Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[Bad Morty]

I want to know why it was well known around the league that the Patriots used deflated footballs. After reading that, it just seemed like everybody knew about it but didn't want to step up and go at them about it. Till now. Huge mess, but hopefully resolved soon. This whole thing needs to end officially.

Who said it was "well known"? The picture is starting to crystalize here around this scenario:

 

1) Pats beat Ravens, employing legal formation that Harbaugh didn't like and wasn't prepared for

2) Harbaugh whines for 2 days about the Pats using "illegal" formations, even though the league agreed those formations were 100% legal

3) Brady succumbs to temptation, takes a shot at Harbaugh with the "learn the rulebook" comment...that's what set all of this in motion

 

4) Ravens reach out to Colts

5) Colts reach out to the NFL

6) NFL execs arrive at the AFC Championship game ready to "catch" the Patriots at halftime

 

7) Balls get measured, they are below 12.5, the league feels as though they've got all the proof they need. Stories start to leak, operation "Pats Downfall" is in full swing

 

8) Then science rears it's head and somebody realizes that it's normal for balls to deflate in cold temperatures...so the fact that balls measured below their starting point doesn't necessarily mean cheating occurred.

 

This is where the league had a chance to get out of this. Had the league wanted this to not be a thing, they could have simply corrected the Mort story, pointed out that both teams' balls deflated during the half because of the cold weather, and that would have been it. For some inexplicable reason they decided to double down on this and pay millions of dollars to investigate something that never mattered before...why?

 

So I've reached the point where the collapse of this case on Goodell's head will be every bit as satisfying to me as the Superbowl win was.

[dw49]

Grow up. The only inaccurate post of mine was regarding Minnesota .

Other than that , my facts are accurate. You just can't accept it.

Tell me, why is the national media doing an about-face on this, and more and more are defending the Patriots?

 

 

Delusional....

[Flying Elvis]

I want to know why it was well known around the league that the Patriots used deflated footballs. After reading that, it just seemed like everybody knew about it but didn't want to step up and go at them about it. Till now. Huge mess, but hopefully resolved soon. This whole thing needs to end officially.

Anyone can start a rumor. Whether or not it is believable depends on if it involves the Patriots. 

[Bad Morty]

Anyone can start a rumor. Whether or not it is believable depends on if it involves the Patriots. 

 

yep. When you consider that each team supplies it's own balls for each game, it makes you wonder how much truth there could possibly be to rumors like this. How are the Ravens going to know definitively what the psi level of the Patriots balls are? They didn't play each other in the regular season and I don't think the Pats turned it over in the playoff game. So I don't think the Ravens ever had their hands on one to know. Harbaugh is the whiniest sour grapes baby going.

[dw49]

yep. When you consider that each team supplies it's own balls for each game, it makes you wonder how much truth there could possibly be to rumors like this. How are the Ravens going to know definitively what the psi level of the Patriots balls are? They didn't play each other in the regular season and I don't think the Pats turned it over in the playoff game. So I don't think the Ravens ever had their hands on one to know. Harbaugh is the whiniest sour grapes baby going.

 

 

they did tun it over

[jvan1973]

yep. When you consider that each team supplies it's own balls for each game, it makes you wonder how much truth there could possibly be to rumors like this. How are the Ravens going to know definitively what the psi level of the Patriots balls are? They didn't play each other in the regular season and I don't think the Pats turned it over in the playoff game. So I don't think the Ravens ever had their hands on one to know. Harbaugh is the whiniest sour grapes baby going.

you know your team so well ... Brady was picked off in the ravens game

[pgt_rob]

Anyone can start a rumor. Whether or not it is believable depends on if it involves the Patriots. 

 

Pats team aside. It doesn't matter the team in my opinion.

[pgt_rob]

Who said it was "well known"? The picture is starting to crystalize here around this scenario:

 

1) Pats beat Ravens, employing legal formation that Harbaugh didn't like and wasn't prepared for

2) Harbaugh whines for 2 days about the Pats using "illegal" formations, even though the league agreed those formations were 100% legal

3) Brady succumbs to temptation, takes a shot at Harbaugh with the "learn the rulebook" comment...that's what set all of this in motion

 

4) Ravens reach out to Colts

5) Colts reach out to the NFL

6) NFL execs arrive at the AFC Championship game ready to "catch" the Patriots at halftime

 

7) Balls get measured, they are below 12.5, the league feels as though they've got all the proof they need. Stories start to leak, operation "Pats Downfall" is in full swing

 

8) Then science rears it's head and somebody realizes that it's normal for balls to deflate in cold temperatures...so the fact that balls measured below their starting point doesn't necessarily mean cheating occurred.

 

This is where the league had a chance to get out of this. Had the league wanted this to not be a thing, they could have simply corrected the Mort story, pointed out that both teams' balls deflated during the half because of the cold weather, and that would have been it. For some inexplicable reason they decided to double down on this and pay millions of dollars to investigate something that never mattered before...why?

 

So I've reached the point where the collapse of this case on Goodell's head will be every bit as satisfying to me as the Superbowl win was.

 

See... that's the difference between us as fans of the game and players/coaches/nfl higher up employees. There may be still a small portion of important information that is being held out that we may not know about yet.

 

As far as to your paragraph under #8, the footballs made their way into the bathroom when they weren't supposed to. That sort of thing shouldn't fly. Investigation begins...

[ColtsBlueFL]

Yeah I a not a lawyer but both sides agreed to the CBA which gave Goodell the power to do this.  No one made the players agree to the contract.  If they didn't want him to have these powers they shouldn't have agreed to the CBA.  I think that's going to be pretty hard for a judge to toss out because it undoes a major part of the CBA and sets some precedent I doubt the judge wants to set.  Again I am not a lawyer so I might be and probably wrong on that. 

 

It was about the money for the players.  And they weren't together enough to have some players 'miss' game day checks by pushing the lockout into the regular season.  Judicial interference in Owner/Player disputes weren't on their radar.  Until now.  Now they have to run to the courts (Specifically Judge David Doty who has been involved in NFL business since at least the 1987 player strike) and seek remedy, something arbitration was designed to prevent.  So I still place some blame on the players for letting $$$ dominate their focus.  here was the result of the 2011 lockout-

 

************************************************************

 

The five major parts of the 2011 CBA: free agency, salary cap, rookie compensation, minimum salaries, and franchise tags.

The players won $1 billion in additional benefits for retired players, an opportunity to stay in the players' medical plan for life, increased minimum salaries, the continuation of a 16-game regular season schedule, improvements in player safety, increased injury protection, unrestricted free agency after four years, a true salary floor, and increased roster size. Some of the major player safety improvements included five fewer weeks of organized off-season practice, limited on-field practice time, limited full-contact practices, elimination of two-a-day practices in pads, and an increase in the number of days off of work. The players also prevented the owners from knocking them down to 42 percent of league revenues, with a decreasing percentage each year. Starting in 2012, the players also won 55 percent of national media revenue, 45 percent of all NFL Ventures revenue, and 40 percent of local club revenue.

The owners won franchise and transition tags, not having to pay $320 million in benefits for an uncapped year, no judicial oversight in disputes between players and owners, settlement of all pending litigation, a rookie wage system, full regular season game revenue, more equitable revenue sharing and supplemental revenue sharing, no opt out clause for players for 10 years (though the owners cannot opt out, either), and credit for stadium investments with up to 1.5 percent of revenue each year. The league also cited the new CBA as a key factor in being able to negotiate long-term extensions in their television contracts, which were renewed a few months after the CBA was finalized and include minimum 50% increases in rights fees across all television partners.

The owners were unable to get an additional $1 billion off the top of all revenue, an 18-game season, and rights of first refusal for the 2011 unrestricted free agents.

 

[bababooey]

Grow up. The only inaccurate post of mine was regarding Minnesota .

Other than that , my facts are accurate. You just can't accept it.

Tell me, why is the national media doing an about-face on this, and more and more are defending the Patriots?

You keep ignoring me though.

 

You have yet to respond to my posts. I will let the gauge verb/noun thing go since you were proven wrong there. If the pats disagree so much they needed a website to disprove the wells report, why listen to the NFL and suspend the two bozos but challenge everything else?

 

It doesn't matter who is defending the Patriots or the leaking of emails showing the NFL didn't do anything to address the incorrect initial report. It doesn't change the fact a guy nicknamed The Deflator took the balls into a bathroom after they were checked and subsequently most of them were recorded at much lower than science can account for. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Who said it was "well known"? The picture is starting to crystalize here around this scenario:

 

1) Pats beat Ravens, employing legal formation that Harbaugh didn't like and wasn't prepared for

2) Harbaugh whines for 2 days about the Pats using "illegal" formations, even though the league agreed those formations were 100% legal

3) Brady succumbs to temptation, takes a shot at Harbaugh with the "learn the rulebook" comment...that's what set all of this in motion

 

4) Ravens reach out to Colts

5) Colts reach out to the NFL

6) NFL execs arrive at the AFC Championship game ready to "catch" the Patriots at halftime

 

7) Balls get measured, they are below 12.5, the league feels as though they've got all the proof they need. Stories start to leak, operation "Pats Downfall" is in full swing

 

8) Then science rears it's head and somebody realizes that it's normal for balls to deflate in cold temperatures...so the fact that balls measured below their starting point doesn't necessarily mean cheating occurred.

 

This is where the league had a chance to get out of this. Had the league wanted this to not be a thing, they could have simply corrected the Mort story, pointed out that both teams' balls deflated during the half because of the cold weather, and that would have been it. For some inexplicable reason they decided to double down on this and pay millions of dollars to investigate something that never mattered before...why?

 

So I've reached the point where the collapse of this case on Goodell's head will be every bit as satisfying to me as the Superbowl win was.

Asked and answered. 

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/38957-the-cbf-report-udated-now-also-using-wells-report-data/

 

And the well known comes from Sean Sullivan, Colts equipment manager, as below. But there's more!

 

Since you Pats fans like to deflect and accuse so much, and make up stories to fit your perception of the 'facts', how about a little turn about, with our favorite character, McNally the Deflator!

 

Seems he was able to sneak in a brand new kicking balls into the playoff game Vs. Ravens, and then  also tried to sneak one in against the Colts in the AFCCG as well!  Mad skillz with a needle isn't his only claim to fame...

 

c

 

According to ESPN's Outside the Lines, a Patriots locker room attendant attempted to introduce an "unapproved" football into the AFC Championship game against the Colts:

Three sources said that [Patriots employee Jim] McNally has worked Patriots games for a decade, and has been in charge of the officials' locker room at Gillette Stadium since at least 2008. In the first half of the AFC Championship Game, McNally tried to give the unapproved football to an alternate official who was in charge of the special-teams footballs. Those footballs are known as "kicking balls" or "K balls."

The alternate official, Greg Yette, became suspicious when he noticed that the football McNally handed him did not have the proper markings on it, three sources said. One of those sources added that Yette found it surprising that the officials' locker room attendant was on the field, trying to hand him a ball, because officials' locker room attendants don't typically have ball-handling responsibilities during NFL games. Once McNally tried to introduce the unapproved football into the game, the source said, Yette notified the NFL's vice president of game operations, Mike Kensil, who was at the game in the press box.

[amfootball]

Some of the harshest comments yet on this saga by Tikki Barber:

 

“There is a rule of law,” Barber said. “That’s why we live here. The rule of law matters. Process mattes – and you can’t just change the process and think nobody’s going to find out. It’s almost like he’s got a dictatorship going on. What I say is rule, and I’m going to make it up as I go along and you cannot protest – and if you do protest, it’s going to be harder on you. That’s what this feels like and it’s not okay with me. I know some people will sit back and say, ‘Yeah, but it’s a private enterprise, they make billions of dollars, they can do whatever they want.’ Tom Brady has rights. The Patriots have rights. And you can’t just stomp on them because you have an agenda you may not be telling anybody about. . . . Roger Goodell is not explaining himself. He’s either being incompetent or he’s being specifically and maliciously evasive – and it’s just not okay. I used to have trust in what he was doing. I don’t anymore, especially since this transcript came out and it reads like someone who just doesn’t care. It’s my way or no way.”

Tierney asked Barber if he thought Goodell should lose his job.

“Yes,” Barber said. “All this stuff is coming out now – it looks ugly for Roger Goodell. I don’t trust him as the commissioner of the National Football League anymore. So to answer your question, yeah, I’d fire him.”

 

http://tikiandtierney.radio.cbssports.com/2015/08/07/tiki-barber-says-roger-goodell-should-be-fired/

[dw49]

Some of the harshest comments yet on this saga by Tikki Barber:

 

“There is a rule of law,” Barber said. “That’s why we live here. The rule of law matters. Process mattes – and you can’t just change the process and think nobody’s going to find out. It’s almost like he’s got a dictatorship going on. What I say is rule, and I’m going to make it up as I go along and you cannot protest – and if you do protest, it’s going to be harder on you. That’s what this feels like and it’s not okay with me. I know some people will sit back and say, ‘Yeah, but it’s a private enterprise, they make billions of dollars, they can do whatever they want.’ Tom Brady has rights. The Patriots have rights. And you can’t just stomp on them because you have an agenda you may not be telling anybody about. . . . Roger Goodell is not explaining himself. He’s either being incompetent or he’s being specifically and maliciously evasive – and it’s just not okay. I used to have trust in what he was doing. I don’t anymore, especially since this transcript came out and it reads like someone who just doesn’t care. It’s my way or no way.”

Tierney asked Barber if he thought Goodell should lose his job.

“Yes,” Barber said. “All this stuff is coming out now – it looks ugly for Roger Goodell. I don’t trust him as the commissioner of the National Football League anymore. So to answer your question, yeah, I’d fire him.”

 

http://tikiandtierney.radio.cbssports.com/2015/08/07/tiki-barber-says-roger-goodell-should-be-fired/

 

 

Yadda . yadda , yadda. Just like the post a while back saying how Cromarte was on Brady's side. I finally read it for the heck of it and you really have to be kidding me to have posted that in the way you did. What the man said was he wasn't saying Brady was innocent. What he really did was misread the rules and say that by rule the NFL could only fine the offense 25K. Other words just a guy that is better playing football than interpreting rule books. 

 

Do I really have to find players and X players that think Brady should have owned up to this long ago ? I mean .. why don't you people sit back and see what happens instead of spending all your time looking for anyone of the human race that will side with your viewpoint ? I thought you had sworn off the thread a while ago ?

[GoColts8818]

Again this is just my opinion and I am well aware Pats fans are going to disagree.

Rather Brady did this or not has been ruled on. That's what the investigation was for and it found that Brady did this, well. At lest that is was more than likely that he did this. Now you can not like the findings and disagree with them and I am well aware of all the points Pats fans disagree with this on so I don't need them rehashed for me.

What's happening is now is that Brady is challenging the punishment and specifically did Goodell over step the powers given to him in the CBA. Brady may very well have a case for that but that proves Goodell abused his powers not that Brady and the Pats didn't do this.

I also think it's very important to remember that the NFL doesn't have the same standard as a legal trial in terms of determining if a player is breaking a rule or not. In other words they don't need it proved beyond a reasonable doubt. More than likely is good enough for them and that's what the investigation showed.

Pretty much what's going on now is that Brady is challenging how the league acted after the Wells report came back. So it's challenging punishment. So that leaves us to pick a side either you believe the evidence that has been presented or you believe Brady when he comes out and says despite all that is there I didn't do it. That's why I don't think a court ruling is going to give either side 100% victory they are looking for. Short of a video coming out that shows someone discussing this and saying something like "remember Brady can never know we did this." or a video showing Brady putting a needle in a football this is never going to be settled. It's going to come down to where do you side.

I would strongly encourage both sides to agree that the other side is going to exist and nothing that we are going to say on a message board is going to make the other side go away.

Again the above is just my opinions based on what I am seeing. I am well aware of all the facts and opinions that are out there. I don't need/want to rehash them or worse yet argue about them.

[IndyRC_Racer]

I'm losing track will all of the rhetoric in this forum regarding what members of the Patriots organization have actually stated. I was wondering if someone could clear up a few questions I have.

 

 

 

- What did Brady actually say about his relationship or lack thereof with the Patriots equipment personal (that are currently suspended)?

 

If I recall, didn't Brady at some point at least misrepresent or lie about knowing who these people were? Was Brady ever asked directly about his knowledge or relationship with the equipment guys during the Wells investigation or during the appeal process?

 

 

 

- Did anyone from the Patriots organization specifically address why one of their employees broke the game day protocol for handling the footballs?

 

 

 

- If the NFL had a back-up game day ball procedure in place, has there every been another instance in the history of the league where they needed to use the back-up balls because the game day balls went missing?

 

Does anyone know if any current/former NFL referees have been asked about the ways teams do/have tried to tamper with game equipment? If we are going to believe that "this kind of thing goes on all the time", it would be interesting to hear from a former referee or equipment personal of the ways that teams have tried to gain a competitive advantage

[ColtRider]

Asked and answered. 

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/38957-the-cbf-report-udated-now-also-using-wells-report-data/

 

And the well known comes from Sean Sullivan, Colts equipment manager, as below. But there's more!

 

Since you Pats fans like to deflect and accuse so much, and make up stories to fit your perception of the 'facts', how about a little turn about, with our favorite character, McNally the Deflator!

 

Seems he was able to sneak in a brand new kicking balls into the playoff game Vs. Ravens, and then  also tried to sneak one in against the Colts in the AFCCG as well!  Mad skillz with a needle isn't his only claim to fame...

 

c

 

According to ESPN's Outside the Lines, a Patriots locker room attendant attempted to introduce an "unapproved" football into the AFC Championship game against the Colts:

Three sources said that [Patriots employee Jim] McNally has worked Patriots games for a decade, and has been in charge of the officials' locker room at Gillette Stadium since at least 2008. In the first half of the AFC Championship Game, McNally tried to give the unapproved football to an alternate official who was in charge of the special-teams footballs. Those footballs are known as "kicking balls" or "K balls."

The alternate official, Greg Yette, became suspicious when he noticed that the football McNally handed him did not have the proper markings on it, three sources said. One of those sources added that Yette found it surprising that the officials' locker room attendant was on the field, trying to hand him a ball, because officials' locker room attendants don't typically have ball-handling responsibilities during NFL games. Once McNally tried to introduce the unapproved football into the game, the source said, Yette notified the NFL's vice president of game operations, Mike Kensil, who was at the game in the press box.

Just as most here on this forum have claimed. The Patriots and Brady are _ guilty_ within their own actions. No one is going to tell me that the use of K-balls does not have anything to do with the rest of the official game balls at a "supposed pit stop urinal" via "The Deflator"! It's amazing to me that as long as this has been going on, based upon prior action(s), the purported facts are not considered to be irrefutable by most people who can read, digest, and _understand_ logic and common sense. Incredible.

[amfootball]

Yadda . yadda , yadda. Just like the post a while back saying how Cromarte was on Brady's side. I finally read it for the heck of it and you really have to be kidding me to have posted that in the way you did. What the man said was he wasn't saying Brady was innocent. What he really did was misread the rules and say that by rule the NFL could only fine the offense 25K. Other words just a guy that is better playing football than interpreting rule books. 

 

Do I really have to find players and X players that think Brady should have owned up to this long ago ? I mean .. why don't you people sit back and see what happens instead of spending all your time looking for anyone of the human race that will side with your viewpoint ? I thought you had sworn off the thread a while ago ?

It is stunning to me that you still believe this thing was EVER about air ball pressure in a football. That is what Tikki, and Bailey and now Cromartie are getting at. The commish as he has been all too prone to do has yet again abused his power while also lying in the process because the Pats refused to admit guilt in a sham of an investigation. Yet you STILL blame Brady when he they have zero evidence on him orchestrating a thing and have NOT proven ball deflation. And before you go talking about McNally and the bathroom as you love to do, him taking pee proves exactly nothing when the ball measurements showed no tampering unless of course you want to believe the league who all but strong armed Walt Anderson into maybe admitting that he used the gauge that would have shown exactly a .4 psi drop not the 2 lbs as the league leaked to Mort and then never bothered to correct.

 

I mean read anything that has been written in the last 2 days and you will see the national media is calling out Roger as the biggest fraud. I leave you with this cartoon to further demonstrate and also because it is funny.

 

[ViriLudant]

Delusional....

Thanks for proving my point.

Again.

Man, you can't seem to get anything right in this situation , can you?

[ViriLudant]

You keep ignoring me though.

You have yet to respond to my posts. I will let the gauge verb/noun thing go since you were proven wrong there. If the pats disagree so much they needed a website to disprove the wells report, why listen to the NFL and suspend the two bozos but challenge everything else?

It doesn't matter who is defending the Patriots or the leaking of emails showing the NFL didn't do anything to address the incorrect initial report. It doesn't change the fact a guy nicknamed The Deflator took the balls into a bathroom after they were checked and subsequently most of them were recorded at much lower than science can account for.

Because suspending McNally and J for talking trash about Brady probably ticked off the Patriot FO.

That, and the two of them aren't even around Foxborough at all except for game days, I believe. They are both game day employees.

[amfootball]

Yadda . yadda , yadda. Just like the post a while back saying how Cromarte was on Brady's side. I finally read it for the heck of it and you really have to be kidding me to have posted that in the way you did. What the man said was he wasn't saying Brady was innocent. What he really did was misread the rules and say that by rule the NFL could only fine the offense 25K. Other words just a guy that is better playing football than interpreting rule books. 

 

Do I really have to find players and X players that think Brady should have owned up to this long ago ? I mean .. why don't you people sit back and see what happens instead of spending all your time looking for anyone of the human race that will side with your viewpoint ? I thought you had sworn off the thread a while ago ?

And also, you really, really need to read Brady's appeal transcript and then compare to Goodell's appeal 20 page appeal letter and then tell me if you think Brady should have copped to a thing.

[Bad Morty]

Just as most here on this forum have claimed. The Patriots and Brady are _ guilty_ within their own actions. No one is going to tell me that the use of K-balls does not have anything to do with the rest of the official game balls at a "supposed pit stop urinal" via "The Deflator"! It's amazing to me that as long as this has been going on, based upon prior action(s), the purported facts are not considered to be irrefutable by most people who can read, digest, and _understand_ logic and common sense. Incredible.

And yet we have halftime ball measurements that aren't low enough to make any definitive claim that the balls were tampered with at all...and that's taking the NFL's word for it that Coleman actually gauged those balls at the beginning of the game and remembers that they were all around 12.5...in light of all the other things that have come to light regarding the NFL's misconduct in this affair, I am back to wondering how we can just take their word for it that Coleman actually stuck a gauge in all these balls pre-game versus just feeling them. The NFL doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt on this rather important "take our word for it - he gauged them" point.

[jvan1973]

And yet we have halftime ball measurements that aren't low enough to make any definitive claim that the balls were tampered with at all...and that's taking the NFL's word for it that Coleman actually gauged those balls at the beginning of the game and remembers that they were all around 12.5...in light of all the other things that have come to light regarding the NFL's misconduct in this affair, I am back to wondering how we can just take their word for it that Coleman actually stuck a gauge in all these balls pre-game versus just feeling them. The NFL doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt on this rather important "take our word for it - he gauged them" point.

buy you think the patriots deserve "benefit of doubt" That's rich

[dw49]

Thanks for proving my point.

Again.

Man, you can't seem to get anything right in this situation , can you?

 

 

You are delusional as I said

[Bad Morty]

buy you think the patriots deserve "benefit of doubt" That's rich

yeah...but I have a higher standard for what it should take for a league to try to destroy the reputation of their best franchise and best player...like for example, actual evidence of wrong-doing.

[dw49]

It is stunning to me that you still believe this thing was EVER about air ball pressure in a football. That is what Tikki, and Bailey and now Cromartie are getting at. The commish as he has been all too prone to do has yet again abused his power while also lying in the process because the Pats refused to admit guilt in a sham of an investigation. Yet you STILL blame Brady when he they have zero evidence on him orchestrating a thing and have NOT proven ball deflation. And before you go talking about McNally and the bathroom as you love to do, him taking pee proves exactly nothing when the ball measurements showed no tampering unless of course you want to believe the league who all but strong armed Walt Anderson into maybe admitting that he used the gauge that would have shown exactly a .4 psi drop not the 2 lbs as the league leaked to Mort and then never bothered to correct.

 

I mean read anything that has been written in the last 2 days and you will see the national media is calling out Roger as the biggest fraud. I leave you with this cartoon to further demonstrate and also because it is funny.

 

 

 

You are really sick in the head

[jvan1973]

yeah...but I have a higher standard for what it should take for a league to try to destroy the reputation of their best franchise and best player...like for example, actual evidence of wrong-doing.

there is tons of circumstantial evidence. you just choose to ignore it.

[Bad Morty]

there is tons of circumstantial evidence. you just choose to ignore it.

No - there really isn't. There is a text message from 5 months before the AFC Championship game where a guy calls himself "the deflator" and there is video of a guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls for 90 seconds. When you boil it right down, those are the only 2 pieces of highly circumstantial evidence that exist in this case.

[dw49]

Have you read the appeals transcript?

 

 

Im too busy trying to make a living to read that nonsense. The ball ball took them into the bathroom and let a little air out of the balls. This was because Brady was furious over the inflated balls at the Jet game. He probably said something like "I never want to throw balls like that again and it's your job to see to that." They took air out of footballs .. it's obvious. I'm way too busy to read through all that crap.

[Bad Morty]

Im too busy trying to make a living to read that nonsense. The ball ball took them into the bathroom and let a little air out of the balls. This was because Brady was furious over the inflated balls at the Jet game. He probably said something like "I never want to throw balls like that again and it's your job to see to that." They took air out of footballs .. it's obvious. I'm way too busy to read through all that crap.

...

[jvan1973]

No - there really isn't. There is a text message from 5 months before the AFC Championship game where a guy calls himself "the deflator" and there is video of a guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls for 90 seconds. When you boil it right down, those are the only 2 pieces of highly circumstantial evidence that exist in this case.

The deflator who wasn't taking his story to espn "yet"

[dw49]

lol

 

 

LOL at all you dreamers...

 

Would you maybe like to put up maybe 200K in escrow and we'll bet that I'm not in the middle of doing a 1031 exchange on 8.6 Mill worth of properties ? 

[Bad Morty]

The deflator who wasn't taking his story to espn "yet"

Interesting how not a word of that guy's testimony appears in the Wells report despite him being interviewed 4 times by Wells, isn't it? I wonder why Wells left his testimony out?

[Moose Of Woe]

No - there really isn't. There is a text message from 5 months before the AFC Championship game where a guy calls himself "the deflator" and there is video of a guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls for 90 seconds.

To use a urinal that doesn't exist.

[Bad Morty]

LOL at all you dreamers...

 

Would you maybe like to put up maybe 200K in escrow and we'll bet that I'm not in the middle of doing a 1031 exchange on 8.6 Mill worth of properties ? 

I was lol'ing at your "it's obvious" comment...not your career. But good for you...I also have a job and do stuff.

[Bad Morty]

To use a urinal that doesn't exist.

 

So what you are doing is using circumstantial evidence to claim McNally did something to the footballs even though the ball measurements at halftime are inconclusive that that happened. That's fine - possibly even rational and I might even agree with you that just for the look of taking those balls to the bathroom the team should have been fined. But you are then making the jump with this same circumstantial evidence to claim that not only did McNally deflate balls (despite no evidence), but also Brady was directly involved in it and should be suspended and branded a cheater. That is frankly ridiculous.

[amfootball]

Im too busy trying to make a living to read that nonsense. The ball ball took them into the bathroom and let a little air out of the balls. This was because Brady was furious over the inflated balls at the Jet game. He probably said something like "I never want to throw balls like that again and it's your job to see to that." They took air out of footballs .. it's obvious. I'm way too busy to read through all that crap.

Nonsense?? It was the actual appeal where Roger based his reasoning for upholding the suspension. Honestly, we really can't have a discussion on this any further if you are going to ignore a central piece of data from this discussion.

 

I know it is long but Brady's portion is only about 100 pages. Just read that and the stuff that Wells said.

[dw49]

I was lol'ing at your "it's obvious" comment...not your career. But good for you...I also have a job and do stuff.

 

Ahhh .. we're good. Bad comment by on my part anyway.

[dw49]

Nonsense?? It was the actual appeal where Roger based his reasoning for upholding the suspension. Honestly, we really can't have a discussion on this any further if you are going to ignore a central piece of data from this discussion.

 

I know it is long but Brady's portion is only about 100 pages. Just read that and the stuff that Wells said.

 

 

Considering I haven't read through a whole book in about 25 years , 100 pages is asking too much. I don't know why I can't stay focussed on reading material.. maybe I'm AD ? Anyway , I really don't care a whole lot about how this ends up. I think he more than likely did it but on the other hand the punishment IMO was a bit harsh... 

[Moose Of Woe]

But you are then making the jump with this same circumstantial evidence to claim that not only did McNally deflate balls (despite no evidence), but also Brady was directly involved in it and should be suspended and branded a cheater. That is frankly ridiculous.

The problem is that's not the only circumstantial evidence.

[ViriLudant]

You are really sick in the head

Ad homines, the tactic of those who cannot be logical.