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How to stop the Pats?


3nk1du

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I can compare them on the deep ball. Hoyer is clearly better at it.

 

No he's not.  He's having one good year.  When he wins 3 super bowls and goes to 5 super bowls and takes his team to the playoffs every single season and wins multiple mvp's then let us know.  Until then it's a worthless stat.

 

I could care less about one season he's having where he'll he the back up to Johnny as soon as he messes up.

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No he's not. He's having one good year. When he wins 3 super bowls and goes to 5 super bowls and takes his team to the playoffs every single season and wins multiple mvp's then let us know. Until then it's a worthless stat.

I could care less about one season he's having where he'll he the back up to Johnny as soon as he messes up.

I'm comparing them on the deep ball. Hoyer is better at it. Get over it. Stats don't lie.

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Naw, is the better QB. And "Deep ball" ? Who cares? What's that done for Luck? It's not winning them super bowls with all his bombs he throws down field.

You must care since you were the one who was talking about how great Brady is with the deep ball when hes not. We colts fans are just trying to educate you.

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You must care since you were the one who was talking about how great Brady is with the deep ball when hes not. We colts fans are just trying to educate you.

 

Hard to educate anyone when you don't know football or anything outside Indiana.

 

And give Brady the weapons Luck has and he'd be far better than Luck.  Luck is a product of the Colts' system is all.  He doesn't make players around him better the way Brady does.  You give Luck the best receiving core in the NFL and he'll throw INT's.  You give Brady one of the worst receiving core's and he'll take you to the AFC title game every year and a chance to win the SB.

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Hard to educate anyone when you don't know football or anything outside Indiana.

 

And give Brady the weapons Luck has and he'd be far better than Luck.  Luck is a product of the Colts' system is all.  He doesn't make players around him better the way Brady does.  You give Luck the best receiving core in the NFL and he'll throw INT's.  You give Brady one of the worst receiving core's and he'll take you to the AFC title game every year and a chance to win the SB.

 

You professing to educate anyone on football is high comedy.  

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Luck and Peyton are good for fantasy stats.  But in the big game?  Naw.  They're throw that INT at the worst time.

 

Hard to educate anyone when you don't know football or anything outside Indiana.

 

And give Brady the weapons Luck has and he'd be far better than Luck.  Luck is a product of the Colts' system is all.  He doesn't make players around him better the way Brady does.  You give Luck the best receiving core in the NFL and he'll throw INT's.  You give Brady one of the worst receiving core's and he'll take you to the AFC title game every year and a chance to win the SB.

 

Naw, is the better QB.  And "Deep ball" ?  Who cares?  What's that done for Luck?  It's not winning them super bowls with all his bombs he throws down field.

You must have missed that one Chiefs game last year.

 

I don't think you realize how much of a homer you are being here. Ever hear of using stats to try and make a player sound better instead of trying to degrade another? Luck's int % is around average right now, and as a growing player, that will surely go down.

 

You've gotta be kidding me.. Glad Football isn't a team sport.

 

Not gonna lie though, even though Brady can't throw a deep ball, he's still pretty dang good.

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Colts fans should thank their lucky stars that organization surrounded Luck with as many weapons as Peyton has.

 

I'd love to see Luck and Peyton do with what Brady has with Brady's "weapons".

 

You mean like in 2010 when Peyton got the Colts into the playoffs with Blaire White as a starting WR? ;)

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Okay, say that then. It wasn't a down year, though. Despite not being quite right, it was the second best statistical year of his career, in many respects. 

 

And whether Moss was a half step slower or not -- I don't remember it that way, and I don't know how that can possibly be quantified -- 2009 Moss isn't that far behind 2007 Moss as a deep threat. 

lol. I did say it just not how you wanted me to say it. What else is new. He was coming off of ACL surgery. Not sure if more really needs to be said. He only threw for 28 TDs which was the same amount he threw in 02 and 04 and a huge drop off from the 50 he had in 2007. Of course just one year removed from ACL in 2010 he threw 36 Tds to just 4 picks (355 attempts without a pick record as well) and the only unanimous MVP. So yeah, 2009 was a down a year for him.

 

Moss was not getting the same separation in 2009 as the other two seasons.

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After reading through this, I have to ask, do people here think the Pats are a bad road team? I know they are close to unstoppable at home but they are not too shabby on the road either. We will need our best effort, a clean game and mentally up the task of a Bill B. coached team. I think we will be ready but home field won't mean a thing if we don't stay with this team early and play 60 minutes of consistent football. A great litmus test as we have not won against the good teams this year, 0-3 vs Denver, Philly, Pitt. I feel like this could be the game where we turn the corner and are no longer seen as second fiddle to NE and Denver.

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After reading through this, I have to ask, do people here think the Pats are a bad road team? I know they are close to unstoppable at home but they are not too shabby on the road either. We will need our best effort, a clean game and mentally up the task of a Bill B. coached team. I think we will be ready but home field won't mean a thing if we don't stay with this team early and play 60 minutes of consistent football. A great litmus test as we have not won against the good teams this year, 0-3 vs Denver, Philly, Pitt. I feel like this could be the game where we turn the corner and are no longer seen as second fiddle to NE and Denver.

 

According to some here.  It's all been a big lie and myth over the years.  The Pats are the most overrated team.  Gronk never gets touched, no one has ever been physical with him.  Brady can't take any pressure at all.

 

TY will run circles around the Patriots secondary.  The Colts have the best run game that can't be stopped.  Landry will knock out unconscious all the pats receivers.  The Cols D-line will be all over Brady all night.

 

Vonte Davis is the greatest corner in the NFL and Brady better not throw in his direction.

 

From reading these comments from Colts' fans I get the sense the Colts are 9-0 with a shut down D.  But they started the season 0-2 and got smoked by Pitt, even though Pitt just lost to the Jets.

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According to some here.  It's all been a big lie and myth over the years.  The Pats are the most overrated team.  Gronk never gets touched, no one has ever been physical with him.  Brady can't take any pressure at all.

 

TY will run circles around the Patriots secondary.  The Colts have the best run game that can't be stopped.  Landry will knock out unconscious all the pats receivers.  The Cols D-line will be all over Brady all night.

 

Vonte Davis is the greatest corner in the NFL and Brady better not throw in his direction.

 

From reading these comments from Colts' fans I get the sense the Colts are 9-0 with a shut down D.  But they started the season 0-2 and got smoked by Pitt, even though Pitt just lost to the Jets.

 

And you have not participated in the hyperbole as well?  According the Pats fans, the Lord has returned to earth in the form of Brady.

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Easy to talk when the Colts made sure to load Luck up with weapons.  lol  Take away TY and Wayne and give him Dobson and Thompkins.  Let's see Luck shine.  lol

You realize Luck's rookie year he had only Reggie Wayne, and TY was unproven, also Fleener was injured, then last season Reggie and Dwayne Allen was injured, and TY was the only guy.  Luck is one of those QB's that makes everyone around him better.  He can turn an average Joe into a Pro Bowl WR!

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You're not in any position to question anyone else.

 

But the Colts for years were a soft team.  Polian had to cry to the NFL after the Pats played real football and beat the Colts in some outdoor man's weather.  Polian was doing for Manning what Shula did for Marino.  Both Polian and Shula were on the rules committee.

 

But of course Colts fans loved Bob Sanders and now Landry.  Wasn't Bob Sanders nickname the "big boom man" or something like that?  lol  The hypocrisy is amazing.

 

And we all know if Landry knocks unconscious a patriots receiver the Colts fans will love that.

I would love that alot, as long as he could get back up and walk off the field under his own power!  Thats what's great about football!! lol

No Bob's nickname was never "big boom man" I don't know where you got that from.

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We know...

 

Brady throws them deep to Shane Vareen........a rb...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBI975kt8po

 

Luck is surrounded by top talent.

That is all I hear from Patriot fans...  IF Brady had the threats as Manning or Luck then he wouldve won X amount of more Super Bowls or have the records Manning has.  I mean really?  The Patriots are who they are and the same for the Colts.  That's like saying if Bob Sanders wouldve been healthier, or we had a rush defense, then we would've won more SB's.  It didn't work out that way!  And that's how the cookie crumbled!

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You guys are totally missing the point.  Just because it wasn't "bad weather" what you guys live in during the winter months, has no bearring that the conditions of the game last Sunday, didn't have some sort of effect.  Maybe not a huge effect but nonetheless perhaps influenced play, a little bit.  It was not clear sunny skies a high of 75 and no wind.  There was snow on the ground prior to the game, the wind was blowing, and it was 39 degrees, none of which are "ideal" conditions.  Even under ideal conditions the Patriots would still have won most likely.  That wasn't ever a point though.  Don't dig too deep!!  Another point was about home field advantage, which c'mon it doesn't take a genius to figure out teams play better at home.  If you would like to dispute that one, then why does the #1 and 2 seeds get a bye and "home field advantage" in the playoffs!

 

Both points were quite simple.  No need to debate about it.  Who cares if the Patriots beat the Broncos.  Patriots play in Indy come Sunday, I can assure you Tom Brady or Bill Belichek doesn't care what happend last week anymore.  They took care of business and now they're preping for the Colts.  You may want to start worrying about how the spectacular secondary is going deal with the countless weapons and the best offense in the NFL, while at Lucas Oil Stadium.  But you wouldn't be worried about that because home field doesn't mean anything!

 

On the contrary, I argued in a "NFL General" thread last week that the Colts should be pulling for the Patriots against the Broncos, since Indy had already lost to Denver and would lose that tie-breaker come seeding time. Getting HFA in the playoffs is huge. I don't want the Patriots to have to go to Denver or Indy in December. 

 

I think in all honesty you and Supes are the ones missing the point here. I made some sarcastic posts about the weather, which was no more than a "2" on a scale of 1-to-10 a week ago Sunday. Then I started getting the eye-rolling "Dear God" posts from you guys. 

 

In fairness, previous posts cite the weather as a factor in the kicking game (probably one instance), game strategy (which seems like a total stretch to me), and the Patriots deciding to defer on the opening kickoff (which they do almost every time they win the toss, indoors or out, bad weather or good). 

 

I'm not making that up. 

 

This is pointless...

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Hard to educate anyone when you don't know football or anything outside Indiana.

 

And give Brady the weapons Luck has and he'd be far better than Luck.  Luck is a product of the Colts' system is all.  He doesn't make players around him better the way Brady does.  You give Luck the best receiving core in the NFL and he'll throw INT's.  You give Brady one of the worst receiving core's and he'll take you to the AFC title game every year and a chance to win the SB.

What about Brady always having a great offensive line during their SB era.  Brady had enough time in the pocket to eat a ham sandwich, then call his wife and kids.  Seriously, Luck might have weapons but never has had the O-Line or time that Brady has had.  TBH, the line and Belichek is what makes Brady look so good.  You give any NFL quarterback 7-9 seconds in the pocket and any of them can check it down to a receiver coming back to the ball.

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On the contrary, I argued in a "NFL General" thread last week that the Colts should be pulling for the Patriots against the Broncos, since Indy had already lost to Denver and would lose that tie-breaker come seeding time. Getting HFA in the playoffs is huge. I don't want the Patriots to have to go to Denver or Indy in December. 

 

I think in all honesty you and Supes are the ones missing the point here. I made some sarcastic posts about the weather, which was no more than a "2" on a scale of 1-to-10 a week ago Sunday. Then I started getting the eye-rolling "Dear God" posts from you guys. 

 

In fairness, previous posts cite the weather as a factor in the kicking game (probably one instance), game strategy (which seems like a total stretch to me), and the Patriots deciding to defer on the opening kickoff (which they do almost every time they win the toss, indoors or out, bad weather or good). 

 

I'm not making that up. 

 

This is pointless...

 

The Colts are atrocious at covering TE's.  That's one of if not they're biggest weakness is stopping other team's TE's.

 

But some on here are convinced if you put Davis on Gronk then Gronk and the Pats' offense is shut down.  Yeah, you don't need to worry about LaFell, Tyms, Dobson, Edelman, Amendola, Wright.

 

The Broncos have a better defense than the Colts do with a better D-line, better LB's, and better secondary with Talib and Ward and couldn't stop the Pats.

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What about Brady always having a great offensive line during their SB era.  Brady had enough time in the pocket to eat a ham sandwich, then call his wife and kids.  Seriously, Luck might have weapons but never has had the O-Line or time that Brady has had.  TBH, the line and Belichek is what makes Brady look so good.  You give any NFL quarterback 7-9 seconds in the pocket and any of them can check it down to a receiver coming back to the ball.

 

You give Brady Luck's legs and the Pats wouldn't have invested so much in their O-line.

 

Brady is getting good protection now from his O-Line.  There's no real super stars there.

 

By the way, Brady makes his offense look better than what it is.  Luck doesn't.  Luck is an INT machine even with the best weapons.

 

And the Colts' D is going to make Brady look even better Sunday night.  Colts can not cover TE's.

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The Colts are atrocious at covering TE's.  That's one of if not they're biggest weakness is stopping other team's TE's.

 

But some on here are convinced if you put Davis on Gronk then Gronk and the Pats' offense is shut down.  Yeah, you don't need to worry about LaFell, Tyms, Dobson, Edelman, Amendola, Wright.

 

The Broncos have a better defense than the Colts do with a better D-line, better LB's, and better secondary with Talib and Ward and couldn't stop the Pats.

Yep were not too good at covering TE's, but I've said before I don't think the Patriots will win (any game for that matter) with only Brady throwing to Gronk.  Those WR's you named, (in the name of Richard Sherman) are mediocre, mediocre WR's!!  I don't believe Vontae Davis can totally shutdown Gronk, nor do I even care to see him try to cover him, but that doesn't mean Vontae can't contain him. 

 

Again, last week was last week, are you still celebrating the SB's the Pat's one in the early 2000's?  And parts of the Broncos Defense may be better, but other parts were better.  So say what you want, the Colts are not the Broncos and Week 11 is not Week 10, nor can you expect the same results!

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You give Brady Luck's legs and the Pats wouldn't have invested so much in their O-line.

 

Brady is getting good protection now from his O-Line.  There's no real super stars there.

 

By the way, Brady makes his offense look better than what it is.  Luck doesn't.  Luck is an INT machine even with the best weapons.

 

And the Colts' D is going to make Brady look even better Sunday night.

 

Even Pats fans are embarassed by you. 

 

1) No clue what you are talking about with giving Luck's legs to Brady.  Since that seems unlikely, not sure how that is relevant to anything.  Bu the idea that mobile QB's don't need to be protected as much is just funny.

 

2) The idea that Luck does not make those around him better is simply as wrong an argument that you have made and you have made a sea of foolish comments.

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You give Brady Luck's legs and the Pats wouldn't have invested so much in their O-line.

 

Brady is getting good protection now from his O-Line.  There's no real super stars there.

 

By the way, Brady makes his offense look better than what it is.  Luck doesn't.  Luck is an INT machine even with the best weapons.

 

And the Colts' D is going to make Brady look even better Sunday night.  Colts can not cover TE's.

There you go again, adding attributes to try and make the Pats/Brady even better!  That's not reality.  How about you take the AFC Pro Bowlers and put them in an Indianapolis Colts uniform and keep the Pats roster the same!  Who do you think would win?

 

Luck turned a 2-14 team into an 11-5 (winning the division).  How didn't Luck make his offense better?  Or look better, than what it is?  That's a complete turnaround!  Luck throws more INT's than he should.  I agree with that, but I also see plays were someone is tugging at him and he breaks loose and runs for 15 or slings it downfield for a gain of 30+, so I have learned to accept that.  Also Luck throws the football more than any other QB in the league.  Im pretty sure he always has.  That is a statement to say, Luck is an MVP, and carries his team alot.  Look how many 4th quarter comebacks he has (or his rookie season alone).

 

It's gonna be a sad day when Brady and Belichek retire (I hear rumors they will more than likely go at the same time).  Not that it's true but why would BB want a crap team?  Then all you truly will be able to do is reminesce of "what was"!  It's awesome the Colts totally rebuilt there team in 2 short years.  I highly doubt the Pats will be able to do that :)  Here in northern Indiana, there are alot of Bears fans and we  have a joke about Bears fans too.  Every one of them talk about the '85 Bears, and that is what you will be talking like in about 5 years.

 

The way I take it is your jealous of Indianapolis' QB's.  Don't think for a second Matt Hasselbeck couldn't come in and lead the team to the playoffs, its just Luck is so great and on a great team!

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Yep were not too good at covering TE's, but I've said before I don't think the Patriots will win (any game for that matter) with only Brady throwing to Gronk.  Those WR's you named, (in the name of Richard Sherman) are mediocre, mediocre WR's!!  I don't believe Vontae Davis can totally shutdown Gronk, nor do I even care to see him try to cover him, but that doesn't mean Vontae can't contain him. 

 

Again, last week was last week, are you still celebrating the SB's the Pat's one in the early 2000's?  And parts of the Broncos Defense may be better, but other parts were better.  So say what you want, the Colts are not the Broncos and Week 11 is not Week 10, nor can you expect the same results!

 

If the Pats have mediocre weapons how are they blowing out teams?  How did they put up 43 points on the Broncos?

 

And the only guy worth a damn in the Colts secondary is Davis.  Everyone else is easily exploitable.

 

And in which game this season did Brady only throw to Gronk?  I have no idea where you're getting this thing that Brady only throws to Gronk.  You don't know much about the Pats if you think that.

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According to some here.  It's all been a big lie and myth over the years.  The Pats are the most overrated team.  Gronk never gets touched, no one has ever been physical with him.  Brady can't take any pressure at all.

 

TY will run circles around the Patriots secondary.  The Colts have the best run game that can't be stopped.  Landry will knock out unconscious all the pats receivers.  The Cols D-line will be all over Brady all night.

 

Vonte Davis is the greatest corner in the NFL and Brady better not throw in his direction.

 

From reading these comments from Colts' fans I get the sense the Colts are 9-0 with a shut down D.  But they started the season 0-2 and got smoked by Pitt, even though Pitt just lost to the Jets.

 

And according to "others" here, the Patriots are unstoppable, their secondary is the greatest thing since sliced bread and will shut down every Colt WR and make them all complete non-factors, which will force Luck to throw to his marginally talented TEs and RBs.

 

 the Colt defense has no prayer at all of even slowing down Gronk nor any of the other unstoppable Patriot WRs because of how pitiful the Colt secondary is.  

 

Brady will obviously throw for 10 TDs and 800 yds on Sunday 

 

the Pat defense will either Sack or Intercept Luck on every Colt offensive snap.  

 

we're going to have to pump in excessive amounts of crowd noise just to keep the Patriots under 100 points

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If the Pats have mediocre weapons how are they blowing out teams?  How did they put up 43 points on the Broncos?

 

And the only guy worth a damn in the Colts secondary is Davis.  Everyone else is easily exploitable.

 

And in which game this season did Brady only throw to Gronk?  I have no idea where you're getting this thing that Brady only throws to Gronk.  You don't know much about the Pats if you think that.

 

And you don't know much about the Colts if you think that

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There you go again, adding attributes to try and make the Pats/Brady even better!  That's not reality.  How about you take the AFC Pro Bowlers and put them in an Indianapolis Colts uniform and keep the Pats roster the same!  Who do you think would win?

 

Luck turned a 2-14 team into an 11-5 (winning the division).  How didn't Luck make his offense better?  Or look better, than what it is?  That's a complete turnaround!  Luck throws more INT's than he should.  I agree with that, but I also see plays were someone is tugging at him and he breaks loose and runs for 15 or slings it downfield for a gain of 30+, so I have learned to accept that.  Also Luck throws the football more than any other QB in the league.  Im pretty sure he always has.  That is a statement to say, Luck is an MVP, and carries his team alot.  Look how many 4th quarter comebacks he has (or his rookie season alone).

 

It's gonna be a sad day when Brady and Belichek retire (I hear rumors they will more than likely go at the same time).  Not that it's true but why would BB want a crap team?  Then all you truly will be able to do is reminesce of "what was"!  It's awesome the Colts totally rebuilt there team in 2 short years.  I highly doubt the Pats will be able to do that :)  Here in northern Indiana, there are alot of Bears fans and we  have a joke about Bears fans too.  Every one of them talk about the '85 Bears, and that is what you will be talking like in about 5 years.

 

The way I take it is your jealous of Indianapolis' QB's.  Don't think for a second Matt Hasselbeck couldn't come in and lead the team to the playoffs, its just Luck is so great and on a great team!

 

Pats will be around for the next 20 years completely.  If the Colts keep getting knocked out of the playoffs each year your coach will be gone sooner than Belichick will be.

 

Belichick will be in the front office till he's 80.  Jimmy G will take the ropes from Brady and do his job.  And who says Jimmy G has to be Brady to win super bowls?  The Seahawks won a super bowl with a mediocre QB and focused on defense.

 

Colts better win a legit playoff game soon or they're just a regular season fantasy sports team.  They're only playoff win was against an injured Chiefs team at home.  Chiefs dominated the first half with most their players in.  Then Chiefs players started dropping like flies and wow...magically the Colts get back in the game and win.

 

And if the AFC goes through Denver or NE it's bye bye for the Colts again.  Heck, it's bye bye for the Colts if they have to go to Pitt on the road.

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I'm out.  Bye all.  Stay safe.  Good debating.   :highfive2:

 

I don't really get why you're arguing this with them. It's math. Statistically speaking, Brady's deep ball is not his strength. Sure the first four games of this season brought his numbers down, and since then they've improved a little, but ultimately your "no weapons" argument doesn't really matter because the offense is tailored more to Brady's skills (accuracy in the short-to-intermediate range, pre-snap reads, seeing the field and finding the mismatch). 

 

In general the long ball is sort of an overrated thing. If you look at the highest rated "deep ball" passers in the NFL, a good number of them are otherwise average to below-average at the position overall. It doesn't matter if you throw a 50-yard bomb right on the money if you hit a DB in the hands with a pass two plays later. 

 

Brady's strength is making short-to-intermediate range throws, and taking care of the ball. He does both of those things better than any other QB in the league. And he wins more games than any other QB in the league as a result. 

 

Just imagine how dominant he'd be if he had a more consistent deep ball? LOL...

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And according to "others" here, the Patriots are unstoppable, their secondary is the greatest thing since sliced bread and will shut down every Colt WR and make them all complete non-factors, which will force Luck to throw to his marginally talented TEs and RBs.

 

 the Colt defense has no prayer at all of even slowing down Gronk nor any of the other unstoppable Patriot WRs because of how pitiful the Colt secondary is.  

 

Brady will obviously throw for 10 TDs and 800 yds on Sunday 

 

the Pat defense will either Sack or Intercept Luck on every Colt offensive snap.  

 

we're going to have to pump in excessive amounts of crowd noise just to keep the Patriots under 100 points

 

 

The Pats aren't unstoppable.  And not one Pats. fan said that.  The Pats' secondary is the best secondary they've had since 2003-04.

 

The Colts' D as of now and especially their LB's can't stop even average TE's.  So it's not arrogant at all or unrealistic to say that Gronk and Wright will have success against the Colts' D.  Gronk had a field day against TJ Ward.

 

Brady should have a 3 to 4 td game as should Luck.  Don't you think?

 

Luck has a history of throwing too many INT's.  I think it's safe to say Luck could have 1 to 2 INT's in this game.  Brady could too.  But it's realistic to say the odds are Luck will throw more INT's than Brady will.

 

I've predicted the Colts to win this game.  What I have been doing is making the case for why the Colts might not win and all the possibilities that come into play.  That's where Colts fans get extremely defensive and can't handle a Pats fan who calls out the Colts team.

 

Colts fans tend to be the most sensitive in the NFL.

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