Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[Moose Of Woe]

I should add that we shouldn't forget that these where not just any autographed souveniers, they are game worn jersey's and footballs.  Autographs alone from a guy like Tom Brady arn't that super valuable, they are nice to have but on the open market they arn't worth a huge amount of money.

 

But slap that autograph on a game worn jersey or a football . . . especially one from an important moment in his career and you can start up a nice retirement fund 20 years down the road.  

True. I was trying to keep it as short as possible but I think it failed as a TL/DR. There's just too much ridiculousness to choose from. I figured I'd leave exceptionally silly stuff like Belliscience out.

[Bad Morty]

TL/DR which scenario do you believe is more likely:

 

Scenario 1:The NFL is out to get the Pats and Brady because they're mean. They want publicity by slamming one of their largest market teams. Goodell is on a power trip. Choose one or more.

 

Scenario 2: McNally disappears in to the restroom before the game, with a bag full of footballs, to use a urinal which doesn't actually exist and a guy calls himself the deflator as he attempts to lose weight.  In reality, they were deflating footballs. The QB knew damn well the balls were underinflated, as any top notch QB knows what an over or under inflated football feels like, and offered autographed souveniers to keep it under the table.  This discounting the backpeddling (Kraft) destruction of relevant data (Brady)  and web of lies the Pats have spun since then. (Including but not limited to Brady's "cellphone-destruction schedule", wherein he still had and handed over a phone that, by his own timetable, should have been destroyed.)

 

Scenario 3: It's all the Colts' fault.

 

 

In the case of Scenario 2, the NFL had no choice but to intervene or the public backlash of the Pats getting away scott free (again) would have been enormous. Bear in mind, the situation was leaked to ESPN before the NFL could even react. There was zero opportunity to squash it, and it is more probable than not they would have if given the opportunity. So, this time, the Pats and Brady had to take a slap on the wrist.

 

I think if Brady had taken his medicine and admitted it instead of misdirecting and lying he gets, maybe, a one game suspension which  he can probably appeal to 0. Instead he lied, made a stink, and lawyered up. This rightfully, probably, * the league off and here we are. Which is fine, because with the league * off now they'll never turn a blind eye or try to cover up anything for the Pats again if given the opportunity.

I don't agree with this entirely, but I want to focus on this statement of yours: "Instead he lied, made a stink, and lawyered up. This rightfully, probably, * the league off and here we are."

 

So in other words, the league determined that a violation of some kind occurred, but they are basing the severity of the punishment on how the accused responds to the accusation? Is that how a professionally run organization should be operating? Shouldn't the discipline be dictated solely by the violation that occurred and not whether the accused is contrite or defiant? If you park your car illegally and your meter maid gives you a ticket, is the fine increased because you took it to court? That's the problem many people have...the discipline is so far over the top that it comes off as personal. I know that feels good to a lot of people because of the team/player involved, but if you step away from that and consider that it could happen to one of your teams/players too, you might start to see why this whole thing smells pretty bad.

[krunk]

Lawyer Who Litigated Against NFL:  Brady Plays Every Game

 

 

Alan Milstein, an attorney with NFL courtroom experience who has been consulted on issues involving Sport Law, believes Brady and the NFL Players Association have a strong case against the NFL. In a story on his blog that contains a lot of legal jargon, Milstein predicted that the NFLPA will find success arguing that Roger Goodell was not an impartial arbitrator, which would be grounds for a federal court to vacate an arbitration ruling.

Milstein also believes Brady is actually better off in a New York courtroom than he would have been in Minnesota. His reasoning has to do with using “manifest disregard of the law” as a reason for vacating an arbitration award. The Eighth Circuit, which includes Minnesota, has been inconsistent with such rulings. The Second Circuit, which includes New York, recognizes “manifest disregard of the law” as grounds for overturning an arbitration ruling.

What would the law be that the NFL disregarded? As the NFLPA noted in its filing, the policy the league applied to Brady in determining his punishment “only covers teams and team executives, not players.”

 

It also carries a base fine of $25,000.

 

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/lawyer_with_nfl_litigation_experience_predicts_tom_brady_plays_every_game/s1_127_19267066

[Moose Of Woe]

I don't agree with this entirely, but I want to focus on this statement of yours: "Instead he lied, made a stink, and lawyered up. This rightfully, probably, * the league off and here we are."

 

So in other words, the league determined that a violation of some kind occurred, but they are basing the severity of the punishment on how the accused responds to the accusation? Is that how a professionally run organization should be operating? Shouldn't the discipline be dictated solely by the violation that occurred and not whether the accused is contrite or defiant?

 

 

I absolutely think the severity of the punishment would have been altered if Brady had come out afterward and said something to the effect of, "We were wrong, we're sorry, it won't happen again." He'd appeal it and get, at worst, a one game suspension. Probably 0.

 

I think any intention the league had of keeping this as down low as possible went out the window when Kraft came out and demanded an apology from the league. In addition, Brady continued to be defiant. The league may have very well downplayed the Patriots' misdeeds and swept it aside, but they weren't going to take that. Who in their right mind would? You cheated, it's obvious, we have to punish you a bit, so we should apologize to you? Meanwhile the QB keeps lying and trying to make the league look the fool.

 

Shouldn't the discipline be dictated solely by the violation that occurred and not whether the accused is contrite or defiant?

People throw themselves at the mercy of the court in a confession all the time, and it sometimes (often) lessens what would be a harsher penalty. It applies to courtrooms and it happens in the NFL, too. And yes, that's how it should work. Honesty and integrity should mean something.

[Valpo2004]

I don't agree with this entirely, but I want to focus on this statement of yours: "Instead he lied, made a stink, and lawyered up. This rightfully, probably, * the league off and here we are."

 

So in other words, the league determined that a violation of some kind occurred, but they are basing the severity of the punishment on how the accused responds to the accusation? Is that how a professionally run organization should be operating? Shouldn't the discipline be dictated solely by the violation that occurred and not whether the accused is contrite or defiant? If you park your car illegally and your meter maid gives you a ticket, is the fine increased because you took it to court? That's the problem many people have...the discipline is so far over the top that it comes off as personal. I know that feels good to a lot of people because of the team/player involved, but if you step away from that and consider that it could happen to one of your teams/players too, you might start to see why this whole thing smells pretty bad.

 

I don't know I think police and prosecutors might be harsher on you if you are not cooperating.  There is def. going to be some push back there.  But police and prosecutors can get search warrants, subpoena evidence, and punish you for obstruction of justice, destroying evidence, lying in court and lying to police.

 

Also since the NFL doesn't have the power to subpoena evidence it relies entirely on the cooperation of those who are being investigated.  If it lets someone obstruct the investigation, refuse to cooperate, and basically show disrespect for the investigation through the entire process especially to the level that Brady has and gives them either a slap on the wrist or nothing at all then what does that tell everyone after him?

 

The NFL has good reason to punish people for not cooperating with investigations.

 

Also if this was a criminal matter then Brady would be booked on obstruction of justice and willfully destroying evidence.  Say police ask nicely to look at Brady's phone. . . Brady refuses. . . Fine, that's his right.  Police go get a search warrant for the phone and while they are obtaining this search warrant Brady destroys his phone.  That is a crime, he would go to jail for that.  And that would happen even if he did have a history of destroying his previous phones.  Speaking of which Brady told Goodell that he destroys all his old phones. . . that was proven a lie. . . if this was a criminal matter it would either being lying to police or it would be perjury depending on context.  Both are crimes that you go to jail for.

 

So in a sense yes the police can punish you for how you behave during the investigation because the stuff Brady has done if it was a criminal matter would in fact be a crime in and of itself.

[Bad Morty]

I absolutely think the severity of the punishment would have been altered if Brady had come out afterward and said something to the effect of, "We were wrong, we're sorry, it won't happen again." He'd appeal it and get, at worst, a one game suspension. Probably 0.

 

I think any intention the league had of keeping this as down low as possible went out the window when Kraft came out and demanded an apology from the league. In addition, Brady continued to be defiant. The league may have very well downplayed the Patriots' misdeeds and swept it aside, but they weren't going to take that.

 

Shouldn't the discipline be dictated solely by the violation that occurred and not whether the accused is contrite or defiant?

People throw themselves at the mercy of the court in a confession all the time, and it sometimes (often) lessens what would be a harsher penalty. It applies to courtrooms and it happens in the NFL, too. And yes, that's how it should work. Honesty and integrity should mean something.

Yeah we disagree there. Any organization should have clearly defined rules and clearly defined sanctions when those rules are violated. "You do A, you get B. Done". It's hard for me to fathom why the league is an active participant in trying to destroy the legacy and tarnish the image of a guy with his stature and his track record in the league. Frankly, it's weird.

[Narcosys]

 

What's overblown is this is being treated like Watergate, and once the NFLPA got involved, we could count on this going to 1000%. Off topic, but I think DeMaurice Smith's NFLPA is the most disingenuous element of any controversial matter that's come up in the NFL over the past several years. That goes back to the labor debates, and I was mostly on the players' side there. I think Roger Goodell is insanely unpopular, and I don't agree with the public opinion on him either. Look at Sheldon Richardson's situation, and then tell me the commissioner shouldn't come down hard on people who do stupid stuff off the field... 

 

 

 

i think this is an excellent statement Superman.  I find Demaurice Smith to be the worst president the NFLPA has had in awhile.  He defends anything and everything, regardless if its for the good of the rest of the players.  A union does whats best for the interest of all people within the union, even if it means not paying special treatment to one individual.  Thats like why i dont understand current unions.  They are all for giving illegal immigrants amnest and making them full fledged citizens instantly.  They are just making it harder for their members to get jobs.  But that is getting way off topic.  Sorry.  But ya, don't like Smith at all.

[Cynjin]

I don't agree with this entirely, but I want to focus on this statement of yours: "Instead he lied, made a stink, and lawyered up. This rightfully, probably, * the league off and here we are."

So in other words, the league determined that a violation of some kind occurred, but they are basing the severity of the punishment on how the accused responds to the accusation? Is that how a professionally run organization should be operating? Shouldn't the discipline be dictated solely by the violation that occurred and not whether the accused is contrite or defiant? If you park your car illegally and your meter maid gives you a ticket, is the fine increased because you took it to court? That's the problem many people have...the discipline is so far over the top that it comes off as personal. I know that feels good to a lot of people because of the team/player involved, but if you step away from that and consider that it could happen to one of your teams/players too, you might start to see why this whole thing smells pretty bad.

What alternate reality do you live in?

Let's say you do something against the rules where you work. Your boss finds out about it. You have two choices; 1. You confess, say you're sorry and it will not happen again, or 2. You lie about it saying you have nothing to do with the situation and you are uncooperative with gathering information on what happened. Which scenanrio do you think will get you more leniency?

[Moose Of Woe]

Yeah we disagree there. Any organization should have clearly defined rules and clearly defined sanctions when those rules are violated. "You do A, you get B. Done". It's hard for me to fathom why the league is an active participant in trying to destroy the legacy and tarnish the image of a guy with his stature and his track record in the league. Frankly, it's weird.

Laws are the same way. You do A, you get B. But deals/plea bargains are done all the time. Same applies here. Again,I think honesty should mean something.  If you disagree, that's fine.

 

In many corporations, if you admit your first royal screwup you won't be canned. At least not the first time. If you lie, sleeze, or worst of all BLAME SOMEONE ELSE you get canned in a heartbeat.

 

 

It's hard to fathom why the league is attempting to destroy the legacy and tarnish the image of Brady because they aren't. Unless there is some bizarro world motive the league has for it like global conquest, a plethora of circumstantial evidence shows it's a heck of a lot more likely Brady just cheated and the league is doing something about it.

[Valpo2004]

I want to re-emphasize what I said above. . . destroying evidence in a criminal matter and lying in court or even to police are crimes which are punishable by jail time.  

 

The NFL is fully right to punish him for his "lack of cooperation".  He lied to the investigation, to the commissioner about destroying his phones and he also destroyed evidence, the phone itself.  

 

In criminal matters you go to jail for that stuff.  

[Moose Of Woe]

Time to go get some lobstuh. Think I'll watch the circus unfold over the next few weeks. Nobody is going to change anyone's minds at this point so not much point in posting more on this until something else ridiculous happens to laugh at.

That shouldn't take long. I'm hoping up next the league contacts AT@T and finds out Brady  never actually tried to reach them for their records.

[GoColts8818]

I am just glad the Pats are working so hard to clear their equipment mangers names since nothing happened and not just trying to stand up for Brady.

Oh wait they are just letting them sit there suspended. I would hope if It was suggested that I did something wrong at my job and my employer felt I had done nothing wrong that they wouldn't just suspend me because someone wanted me suspended and that they would help to clear my name if nothing had happened.

[Moose Of Woe]

I am just glad the Pats are working so hard to clear their equipment mangers names since nothing happened and not just trying to stand up for Brady.

Oh wait they are just letting them sit there suspended. I would hope if It was suggested that I did something wrong at my job and my employer felt I had done nothing wrong that they wouldn't just suspend me because someone wanted me suspended and that they would help to clear my name if nothing had happened.

The Pats should suspend the Colts for catching them.

 

Edit: Assuming our defense continues to blow, they'll probably suspend 60 on us when we play them.

[Valpo2004]

I am just glad the Pats are working so hard to clear their equipment mangers names since nothing happened and not just trying to stand up for Brady.

Oh wait they are just letting them sit there suspended. I would hope if It was suggested that I did something wrong at my job and my employer felt I had done nothing wrong that they wouldn't just suspend me because someone wanted me suspended and that they would help to clear my name if nothing had happened.

 

To be fair their tactics have sort of changed from "we didn't deflate footballs" to "Brady didn't know about it, we're super cereal" to "Ok Brady knew about it but you can't punish him for it because the rule didn't apply to him and you can't punish him for lying, destroying evidence, and being completely uncooperative with the investigation"

[GoColts8818]

Lawyer Who Litigated Against NFL: Brady Plays Every Game

Alan Milstein, an attorney with NFL courtroom experience who has been consulted on issues involving Sport Law, believes Brady and the NFL Players Association have a strong case against the NFL. In a story on his blog that contains a lot of legal jargon, Milstein predicted that the NFLPA will find success arguing that Roger Goodell was not an impartial arbitrator, which would be grounds for a federal court to vacate an arbitration ruling.

Milstein also believes Brady is actually better off in a New York courtroom than he would have been in Minnesota. His reasoning has to do with using “manifest disregard of the law” as a reason for vacating an arbitration award. The Eighth Circuit, which includes Minnesota, has been inconsistent with such rulings. The Second Circuit, which includes New York, recognizes “manifest disregard of the law” as grounds for overturning an arbitration ruling.

What would the law be that the NFL disregarded? As the NFLPA noted in its filing, the policy the league applied to Brady in determining his punishment “only covers teams and team executives, not players.”

It also carries a base fine of $25,000.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/lawyer_with_nfl_litigation_experience_predicts_tom_brady_plays_every_game/s1_127_19267066

if that's the case it's about did Goodell have the power to do this not about if Brady is innocent or not. So if they rule Goodell doesn't have this power or isn't impartial then that's not clearing Brady's name like it will be spun to mean.

[southwest1]

I'm gonna be honest here. I actually like Robert Kraft, owner of the NE Patriots, a lot. He seems like a level headed, down to earth guy & even though his squad is my team's #1 thorn in the Playoffs, if I saw him on the street I'd probably complement his stewardship of his franchise & politely ask if I can shake his hand. Also, if I'm being honest, starting in 2000 when Bill Belichick took over the team I didn't really care for his non answer press conferences that much, but after awhile I got used to it, realized that's who he was personality wise, & after how his tenure ended in Cleveland this standoffish approach to the media & the 4th estate made perfect sense given how reporters in Ohio were allowed to fracture the locker room & stir the controversy pot. 

 

I mentioned this briefly yesterday. I applauded Mr. Kraft initially for taking the high road & agreeing to pay the organization fine & loss of draft picks without any further friction presumably I'm assuming because Daniel Snyder & Jerry Jones probably said him down & said "Look Bob, we get that the fine is steep, you wanna protect your QB, & you truly believe the penalty is too excessive in scope, but both Dan & I violated salary cap rules in the past & paid a heavy toll too. Our league only works if every team is treated equally the same with no exceptions. Please for the good of the league. Drop your objections, pay the fine, & move on." Thankfully, Robert saw the big picture & did just that. 

 

However, Kraft's defiant press conference yesterday essentially reneged on that previous promise which tarnished & destroyed any good will he initially built for himself in this case. Okay, I get that Bob feels Roger Goodell lied to his face & left him with the false impression that by paying this team fine the Commissioner would slice Brady's suspension in half & when that didn't happen Bob got enraged at Roger for holding firm & steadfast on the original suspension. 2 things: 1. quid pro quo [You do this for me & I do this for you] is not a guarantee or foregone conclusion & 2. No one coerced you Mr. Kraft to backoff or head a gun to your head agreeing to pay the fine. Third, Maybe Goodell took a final look at the evidence & said no I can't have one of the most popular players in the NFL thinking non compliance with an open league investigation is cool & acceptable because it would open the flood gates of dissention & disaster across the football landscape. 

 

Here is Kraft's statement & I get that he's standing up for Brady, which is admirable, but your role in this incident is about 31 other owners & mending fences not your anger & disdain at the Commissioner Robert & Brady decided to take this matter outside the NFL court system not Roger Goodell. What do you mean "you've lost faith in the league?" You don't trust 31 other owners then? That's simply crazy. 

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4782995/robert-krafts-statement-i-was-wrong-to-put-my-faith-in-the-league

 

Here's an interesting alternative viewpoint regarding New England's everybody's out to crucify us fetish....Particularly this far fetched notion that a powerful team owner & QB are been mistreated in this scandal. 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13343272/new-england-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-quarterback-tom-brady-get-taste-justice-system

 

Lastly, I was watching ESPN 1st Take with guest analysts on yesterday & 1 analyst named Wil said something that struck a chord with me. How can Bill Belichick  dodge questions on this latest wrinkle on Brady's possible suspension when 1. He already had another press conference awhile back explaining how atmospheric conditions thru the course of a game cause cause air pressure to change & therefore alter psi levels, 2. You can't make "My Cousin Vinny" jokes in that same press conference & now say nothing more about it other the owner covered all this ground at length & I'm done here other than any training camp questions you might have, Fans pay good money for satellite NFL Sunday ticket memberships & stadium ticket fees don't play cute now Bill. No 1 is asking you to divulge injury secrets or game formations here okay. 

 

It ticks me off that Bill clams up now after he opened the flood gates on psi matters & was cracking jokes. What's so hard about offering an opinion about the next phase of this case? What's your take on your QB's & your owner's latest statements Bill? Don't play hide & seek now. You chimed in on Deflate Gate with atmospheric conditions which could account for lower air pressure readings. You don't get to run away now Bill. You swung this door wide open all by yourself sir. 

[Restored]

no no, what I am saying is that by next year this law suit should be resolved and we will have a years worth of balls tested and we will get a better idea of things.  And also, all of the excitement and anger surrounding this point will have die down.  That is my point, which is kind of no different that some folks get excited after the recent success of a person and are living in the moment, like perhaps a few may have had the day after the this year SB.  

 

What you are saying has absolutely nothing to do with the fact of what Brady did in the eyes of people. And for a large number of them, that viewpoint is that he broke the rules and proceed to try to cover it up. That won't change in a year because of a few tested footballs. Lies don't fade.

[Gramz]

At some point you just have to say to yourself, I can't waste another minute of my valuable time on this.

I've reached that point.

[dynasty13]

I think any intention the league had of keeping this as down low as possible went out the window when Kraft came out and demanded an apology from the league. 

 

See...I think that any intention the league had of keeping this as down low as possible went out the window the second they started intentionally leaking erroneous information to create the narrative they wanted early on. In other words, I don't think they had ANY intention of keeping this low key at all...the NFL got the ball rolling in the direction they wanted and it has just picked up speed ever since. The NFL made it so people would start forming their opinions before any real or information came out....they had zero desire from the very beginning to reel it back in and be truthful....now they're all upset that Brady is allegedly giving them the same disservice? Hypocrites...they want to talk about integrity? Attitude reflects leadership.. and this one came from the very top.

[dynasty13]

At some point you just have to say to yourself, I can't waste another minute of my valuable time on this.

I've reached that point.

 

For the fourth time???

[Moose Of Woe]

See...I think that any intention the league had of keeping this as down low as possible went out the window the second they started intentionally leaking erroneous information to create the narrative they wanted early on. In other words, I don't think they had ANY intention of keeping this low key at all...the NFL got the ball rolling in the direction they wanted and it has just picked up speed ever since. The NFL made it so people would start forming their opinions before any real or information came out....they had zero desire from the very beginning to reel it back in and be truthful....now they're all upset that Brady is allegedly giving them the same disservice? Hypocrites...they want to talk about integrity? Attitude reflects leadership.. and this one came from the very top.

1: This is good lobstuh. Too pricey these days though. I'd hate to see what it costs inland.

 

2: I said I was done, but I'll bite on this. What is the NFL's motive for creating this "narrative?" How does any of this benefit them in any way? Bad publicity is still publicity, but it's not the kind they'd want.

[ViriLudant]

This destroys, absolutely destroys, any argument that the NFL was unbiased.

http://wellsreportcontext.com/league-failure-to-correct-misinformation/

Sorry, Goodell apologists ( which is ironic, since you all hated him pre-January ), The NFL is guilty of railroading the Patriots.

Such s nefarious agenda set by Goodell and Co.

[ViriLudant]

How many passes can a cheating and lying organization and QB get?!?!? Answer that one for me without a bunch of lies. You really think Brady and the Pats look at all good right now??? They look horrible and Brady is ruining his reputation more and more as the days go by. The Pats organization looks like TRASH right now.... utter TRASH!!! It's wreaks of nothing but complete dishonesty!

Stop listening to ESPN for once and read the actual reports.

[dynasty13]

1: This is good lobstuh. Too pricey these days though. I'd hate to see what it costs inland.

 

2: I said I was done, but I'll bite on this. What is the NFL's motive for creating this "narrative?"

 

If it turns out to be true that the original '11 out of 12 Patriots balls were 2 lbs under' report ended up coming from Mike Kensil then I have a big * problem with that. As was said in the article I posted yesterday, that behavior is unacceptable:

 

There is another pattern here — a very unseemly pattern of unethical behavior by the league office under Goodell’s leadership. First, there is always a leak from the league that commands a big headline and gins up public indignation. Next comes a disciplinary hammer from Goodell that makes him look like a hero-protector. But when the excitement dies down and actual facts emerge, it all turns out to be a souped-up overreach.

It happened with the leak of a false report from the league office that 11 of 12 Patriots balls were under-inflated by a full two pounds per square inch. It happened with the science of the Wells Report that would later be shredded. And it’s happened again over the phone. It’s only when you go back and examine the Wells report and study Goodell’s written decision more closely that you discover the phone was never demanded as evidence. 

 

The motive is clear...get out first and control the story, even if that story is total *. 

Edited July 31, 2015 by Superman

[Superman]

Lawyer Who Litigated Against NFL:  Brady Plays Every Game

 

 

Alan Milstein, an attorney with NFL courtroom experience who has been consulted on issues involving Sport Law, believes Brady and the NFL Players Association have a strong case against the NFL. In a story on his blog that contains a lot of legal jargon, Milstein predicted that the NFLPA will find success arguing that Roger Goodell was not an impartial arbitrator, which would be grounds for a federal court to vacate an arbitration ruling.

Milstein also believes Brady is actually better off in a New York courtroom than he would have been in Minnesota. His reasoning has to do with using “manifest disregard of the law” as a reason for vacating an arbitration award. The Eighth Circuit, which includes Minnesota, has been inconsistent with such rulings. The Second Circuit, which includes New York, recognizes “manifest disregard of the law” as grounds for overturning an arbitration ruling.

What would the law be that the NFL disregarded? As the NFLPA noted in its filing, the policy the league applied to Brady in determining his punishment “only covers teams and team executives, not players.”

 

It also carries a base fine of $25,000.

 

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/lawyer_with_nfl_litigation_experience_predicts_tom_brady_plays_every_game/s1_127_19267066

 

I disagree on both counts.

 

Partiality is subjective, but I don't see how the commissioner could be considered more partial than anyone else. His job is to promote the best interests of the league. There's no reasonable basis for believing that he'd be biased against one of the best teams in the, one with an owner that has vehemently supported him since before he got the job. 

 

Second, just because the NFLPA's suit says that the conduct detrimental "law" only applies to executives doesn't make that true. And a quick look back through the history of NFL player suspensions shows very clearly that it's not the case.

 

Third, if it were the case -- and it's not -- it's not true that the "law" only carries a $25K fine. Ray Farmer got a lot more than that, and so did Jim Irsay, so did Joe Vitt and Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis. 

 

Long and short, I feel like his opinion is taking the claims stated by the NFLPA in their suit as fact, without regard for the fact that those claims will be argued. We'll see how it all shakes out, but I don't really agree.

[ViriLudant]

I want to re-emphasize what I said above. . . destroying evidence in a criminal matter and lying in court or even to police are crimes which are punishable by jail time.

The NFL is fully right to punish him for his "lack of cooperation". He lied to the investigation, to the commissioner about destroying his phones and he also destroyed evidence, the phone itself.

In criminal matters you go to jail for that stuff.

WELLS TOLD HIM THAT HE DIDNT NEED:WANT HIS PHONE!!!!

[Superman]

See...I think that any intention the league had of keeping this as down low as possible went out the window the second they started intentionally leaking erroneous information to create the narrative they wanted early on. In other words, I don't think they had ANY intention of keeping this low key at all...the NFL got the ball rolling in the direction they wanted and it has just picked up speed ever since. The NFL made it so people would start forming their opinions before any real or information came out....they had zero desire from the very beginning to reel it back in and be truthful....now they're all upset that Brady is allegedly giving them the same disservice? Hypocrites...they want to talk about integrity? Attitude reflects leadership.. and this one came from the very top.

 

Why?

[Moose Of Woe]

If it turns out to be true that the original '11 out of 12 Patriots balls were 2 lbs under' report ended up coming from Mike Kensil then I have a big f'n problem with that. As was said in the article I posted yesterday, that behavior is unacceptable:

 

There is another pattern here — a very unseemly pattern of unethical behavior by the league office under Goodell’s leadership. First, there is always a leak from the league that commands a big headline and gins up public indignation. Next comes a disciplinary hammer from Goodell that makes him look like a hero-protector. But when the excitement dies down and actual facts emerge, it all turns out to be a souped-up overreach.

It happened with the leak of a false report from the league office that 11 of 12 Patriots balls were under-inflated by a full two pounds per square inch. It happened with the science of the Wells report that would later be shredded. And it’s happened again over the phone. It’s only when you go back and examine the Wells report and study Goodell’s written decision more closely that you discover the phone was never demanded as evidence. 

The motive is clear...get out first and control the story, even if that story is total nonsense. 

So have a story to make Goodell look good. In this case at the expense of one of/the most prominent team in the sport? Tarnish the Superbowl champions? That's overall more important for the league/the other 31 owners?

[ColtsBlueFL]

This is Kraft behind the scenes as well as the other owners who do not want this case strangling the NFL season ...

 

Nobody, I mean Nobody wants the courts to Rul at playoff time, with the real threat of Brady having to sit those game(s) out.  Best to get it done early in the year, if that is what eventually happens (suspension upheld)

[dynasty13]

 

Why?

 

So have a story to make Goodell look good. In this case at the expense of one of/the most prominent team in the sport? Tarnish the Superbowl champions? That's overall more important for the league/over 31 owners?

 

Question. Do you guys think that Mortensen just made that up and reported it all on his own?

 

Or do you think that he got that information from someone in the league?

 

I only ask because if it came from someone in the league when they knew that the information was wrong, then its clear they wanted it out there to start the ball rolling in that direction and they made no effort to control it or correct it at any point since. Otherwise why give someone wrong information to report? The whole thing reeks and if you don't see why Patriots fans have a big freaking problem with that then I don't know what else to tell you.

[Moose Of Woe]

Do you think that Mortensen just made that up and reported it all on his own? Or do you think that he got that information from someone in the league?

 

I only ask because if it came from someone in the league when they knew that the information was wrong, then its clear they wanted it out there to start the ball rolling in that direction and they made no effort to control it or correct it at any point since. Otherwise why give someone wrong information to report? The whole thing reeks.

Do you think that Mortensen just made that up and reported it all on his own? Or do you think that he got that information from someone in the league?

 

I don't think he made it up. I think he had a source from somewhere, but not necessarily the league.

 

Mort also clearly wants to shut up about it and not disclose his source. My speculation is the source wants to remain anonymous. (Whether it's someone from the league or not.)

In which case Mort giving them up would be a surefire way to blackball himself from a lot of contacts in the future. A lot less people would trust him.

[dynasty13]

Do you think that Mortensen just made that up and reported it all on his own? Or do you think that he got that information from someone in the league?

I don't think he made it up. I think he had a source from somewhere, but not necessarily the league.

 

If it does turn out to be a source from the league, would you then understand why Patriots fans are upset about how this all went down? 

[Moose Of Woe]

If it does turn out to be a source from the league, would you then understand why Patriots fans are upset about how this all went down? 

No. If someone in the league had reason to believe the Patriots were cheating I would feel no sympathy for the Patriots or their fans.

 

If the motive were just to stick it the Patriots for %s and giggles and spin a lie then yes, I would. I'm inclined to believe the former based on a boatload of circumstantial evidence.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Observations as I head away for the weekend.  

 

1.  Am and Viriludant - you guys are working so hard to try to convince the world (aka thisNFL message board) of your point of view.  It's really rather amusing and yet incredibly sad.  You have no idea how foolish and unbalanced you appear to those who are not living in your heads.

2.  I am convinced that you two are so delusional about this that it won't matter what happens in the courts.  And the rest of us that are capable of looking at this with dispassionate eyes will not be changed over by your rants.  That said, I'm barely keeping up with this post any longer.

3. Most Patriots fans here have not brought any honor on themselves in the way they have responded to this.  A few have been balanced and have pretty much not commented much here, we don't think all Patriot's fans are completely off the deep end.

4.  NO we are not jealous.  We don't waste two seconds "wishing we were you."  I only add that because that's the next comeback post in three... two... one...

[Superman]

 

 

 

 

 

Question. Do you guys think that Mortensen just made that up and reported it all on his own?

 

Or do you think that he got that information from someone in the league?

 

I only ask because if it came from someone in the league when they knew that the information was wrong, then its clear they wanted it out there to start the ball rolling in that direction and they made no effort to control it or correct it at any point since. Otherwise why give someone wrong information to report? The whole thing reeks and if you don't see why Patriots fans have a big freaking problem with that then I don't know what else to tell you.

 

 

I'm asking a direct question. I wish someone would answer it. 

 

Why would the NFL deliberately drag the Patriots through the mud, especially in the manner which you described in the previous post? 

[dynasty13]

No. If someone in the league had reason to believe the Patriots were cheating I would feel no sympathy for the Patriots or their fans.

 

So you see nothing wrong...nothing at all...with intentionally giving someone false information to report to the public? 

[Girlzarefanstoo]

If it does turn out to be a source from the league, would you then understand why Patriots fans are upset about how this all went down? 

Clean up your own franchise and stop cheating at regular intervals.  If you did so, the league and other teams fans wouldn't be watching you like hawks.  

[GoColts8818]

I'm asking a direct question. I wish someone would answer it.

Why would the NFL deliberately drag the Patriots through the mud, especially in the manner which you described in the previous post?

because the whole world is jealous of them.

[Moose Of Woe]

I'm asking a direct question. I wish someone would answer it. 

 

Why would the NFL deliberately drag the Patriots through the mud, especially in the manner which you described in the previous post? 

They wouldn't. Not unless they're insane, really stupid, or  just crazy, crazy bored in the offseason.

 

I know I'm not the one you're asking, but there's your answer.

[Moose Of Woe]

So you see nothing wrong...nothing at all...with intentionally giving someone false information to report to the public? 

False information, yes.

Reasonable suspicion of cheating, no.