard to believe money would be an issue, especially for the NFL. I read that the average NFL referee makes over $170,000 per year and that is expected to grow to over $200,000 per year by 2019. Not bad for part time work, I have to believe they can get competent full time refs for about the same. Then they can train and concentrate on being a better ref.

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Ryan Pelley Walk On

Ryan Pelley

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The "no clear evidence" was such a lousy bailout in this scenario.

In the replay, the only player shown maintaining the ball was Moncrief. You know, the same guy who came up with the ball out of the pile?

Thankfully it didn't hurt too bad in the sense that we recovered and still lead at half. But still, that's a possible 14 point swing that plays into the final score. You never know.

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Two_pound Active Roster

Two_pound

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Doesn't anyone ever get tired of the same old crap of blatantly bad calls going against the Colts when playing krap and rooney and the other small handfull of clowns who get the credit for running the league? Seriously, I've been a Colt fan for over 45 years and I can't recall 5 times we have gotten any breaks in games against the "brilliant, fearless, most revered leaders of the nfl". Really, most games against those teams turn into a farce and last night was no exception. Hey nfl, get rid of the pathetic officiating!!!!

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southwest1 Walk On

southwest1

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My biggest complaint was how quick the ref signaled Patriot ball, usually they at least dig through the pile a little big before signaling.  In this case the ref ran up, looked at the pile of bodies and signaled.

Exactly, there's no way any zebra knew who had possession until you started peeling away bodies. I don't mind losing the ball as much as I do claiming one side has it before we even see the darn ball ODR. 

 

That action just screams laziness to me. I won't call it fraud, but it's like declaring a winner before any NASCAR driver crosses the finish line. What's also strange is that calls seem to go in favor of the home stadium being played in not automatic SB defending champions alone. 

 

It didn't really matter anyway since games are usually decided by 4-5 crucial plays as opposed to just one. 

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southwest1 Walk On

southwest1

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$$$- they'd have to keep them employed full time with a good salary.

The Commissioner made $44,000,000 in 2012 & the owners are too broke to pay refs full time.  haha How will NFL scrape by on bread & water right? What a darn farce. 

 

I'm not attacking you personally JJ. I'm just highlighting bureaucratic hypocrisy among millionaires & billionaires that's all. 

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dgambill Practice Squad

dgambill

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Thats why you never run an onside kick towards the opponents side of the field. I fully believe their bench influenced the officials on that play. Their coaches are right in their ear...the sideline officials have been working with their coaches and hearing stuff all night...then also their bench and everyone else is signaling they have the ball.....can't tell me the officials aren't influenced. It was a bad gaff by the officials....almost as bad as the punt call by us...but it was the perfect time to try it....could have changed the ball game completely to go up two scores.

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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I think the ref did see a clear recovery by NE even if the replay did not show it. Once the ref ruled it was NE's ball than it was up to replay to prove he was wrong and the replay never showed that. Had the ref ruled Colts ball then I think his call stands as well as again the replay was inconclusive. Does not mean that the Pats did not in fact recover it clean and then have it pulled away after.

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jskinnz Team Captain

jskinnz

Posted
Posted

Doesn't anyone ever get tired of the same old crap of blatantly bad calls going against the Colts when playing krap and rooney and the other small handfull of clowns who get the credit for running the league? Seriously, I've been a Colt fan for over 45 years and I can't recall 5 times we have gotten any breaks in games against the "brilliant, fearless, most revered leaders of the nfl". Really, most games against those teams turn into a farce and last night was no exception. Hey nfl, get rid of the pathetic officiating!!!!

 

Good God...

 

Just nonsense.  The Colts have had their fair share of calls go their way.

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dw49 Team Captain

dw49

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I think the ref did see a clear recovery by NE even if the replay did not show it. Once the ref ruled it was NE's ball than it was up to replay to prove he was wrong and the replay never showed that. Had the ref ruled Colts ball then I think his call stands as well as again the replay was inconclusive. Does not mean that the Pats did not in fact recover it clean and then have it pulled away after.

 

 

Lord ,lord , lord. The official thought the first NE player to jump on the ball clearly recovered it. The replay showed the ball immediately squirted out to the right. That no doubt is what the official saw to rule NE ball. The replay proved 100% he made a mistake. It was not a clear recovery . We see the guy that came out of the pile with the ball start to recover it but replay doesn't show what any * could figure out happened. There is no doubt in the world that the ref would say he made a mistake ruling a NE recovery after watching the replay. So while you are correct with most of what you said above.. that is the rule.. albeit a very stupid one .. you ruin it by saying the replay didn't rule out a clean recovery and have it pulled away. There is no way in hell a person can intelligently say that after watching the replay.

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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Lord ,lord , lord. The official thought the first NE player to jump on the ball clearly recovered it. The replay showed the ball immediately squirted out to the right. That no doubt is what the official saw to rule NE ball. The replay proved 100% he made a mistake. It was not a clear recovery . We see the guy that came out of the pile with the ball start to recover it but replay doesn't show what any * could figure out happened. There is no doubt in the world that the ref would say he made a mistake ruling a NE recovery after watching the replay. So while you are correct with most of what you said above.. that is the rule.. albeit a very stupid one .. you ruin it by saying the replay didn't rule out a clean recovery and have it pulled away. There is no way in hell a person can intelligently say that after watching the replay.

The replay only shows one or two angles. It would have taken more than that for them to overrule the call. It would have to have shown a Colt player on top of the ball and then emerging from the pile with it to over turn it. That is the way the review works. I do think the ref made a quick call which is unusual on a play like that as usually they wait for the pile to clear before calling possession but he felt the Pats had it and were down by contact. The review was not conclusive as the ball was under a Pats player and then the pile on. It may have been after that that the ref saw the recovery by the Pats. That is my guess anyways.

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dw49 Team Captain

dw49

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The replay only shows one or two angles. It would have taken more than that for them to overrule the call. It would have to have shown a Colt player on top of the ball and then emerging from the pile with it to over turn it. That is the way the review works. I do think the ref made a quick call which is unusual on a play like that as usually they wait for the pile to clear before calling possession but he felt the Pats had it and were down by contact. The review was not conclusive as the ball was under a Pats player and then the pile on. It may have been after that that the ref saw the recovery by the Pats. That is my guess anyways.

 

 

By the rules , they can't reverse it. My point is that the replay showed the ref made the wrong call to begin with. That could be confirmed by simply asking him. That said , now you use what you had to determine whose possession. That would be three things.

 

1) The refs view of what happened on the play considering the Pat player DID NOT gain possession.

2) What player came out of the pile with the ball. 

3) Use what they have on replay and add it to the above.

 

My point is the rule of the Colts had to show that they 100% recovered that ball is ridiculous in a situation like this. If it were a situation where it involved a turnover , I could see that rule being used. This was a free ball that the ref errantly awarded the ball to NE. If the replay 100% shows the player that ref thought recovered the ball didn't do so , then use what you have to determine who's ball it is. I'm sure everyone that watched that would bet $100 to $20 that it was Montcrief. So this begs the question of why you would want to say this needs the "burden of proof" that they ask for. It's not like something ruled a catch and you have to prove it wasn't. The evidence is there that the Pat player didn't cleanly recover the ball.. 100% there. So why would you say NE ball ? 

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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By the rules , they can't reverse it. My point is that the replay showed the ref made the wrong call to begin with. That could be confirmed by simply asking him. That said , now you use what you had to determine whose possession. That would be three things.

 

1) The refs view of what happened on the play considering the Pat player DID NOT gain possession.

2) What player came out of the pile with the ball. 

3) Use what they have on replay and add it to the above.

 

My point is the rule of the Colts had to show that they 100% recovered that ball is ridiculous in a situation like this. If it were a situation where it involved a turnover , I could see that rule being used. This was a free ball that the ref errantly awarded the ball to NE. If the replay 100% shows the player that ref thought recovered the ball didn't do so , then use what you have to determine who's ball it is. I'm sure everyone that watched that would bet $100 to $20 that it was Montcrief. So this begs the question of why you would want to say this needs the "burden of proof" that they ask for. It's not like something ruled a catch and you have to prove it wasn't. The evidence is there that the Pat player didn't cleanly recover the ball.. 100% there. So why would you say NE ball ? 

I don't think it was close to 100 percent that the Pats did not recover it. What we saw was the Pats player on top of it. After that the pile jumped on him. He could have gained possession in that pile and the ref saw him with possession and then called Pats ball. That is what I was saying about the replay. If it showed a Colts player on top of it and then the pile then I can see them reversing it but it showed the Pats player on top and then the pile. So there was no way it would get reversed.

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dw49 Team Captain

dw49

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I don't think it was close to 100 percent that the Pats did not recover it. What we saw was the Pats player on top of it. After that the pile jumped on him. He could have gained possession in that pile and the ref saw him with possession and then called Pats ball. That is what I was saying about the replay. If it showed a Colts player on top of it and then the pile then I can see them reversing it but it showed the Pats player on top and then the pile. So there was no way it would get reversed.

 

 

Nope , not at all how the play went.

 

 

 

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Johnny colt Walk On

Johnny colt

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$$$- they'd have to keep them employed full time with a good salary.

Sigh.I just dont think some people realize how much money there is out there.Take the top 5 highest paid......no forget that.Just take the commish's pay alone and decrease it by 1% and that would more than enough make up for it.

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dw49 Team Captain

dw49

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These part timers need to go. Where is Steve Young and Trent Dilfer crying how the NFL just doesn't care about the quality of the refs like they did when the replacement refs were calling games.

 

 

My point is maybe the rule needs to be changed. It's so obvious that this is Colt ball but I think the rules prohibited the reversal as the replay doesn't show the last milli second of Moncrief securing the ball. This call is different from other situations that require that a completed recovery is necessary to reverse the call. All it would involve is asking the official if he made his call thinking that first NE player recovered the football. If he says "yes" , it's Colt ball. 

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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My point is maybe the rule needs to be changed. It's so obvious that this is Colt ball but I think the rules prohibited the reversal as the replay doesn't show the last milli second of Moncrief securing the ball. This call is different from other situations that require that a completed recovery is necessary to reverse the call. All it would involve is asking the official if he made his call thinking that first NE player recovered the football. If he says "yes" , it's Colt ball.

That would be fine, I would prefer they get full time refs. I am not sure how someone could look at that replay and not be completely confident that the Colts recovered the onside kick.

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