Goodell explains the 2 games for Rice

[chad72]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/08/01/roger-goodell-ray-rice-suspension-baltimore-ravens/13468921/

 

Buying it?

 

[Gavin]

Im buying what Goodell says. I watched the Ray Rice interview and I cant say I bought all of what he said

[Superman]

It's essentially what I've said and believed all along, except that I expected Rice's suspension to be longer than two games.

[amfootball]

I get it as Rice has no previous incidences unlike Big Ben. And he was remorseful. Even though I think it should have been longer, I get the commish's point of view on it.

[jvan1973]

4 games if you take some completely legal substances from GNC . Knock your girlfriend out, 2 games. Makes total sense..

[Superman]

4 games if you take some completely legal substances from GNC . Knock your girlfriend out, 2 games. Makes total sense..

 

This is such a terrible argument.

 

The PED policy is collectively bargained, with automatic suspensions triggered when a test comes back hot. 

 

Personal conduct is not collectively bargained, and everyone understands that each situation is different. It is at the discretion of the commissioner to levy suspensions for violations of the personal conduct policy, based on his judgment. Pretty much anything a player gets suspended for under the personal conduct policy -- DUI, drug arrests, violence, sexual assault, gun charges -- is worse than PEDs. But it is rare for a player to be suspended for more than a couple games for a violation of the personal conduct policy.

 

Again, this argument is weak, and disingenuous. You're better off just saying that you either think Ray Rice should get a longer suspension, or that you think the drug policies need to be overhauled. But it is not an issue of using PEDs being worse than hitting your girlfriend.

[jvan1973]

This is such a terrible argument.

The PED policy is collectively bargained, with automatic suspensions triggered when a test comes back hot.

Personal conduct is not collectively bargained, and everyone understands that each situation is different. It is at the discretion of the commissioner to levy suspensions for violations of the personal conduct policy, based on his judgment. Pretty much anything a player gets suspended for under the personal conduct policy -- DUI, drug arrests, violence, sexual assault, gun charges -- is worse than PEDs. But it is rare for a player to be suspended for more than a couple games for a violation of the personal conduct policy.

Again, this argument is weak, and disingenuous. You're better off just saying that you either think Ray Rice should get a longer suspension, or that you think the drug policies need to be overhauled. But it is not an issue of using PEDs being worse than hitting your girlfriend.

Well clearly thoae handing out the discipline for personal conduct fine PED use worse than a DUI, marijuana use and domestic violence. The suspension lengths clearly reflect that. Did you listen to Goodells explanation today?

[Superman]

Well clearly thoae handing out the discipline for personal conduct fine PED use worse than a DUI, marijuana use and domestic violence. The suspension lengths clearly reflect that. Did you listen to Goodells explanation today?

 

I don't know if I heard everything Goodell said. The link in the OP has a two minute video that I watched.

 

And what Goodell said, which people ignore, is that a) the drug program and the automatic suspensions are collectively bargained, and b) it requires multiple violations (I thought it was two, but Goodell said four; also, that doesn't apply to PEDs) to be suspended under the drug program.

 

That means that first time offender Ray Rice's two game suspension is a stricter punishment than what violaters of the drug/substance abuse policy get. His terrible decision and conduct, which has only happened once as far as we know, wasn't condoned. The NFL took action by suspending him. Meanwhile, someone pops hot on a weed test, then they get placed in the program where they are tested more frequently, and they still fail three more times before they are suspended. And now, players and agents (and even the NFL) are talking about reducing the first suspension from four games, probably down to just one or two. And again, if Goodell is accurate, you're talking about someone who failed four drug tests. As opposed to Ray Rice's one night of awful decision making and behavior.

 

There is no way to come to the conclusion that the NFL takes domestic violence less seriously than it takes smoking weed, unless you choose to ignore the facts that govern the drug/substance abuse policy.

 

It's different for PEDs, for several reasons. My understanding is that a first violation automatically triggers a four game suspension. Still, this is a collectively bargained policy, and that includes the length of the first time suspension. There is no room for discretion and judgment, and that's the way everyone on each side wanted it. You fail a test for PEDs, there's no leniency, there's no "well it was an accident, so we'll drop it to one game," there's no "I forgot to get a waiver." And that's by design. Maybe that needs to be reconsidered, but it doesn't mean that using PEDs is worse than domestic violence.

 

We're smart enough to look at situations, consider all the facts, and make draw reasonable conclusions. There is nothing about the way the NFL handled this that says they condone domestic violence against women. And if you acknowledge that the drug and PED policies and suspensions are collectively bargained, you realize that it's not smart to compare the length of two totally unrelated suspensions to try to gauge how seriously the NFL takes each offense.

[jvan1973]

I don't know if I heard everything Goodell said. The link in the OP has a two minute video that I watched.

And what Goodell said, which people ignore, is that a) the drug program and the automatic suspensions are collectively bargained, and b) it requires multiple violations (I thought it was two, but Goodell said four; also, that doesn't apply to PEDs) to be suspended under the drug program.

That means that first time offender Ray Rice's two game suspension is a stricter punishment than what violaters of the drug/substance abuse policy get. His terrible decision and conduct, which has only happened once as far as we know, wasn't condoned. The NFL took action by suspending him. Meanwhile, someone pops hot on a weed test, then they get placed in the program where they are tested more frequently, and they still fail three more times before they are suspended. And now, players and agents (and even the NFL) are talking about reducing the first suspension from four games, probably down to just one or two. And again, if Goodell is accurate, you're talking about someone who failed four drug tests. As opposed to Ray Rice's one night of awful decision making and behavior.

There is no way to come to the conclusion that the NFL takes domestic violence less seriously than it takes smoking weed, unless you choose to ignore the facts that govern the drug/substance abuse policy.

It's different for PEDs, for several reasons. My understanding is that a first violation automatically triggers a four game suspension. Still, this is a collectively bargained policy, and that includes the length of the first time suspension. There is no room for discretion and judgment, and that's the way everyone on each side wanted it. You fail a test for PEDs, there's no leniency, there's no "well it was an accident, so we'll drop it to one game," there's no "I forgot to get a waiver." And that's by design. Maybe that needs to be reconsidered, but it doesn't mean that using PEDs is worse than domestic violence.

We're smart enough to look at situations, consider all the facts, and make draw reasonable conclusions. There is nothing about the way the NFL handled this that says they condone domestic violence against women. And if you acknowledge that the drug and PED policies and suspensions are collectively bargained, you realize that it's not smart to compare the length of two totally unrelated suspensions to try to gauge how seriously the NFL takes each offense.

Ok, well then at the very least they find domestic violence in line with excessive on field violence. Suh was suspended two games for the stomping incident if I'm not mistaken

[IcEWoLF]

4 games if you take some completely legal substances from GNC . Knock your girlfriend out, 2 games. Makes total sense..

 

[Superman]

Ok, well then at the very least they find domestic violence in line with excessive on field violence. Suh was suspended two games for the stomping incident if I'm not mistaken

 

It was two games. And it was Suh's fifth incident of unsportsmanlike conduct within a year and a half in the league. He had more personal fouls in his first two years in the league than anyone else. And the stomping happened three weeks after he met with Goodell about his conduct. That was kind of like the other shoe that everyone was waiting to drop, as Suh had developed a reputation of being a dirty player.

 

Not a first offense, and not a player who had a good reputation around the league, like Rice did. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Ray Rice is fortunate has been allowed to enter a pre-trial intervention, which should prevent criminal charges for the alleged assault of his wife.  So the NFL punishement is even harsher than what he'll get via the judicial system.  So no jail and anger management courses.  Because of the NFL, his punishment of losing a couple game checks and not playing is likely the stiffest penalty he will get regarding the whole matter. He

 

Here is the reasoning from the County Prosecutor- “This decision was arrived at after careful consideration of the information contained in Mr. Rice’s application in light of all of the facts gathered during the investigation,” acting Atlantic County Prosecutor Jim McClain said. “After considering all relevant information in light of applicable law, it was determined that this was the appropriate disposition.”

[crazycolt1]

4 games if you take some completely legal substances from GNC . Knock your girlfriend out, 2 games. Makes total sense..

Evidently what you call completely legal substance from G.N.C. Is not legal in the NFL. 

[The Old Crow]

He made a horrible mistake, got two games, should have gotten four. At least he apologized and showed contrition unlike someone who moves back court dates , and is not sure he did anything wrong. Ray knows all too well he messed up, but other than that , he's been a perfect citizen. Still , he's accepted what he has done, and has taken responsibility for it, and is trying to make sure it never happens again.

[jvan1973]

Evidently what you call completely legal substance from G.N.C. Is not legal in the NFL.

The NFL can't determine what is legal and what isn't. They can determine what is banned and what isn't

[jvan1973]

He made a horrible mistake, got two games, should have gotten four. At least he apologized and showed contrition unlike someone who moves back court dates , and is not sure he did anything wrong. Ray knows all too well he messed up, but other than that , he's been a perfect citizen. Still , he's accepted what he has done, and has taken responsibility for it, and is trying to make sure it never happens again.

Then why did he plead not guilty at the initial hearing?

[Poster X]

I get it as Rice has no previous incidences unlike Big Ben. And he was remorseful. Even though I think it should have been longer, I get the commish's point of view on it.

I was a proponent of Roethlisberger getting suspended for his career, but the commish saw fit to suspend him for x number (I think one year)... and he got time off for good behavior. Rice should have been similar. No respect for these kind of people. 

[crazycolt1]

The NFL can't determine what is legal and what isn't. They can determine what is banned and what isn't

If the substance is banned then it is illegal to use it if you are on a NFL roster. Every season the NFL puts out a list on the banned substance. Therefore making it illegal in the NFL. Are you really bringing up a technical issue? 

[crazycolt1]

Then why did he plead not guilty at the initial hearing?

I take it you have never took the advice of a lawyer? Standard plea in probably 90 percent of cases. 

[Andy]

Only Goodell and people directly involved in the incident understand all the facts. We, as fans, do not understand every angle. 

 

Because of that, I'm not going to bash Goodell for something he's worked extremely hard on. This is a tricky matter and it's not an easy one to handle. 

 

Personally, I find a lot of the bashing to be overblown. I've looked into the matter exclusively and it's a very isolated incident for Ray Rice and this comes from a guy who has done a lot of good for the NFL, much more than the average player (in terms of charity work, foundation, community stuff). Everyone will make mistakes and Ray Rice clearly takes blame for the incident and will learn from his mistakes. It's not like Rice is a threat to other people and will strike again. 

 

Now the isolated incident is something horrible in domestic violence and it's a problem in today's society. It's not something that we should ignore. 

 

I understand my point of view may not be a popular one, but the argument that "Gordon gets up to 16, Rice gets 2" is very silly (and not valid) and in that case, it's Gordon repeatedly breaking the same rules. That's where Goodell needs to flex his muscle, not in the Rice incident. 

 

So when I see *s like Keith Olbermann and other media members start saying that he should "resign" and quit his job, it makes me sick and I'd like to see those turkeys in that situation. I've always been a fan of Goodell and find he's done a lot of good for the NFL. I found he took the smarter approach here, rather than the brash, over the top suspension. If Rice makes the same mistake again, he'll lay down the hammer, watch.

[Blue Horseshoe]

I think this is a pretty tough case because any suspension without pay ultimately punishes the victim by reducing the household income.  He should have been assigned a lot of social service volunteer time working with battered women.

 

Goodell's explanation was not convincing at all.

[The Old Crow]

Then why did he plead not guilty at the initial hearing?

I'm not really sure , but he did say he was ashamed and remorseful at the hearing. Aside from the domestic violence charges , four games would be justifiable just for embarrassing the organization and the NFL. I think Ray knows that.

That being said, this incident was totally out of character for Ray Rice , who had a spotless record before this unfortunate incident.

[The Old Crow]

Only Goodell and people directly involved in the incident understand all the facts. We, as fans, do not understand every angle.

Because of that, I'm not going to bash Goodell for something he's worked extremely hard on. This is a tricky matter and it's not an easy one to handle.

Personally, I find a lot of the bashing to be overblown. I've looked into the matter exclusively and it's a very isolated incident for Ray Rice and this comes from a guy who has done a lot of good for the NFL, much more than the average player (in terms of charity work, foundation, community stuff). Everyone will make mistakes and Ray Rice clearly takes blame for the incident and will learn from his mistakes. It's not like Rice is a threat to other people and will strike again.

Now the isolated incident is something horrible in domestic violence and it's a problem in today's society. It's not something that we should ignore.

I understand my point of view may not be a popular one, but the argument that "Gordon gets up to 16, Rice gets 2" is very silly (and not valid) and in that case, it's Gordon repeatedly breaking the same rules. That's where Goodell needs to flex his muscle, not in the Rice incident.

So when I see *s like Keith Olbermann and other media members start saying that he should "resign" and quit his job, it makes me sick and I'd like to see those turkeys in that situation. I've always been a fan of Goodell and find he's done a lot of good for the NFL. I found he took the smarter approach here, rather than the brash, over the top suspension. If Rice makes the same mistake again, he'll lay down the hammer, watch.

I was hoping I would never have to see Olbermann again after his failed and dopic talk show on MSNBC.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Evidently what you call completely legal substance from G.N.C. Is not legal in the NFL. 

 

If what you get from GNC is listed on pages 14-18 of this policy, then you are absolutely correct.

 

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/PlayerDevelopment/2010%20Steroid%20Policy.pdf

[ColtsBlueFL]

I think this is a pretty tough case because any suspension without pay ultimately punishes the victim by reducing the household income.  He should have been assigned a lot of social service volunteer time working with battered women.

 

Goodell's explanation was not convincing at all.

 

I don't think that is in his power to do so.  However, the judicial system can.  But first, they entered him into a one year intervention program.  Once he completes that, there will be no conviction on his record, but arrest stays. He has said after this (alluded to in a 'fixing himself' comment) that he and his wife will together be advocates for stopping domestic violence.  I hope he follows through with every bit of it.  All will be better served then.

[The Old Crow]

I don't think that is in his power to do so. However, the judicial system can. But first, they entered him into a one year intervention program. Once he completes that, there will be no conviction on his record, but arrest stays. He has said after this (alluded to in a 'fixing himself' comment) that he and his wife will together be advocates for stopping domestic violence. I hope he follows through with every bit of it. All will be better served then.

The terrible irony for Ray is that he was very prominent with kids in the community, and anti- bullying campaigns. He knows he messed up royally. I really believe he and his wife were totally bombed that night at the casino. That is not an excuse for what happened, but may give an insight as to why a guy with a previously clean record, could have been involved in this fiasco. He has a lot of work to do to clean up his image.

[jvan1973]

I take it you have never took the advice of a lawyer? Standard plea in probably 90 percent of cases.

That is my point. Old bat is ragging on irsay for not pleading guilty while praising rice for admitting his wrong doing

[The Old Crow]

That is my point. Old bat is ragging on irsay for not pleading guilty while praising rice for admitting his wrong doing

No Mr . One liner, my point was Irsay won't apologize. Wrong again.

[jvan1973]

No Mr . One liner, my point was Irsay won't apologize. Wrong again.

Once his legal troubles are behind him, I'm sure he will

[BOTT]

I was a proponent of Roethlisberger getting suspended for his career, but the commish saw fit to suspend him for x number (I think one year)... and he got time off for good behavior. Rice should have been similar. No respect for these kind of people.

Roethlisberger wasnt even charged with a crime

[The Old Crow]

Once his legal troubles are behind him, I'm sure he will

We shall see. I get some of the legal ramifications stuff, but Rice plead not guilty, but still apologized. He at least recognized he embarrassed his fan base. , and the NFL. He has also taken his punishment, entered into a domestic violence prevention program , and both he and his wife further expressed their regret and remorse. When was I ever easy on Rice when I was calling for four games suspension instead of two ?

[oldunclemark]

Godell seems to be saying he piggy-backed off the law....which gave Rice no jail time (another very suprising decision)

[Poster X]

Roethlisberger wasnt even charged with a crime

He settled the case in Nevada out of court, and the other went nowhere because the woman he took advantage of was just as shady as him. He was suspended for a reason. Well, two to be exact.

[oldunclemark]

Only Goodell and people directly involved in the incident understand all the facts. We, as fans, do not understand every angle. 

 

Because of that, I'm not going to bash Goodell for something he's worked extremely hard on. This is a tricky matter and it's not an easy one to handle. 

 

Personally, I find a lot of the bashing to be overblown. I've looked into the matter exclusively and it's a very isolated incident for Ray Rice and this comes from a guy who has done a lot of good for the NFL, much more than the average player (in terms of charity work, foundation, community stuff). Everyone will make mistakes and Ray Rice clearly takes blame for the incident and will learn from his mistakes. It's not like Rice is a threat to other people and will strike again. 

 

Now the isolated incident is something horrible in domestic violence and it's a problem in today's society. It's not something that we should ignore. 

 

I understand my point of view may not be a popular one, but the argument that "Gordon gets up to 16, Rice gets 2" is very silly (and not valid) and in that case, it's Gordon repeatedly breaking the same rules. That's where Goodell needs to flex his muscle, not in the Rice incident. 

 

So when I see *s like Keith Olbermann and other media members start saying that he should "resign" and quit his job, it makes me sick and I'd like to see those turkeys in that situation. I've always been a fan of Goodell and find he's done a lot of good for the NFL. I found he took the smarter approach here, rather than the brash, over the top suspension. If Rice makes the same mistake again, he'll lay down the hammer, watch.

I've had the same thoughts.

The NFL: office KNOWS that 2 gamwes seems light...but that' where the ruling ended up..

The courts KLNOW that no gail time and counsling seems light but that's what they ended up giving Ray..

Both chose not to drop the big weight on Rice..After meeting with him and his wife...

Both the law and the NFL gave them a break and there must be a reason..

[oldunclemark]

I've had the same thoughts.

The NFL office KNOWS that 2 games seems light...but that's where the ruling ended up..

The courts KNOW that no jail time and counseling seems light but that's what they ended up giving Ray..

Both chose not to drop the big weight on Rice..after meeting with him and his wife...

Both the law and the NFL gave them a break and there must be a reason..one we are not totally aware of

[BOTT]

He settled the case in Nevada out of court, and the other went nowhere because the woman he took advantage of was just as shady as him. He was suspended for a reason. Well, two to be exact.

They didn't charge him in Georgia due to lack of evidence and the Nevada case was settled out of court....and your're right, she was shady.

[Synthetic]

This shouldn't surprise anybody.

 

The NFL does not give a crap about women at all.

 

Football itself is a sport that is all about being a MAN.

Everything about it is about the manliness of toughness and getting violent to the point of stupidity to prove you're a REAL MAN.

Look at how many incidents of stupidity we have every year of fans getting violent after games and/or committing murders cause "he said my team sucked wahhhh".

 

I don't even have to make examples of this, just look at how these athletes are touted as god like figures of men just cause they can throw a ball and slam their bodies into each other. The modern day equivalent of the Roman Gladiator. Someone could get killed on that field, and people would cheer it, as they've cheered injuries for decades.

 

It's not just about Ray Rice doing a horrible thing, this is the culture of football. Women in general are just an exhibition to the sport. That's the point of cheerleaders, they give men something to drool over. They aren't there to some how "boost team spirit" that's a laughable excuse. Even when we had a female ref, they made a big deal about it cause this is the MAN'S sport, the only place the woman belongs is wearing skimpy clothes doing dance moves off to the side. Better yet female fans in general often get mistreated as well, as has been proven in the past.

 

Roger Goodell did not even suspend Greg Hardy for beating the living crap out of his wife, and his trial date was just set. He gave Ray Rice 2 weeks, but Hardy? Still waiting on his suspension if he even receives one.

 

The NFL and Goodell do not care whatsoever about women. Football isn't about them, this is about men being men, only thing women are useful for in their minds is objects. The same goes for the fans, as has been proven this past summer with all the rampant homophobia aimed at Michael Sam - can't be havin' none of that, this sport is for REAL MEN ONLY!

[Valpo2004]

You know what I think is missing here. . . 

 

With all the people getting up in arms about the 2 game suspension let me ask you this. . . Are you not also upset that the law let him completely avoid criminal prosecution in exchange for going through a diversionary program??

 

I mean how the law handles these things is more important then how the NFL handles these things.  And no one seems to be commenting on the fact that Rice got even more of a slap on the wrist from the law then he did the NFL.

 

At least the NFL is fining him 3 game checks. . . that's a good amount of money that is not going into Ray Rice's pocket.  

 

The law is making him take a class!!!

[Superman]

You know what I think is missing here. . . 

 

With all the people getting up in arms about the 2 game suspension let me ask you this. . . Are you not also upset that the law let him completely avoid criminal prosecution in exchange for going through a diversionary program??

 

I mean how the law handles these things is more important then how the NFL handles these things.  And no one seems to be commenting on the fact that Rice got even more of a slap on the wrist from the law then he did the NFL.

 

At least the NFL is fining him 3 game checks. . . that's a good amount of money that is not going into Ray Rice's pocket.  

 

The law is making him take a class!!!

 

After fully investigating the situation...

 

That's why it's hard for me to have too strong of an opinion on how this is being handled. The people who dug into the situation, uncovered all the facts, discussed it with the people involved, etc., determined that minimal legal action needed to be pursued. The legal system can sometimes be a joke, but they still have way more information than any of us do. 

[OffensivelyPC]

After fully investigating the situation...

 

That's why it's hard for me to have too strong of an opinion on how this is being handled. The people who dug into the situation, uncovered all the facts, discussed it with the people involved, etc., determined that minimal legal action needed to be pursued. The legal system can sometimes be a joke, but they still have way more information than any of us do. 

I don't know what the heck you're talking about.  Didn't you know that the NFL is the barometer of the American ethical compass?  An NFL player suspension affects the population on a daily basis.  I'll take it a step further - if the NFL doesn't increase their punishment to one that shows they are against domestic abuse....well then they are for it!  I even question whether our state laws aren't harsher on domestic abuse because of the NFL.

 

Actually, what I think is really ironic is when Congressmen write the NFL to change their punishment on Ray Rice.  I wonder, where's the article where those same Congressmen implore the prosecutor to revisit theirs?