How bad will the Eagles be?

[amfootball]

We'll probably never see Bradford/Foles the same way, but I stand by my opinion that he's a better QB. 

 

Look at what teams give up to move up in the first round of the draft. The picks for Bradford aren't that much. And if they didn't want Foles -- which they didn't, they'd rather have Sanchez, it seems -- then he's essentially a throw in. I'm not saying they win the trade, I'm saying I think they got a better QB, and that was obviously the objective. Agree or not, Chip Kelly obviously thinks Bradford is better than Foles. That's the thinking; it's not hard to see.

 

Also, the scattershot criticism is funny to me. On one hand, "he's getting rid of guys who fit his system," but on the other hand, "he thinks his system is the only thing that matters and he doesn't need talent!" How can we tell Chip Kelly who fits his system and who doesn't? And if he's gotten rid of two so-called system fits in McCoy (overpriced) and Foles (overrated), then is he really just concerned about running his system? Seems to me that he's concerned with talent acquisition and cap management.

 

Losing Maclin is the only real loss, IMO. McCoy for Alonso is dependent on Alonso's health, but long-term, it's a no-brainer, and even right now, you can replace RB production without too much trouble. Especially with a good offensive line. It's like the Cowboys letting Murray test the market. Also, they drafted Matthews and Huff last year, and can tap the well again. Maclin is really good, but we knew last year that they had no desire to pay big money to a WR. I think they'll be fine there, plus they have two good TEs. So it's not true that they have no RBs and no receiving threats. As of today, they're about as good at skill positions as the Pats, minus Gronk.

 

And of course, if Bradford can't last the year -- or even the preseason -- then this is a bust. It's a gamble, but I get it. There's nothing radical about it. He's not violating any fundamentals, and I'm surprised to see a Pats fan say something like that. You guys can have the Patriot Way, but there's no patience for the Chip Kelly Way? In reality, they have a great offensive line, they improved their defense -- they might have the best ILB tandem in the league -- and there's still the draft and several more chances in free agency. And their cap this year and year to year is in good shape (that's before they cut Ryans, which is likely to happen). 

I am not sure why you are so defensive on this. It is fine if you think these are solid moves that may play out in the end. You could be right. But as you said, his team regressed in year two and that was after he let his most dynamic offensive player in Jackson go without anything in return. That is just bad football no matter how you slice it. And as you say, IF Bradford can stay healthy then maybe this ends up being just fine but that is a big gamble.

 

Not sure what my fandom has to do with any of this. Belichick has proven his system over 15 years building the most successful franchise in the history of football. But it is not like he was not heavily criticized along the way especially early on when he sat his franchise QB in Bledsoe in favor of a sixth round pick in Brady.

 

I am willing to wait and see if this thing works out for Kelly. But that does not preclude questioning his moves along way.

[Superman]

I am not sure why you are so defensive on this. It is fine if you think these are solid moves that may play out in the end. You could be right. But as you said, his team regressed in year two and that was after he let his most dynamic offensive player in Jackson go without anything in return. That is just bad football no matter how you slice it. And as you say, IF Bradford can stay healthy then maybe this ends up being just fine but that is a big gamble.

Not sure what my fandom has to do with any of this. Belichick has proven his system over 15 years building the most successful franchise in the history of football. But it is not like he was not heavily criticized along the way especially early on when he sat his franchise QB in Bledsoe in favor of a sixth round pick in Brady.

I am willing to wait and see if this thing works out for Kelly. But that does not preclude questioning his moves along way.

I'm not defensive. I just disagree with the popular opinion.

The Eagles regressing isn't because they cut Jackson. Their receivers played well.

And it's not about your fandom. It's about a team taking a replacement cost approach. When the Pats cut Lawyer Milloy, Belichick was a one time champ who caught lightning in a bottle, whose team had regressed and missed the playoffs. Now, he's a long time success who has earned the benefit of the doubt, but that's been built up over a long time. At one point, everyone second guessed him, too.

If you don't want to talk about this anymore, cool. But I'm not defensive. I just think everyone is being silly.

[amfootball]

I'm not defensive. I just disagree with the popular opinion.

The Eagles regressing isn't because they cut Jackson. Their receivers played well.

And it's not about your fandom. It's about a team taking a replacement cost approach. When the Pats cut Lawyer Milloy, Belichick was a one time champ who caught lightning in a bottle, whose team had regressed and missed the playoffs. Now, he's a long time success who has earned the benefit of the doubt, but that's been built up over a long time. At one point, everyone second guessed him, too.

If you don't want to talk about this anymore, cool. But I'm not defensive. I just think everyone is being silly.

I have no issue discussing it. It is fine if you hold the contrarian position. That actually makes these debates fun. Like I said, I am fine with seeing this play out. I disagree that their receivers played well. They were good but would have been better with Jackson especially when they had to play Seattle late in the season to try to secure a post-season birth and also vs the Redskins when Jackson came back to haunt them. At one point they were 10-4 and still ended up missing the playoffs which is hard to do so it is not like they were a complete bust. They folded down the stretch which can happen. It also did not help that their starting QB went down and missed several games.

 

I agree about Bill. He has been second guessed but he has proven his formula if you will. I still don't like it at times. lol.

[pacolts56]

There's not a lot of analysis there, IMO. Just talking points.

Chip Kelly's offense isn't gimmicky. It's a pro style offense, just up tempo. They run some read option, but that's not a big part of their offense, and having Bradford and Sanchez should signal that they aren't relying on it very heavily. I don't think they're trying to surprise defensive coordinators. I think they want to have a complete offense.

I'm not that interested in talking about team chemistry. We're not in the locker room and can't really speak to that. But winning cures all ills, and losing exacerbates them. If they win, team chemistry won't be an issue. It's funny how that's always the bottom line -- just win.

To the bolded, that's kind of what people were saying about Pete Carroll and the Seahawks a couple years ago. "$26m for Matt Flynn?? Pete Carroll is an amateur and should go back to college where he belongs."

We'll have to wait and see....its hard to analyze a new QB and RB, both of whom can't seem to stay off the IR, and who knows who that winds up taking Maclin's targets.

But giving front office novice Kelly the full authority he has, which Pete Carroll doesn't have (or is John Schneider just his poodle?) is IMO, high-risk on Lurie's part. On the other hand...Lurie won't need to look far to lay the blame.

But as you said "let him build it"...which he been given absolute authority to do.

I'm just trying to correlate the word "build" with IR regulars like Sam Bradford and Ryan Mathews and it doesn't quite jive.

[Superman]

We'll have to wait and see....its hard to analyze a new QB and RB, both of whom can't seem to stay off the IR, and who knows who that winds up taking Maclin's targets.

But giving front office novice Kelly the full authority he has, which Pete Carroll doesn't have (or is John Schneider just his poodle?) is IMO, high-risk on Lurie's part. On the other hand...Lurie won't need to look far to lay the blame.

But as you said "let him build it"...which he been given absolute authority to do.

I'm just trying to correlate the word "build" with IR regulars like Sam Bradford and Ryan Mathews and it doesn't quite jive.

 

Maclin's targets will find a home, no problem. The injury risk is the real question. 

 

Pete Carroll shares control with Schneider. He's a major player in every personnel decision. I think he was a major factor in hiring Schneider, as a matter of fact.

[Superman]

I have no issue discussing it. It is fine if you hold the contrarian position. That actually makes these debates fun. Like I said, I am fine with seeing this play out. I disagree that their receivers played well. They were good but would have been better with Jackson especially when they had to play Seattle late in the season to try to secure a post-season birth and also vs the Redskins when Jackson came back to haunt them. At one point they were 10-4 and still ended up missing the playoffs which is hard to do so it is not like they were a complete bust. They folded down the stretch which can happen. It also did not help that their starting QB went down and missed several games.

 

I agree about Bill. He has been second guessed but he has proven his formula if you will. I still don't like it at times. lol.

 

Jordan Matthews as a rookie with 10 starts pretty much equaled Jeremy Maclin's best years, prior to 2014. Not a shot at Maclin, but I'm a big Matthews fan. If I had to choose between the two, I'm going Matthews all the way. Not to mention the money. I also like Josh Huff and Trey Burton.

 

This year's draft is absolutely LOADED with WRs and RBs, and in recent years, rookies have performed well in those positions. Not that McCoy isn't special, but his production won't be hard to replace. And not that Maclin isn't a good player, but they offered him $9m/year -- fair offer, IMO -- and he took $11m from a WR starved team. 

 

I'm not meaning to be a Chip Kelly defender. I have no allegiances to him. Trent Dilfer call him a genius six months ago, and I thought that was the dumbest thing Trent Dilfer's ever said. I just see his moves as 1) liking Bradford over Foles, which I agree with, and 2) using a replacement cost approach with expensive players at non-critical positions.

[LordHelpOurColts]

When you get rid of your three best offensive players, you don't know what you are doing.

[pacolts56]

Maclin's targets will find a home, no problem. The injury risk is the real question.

Pete Carroll shares control with Schneider. He's a major player in every personnel decision. I think he was a major factor in hiring Schneider, as a matter of fact.

Fair enough....Carroll has earned his measure of authority, and has taken his share of hard lessons in his two NFL HC stints.

We'll let the Eagles thing play out under Kelly. I think they're headed for big trouble.

[BOTT]

When you get rid of your three best offensive players, you don't know what you are doing.

Their best offensive player is Jason Peters

[amfootball]

Jordan Matthews as a rookie with 10 starts pretty much equaled Jeremy Maclin's best years, prior to 2014. Not a shot at Maclin, but I'm a big Matthews fan. If I had to choose between the two, I'm going Matthews all the way. Not to mention the money. I also like Josh Huff and Trey Burton.

 

This year's draft is absolutely LOADED with WRs and RBs, and in recent years, rookies have performed well in those positions. Not that McCoy isn't special, but his production won't be hard to replace. And not that Maclin isn't a good player, but they offered him $9m/year -- fair offer, IMO -- and he took $11m from a WR starved team. 

 

I'm not meaning to be a Chip Kelly defender. I have no allegiances to him. Trent Dilfer call him a genius six months ago, and I thought that was the dumbest thing Trent Dilfer's ever said. I just see his moves as 1) liking Bradford over Foles, which I agree with, and 2) using a replacement cost approach with expensive players at non-critical positions.

You consider WR a non-critical position?

[Superman]

You consider WR a non-critical position?

 

Maybe not non-critical. Secondary priority, though. QB, pass rusher, corner, LT... that's first priority. Others, like DT, WR, ILB, S, if you have an elite guy, you want to keep them almost no matter what. If you have a really good guy, you'll keep them at a reasonable price, maybe a little bit above your ideal, but everybody has a break point. I think letting Maclin go for $11m is defensible. 

 

WR is a position where value above replacement is a big deal. Why pay Maclin $11m when (presumably) you can get the same production out of the guys you have, and maybe a couple cheap replacement level players? 

[amfootball]

Maybe not non-critical. Secondary priority, though. QB, pass rusher, corner, LT... that's first priority. Others, like DT, WR, ILB, S, if you have an elite guy, you want to keep them almost no matter what. If you have a really good guy, you'll keep them at a reasonable price, maybe a little bit above your ideal, but everybody has a break point. I think letting Maclin go for $11m is defensible. 

 

WR is a position where value above replacement is a big deal. Why pay Maclin $11m when (presumably) you can get the same production out of the guys you have, and maybe a couple cheap replacement level players? 

Jackson was elite and they got nothing for him.

[Dustin]

Their best offensive player is Jason Peters

 

Their second best is Evan Mathis. 

[Dustin]

Now that I think about it, their 3rd best offensive player is probably Lane Johnson lol

[Superman]

Now that I think about it, their 3rd best offensive player is probably Lane Johnson lol

 

And depending on how you rate Bradford v Foles, their 4th best probably got better.

[Superman]

Jackson was elite and they got nothing for him.

 

Another disagreement. Jackson is overrated, IMO. I felt that way when they gave him $10m/year.

 

They probably could have traded him, though.

[amfootball]

Another disagreement. Jackson is overrated, IMO. I felt that way when they gave him $10m/year.

 

They probably could have traded him, though.

lol. He was not overrated. He was a great receiver for them and a weapon in the return game.

[Superman]

lol. He was not overrated. He was a great receiver for them and a weapon in the return game.

 

He was/is a one note receiver with a limited route tree and prohibitive size. When they extended him, his career high was 62 catches. His catch:target ratio was abysmal. He dropped 9 passes the year before his extension. Overrated. Basically a twin to Mike Wallace.

 

I prefer Maclin to Desean Jackson, and it's not even close. 

 

DJ was an electric return man. But that's not worth $10m/year.

[amfootball]

He was/is a one note receiver with a limited route tree and prohibitive size. When they extended him, his career high was 62 catches. His catch:target ratio was abysmal. He dropped 9 passes the year before his extension. Overrated. Basically a twin to Mike Wallace.

 

I prefer Maclin to Desean Jackson, and it's not even close. 

 

DJ was an electric return man. But that's not worth $10m/year.

Well they have neither one of them anymore.

[Superman]

Well they have neither one of them anymore.

 

Kind of my point. If they wouldn't give Maclin $11m/year, it's not even a question that they didn't want to keep paying DJ $10m/year.

[amfootball]

Kind of my point. If they wouldn't give Maclin $11m/year, it's not even a question that they didn't want to keep paying DJ $10m/year.

I don't think Jackson was let go because of that. It is clear they had some off-field issues with him and his disposition. His production justified his salary.

[amfootball]

Kind of my point. If they wouldn't give Maclin $11m/year, it's not even a question that they didn't want to keep paying DJ $10m/year.

Well, according to Kelly, Bradford is the guy. He has no plans to try to move up and get Mariota, http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20150312_Chip_Kelly_says_Bradford_is_no_trade_chip.html

[chad72]

Everything hinges on Bradford's health. If he is healthy, with Demarco Murray, the Eagles will challenge for the NFC East. Beyond winning the division, I do not expect them to overachieve any more than that.

[Dustin]

The #Eagles are working to trade G Evan Mathis, source said. More craziness.

[wig]

I am not sure why you are so defensive on this. It is fine if you think these are solid moves that may play out in the end. You could be right. But as you said, his team regressed in year two and that was after he let his most dynamic offensive player in Jackson go without anything in return. That is just bad football no matter how you slice it. And as you say, IF Bradford can stay healthy then maybe this ends up being just fine but that is a big gamble.

 

Not sure what my fandom has to do with any of this. Belichick has proven his system over 15 years building the most successful franchise in the history of football. But it is not like he was not heavily criticized along the way especially early on when he sat his franchise QB in Bledsoe in favor of a sixth round pick in Brady.

 

I am willing to wait and see if this thing works out for Kelly. But that does not preclude questioning his moves along way.

 

How does having the same record equate to regression?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Well, according to Kelly, Bradford is the guy. He has no plans to try to move up and get Mariota, http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20150312_Chip_Kelly_says_Bradford_is_no_trade_chip.html

 

He has'nt played a full season in many years & Foles was alot cheaper & at this point better this is a message board poster move a train wreck .

This will be the new team bus .

[Superman]

The #Eagles are working to trade G Evan Mathis, source said. More craziness.

 

Okay, now THAT's crazy. But Mathis was upset about his contract last year, so that might be why.

 

I hope we're on the phone. Edit: Never mind, I didn't realize he's 33. For whatever reason, I had him at like 29 or something. I'll pass.

[Superman]

How does having the same record equate to regression?

 

Regression was my word. I don't think they were as good. Record was the same, that doesn't mean they didn't take a little step back. They certainly didn't finish strong.

[amfootball]

Okay, now THAT's crazy. But Mathis was upset about his contract last year, so that might be why.

 

I hope we're on the phone. Edit: Never mind, I didn't realize he's 33. For whatever reason, I had him at like 29 or something. I'll pass.

This is getting stranger by the minute ... why get Murray and pay him that dough when it is plug and play O? I get that he wanted to go there but I thought the whole point of trading McCoy was to off-load his salary?

[wig]

This is getting stranger by the minute ... why get Murray and pay him that dough when it is plug and play O? I get that he wanted to go there but I thought the whole point of trading McCoy was to off-load his salary?

 

Because they got a stud LB and RB for the same cost?  How is that a bad move?

[Superman]

This is getting stranger by the minute ... why get Murray and pay him that dough when it is plug and play O? I get that he wanted to go there but I thought the whole point of trading McCoy was to off-load his salary?

 

It's still less than McCoy. But yeah, I didn't expect them to give Murray $8m/year. 

[DougDew]

I think the issue with Shady and Djax was personality.   Skill wise, replacing Shady with Murray is a wash, IMO.

[Gavin]

Im expecting Grigson to enquire about Mathis......A talent like his comes available then ya just have to but I don't expect anything to come of it......I don't know what Kellys contract looks like or if there is a such thing as a guaranteed x # of years in his deal (if possible) but Im telling ya right now his days are numbered and that number might just be 1

[NewColtsFan]

I don't expect the Eagles to be bad at all.

 

I think there's been great over-reaction to Kelly.    I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt.   Way too much Prisoner of the Moment reaction here for my comfort level.

 

I think adding both Murray AND Mathews is pretty impressive, actually....

 

We'll see things are after free agency and the draft....

[Superman]

Im expecting Grigson to enquire about Mathis......A talent like his comes available then ya just have to but I don't expect anything to come of it......I don't know what Kellys contract looks like or if there is a such thing as a guaranteed x # of years in his deal (if possible) but Im telling ya right now his days are numbered and that number might just be 1

 

There is little doubt in my mind that Chip Kelly's contract is 100% guaranteed, with no offset language. He turned the Eagles down at first, and they came back three weeks later on their knees. He's probably one of the five highest paid coaches in the NFL, definitely top ten. And he was given virtual autonomy over the roster. His superiors aren't panicking like everyone else is. They're letting him do the job he's being paid to do.

[John Dee]

Giving Ryan Mathews and D Murraly guaranteed dough is straight up insane.   And Bringing in Bradford?    

 

Chip K is really pushing the envelope here.        Talent wins in the NFL, not systems.       Not even close.     Barry Switzer could come back and get hired somewhere and run the triple option and would win IF he had the horses.  

 

I don't get it.   I really don't.    they let Macklin, DJ, Shady, Henny, and several others go ...   to bring in ...   who again?  A MASH unit?   this will be incredibly entertaining to watch from a far.   

 

I actually think this Murray signing was a straight up panic mode move by the "Front Office"...  AKA Chip Kelly ..    to try and calm everyone down.  

 

And player comments who are leaving this team are not flattering.        Oh well...    I guess it could be worse in Indy?   Naaa..   we still got Luck.  

[jvan1973]

There is little doubt in my mind that Chip Kelly's contract is 100% guaranteed, with no offset language. He turned the Eagles down at first, and they came back three weeks later on their knees. He's probably one of the five highest paid coaches in the NFL, definitely top ten. And he was given virtual autonomy over the roster. His superiors aren't panicking like everyone else is. They're letting him do the job he's being paid to do.

Aren't most HCing jobs fully guaranteed?

[Superman]

Aren't most HCing jobs fully guaranteed?

 

Not sure. Some of them have options.

 

Here are the numbers: http://coacheshotseat.com/NFLCoachesSalaries.htm

 

After his new deal, Bruce Arians makes more than Chuck Pagano.

[John Dee]

Chip can be the HIGHEST paid coach in the NFL.       and if he goes 4-12 this season after all the "questionable" moves he has made this offseason.    I think it is HIGHLY debateable whether he gets another chance.    He throws another losing season in the mix...    He will be coaching somewhere in the PAC or SEC.         

 

He is on watch.. .  don't kid yourself.     "autonamy"  only means it is easier to get your butt fired faster.

 

I think he wan't his buyout....      heheheeeee      it won't be long.

 

There is little doubt in my mind that Chip Kelly's contract is 100% guaranteed, with no offset language. He turned the Eagles down at first, and they came back three weeks later on their knees. He's probably one of the five highest paid coaches in the NFL, definitely top ten. And he was given virtual autonomy over the roster. His superiors aren't panicking like everyone else is. They're letting him do the job he's being paid to do.

[Superman]

Chip can be the HIGHEST paid coach in the NFL.       and if he goes 4-12 this season after all the "questionable" moves he has made this offseason.    I think it is HIGHLY debateable whether he gets another chance.    He throws another losing season in the mix...    He will be coaching somewhere in the PAC or SEC.         

 

He is on watch.. .  don't kid yourself.     "autonamy"  only means it is easier to get your butt fired faster.

 

I think he wan't his buyout....      heheheeeee      it won't be long.

 

Well, understand something. If he signed for five years at $7m/year, and they fire him after three, they still owe him $14m on his way out the door. And when they hired him, they had already missed on two prospects, and everyone else was gone, and he had all the leverage. So I doubt that the $7m/year that they'd still owe him would be offset by whatever he makes at his new stop.

 

And understand something else. If he does get fired, there will be no shortage of college AD's pestering him to come run their football program. Not only does he have autonomy, but he has no incentive to play it safe. It's his show, and he has however many fallback plans as he wants.

 

His superiors aren't watching all the finger pointing on Twitter. He'll be judged on how the Eagles perform come September and January, not the general mood regarding his so-called "questionable" moves in free agency. Just like if he played it safe and the Eagles finished at 4-12, he'd be on his way out. How they get there -- whether it's 4-12 or 12-4 -- isn't going to matter. It's about whether they get there. And none of us can know that in March.

 

Lots of prognosticating. I feel like I've seen this somewhere before...