Geeen Bay @ Seattle (9-4-14)

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Staying on 1 side of the field completely. Isolates the whole other side the whole game. I think that gets in QBs heads. Jmo

He is also the best cb... behind revis.

[Vance]

I agree.  Joe Flacco was the MVP of the super bowl.  We all know the Ravens' D carried that team.

 

I'll agree with you on that except in 2012, the Ravens' D was pretty mediocre and they barely got into the playoffs, where Flacco got amazingly hot and threw 11 TDs to 0 INTs or whatever it was.

 

Wilson is showing shades of Brady, back when he was a 'game manager' but whenever he needed to make a play, he came through.

[Coltsince4]

A few thoughts:

 

Seattle looks like a team if it stays healthly to be able to repeat since the Pats of 03-04 and they seem as hungry as ever. Bad news for the rest of the NFC.

 

Wilson continues to impress me. No weakness in the guys game. Makes the plays that are there and has some nice ball fakes. I would like to see the Pats incorporate some of the misdirection plays that Seattle does. They were lethal.

 

Seattle better address punt returns. Having the safety back there was a mistake.

 

GB still looks like GB to me. A team completely reliant on Rodgers to carry the day. If Seattle does not muff that punt, I wonder if the blow out happens sooner. At some point this team needs to figure out the Oline and Dline. And the coaching? Yikes. It was like they forgot Pervin was on Seattle. I know it is tough to cover him and all but Seattle literally ran many of the plays they did in the Super Bowl and the Packers were not prepared.

 

On the bright side, Lacy is a beast. They need to be balanced this year and let Lacy take some of the burden off of Rodgers.

It's his team that makes him look good. Can I have Luck, with Seattle's running game and defense? Pleaseeeeeeeee????

I know I'm asking a lot aren't I? Dang....

[thedude]

Nothing.  But I have not seen enough that says he can either.  .

Then you are blind. Either that, or you are so much of a homer that you just can't admit another team has a great QB selected much later in the same draft as your guy.

Admitting Wilson is an elite QB does not take anything away from Luck.

[thedude]

Yeah... Wilson is an elite QB.... Is that why he threw that interception right to Darius butler on a "possible game winning drive" for the seagirls against our horribly ranked defense. Pls C'mon now, he is a product of a great supporting cast and a BEAST of an Offensive Coordinater....

So, in your mind an elite QB never throws an INT? Peyton Manning must not be an elite QB. In the biggest game of his career, he threw a couple. Luck sure threw his share of pics. Is he an elite QB?

See how that works?

[thedude]

Russell W has the luxury to be able to throw the ball away when needed.. even on 3rd down..

What?

[thedude]

_{oldunclemark, on 05 Sept 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:}

_{Russell W has the luxury to be able to throw the ball away when needed.. even on 3rd down..}

He doesn't have the "luxury" of throwing the ball away.  He has the football IQ to know when it's wise to throw the ball away and when it's not.  He doesn't live in the moment.  He is always thinking ahead.  He is always thinking long term.  His football IQ is off the charts.

 

He completely understands his strengths and weaknesses and those of his teammates.  He also has a complete understanding of his coaches philosophy and the game plan.  He rarely makes mistakes and he never makes the same mistake twice.

[TheBlueAndWhite]

So, in your mind an elite QB never throws an INT? Peyton Manning must not be an elite QB. In the biggest game of his career, he threw a couple. Luck sure threw his share of pics. Is he an elite QB?

See how that works?

I'm saying that if Russell Wilson was/is an elite QB they make those last game winning drives instead of throwing a INT.I also am not a Payton manning fan and I think he crumbles under the pressure myself... But luck is THE best QB in the fourth quarter that I have ever seen play IMO.

[thedude]

I'm saying that if Russell Wilson was/is an elite QB they make those last game winning drives instead of throwing a INT.I also am not a Payton manning fan and I think he crumbles under the pressure myself... But luck is THE best QB in the fourth quarter that I have ever seen play IMO.

That's hilarious.......

 

Was it intentional though?

[BloodyChamp]

If he's leaving out Joe Montana, Johnny U, 90s Favre etc because he never "seen" them play...maybe...lol

[Synthetic]

I'm saying that if Russell Wilson was/is an elite QB they make those last game winning drives instead of throwing a INT.I also am not a Payton manning fan and I think he crumbles under the pressure myself... But luck is THE best QB in the fourth quarter that I have ever seen play IMO.

 

Someone has never seen Warren Moon before.

[thedude]

Maybe he's Andrew Luck's Uncle?

[amfootball]

I'm saying that if Russell Wilson was/is an elite QB they make those last game winning drives instead of throwing a INT.I also am not a Payton manning fan and I think he crumbles under the pressure myself... But luck is THE best QB in the fourth quarter that I have ever seen play IMO.

I agree that Luck is super clutch but so is Wilson. Both have the same number of fourth quarter comebacks - 8.  Also Wilson has 2 comebacks in the post-season vs one for Luck.

[rsrobinson]

I just think Seattle's defense would be that much better if Sherman eliminated the #1 WR like "The best CB in the game" should.

But that's just my opinion

The Seahawks secondary is probably the most dominant secondary in years so why should they change anything?  If quarterbacks are not even looking Sherman's way that effectively cuts the field in half and makes it easier to cover the rest of the field.  And Rodgers isn't the only QB who won't challenge Sherman.  Manning and Brees barely targeted him either last year in their games against the Seahawks.  That should tell you all you need to know about what the best QBs in the game think of Sherman.

 

And so much for the NFL's new point of emphasis rules that were allegedly aimed at the Seahawks DBs.  The Seahawks were the only team not to get a defensive holding penalty in the preseason and they had no penalties in this game.  The pass interference call went against LB Bobby Wagner and that would have been called in any year.  They are the most talented and best coached secondary in the league and have easily adjusted to the tighter rules without missing a beat.  They just held one of the games elite QBs to less than 200 yards passing and 5.7 YPA.  If you're keeping score at home, the league's four consensus elite QBs (Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers) are now 0-6 vs. the Seahawks since 2012 and have thrown only 6 TD passes (with 5 INTs) and their teams have scored a combined 81 points (13.5 ppg).

[sweetsurrender]

The Seahawks secondary is probably the most dominant secondary in years so why should they change anything?  If quarterbacks are not even looking Sherman's way that effectively cuts the field in half and makes it easier to cover the rest of the field. 

 

And so much for the NFL's new point of emphasis rules that were allegedly aimed at the Seahawks DBs.  The Seahawks were the only team not to get a defensive holding penalty in the preseason and they had no penalties in this game.  The pass interference call went against LB Bobby Wagner and that would have been called in any year.  They are the most talented and best coached secondary in the league and have easily adjusted to the tighter rules without missing a beat.  They just held one of the games elite QBs to less than 200 yards passing and 5.7 YPA.  If you're keeping score at home, the league's four consensus elite QBs (Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers) are now 0-6 vs. the Seahawks since 2012 and their teams have scored a combined 81 points (13.5 ppg).

I agree but hard to see Sherman as a great CB when he gets the 3 or 4 receiver to cover. What is your opinion of the other CBs? They seem just as good as Sherman to me.

[rsrobinson]

I agree but hard to see Sherman as a great CB when he gets the 3 or 4 receiver to cover. What is your opinion of the other CBs? They seem just as good as Sherman to me.

Revis is a great CB when healthy and will probably have a very good year with the Pats.  Peterson has a world of talent but he relies too much on his physical tools and gives up too many big plays.  You don't see QBs avoiding him the way they do Sherman.  Sherman probably doesn't have Peterson's physical tools but he is the smartest CB in the game.  He studies film obsessively and often knows exactly what route the receiver is running and he'll often try to bait the QB into thinking the receiver is open and then jumping the route.  That's why he gets so many picks despite so few targets and why QBs are increasingly gun shy about going after him.

[sweetsurrender]

Revis is a great CB when healthy and will probably have a very good year with the Pats.  Peterson has a world of talent but he relies too much on his physical tools and gives up too many big plays.  You don't see QBs avoiding him the way they do Sherman.  Sherman probably doesn't have Peterson's physical tools but he is the smartest CB in the game.  He studies film obsessively and often knows exactly what route the receiver is running and he'll often try to bait the QB into thinking the receiver is open and then jumping the route.  That's why he gets so many picks despite so few targets and why QBs are increasingly gun shy about going after him.

Thank you for your response but when I asked about other CBs, I mean the other CBs on Seattle who routinely cover the 1 and 2 receivers. They seem as good as Sherman.

[rsrobinson]

Thank you for your response but when I asked about other CBs, I mean the other CBs on Seattle who routinely cover the 1 and 2 receivers. They seem as good as Sherman.

Browner was the most physical CB in the game but was not as good a coverage CB as Sherman.  When he got hurt/suspended last year he was replaced by Maxwell who is not as physically intimidating as Browner but has been better in coverage.  Maxwell had four INTs in the last five regular season games last year and another one Thursday night. 

 

And the claim that Sherman only guards #3 or #4 receivers is bogus. Keeping the top receivers away from Sherman's side of the field is a relatively new strategy and it didn't help the Packers. By doing that opposing teams are essentially voluntarily taking half the field away from their best receivers and forcing QBs to throw to the left. I doubt that most teams will go to that extreme.  When you consider that teams don't like throwing in the middle of the field either because that's where Chancellor and Thomas roam it really limits the playing field for offenses.

[sweetsurrender]

Browner was the most physical CB in the game but was not as good a coverage CB as Sherman.  When he got hurt/suspended last year he was replaced by Maxwell who is not as physically intimidating as Browner but has been better in coverage.  Maxwell had four INTs in the last five regular season games last year and another one Thursday night. 

 

And the claim that Sherman only guards #3 or #4 receivers is bogus. Keeping the top receivers away from Sherman's side of the field is a relatively new strategy and it didn't help the Packers. By doing that opposing teams are essentially voluntarily taking half the field away from their best receivers and forcing QBs to throw to the left. I doubt that most teams will go to that extreme.  When you consider that teams don't like throwing in the middle of the field either because that's where Chancellor and Thomas roam it really limits the playing field for offenses.

I don't disagree with the strategy but just the claims by Sherman that he is the best corner in the game. I am not sure he is the best corner on his own team.

[rsrobinson]

I'm saying that if Russell Wilson was/is an elite QB they make those last game winning drives instead of throwing a INT.I also am not a Payton manning fan and I think he crumbles under the pressure myself... But luck is THE best QB in the fourth quarter that I have ever seen play IMO.

Neither Wilson or Luck are the best 4th quarter QBs at this point in their careers but if you want to compare them head-to-head their number of 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives are nearly identical.  And here are their stats when their team is either trailing or tied in the fourth quarter:

 

Wilson:  85-145   58.6%  1165 yds  11 TD    7 Int  8.0 Y/A  89.6 rate

Luck:    154-271  56.5%  1931 yds  13 TD  12 Int  7.1 Y/A  76.7 rate

 

As with almost all comparisons between the two, Luck ends up with more volume stats (atts, comps, yds)  but Wilson is much more efficient and effective per pass attempt.

 

Here are their stats when their team is trailing by double digits or more:

 

Wilson:  52-73  71.2%    747 yds  6 TD   0 Int  10.2 Y/A  131.5 rate

Luck:   86-149  58/8%  1038 yds  7 TD 10 Int   7.0 Y/A     66.9 rate

 

As you can see Wilson has been brilliant when his team has trailed by double digits or more.  The Seahawks have trailed in seven games by 10 or more with Wilson as a starter and have come back to win six of them.  The sole loss was in the playoffs against the Falcons when Wilson played a great second half and led the Seahawks back from a 20 point deficit to take the lead with 31 seconds left only to have the defense blow it.  Anyone who says that Wilson can't carry a team from behind haven't been paying attention.

[rsrobinson]

I don't disagree with the strategy but just the claims by Sherman that he is the best corner in the game. I am not sure he is the best corner on his own team.

Maxwell would probably be the best corner on many teams in the NFL but he's not in Sherman's class yet.  The fact that opposing QBs and OCs, men who spend hours dissecting tape of the Seahawks defense, would much rather attack Maxwell than Sherman speaks volumes.

 

If the Seahawks secondary has a vulnerability it's in its depth. They lost Browner and Thurmond from last year and Tharold Simon and Jeremy Lane are hurt right now.  It looks like they may need to start Marcus Burley, who they just got from the Colts, at nickel corner next week.   They like his potential but he's barely practiced with the team so far.  You guys would probably know more about him than I would.

[chad72]

Maxwell would probably be the best corner on many teams in the NFL but he's not in Sherman's class yet.  The fact that opposing QBs and OCs, men who spend hours dissecting tape of the Seahawks defense, would much rather attack Maxwell than Sherman speaks volumes.

 

If the Seahawks secondary has a vulnerability it's in its depth. They lost Browner and Thurmond from last year and Tharold Simon and Jeremy Lane are hurt right now.  It looks like they may need to start Marcus Burley, who they just got from the Colts, at nickel corner next week.   They like his potential but he's barely practiced with the team so far.  You guys would probably know more about him than I would.

 

If anything, I would get the Seahawks secondary coach as a DC somewhere, much like Dennis Allen rose as secondary coach from the Saints to DC of Denver to HC of Raiders. Maxwell is outstanding in coverage and gets better as the route gets deeper which Browner was not on deeper routes. Shorter routes, however, Maxwell has ways to go in press man and run defense in shorter areas, Browner was better at that.

 

I bet Belichick uses Browner against the bigger but less speedier wideouts while using Revis against the more speedier wideouts, matches their skill sets best.

 

There are honestly 2 guys in the NFL I think can get catches against Sherman better than anyone else - one would obviously be Megatron and the other I feel would be Julio Jones. However, accuracy from the QB would be important there - I will take Matt Ryan over Mathew Stafford for accuracy. But the biggest factor for the Seattle secondary to be dominant is their 4 man pass rush and the team that can nullify its 4 man pass rush and force them to rush 5 and stay patient will be the one that can go toe-to-toe with them.

[thedude]

I agree but hard to see Sherman as a great CB when he gets the 3 or 4 receiver to cover. What is your opinion of the other CBs? They seem just as good as Sherman to me.

If you noticed, Rogers never once threw the ball in Sherman's direction. The Packers never even faked his direction. Manning ignored him in the Super Bowl. The one time the 49ers tried to beat on him in the NFC championship game, the play ends in a pic. His prescience eliminates half the field. Because of Sherman the defense only needs to defend half the field. No other CB essentially takes away half the field from an offense. Sherman effectively eliminates which ever receiver the offense puts up against him.

[thedude]

Thank you for your response but when I asked about other CBs, I mean the other CBs on Seattle who routinely cover the 1 and 2 receivers. They seem as good as Sherman.

No, Sherman is undoubtedly the best CB on that team. Now, he may not be the best player on that team with Thomas, Lynch and Harvin playing their normal game.

[thedude]

Seattle's Oline is terrible. They have a good LT and a good C and nothing else. 

Obviously you didn't watch their O line play. 

[Dustin]

Obviously you didn't watch their O line play.

I did. Sweezy did alright as well. Others were meh.

[thedude]

I did. Sweezy did alright as well. Others were meh.

Both Sweezy and Carpenter mauled the Green Bay defense.  Seattle's O line is much improved over last season