Did Today's Game Save Caldwell's Job? [Merge]

[everybodysgotone]

We are 12-0, 0-12, no matter how we played today that is deplorable for the Colts.Caldwell should be history.

corrected for subliminal typo

[Armageddonouttahere]

Yes NE secondary ins't that great, but to give up 24 pts to the Colts...and Bill never...ever...ever takes his foot off anything.

That's why Brad Hoyer was under center for the 4th qtr.....................

[GoColts8818]

No, we still lost didn't we. You can't have a season this bad and get away with it.

oddly enough he might be able to if he fires his staff and they chalk a lot of the loses up to not having Peyton Manning.

[Armageddonouttahere]

The season Brady missed and the Pats still got to the playoffs proves it isn't the QB that makes the difference in New England. Bill Belichek is a coach on a level with the greatest.

As mentioned they missed the playoffs but they did finish 11-5.

That says a lot about Belicheck but it says even more about the organization. Caldwell should go, he's not up to it and never was. But the Polians are the people who are really responsible (Irsay has no clue). To really cut out the cancer the Polians need to be removed. They won't be (Irsay has no clue) and Caldwell will be the scapegoat.

Unfortunately no serious head coach will come here while Polian(s) are in place.

[CR91]

Hasn't Peyton been there to make those adjustments all season?

who knows the pats better then peyton

[Thewholefnshow28]

To me it actually makes Caldwell look worse. You look at how Painter played against the Panthers and how Dan did against the Pats and it is night and day. If they were making a move at QB why not do it during the bye week, give Dan almost two weeks to prepare for the Panthers, and then he would have a game under his belt going into New England.

Seeing the offense actually move and make plays just leaves you scratching your head when you think what did the coaching staff see in Painter during the preseason and over the stretch when Dan was signed again.

After listening to Polian this whole time though the only way Caldwell will be fired is if we go 0-16.

[LUVTHESHOE]

, Lets just hope it takes a little more than that. The score is very,very far from the way the Colts played. I saw no change. other then our record 0-12

[wercolts]

I wouldn't be so sure. A good effort was negated by poor coaching as much in this game as I've seen all year. The 3rd and goal TO that destroyed the rhythm of that drive, a run on 3rd and 14 when your per attempt yardage was horrible, playing what looked like prevent to end the half and no sign that a defensive play was ever called with pressuring Brady in mind, especially on the first series in the 3rd quarter. Seemed to me like the players came to at least get in a fight and the coaches didn't.

[dn4192]

I wouldn't be so sure. A good effort was negated by poor coaching as much in this game as I've seen all year. The 3rd and goal TO that destroyed the rhythm of that drive, a run on 3rd and 14 when your per attempt yardage was horrible, playing what looked like prevent to end the half and no sign that a defensive play was ever called with pressuring Brady in mind, especially on the first series in the 3rd quarter. Seemed to me like the players came to at least get in a fight and the coaches didn't.

Coaches make bad calls all the time, go ask Atlanta and Dallas about their coaching decision making process that have cost their teams games.

[billpolianx]

but bill polian will say he is vindicated by not firing caldwell because the team showed great improvement against an elite team

[scorptile]

amazing what the I formation does when you actually use it instead of a single back set huh. ive been screaming for 3 years to use this formation and they only start using it after they pull painter as starter? i knew caldwell hated painter but didnt know he would go to great lengths to make him fail by not adjusting the offensive formation to use painters strengths.

[JCPatriot]

amazing what the I formation does when you actually use it instead of a single back set huh. ive been screaming for 3 years to use this formation and they only start using it after they pull painter as starter? i knew caldwell hated painter but didnt know he would go to great lengths to make him fail by not adjusting the offensive formation to use painters strengths.

They're been trying to use the I formation all season; they just keep losing fullbacks to injury.

[Case]

Dakich said it best today. There should be coaches getting fires simply for the reason that they didn't play Dan O earlier in the year. He also went on to say it was 31-3 and they let off the gas.

[dn4192]

Dakich said it best today. There should be coaches getting fires simply for the reason that they didn't play Dan O earlier in the year. He also went on to say it was 31-3 and they let off the gas.

Well if Dakich said it then it must be gold. Exactly what qualifications does Dan have in the NFL? I mean really if he was worth anything as a coach he would be coaching..not on WIBC.

[Jason_]

Well if Dakich said it then it must be gold. Exactly what qualifications does Dan have in the NFL? I mean really if he was worth anything as a coach he would be coaching..not on WIBC.

Who cares what his qualifications are? Who cares what Atlanta or Dallas's head coach did?

[Case]

Well if Dakich said it then it must be gold. Exactly what qualifications does Dan have in the NFL? I mean really if he was worth anything as a coach he would be coaching..not on WIBC.

I just said I agree with it. What qualifications do u have. None so I guess that means ur opinions aren't worth anything either. Poor argument bill. All I said was I agree and so does probably 90% of colts fans and media

[JoKeR]

Close doesn't cut it and 0-10 is enough evidence that Caldwell shouldn't be the Colts HC.

{•_•}

[Superman]

Let me propose a hypothetical question...

What if Bill Belicheck was our coach and Maning went down for the season. Would Bill go 0-12 at this point in the season, with this same exact team? If you say yes he would because of the personnel, then we should keep Caldwell because it's the fair thing to do. If you believe that no amount of coaching would make a difference with the team that we have.

I contend that with BB we would have definitely won a few games this season. He would have changes schemes to adjust to the strengths of our players. He wouldn't allow for a quarterback in his fist year as a starter to constantly throw for 40+ attempts. He would've found a way to win. If you also believe this, then it's fair to think that Caldwell is under performing and deserves to be fired.

To be a part of a team like the Colts, who have been a winning team for over a decade, you have to have high standards. You cannot be okay with losing every game because PM isn't playing.

That's a tough standard to hold someone to. Belichick is widely regarded as the best coach in the NFL. Saying you'd fire your coach because he's not as good as him is a little overboard. I think Caldwell needs to go, but it has nothing to do with what Belichick would do in the same circumstances.

[wheresmyrage]

I would have to agree with a lot of the people that caldwell SHOULD be fired. Not just for this year. Our team has taken a step down since Dungy left. Not saying that Dungy was the greatest thing to happen to the colts, because Peyton made the on-field play decisions, and our Defense kept getting worse. Caldwell was lucky when we went 14 - 0, he didn't have to really do anything.. Polian I believe made the decision to pull our starters, which I think was a huge mistake. and face it, our second Super-Bowl appearance was a joke because we were completely unprepared... Caldwell is a failure in my eyes, and cannot adjust to the situations that he should be adjusting to. Yes, we have one of the best QB's to play the game, but we should NOT be winless without him.

I think he should be fired, but cannot guarantee that it will actually happen.. Clyde Christansen is definately gone though, and should be.. And it gets old seeing him ignore Peyton on the sidelines..

Go Colts!

[dn4192]

Who cares what his qualifications are? Who cares what Atlanta or Dallas's head coach did?

Because since he is no more qualified in knowledge of the Colts or the NFL makes his opinion no more valueable then anyone here. Because both teams show that bad decision making can occur to all coaches.

[Flash7]

That's a tough standard to hold someone to. Belichick is widely regarded as the best coach in the NFL. Saying you'd fire your coach because he's not as good as him is a little overboard. I think Caldwell needs to go, but it has nothing to do with what Belichick would do in the same circumstances.

Superman, you're absolutely right. I went to the other extreme of the spectrum to prove a point that I think coaching matters a whole lot in football. I also think that we do have talent on this team and with a coach that is able to make adjustments and is not married to a specific scheme, we should have a few wins by now. I used BB becuase he's the obvious choice for a competent coach.

If you agree that if we had another coaching staff, we would have some wins by now, then we have answered the question posed in this thread. Caldwell has not saved his job and should be replaced.

[Superman]

Superman, you're absolutely right. I went to the other extreme of the spectrum to prove a point that I think coaching matters a whole lot in football. I also think that we do have talent on this team and with a coach that is able to make adjustments and is not married to a specific scheme, we should have a few wins by now. I used BB becuase he's the obvious choice for a competent coach.

If you agree that if we had another coaching staff, we would have some wins by now, then we have answered the question posed in this thread. Caldwell has not saved his job and should be replaced.

I think the real question to ask is whether Caldwell's job needed saving in the first place. In the eyes of many (probably most), he's gone already. But does Irsay feel that way. Does the front office? If the decision-makers weren't already committed to replacing him, then yesterday's game probably helped his chances of coming back. If they were already committed to keeping him, yesterday's game reinforced that commitment. If they were already committed to getting rid of him, then bottom line is that we lost and "coming close" in the fourth quarter doesn't matter.

The decision makers probably haven't made any decision to this point. If they were committed to getting rid of him, then they probably would have done so during the bye. They wouldn't have reached that decision after the last two weeks, in games that we've been more competitive in than the previous three or four weeks. We'll probably just have to wait and see.

[jskinnz]

who knows the pats better then peyton

So he doesn't know the rest of the league?

[deedub75]

When is Caldwell's contract up anyway? Anyone know?

[Flash7]

I think the real question to ask is whether Caldwell's job needed saving in the first place. In the eyes of many (probably most), he's gone already. But does Irsay feel that way. Does the front office? If the decision-makers weren't already committed to replacing him, then yesterday's game probably helped his chances of coming back. If they were already committed to keeping him, yesterday's game reinforced that commitment. If they were already committed to getting rid of him, then bottom line is that we lost and "coming close" in the fourth quarter doesn't matter.

The decision makers probably haven't made any decision to this point. If they were committed to getting rid of him, then they probably would have done so during the bye. They wouldn't have reached that decision after the last two weeks, in games that we've been more competitive in than the previous three or four weeks. We'll probably just have to wait and see.

What if the decision to keep Caldwell was tied to Manning's health? Since we're uncertain of Manning's health, the front office cannot make a decision yet on Caldwell. Here's why I think this might be a possibility.

If Manning returns healthy, he will run the offense and we will continue with the same highly productive offense that we've been running. We have already fired Coyer and have an interim defensive coordinator. The FO may decide that we have previously established winning ways and that we simply need to stay the course, but with better personnel and a few adjustments. These can be made with Caldwell becuase there are only a few adjustments to be made in the off season.

If however, we decide to go another direction with the QB position, it's logical that the new rookie QB may not pick up our old offensive system. At this time more larger changes will be needed. The FO may decide to address offensive and defensive changes and want to implement new systems, which may also result in coaching changes.

[LUVTHESHOE]

What if the decision to keep Caldwell was tied to Manning's health? Since we're uncertain of Manning's health, the front office cannot make a decision yet on Caldwell. Here's why I think this might be a possibility.

If Manning returns healthy, he will run the offense and we will continue with the same highly productive offense that we've been running. We have already fired Coyer and have an interim defensive coordinator. The FO may decide that we have previously established winning ways and that we simply need to stay the course, but with better personnel and a few adjustments. These can be made with Caldwell becuase there are only a few adjustments to be made in the off season.

If however, we decide to go another direction with the QB position, it's logical that the new rookie QB may not pick up our old offensive system. At this time more larger changes will be needed. The FO may decide to address offensive and defensive changes and want to implement new systems, which may also result in coaching changes.

How about this, the front office decides to let Manning play with a coach that can help Peyton, as OPPOSED TO ONE HE HAS TO CARRY.Peyton coming back will not make Caldwell a better coach.

[Jason_]

Because since he is no more qualified in knowledge of the Colts or the NFL makes his opinion no more valueable then anyone here. Because both teams show that bad decision making can occur to all coaches.

Nobody said the guy's opinion was more or less valuable than anyone here. You simply disagreed with the said opinion but you couldn't say that. Instead you have to cry about it and try to attack the guy's credibility. You can disagree with someone without being a baby about it. ;)

And yes, all coaches are prone to making a bad decision here or there, but the only one we here care about are the bad decisions our own coach makes...and he's been more prone than most to making bad decisions.

[LUVTHESHOE]

When is Caldwell's contract up anyway? Anyone know?

I think at seasons end, if not then, 2012 for sure.

[Flash7]

How about this, the front office decides to let Manning play with a coach that can help Peyton, as OPPOSED TO ONE HE HAS TO CARRY.Peyton coming back will not make Caldwell a better coach.

I agree with you. I did not state in my argument that Peyton coming back would make Caldwell a better coach. A new coach would pretty much do the same as Caldwell, which is let Manning run the show. It's been documented that he literally runs the offensive practives. Manning takes every snap and directs all of the players during these sessions. A new coach may be a better manager of time but may not come in and teach Manning how to run our offense. As for the defesne, I think a new head coach could improve our defense, but it just seems like Polian prefers the cover-2 and may decide to address personnel rather than the defensive system. My point is that the FO understands this and doesn't see a need for a change in the offense with Manning there, and therefore may not see a need for a new head coach. That doesn't mean that we will not see changes in the position coaches.

[Superman]

What if the decision to keep Caldwell was tied to Manning's health? Since we're uncertain of Manning's health, the front office cannot make a decision yet on Caldwell. Here's why I think this might be a possibility.

If Manning returns healthy, he will run the offense and we will continue with the same highly productive offense that we've been running. We have already fired Coyer and have an interim defensive coordinator. The FO may decide that we have previously established winning ways and that we simply need to stay the course, but with better personnel and a few adjustments. These can be made with Caldwell becuase there are only a few adjustments to be made in the off season.

If however, we decide to go another direction with the QB position, it's logical that the new rookie QB may not pick up our old offensive system. At this time more larger changes will be needed. The FO may decide to address offensive and defensive changes and want to implement new systems, which may also result in coaching changes.

I'm not as convinced as other people that Manning "runs the show" on offense. I know he has a lot more control than other quarterbacks do, and he's obviously the biggest factor in our success over the years. That's all the more reason for us to have a coaching staff that takes more responsibility for the success of the offense, because Manning isn't going to be around forever. Even if he comes back next season and is as good as before, he'll be 36 years old.

My issues with Caldwell have very little to do with the productivity of the offense this season. I'm much more concerned with his inability or unwillingness to compensate for the reduced offensive output -- which was predictable -- than with the lack of offense. The nonsense that we call a defense has to go, and since we literally did nothing different defensively yesterday than we did with Coyer in the first 11 games, I have to tack that to Caldwell as the head coach. We allow opposing quarterbacks to convert 72% of their passes for a league worst 109.2 rating. We allow 41% of passing attempts to go for touchdowns, worst in the league (to put that in perspective, that means a team can throw every down and never get stopped on third down against us). We've given up a league-worst 43 touchdowns (3.58 per game).

Let me ask this, because inquiring minds want to know: What good is a conservative defense that's designed not to give up big plays, when you still allow teams to score practically every time they touch the football?

To the staff's credit, we were awful on special teams coverage early in the season, and we've fixed that by 1) having Pat boom the ball into touchback territory every chance he gets, and 2) on the few we actually cover, we get to the ball faster, we stay in lanes, and we tackle better. But why can't we return a kick or a punt to save our lives? We're the only team with fewer than 10 kick returns over 20 yards. We have zero punt or kick returns of 40+ yards.

Let me ask this, because inquiring minds want to know: What does any of that have to do with Peyton Manning?

Our team has performed poorly in several areas, many of which have nothing to do with Manning's absence. We've employed a defensive scheme that effectively disengages our pass rush, which is the best part of our defense (how many other teams have two elite pass rushers?) The same scheme allows quarterbacks to convert nearly every pass they throw, and almost half of those for first downs. One simple change would improve our defense measurably, and here it is Week 13, and this scheme has survived a coordinator change, leading to another outstanding quarterbacking day against us. Peyton Manning doesn't play coverage. All we need to do is move our corners closer to the line of scrimmage, let them redirect receivers and throw off the timing, giving our pass rush that much longer to disrupt the quarterback, and not only will teams complete fewer passes against us, we might get a sack or a deflection every now and then. Our coaching staff refuses to make this change. I can't say why. I can say it has nothing to do with Peyton Manning.

So, all of that is my long-winded way of saying that Jim Caldwell's job performance can be judged independently of Manning's absence, and with his team currently 0-12, it makes zero sense that any decision-maker with the Colts would be wondering what would happen if Manning were on the field. It's not like we've been playing with only ten players on offense (or defense, or special teams). It sucks not having our hero, but we're the worst team in the league. Cam Cameron got one year in Miami, went 1-15, and got fired. No reason for Jim Caldwell to survive this season, not unless he starts making winning decisions and we put some Ws up these next four weeks. And even then, I still don't think he should survive.

[Bigponcho]

All this talk about firing caldwell, thats not enough, polians need to go aswell

[Blue Horseshoe]

All this talk about firing caldwell, thats not enough, polians need to go aswell

Bingo! Bill should just retire. His skills are in decline.

[dn4192]

Bingo! Bill should just retire. His skills are in decline.

Well he is in semi retirment, Chris is overseeing things with some help from Dad...

[GoColts8818]

Bingo! Bill should just retire. His skills are in decline.

yet he's coming off one of his best drafts in years...

One season even this bad isn't going to get Polian fired with his track record here. It will probably put him on notice though IE he better fix this thing by next year or he could lose his job then.

[GoColts!!]

I think at seasons end, if not then, 2012 for sure.

It ends after next season.

[billpolianx]

so according to some the colts have a coach who wouldn't get a job anywhere else in the nfl and a gm that nobody else wants even after daddy bill planted the rumor of interest in chris

[HungarianColtsFan]

Well...

IMO our last game has shown positive signs, but thats all. We've lost, and we are at 0-11.

Caldwell has proven last year what he can do with Peyton Manning (yes I know, in 2009 he reached SB), so there would be nothing to waiting for.

A team, like colts simply can't allow after 9 winning season such a horror unanswered.

I think since New Orleans tragedy Caldwell himself knows he is losing his job.