Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[dw49]

I'm still trying to figure out what people think they will find on his phone that would incriminate him...especially since every text or conversation between Brady and the ball guys is already known. 

   

 

​I would think that maybe some think there could be incriminating texts to a person or person's other than Jestremski ? 

[southwest1]

"But what if Brady turns over his communications, and no link to deflation is found?... So he will remain suspended in some fashion based on a lower bar of estimation and circumstantial evidence met by our investigators."

 

Obstruction & non compliance is still a violation to me & why should Brady be rewarded if he turns over his phone now in terms of leniency? At the time Ted Wells asked for Tommy text messages, Brady & his attorney said no. In my mind, delayed cooperation is not the same thing as full timely cooperation so therefore there is no pass for good behavior with no other option left but to comply now. Forget that game. 

 

The League doesn't have to prove anything. Brady needs to furnish evidence documenting what he did the night of the AFC Championship Game, why his texts were off limits to Ted Wells, & does he really think [brady] that the rest of the world is that darn stupid? Yeah right Tommy, you throw footballs for a living but have no idea how they were low PSI wise. Please. 

 

I don't reward players for trying to do the right thing now when the world has collectively said "Ah Tommy, we don't believe your ignorance anymore" & you don't get a 2nd bite at the I'm innocent redemption angle. Sorry. That's too little too late. You made your own bed here, by the choices you made. Now, lie in it & don't blame anyone else for the actions you yourself took of your own free will & mind Mr. Brady. 

[Narcosys]

I'm still trying to figure out what people think they will find on his phone that would incriminate him...especially since every text or conversation between Brady and the ball guys is already known. 

 

Im just trying to figure out why everyone still has a corn cob up where the sun dont shine over all of this.  Theres tons of information going both ways, nothing can or will be done until its done.  I cant believe this thing is up to 19 pages... like... seriously?  Everything that there is to possibly talk about has been hashed, rehashed, and then hashed again.  I think its time for everyone on both sides to let this dead dog lie and talk again during Week 6.

[southwest1]

Aliens did it,it was all done by aliens,they are everywhere,Infiltrating our lives,deflating our footballs,what next?

LOL! Good one Robert that's about where we are at right now too when all the other claims simply don't hold any water or credibility anymore. People keep saying this case is a circus now & it is, but who made it a circus exactly? Not Goodell, Not Grigson, Not referees or their gauges, but 1 man named Tom Brady who could have cleared this matter up all nice & easy had he cooperated, turned over his phone, & just said "I can't plead ignorance here. Please forgive me" & I would eventually. 

 

Brady's punishment is separate from the team. And the league games operations book makes it clear that only the TEAM can be punished for ball tampering, not a player. So Brady's team has that point as well in his favor.

Tom is the face of the NE Patriots. He is automatically held to a higher standard of conduct much like a team owner is. I would also like to know what the NFL Commissioner told the organization after SpyGate as in "If any questionable funny business happens again, this is the level of scrutiny I am holding your team to BTW." I've said it before & I'll say it again, Brady is at the eye of this deflate gate hurricane. He put your organization here. No one else did. What did he know & when did he know it? It's 1 thing to defend a HOF QB; It's quite another to not even consider that maybe just maybe your QB fibbed about what went down that night. 

 

The lie itself doesn't bother me that much just this compulsion that Brady never be wrong & acting as if a possible 4 game suspension is the end of the world AMF. It's really not. Your team is still gonna win 11-12 games & compete for a SB like they do every year almost. NE will always be a force to be reckoned with as long as Bill is running the show. 

[crazycolt1]

Im just trying to figure out why everyone still has a corn cob up where the sun dont shine over all of this.  Theres tons of information going both ways, nothing can or will be done until its done.  I cant believe this thing is up to 19 pages... like... seriously?  Everything that there is to possibly talk about has been hashed, rehashed, and then hashed again.  I think its time for everyone on both sides to let this dead dog lie and talk again during Week 6.

That is not going to happen. No matter what the outcome of the appeal is it will be the same old thing. He did it/ No he didn't? But team (your choice) did this 5 years ago? So what? Farve didn't get suspended? His was not an on the field issue? But Santa Clause's report says this? So what? The "deflator" means weight loss? Horse dung? Is this ever going to end? when hades freezes over?

[southwest1]

I'm still trying to figure out what people think they will find on his phone that would incriminate him...especially since every text or conversation between Brady and the ball guys is already known. 

I really don't give a darn what is or isn't on his phone right now. Brady chose to play hardball, stonewall, & not comply with the investigation that he promised he would so therefore, if you tick me off as an investigator, I'm not doing you any you any favors now. I never reward defiance ever. 

[Narcosys]

That is not going to happen. No matter what the outcome of the appeal is it will be the same old thing. He did it/ No he didn't? But team (your choice) did this 5 years ago? So what? Farve didn't get suspended? His was not an on the field issue? But Santa Clause's report says this? So what? The "deflator" means weight loss? Horse dung? Is this ever going to end? when hades freezes over?

[Narcosys]

my initial reaction to this whole thing

 

[Cynjin]

Mortensen is reporting that Ted Wells will be at the meeting.

[Cynjin]

Tomorrow should be interesring, and I wish I was a little bird inside that Appeals hearing.

 

Mortensen is reporting that Ted Well will be attending the hearing.

[amfootball]

LOL! Good one Robert that's about where we are at right now too when all the other claims simply don't hold any water or credibility anymore. People keep saying this case is a circus now & it is, but who made it a circus exactly? Not Goodell, Not Grigson, Not referees or their gauges, but 1 man named Tom Brady who could have cleared this matter up all nice & easy had he cooperated, turned over his phone, & just said "I can't plead ignorance here. Please forgive me" & I would eventually. 

 

Tom is the face of the NE Patriots. He is automatically held to a higher standard of conduct much like a team owner is. I would also like to know what the NFL Commissioner told the organization after SpyGate as in "If any questionable funny business happens again, this is the level of scrutiny I am holding your team to BTW." I've said it before & I'll say it again, Brady is at the eye of this deflate gate hurricane. He put your organization here. No one else did. What did he know & when did he know it? It's 1 thing to defend a HOF QB; It's quite another to not even consider that maybe just maybe your QB fibbed about what went down that night. 

 

The lie itself doesn't bother me that much just this compulsion that Brady never be wrong & acting as if a possible 4 game suspension is the end of the world AMF. It's really not. Your team is still gonna win 11-12 games & compete for a SB like they do every year almost. NE will always be a force to be reckoned with as long as Bill is running the show. 

Your entire position on this SW is stunning to me. Really stunning.

[ViriLudant]

Show me where Brady legally is obligated to hand over his cell phone.

I'll give you a hint : nowhere. Clearly none of you know the legality of the issues at hand.

[ViriLudant]

I see that SW's understanding of the whole situation is still lacking.

Tell me, SW, what your take is on the whole scientific community discrediting the Wells report.

[amfootball]

Mortensen is reporting that Ted Well will be attending the hearing.

Yes he is so Keesler can call him as a witness and grill him on his bogus report, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/22/ted-wells-will-attend-at-brady-appeal-hearing/

[southwest1]

Show me where Brady legally is obligated to hand over his cell phone.

I'll give you a hint : nowhere. Clearly none of you know the legality of the issues at hand.

Obligated? Generally, when a person agrees to comply fully with an investigation they usually follow suit. Are you a lawyer by profession VL? I know Yehoodi is. 

 

Wouldn't it make perfect sense that a QB who has nothing to hide would do whatever he can to either free his name or remove all doubt that he did nothing deceptive or something that couldn't be empirically proven as deceptive? What's so difficult about working with Mr. Yee to print out the relevant texts & still preserve your client's civil rights?  

[Gramz]

Show me where Brady legally is obligated to hand over his cell phone.

I'll give you a hint : nowhere. Clearly none of you know the legality of the issues at hand.

we've been over this so many times.

He was never asked to hand over his phone.

I am very aware of the legality of the issues at hand, and hope everyone can soon move past this.

I simply Can Not wait for the season to start.

[Cynjin]

Yes he is so Keesler can call him as a witness and grill him on his bogus report, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/22/ted-wells-will-attend-at-brady-appeal-hearing/

 

Lol, bogus report?  I am still waiting on those applicable analogies from you that show the NFL is not being consistent with their punishment.

[Cynjin]

Show me where Brady legally is obligated to hand over his cell phone.

I'll give you a hint : nowhere. Clearly none of you know the legality of the issues at hand.

 

As other posters have said, multiple times, Brady was never asked to hand over his phone, but don't let facts get in the way of your fandom.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Ted Wells and Jeffry Kessler, (2 high powered lawyers) arguing science in front of Goodell...  that would be worth buying a ticket to attend...

 

No doubt they will thrust and parry and bludgeon each other to death...

 

Last I knew, this was Brady's focus for appeal-

 

**************************************************************************************************

Brady's counsel will contend that Goodell violated the collective bargaining agreement by delegating authority to executive vice president Troy Vincent to hand down Brady's punishment.

Brady's counsel also plans to argue that the penalties for Brady are "grossly inconsistent" with the league's past discipline of similar alleged conduct.

In addition, Brady's counsel will detail how the Wells report "grasps at dubious, contradictory and mischaracterized circumstantial evidence." Because of this, it will be argued that the report is a "legally inadequate basis upon which to impose unprecedented discipline."

**************************************************************************************************

[dw49]

As other posters have said, multiple times, Brady was never asked to hand over his phone, but don't let facts get in the way of your fandom.

 

 

It's like when a report came out saying "one football was 2PSI under and many were found to be just a tick or two under." VL posted at least 5 times that "ALL" the footballs , other than the one the Colts had on their sidelines , were just a tick under. From there he went on to say in his opinion , the Pats would be exonerated and the Colts found guilty of tampering. I corrected him probably 3-4 times that the report didn't say ow even meant to say what he was embellishing or not capable of reading. This is pretty much the same. The fact is ,... he was never asked "to hand over his cell phone." As you see VL just ignores the truth and will pound right back with it a few hours later. So suggest you give it up...

[southwest1]

Your entire position on this SW is stunning to me. Really stunning.

Look, I respect that you're standing up for your HOF QB & it is true that neither side [the pro Brady side vs the we're not buying it side] are privy to all the evidence used to make the case for or against this 4 game suspension. But this idea that Brady's gonna get the entire suspension overturned is beyond a pipe dream & nowhere near reality.

 

He's getting something. There's no immunity get out of jail free card here. No way. A reduction maybe but some sort of a victory parade? Ah no. I don't think so. 

 

What I find "stunning" is what magical bullet does Brady's legal team at their disposal to pardon their client entirely? Don't bring up how Bounty Gate was overturned either. Each case gets examined & judged as it's own entity. Track records of cases that Goodell got backlash on are irrelevant to Deflate Gate.

 

If NE fans claim that his legacy is so intact, why are they fighting so hard to remove a suspension nobody will give a darn about when he receives his yellow jacket? That's what just boggles my mind, if the suspension won't affect his shot at a bronze bust 5 years after Brady retires why are so many Pats fans treating his suspension like we just said something derogatory about his own mother? 

[ViriLudant]

Obligated? Generally, when a person agrees to comply fully with an investigation they usually follow suit. Are you a lawyer by profession VL? I know Yehoodi is.

Wouldn't it make perfect sense that a QB who has nothing to hide would do whatever he can to either free his name or remove all doubt that he did nothing deceptive or something that couldn't be empirically proven as deceptive? What's so difficult about working with Mr. Yee to print out the relevant texts & still preserve your client's civil rights?

No lawyer in the world would ever tell their client to hand over their phone.

Tell me, did this investigation have any leaks at all?

If the answer is yes , why would Brady ever hand his phone over?

[ViriLudant]

Obligated? Generally, when a person agrees to comply fully with an investigation they usually follow suit. Are you a lawyer by profession VL? I know Yehoodi is.

Wouldn't it make perfect sense that a QB who has nothing to hide would do whatever he can to either free his name or remove all doubt that he did nothing deceptive or something that couldn't be empirically proven as deceptive? What's so difficult about working with Mr. Yee to print out the relevant texts & still preserve your client's civil rights?

What if there were no texts that were relevant? What would the point be?

[ViriLudant]

It's like when a report came out saying "one football was 2PSI under and many were found to be just a tick or two under." VL posted at least 5 times that "ALL" the footballs , other than the one the Colts had on their sidelines , were just a tick under. From there he went on to say in his opinion , the Pats would be exonerated and the Colts found guilty of tampering. I corrected him probably 3-4 times that the report didn't say ow even meant to say what he was embellishing or not capable of reading. This is pretty much the same. The fact is ,... he was never asked "to hand over his cell phone." As you see VL just ignores the truth and will pound right back with it a few hours later. So suggest you give it up...

SW is the one bringing up the cell phone, not me.

[ViriLudant]

Look, I respect that you're standing up for your HOF QB & it is true that neither side [the pro Brady side vs the we're not buying it side] are privy to all the evidence used to make the case for or against this 4 game suspension. But this idea that Brady's gonna get the entire suspension overturned is beyond a pipe dream & nowhere near reality.

He's getting something. There's no immunity get out of jail free card here. No way. A reduction maybe but some sort of a victory parade? Ah no. I don't think so.

What I find "stunning" is what magical bullet does Brady's legal team at their disposal to pardon their client entirely? Don't bring up how Bounty Gate was overturned either. Each case gets examined & judged as it's own entity. Track records of cases that Goodell got backlash on are irrelevant to Deflate Gate.

If NE fans claim that his legacy is so intact, why are they fighting so hard to remove a suspension nobody will give a darn about when he receives his yellow jacket? That's what just boggles my mind, if the suspension won't affect his shot at a bronze bust 5 years after Brady retires why are so many Pats fans treating his suspension like we just said something derogatory about his own mother?

Here's the part that you somehow don't seem to understand :

It's very, very simple.

If science proves that the balls deflated naturally, then Brady couldn't have lied.

At all.

So your entire case falls apart the MOMENT that science proves that the balls could have naturally been deflated.

[southwest1]

No lawyer in the world would ever tell their client to hand over their phone.

Tell me, did this investigation have any leaks at all?

If the answer is yes , why would Brady ever hand his phone over?

Tell me VL is Brady being audited by the IRS? Is he being indicted by the Dept. Of Justice along with evidence from the DEA that Tom Brady is a known drug smuggler/dealer? Is ICE investigating him for hiring illegal immigrants to raise his kids or run his household? Is Brady illegally engaged in a human trafficking ring across several state lines & foreign borders? If the answer is no, then I fail to see what handing over text messages will do or how they will harm Brady in the longrun over a minor 4 game appeal. 

[Gramz]

Here's the part that you somehow don't seem to understand :

It's very, very simple.

If science proves that the balls deflated naturally, then Brady couldn't have lied.

At all.

So your entire case falls apart the MOMENT that science proves that the balls could have naturally been deflated.

Oh he could have still lied... good grief, and it's more probable than not that he did.

[southwest1]

Here's the part that you somehow don't seem to understand :

It's very, very simple.

If science proves that the balls deflated naturally, then Brady couldn't have lied.

At all.

So your entire case falls apart the MOMENT that science proves that the balls could have naturally been deflated.

Like I said in another post previously, you can't have it both ways. Depleted air pressure did not account for NE's 45-7 AFC CHampionship Game victory, but the wrong gauge was used to measure meaningless air in our Foxboro footballs? Science proves Brady couldn't have lied really? Tommy doesn't even know if he lied or cheated for crying out loud. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Yes he is so Keesler can call him as a witness and grill him on his bogus report, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/22/ted-wells-will-attend-at-brady-appeal-hearing/

 

So, Wells has to defend himself.  Here's a list of his previous defenses-

 

I am certain he and the many resources at Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP  have gone over their own data and scrutinized the so called reports that allegedly refute his. He knows his own reputation is at stake here and will not relinquish it without a vigorous fight and some punching back, in lawyers type terms...

[ViriLudant]

Oh he could have still lied... good grief, and it's more probable than not that he did.

How do you not understand this cold, hard logic?

If the footballs deflated naturally, as has been proven by various scientific institutions, how can Brady have lied ?

If no human agent deflated the balls, how could Brady have lied?

And to take this further logically , if Brady HAD instructed the balls to be deflated, their PSI would have been much lower than reported . If they had been around 12.5, then lowered artificially, the weather/temperature would have lowered them even further . Not balls that resulted within the Ideal Gas Laws, as proven by various scientists.

[ViriLudant]

Like I said in another post previously, you can't have it both ways. Depleted air pressure did not account for NE's 45-7 AFC CHampionship Game victory, but the wrong gauge was used to measure meaningless air in our Foxboro footballs? Science proves Brady couldn't have lied really? Tommy doesn't even know if he lied or cheated for crying out loud.

I'm done talking with you. The fact that you can't even understand my argument makes this a practice in futility. I see why GoPats left this place.

[southwest1]

What if there were no texts that were relevant? What would the point be?

That's not Tommy's determination to make VL. Generally, full compliance will lead to a process of elimination 1 way or another. Translation: It's not a request & if the messages bare out non relevancy, the investigation will prove that VL. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Here's the part that you somehow don't seem to understand :

It's very, very simple.

If science proves that the balls deflated naturally, then Brady couldn't have lied.

At all.

So your entire case falls apart the MOMENT that science proves that the balls could have naturally been deflated.

 

Here's the deal, You don't know the answer to that until Ted Wells, (with the resources of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP) and Expionent square off versus Jeffery Kressler ans AEI tomorrow.  Reputations are at stake and I'm sure both sides are thinking of defending their data while poking holes in the other-

 

The work of scientific consultants is only as good as the directions they receive from the persons who have retained their services. It’s one thing to say, “Hey, look into this and tell us what you find.” It’s quite another to say, “Hey, I need you to come to this specific conclusion. Can you do it?”

[Bad Morty]

It's like when a report came out saying "one football was 2PSI under and many were found to be just a tick or two under." VL posted at least 5 times that "ALL" the footballs , other than the one the Colts had on their sidelines , were just a tick under.

Yes this did prove to be incorrect. 3 of the Pats balls were over where they should have been and the other 8 were just a tick under.

[Gramz]

How do you not understand this cold, hard logic?

If the footballs deflated naturally, as has been proven by various scientific institutions, how can Brady have lied ?

How do you not understand that when someone is innocent, they LOUDLY proclaim this, and vehemently deny wrongdoing, instead of laughing it off, claiming sour grapes, and so on.

[Bad Morty]

How do you not understand that when someone is innocent, they LOUDLY proclaim this, and vehemently deny wrongdoing, instead of laughing it off, claiming sour grapes, and so on.

Fortunately, in America we don't convict people based on body language....

[pgt_rob]

Fortunately, in America we don't convict people based on body language....

 

They do for probable cause and that's what this is.

[southwest1]

I'm done talking with you. The fact that you can't even understand my argument makes this a practice in futility. I see why GoPats left this place.

You're entitled to leave, stay, or depart from this forum forever. That's entirely your prerogative. My differences of interpretation with you have nothing to do with GP's absence at all. He'll be welcomed back with open arms whenever he decides to make his triumphant return. 

 

I understand your argument perfectly fine VL. I just don't subscribe to the same conclusions you do that's all. You'll be back once the dust settles on deflate gate. 

 

One article provided by you doesn't not equal a Brady acquittal. If Brady doesn't get his suspension overturned in full, will you still cry from the rooftops "It's a witch hunt!" or will you finally accept it & just move on? 

 

If SW1 is wrong, I will own it, but what if VL is wrong, that's the real question isn't it? Hmmm...

 

"The fact that you can't even understand my argument makes this a practice in futility."

 

In other words, since I don't blindly think Brady walks on water & has been railroaded from the beginning, I'm totally unreasonable & a complete caboose hole huh? Good to know VL. You'll pardon me if I don't shed a tear. Thanks. 

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

I see that SW's understanding of the whole situation is still lacking.

Tell me, SW, what your take is on the whole scientific community discrediting the Wells report.

Most of them have said that the amount of air should not have been missing from just the Patriots

[dw49]

SW is the one bringing up the cell phone, not me.

 

I guess bottom line is we have beaten this thing to death . I think we all need got just chill and see how it turns out. I have a feeling that we will never have anything definitive as to what went down.