Andre Johnson doesn't want to play for the Texans.

[Boiler_Colt]

I would love to see his face if he finally is traded and its to the Browns.

[Qwiz]

he has very few years left. The fact he is so dead set against the direction the team is headed should worry Texans fans

You realize that he waited till after the Draft to voice his sentiments. He wanted a quarterback, it has nothing to do with the regime. Watt, Cushing, and others have come out and applauded BOB and the direction he's taking the team.

[MrNLM]

I would like to see him play with AJ Green and the Bengals. I have always felt that team needed one more WR to keep an eye on to be dangerous.

[jvan1973]

You realize that he waited till after the Draft to voice his sentiments. He wanted a quarterback, it has nothing to do with the regime. Watt, Cushing, and others have come out and applauded BOB and the direction he's taking the team.

of coarse he wanted a qb. You can't win without one

[Qwiz]

Your "new culture" involves no interest in winning games. You guys had the chance to secure Teddy Bridgewater in the draft knowing that someone would trade up to get him and you didn't. Then in the second round you don't take Carr because of some history with his brother when the franchise began. Then finally, you take a qb that was a late riser in Tom Savage that probably was one of the weaker QB's in the whole draft to be your eventual starter. Why would Andre want to play on a team that doesn't care about winning?

Hmm, some quarterback that has questions about his passing skills or the best defensive prospect in the last 20 years? No one can predict teams trading up so that argument is just stupid. We clearly are changing and getting smashmouth on both sides of the ball and that is the clearest indicator we plan to win. Why spend a second on a guy who may turn out like his brother after all and who, if selected, will aggravate the fanbase even more? There are plenty of QBs in next year's draft. BOB got his cerebral guy that he wanted, we are loaded on defense and the coaching staff. Only someone who doesn't know football would think we aren't trying to win.

[Yoshinator]

I would like to see him play with AJ Green and the Bengals. I have always felt that team needed one more WR to keep an eye on to be dangerous.

Bengals are very dangerous already, I don't want them getting way better on Offense.

[Yoshinator]

Hmm, some quarterback that has questions about his passing skills or the best defensive prospect in the last 20 years? No one can predict teams trading up so that argument is just stupid. We clearly are changing and getting smashmouth on both sides of the ball and that is the clearest indicator we plan to win. Why spend a second on a guy who may turn out like his brother after all and who, if selected, will aggravate the fanbase even more? There are plenty of QBs in next year's draft. BOB got his cerebral guy that he wanted, we are loaded on defense and the coaching staff. Only someone who doesn't know football would think we aren't trying to win.

Everyone knew Bridgewater was going in the 1st unless you don't follow the draft that well. The plan was to trade over the Texans. You had a good draft but Clowney doesn't win games by himself. Yes he was probably the right choice at 1, but you have no QB. Unless you have a Seahawks or 49ers defense (which the Texans clearly don't have), you need the qb to help carry the team a lot. Even the Seahawks weren't as good as they are now without Russell Wilson. By not trading up for Bridgewater, BOB basically said, "we are rebuilding and don't care about winning for a few years." You sure aren't going anywhere with Fitzpatrick. Andre should leave, he has no chance at winning a superbowl in his career there.

[Qwiz]

of coarse he wanted a qb. You can't win without one

Tell that to Trent Dilfer's Ravens, or the Bears last year when Cutler went down. And even if you do have a quarterback you still aren't guaranteed a ring...Randall Cobb, Brandon Marshall, Jimmy Graham, Demaryius and Julius Thomas can attest to that. Defense wins games too, and right now the Texans are gearing up for a great defense.

[Superman]

You're right in that it was good for everyone involved, but I know that the fanbase was torn apart and many switched allegiances, were and are still bitter, there were hard times and it was edgy on the forum back when it first happened. So while it made sense to some that didn't lessen the pain, and especially after seeing what Manning just did in Denver, I'm sure there are some who wonder what may have happened if he had stayed. Andrew reportedly wouldn't have minded learning behind him for a few years either if I remember correctly.

Losing your franchise guy is never smooth and I don't think the team is willing to let him go. His cap hit is going to kill us, but at the same time we don't neef this kind of cancer in the locker room. This team is changing in philosophy and if Andre wants out, well farewell, but yes we are going to be upset no matter what kind of compensation we get. You're right; Andre Johnson turning to the media and speaking out says enough about the situation.

 

Wow. He's a cancer?

 

Do you really not understand AJ's perspective on this one? He never complained, through 8 years of zero playoff appearances, poor coaching, poor QBing, etc. It's hard to blame a player who sees the end of his carer on the horizon for wanting to play for a team that will contend. 

 

It's kind of shocking that you'd respond with good riddance.

[Qwiz]

Everyone knew Bridgewater was going in the 1st unless you don't follow the draft that well. The plan was to trade over the Texans. You had a good draft but Clowney doesn't win games by himself. Yes he was probably the right choice at 1, but you have no QB. Unless you have a Seahawks or 49ers defense (which the Texans clearly don't have), you need the qb to help carry the team a lot. Even the Seahawks weren't as good as they are now without Russell Wilson. By not trading up for Bridgewater, BOB basically said, "we are rebuilding and don't care about winning for a few years." You sure aren't going anywhere with Fitzpatrick. Andre should leave, he has no chance at winning a superbowl in his career there.

Uhhhh, no. There was actually talk Bridgewater would fall in the Draft because of his issues and guess what, he did. Yeah, the Texans definitely could have predicted Minnesota would move up and take Seattle's place to grab the guy. Of course Clowney won't win games by himself, but he was the consensus best player in the Draft and he will take pressure off of our other defensive playmakers. The Texans defense definitely has the potential of a 49er defense, and if you don't believe it then you will see for yourself soon enough. The Seahawks managed to get into the playoffs with Charlie Whitehurst at quarterback if I'm not mistaken, and they were certainly a good team before Wilson got there though yes, he has elevated their play, but there is a reason why many people like to tear the guy down a peg and say that without his defense he wouldn't have a ring. By not trading up for Bridgewater BOB showed that he knows how to draft, and some random message board guy isn't going to be able to sway him just because he thinks Bridgewater is the best thing since sliced bread lol.

This isn't a rebuild, it is a retool. You have no idea what we will do with Fitzpatrick. Like I said in my previous post, even if Andre does go to New England, he still isn't guaranteed a ring. You can't choose championships.

[Qwiz]

Wow. He's a cancer?

 

Do you really not understand AJ's perspective on this one? He never complained, through 8 years of zero playoff appearances, poor coaching, poor QBing, etc. It's hard to blame a player who sees the end of his carer on the horizon for wanting to play for a team that will contend. 

 

It's kind of shocking that you'd respond with good riddance.

Yes, when a player exhibits a me-first attitude and expresses tons of doubt in what is supposed to be a positive, changing locker room then he has become a cancer. Of course I understand his perspective, but he has been with us for a long time, he has signed his contracts, took his money, become the top and remains one of the top receivers in the NFL with mediocre quarterback play at times and dealing with a coach who many say was predictable and played favorites. Now, when we get a guy who knows how he wants to win and is a no-nonsense kind of guy, and are adding more weapons to the defense than we've ever had, he suddenly wants to go? And he had to say so after we were already done with the Draft, so we had no chance to try and add to our receiving core knowing that he wanted out? Going to Denver or New England or even Carolina doesn't guarantee that he'll get a ring. Yes, he may be more likely to get one there, but what is he going to do if he goes to Denver and Manning retires in two years? When Osweiler comes on-board will he demand another trade because of the change of direction? I love the guy, he is the best player in franchise history but think about it: If Andrew declared he wanted to play for the 49ers and not the Colts anymore because he didn't believe in the offensive line or defense, how would you feel? It's a player saying "me first" over his teammates. Andre has the right to be upset but so do Texan fans.

[Yoshinator]

Uhhhh, no. There was actually talk Bridgewater would fall in the Draft because of his issues and guess what, he did. Yeah, the Texans definitely could have predicted Minnesota would move up and take Seattle's place to grab the guy. Of course Clowney won't win games by himself, but he was the consensus best player in the Draft and he will take pressure off of our other defensive playmakers. The Texans defense definitely has the potential of a 49er defense, and if you don't believe it then you will see for yourself soon enough. The Seahawks managed to get into the playoffs with Charlie Whitehurst at quarterback if I'm not mistaken, and they were certainly a good team before Wilson got there though yes, he has elevated their play, but there is a reason why many people like to tear the guy down a peg and say that without his defense he wouldn't have a ring. By not trading up for Bridgewater BOB showed that he knows how to draft, and some random message board guy isn't going to be able to sway him just because he thinks Bridgewater is the best thing since sliced bread lol.

This isn't a rebuild, it is a retool. You have no idea what we will do with Fitzpatrick. Like I said in my previous post, even if Andre does go to New England, he still isn't guaranteed a ring. You can't choose championships. Study up on some football before you reply to me again because clearly you don't know much about it.

"This isn't a rebuild, this is a retool". Clearly a Texans fan in Denial. Your homerism is amazing.

[Superman]

Uhhhh, no. There was actually talk Bridgewater would fall in the Draft because of his issues and guess what, he did. Yeah, the Texans definitely could have predicted Minnesota would move up and take Seattle's place to grab the guy. Of course Clowney won't win games by himself, but he was the consensus best player in the Draft and he will take pressure off of our other defensive playmakers. The Texans defense definitely has the potential of a 49er defense, and if you don't believe it then you will see for yourself soon enough. The Seahawks managed to get into the playoffs with Charlie Whitehurst at quarterback if I'm not mistaken, and they were certainly a good team before Wilson got there though yes, he has elevated their play, but there is a reason why many people like to tear the guy down a peg and say that without his defense he wouldn't have a ring. By not trading up for Bridgewater BOB showed that he knows how to draft, and some random message board guy isn't going to be able to sway him just because he thinks Bridgewater is the best thing since sliced bread lol.

This isn't a rebuild, it is a retool. You have no idea what we will do with Fitzpatrick. Like I said in my previous post, even if Andre does go to New England, he still isn't guaranteed a ring. You can't choose championships.

 

Matt Hasselbeck was the QB the year the Seahawks got to the playoffs, and let's never forget that they only won 7 games that year. I don't think that's the kind of greatness you're aspiring to.

[Qwiz]

"This isn't a rebuild, this is a retool". Clearly a Texans fan in Denial. Your homerism is amazing.

How many players that played for us last year don't play for us now? You do know how rebuilds work, don't you? (Oh wait, that's right, probably not). Old players and players that don't perform or who the coaches don't like are let go. Then everything is blown up and it usually takes four or five years before the team is contending again. What BOB is doing is nothing like a rebuild. Me saying this has nothing to do with homerism, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me names. Again, like I said in my previous post, your reactions in this thread are making it more and more clear that you don't know much about football.

[Qwiz]

Matt Hasselbeck was the QB the year the Seahawks got to the playoffs, and let's never forget that they only won 7 games that year. I don't think that's the kind of greatness you're aspiring to.

Of course not. I'm just saying that you don't always need a great quarterback to win games. Our defense is going to be good enough for us to have a game manager in there ala Mark Sanchez or Alex Smith. And I'd take Fitzpatrick over Mark Sanchez any day of the week.

[Dustin]

Matt Hasselbeck was the QB the year the Seahawks got to the playoffs, and let's never forget that they only won 7 games that year. I don't think that's the kind of greatness you're aspiring to.

7 wins would be like the 4th greatest season in Texans history lol

[Qwiz]

7 wins would be like the 4th greatest season in Texans history lol

Not bad for a franchise that's only been in existence for 10 years.

[Yoshinator]

How many players that played for us last year don't play for us now? You do know how rebuilds work, don't you? (Oh wait, that's right, probably not). Old players and players that don't perform or who the coaches don't like are let go. Then everything is blown up and it usually takes four or five years before the team is contending again. What BOB is doing is nothing like a rebuild. Me saying this has nothing to do with homerism, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me names. Again, like I said in my previous post, your reactions in this thread are making it more and more clear that you don't know much about football.

It actually could of been of been a quick fix, draft bridgewater and you're in contention for the division. Now you're in danger of not having a qb or andre. It might not be a rebuild, but you're not a complete team. You will probably end up like last year and searching for a qb. Not taking Bridgewater and starting Fitz just makes the team a year older before you can get serious about contending. Tom Savage is a longshot who may never start so it's in all likely likelyhood a waste of a year for the Texans, just stating the facts.

[Superman]

Yes, when a player exhibits a me-first attitude and expresses tons of doubt in what is supposed to be a positive, changing locker room then he has become a cancer. Of course I understand his perspective, but he has been with us for a long time, he has signed his contracts, took his money, become the top and remains one of the top receivers in the NFL with mediocre quarterback play at times and dealing with a coach who many say was predictable and played favorites. Now, when we get a guy who knows how he wants to win and is a no-nonsense kind of guy, and are adding more weapons to the defense than we've ever had, he suddenly wants to go? And he had to say so after we were already done with the Draft, so we had no chance to try and add to our receiving core knowing that he wanted out? Going to Denver or New England or even Carolina doesn't guarantee that he'll get a ring. Yes, he may be more likely to get one there, but what is he going to do if he goes to Denver and Manning retires in two years? When Osweiler comes on-board will he demand another trade because of the change of direction? I love the guy, he is the best player in franchise history but think about it: If Andrew declared he wanted to play for the 49ers and not the Colts anymore because he didn't believe in the offensive line or defense, how would you feel? It's a player saying "me first" over his teammates. Andre has the right to be upset but so do Texan fans.

 

Being upset is different from trying to change history.

 

I'm also not sure why your locker room is supposed to be positive and changing. Because you hired a new coach? That's not how it works. 

 

And saying AJ wants to leave the Texans to go get a guaranteed ring is LOL worthy. You're framing the topic in a way to make him look as bad as possible, while ignoring what he really wants. 

 

Also, 25 year old Andrew Luck wanting to leave the team that's being built around him is entirely different from 33 year old Andre Johnson wanting to leave the team that's floundered in mediocrity (at best) for his entire 11 year career. I'm not trying to take a dig at the Texans; I actually like what they're doing, for the most part, as I've mentioned since the season ended. I think they should have traded AJ a long time ago, and maybe even cut or traded Arian Foster (who is one of my favorite backs in the game). Maybe by waiting for him to blow his lid, they've won the PR battle (rather than making it their choice to move him, they've made it his choice, and now the fans turn on him instead of management).

 

Doesn't change that the Texans and AJ really aren't right for each other anymore. I don't see why him acknowledging that makes him a traitor or a cancer. 

[Qwiz]

It actually could of been of been a quick fix, draft bridgewater and you're in contention for the division. Now you're in danger of not having a qb or andre. It might not be a rebuild, but you're not a complete team. You will probably end up like last year and searching for a qb. Not taking Bridgewater and starting Fitz just makes the team a year older before you can get serious about contending. Tom Savage is a longshot who may never start so it's in all likely likelyhood a waste of a year for the Texans, just stating the facts.

If this year is a waste like you said, there are plenty of quarterback prospects coming out next year that we can take a look at. Bridgewater wasn't a do or die player for us. I just don't see how us giving up two picks that we need to fill out the team in order to grab a quarterback who may not have even started for us makes sense. Savage may be a longshot but hey, who knows, he might not see the field in his time here. He was a fourth-round selection so it's not like it is a big deal.

[BloodyChamp]

Him and Case Keenum balling on Indy for those 2 quarters last season was like a long lost 90s Brett Favre half of football. How did they blow that game? O yeah...their coach had a stroke.

I hope he ends up happy somewhere. He deserves it.

So this means the new coach and quarterback has already lost the team? 3-13 coming up.

[Qwiz]

Being upset is different from trying to change history.

 

I'm also not sure why your locker room is supposed to be positive and changing. Because you hired a new coach? That's not how it works. 

 

And saying AJ wants to leave the Texans to go get a guaranteed ring is LOL worthy. You're framing the topic in a way to make him look as bad as possible, while ignoring what he really wants. 

 

Also, 25 year old Andrew Luck wanting to leave the team that's being built around him is entirely different from 33 year old Andre Johnson wanting to leave the team that's floundered in mediocrity (at best) for his entire 11 year career. I'm not trying to take a dig at the Texans; I actually like what they're doing, for the most part, as I've mentioned since the season ended. I think they should have traded AJ a long time ago, and maybe even cut or traded Arian Foster (who is one of my favorite backs in the game). Maybe by waiting for him to blow his lid, they've won the PR battle (rather than making it their choice to move him, they've made it his choice, and now the fans turn on him instead of management).

 

Doesn't change that the Texans and AJ really aren't right for each other anymore. I don't see why him acknowledging that makes him a traitor or a cancer. 

Glad to make you laugh.

I know that just hiring a new coach doesn't make things automatically better. But hearing about the positives from the players themselves, many of whom are learning new positions and doing things that they couldn't do while Kubiak here, is a sign of good things to come. I'm sorry for being positive about my team and our new coach.

I'm not framing Andre to be this sort of bad guy. Why else would he be leaving us if not for a ring? His comments about the situation speak for themselves. Like I've said already, the guy was one of my favorite players but when a player turns his back on the team and wants to go, it is not going to leave a good taste in anyone's mouth. I don't see how us letting Foster go would help things at all so not sure what you're getting at there.

But no, the situations aren't all that different. Andrew has been running for his life since he got to Indianapolis and Andre has been dealing with mediocrity as well. What you said though is key here: The team being built around him. Andre is about to see what is sure to become one of the best Texan defenses he's ever seen. We got a true number two guy to help him out, we got an offensive-minded coach who is good with quarterbacks, and we got a guy who is smart enough and good enough to win us games and act as game manager. Why should the fans turn on management? What have they done wrong? They're adding pieces to our team, they got rid of the coach that a lot of people here didn't like, and they are trying and have been trying to keep a clearly disgruntled Andre Johnson. The guy deserves to win; doesn't mean the process had to be as public and as messy as it has been. I don't see why it's a bad thing for us to feel bad about this. People feel bad about things like this no matter what, even if they do make sense.

[Superman]

Of course not. I'm just saying that you don't always need a great quarterback to win games. Our defense is going to be good enough for us to have a game manager in there ala Mark Sanchez or Alex Smith. And I'd take Fitzpatrick over Mark Sanchez any day of the week.

 

Mark Sanchez isn't a game manager; he's a bad starting QB. Just because the Jets defense was still good enough to win doesn't make him a game manager. And Alex Smith is considerably better than Ryan Fitzpatrick. What makes him a prototype game manager is that he doesn't turn the ball over, unlike Fitzpatrick.

 

I think AJ wanted Manziel or Bortles. I'm not sure either of them would have been better than Fitzpatrick (coached by O'Brien) in 2014. But Fitzpatrick doesn't really portray the type of aspiring to greatness that a 33 year old All Pro receiver would like to see. I like what the Texans are doing, but they don't have a reliable QB at this point, and that's the biggest thing in the NFL. 

[southwest1]

Can you blame him? The most glaring weakness on the team was QB, and they filled it with Ryan Fitzpatrick. He wants a chance at a ring

Yes, no one would argue that valid point Jvan, but the issue here is 2 fold: 1. Johnson has pulled this dis satisfaction crap before with the Texans which now has reached my boiling point & 2. It really boils down to how much faith Johnson has in new HC Bill O'Brien who did decent work at Penn State IMHO. 

 

Me...I play hardball right now with Andre. You either play for Houston or you retire from the NFL. It's as simple as that. I am tired of his whining. He needs to shut the hades up & play for Houston. That team is loaded with talent & should be able to make the playoffs without too much difficulty IMO. 

[Qwiz]

Him and Case Keenum balling on Indy for those 2 quarters last season was like a long lost 90s Brett Favre half of football. How did they blow that game? O yeah...their coach had a stroke.

I hope he ends up happy somewhere. He deserves it.

So this means the new coach and quarterback has already lost the team? 3-13 coming up.

That's the thing. They haven't lost the team they have lost the desire of one player.

[Loneranger]

Good riddance.

If you are a Texan fan and I know that you are, I think you have to look at it that way. He has a big salary and he has been productive but he will be tailing off. Better to spend the money on someone much younger who wants to be there.

[Qwiz]

Mark Sanchez isn't a game manager; he's a bad starting QB. Just because the Jets defense was still good enough to win doesn't make him a game manager. And Alex Smith is considerably better than Ryan Fitzpatrick. What makes him a prototype game manager is that he doesn't turn the ball over, unlike Fitzpatrick.

 

I think AJ wanted Manziel or Bortles. I'm not sure either of them would have been better than Fitzpatrick (coached by O'Brien) in 2014. But Fitzpatrick doesn't really portray the type of aspiring to greatness that a 33 year old All Pro receiver would like to see. I like what the Texans are doing, but they don't have a reliable QB at this point, and that's the biggest thing in the NFL. 

And bad starting quarterbacks can be game managers. You're splitting hairs here. He was good enough to be able to stand back there and let the defense carry him to back to back AFC Championship Games. I never said Fitzpatrick was better than Alex Smith, and I would rather have the latter of course. But beggars can't be choosers. Us taking a rookie who may or may not have performed up to standard is a tricky thing to debate, while I'm sure many would say that it is safer taking a veteran who can get the job done and has before in the past. The turnovers are ridiculous (and I know it's ironic we replaced Schaub with him) but that's what coaches are for. I lobbyed for Manziel but it didn't happen so I'm over it. If he would have come here I would have been more confident but that doesn't mean I would have been right. I hope Andre feels confident wherever he ends up, if we do wind up letting him go.

[Qwiz]

If you are a Texan fan and I know that you are, I think you have to look at it that way. He has a big salary and he has been productive but he will be tailing off. Better to spend the money on someone much younger who wants to be there.

Yeah, if he even steps on the field we will know that he doesn't care and doesn't want to be productive. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I don't know of many young receivers in the NFL who can match his production but thanks for understanding my sentiment.

[Yoshinator]

Yes, no one would argue that valid point Jvan, but the issue here is 2 fold: 1. Johnson has pulled this dis satisfaction crap before with the Texans which now has reached my boiling point & 2. It really boils down to how much faith Johnson has in new HC Bill O'Brien who did decent work at Penn State IMHO. 

 

Me...I play hardball right now with Andre. You either play for Houston or you retire from the NFL. It's as simple as that. I am tired of his whining. He needs to shut the hades up & play for Houston. That team is loaded with talent & should be able to make the playoffs without too much difficulty IMO. 

The problem with this is that Andre is an established player. I truly believe if you do this with him, he will retire for a year and then sign with a contender to try and win a Super Bowl. He doesn't need to play a year where he doesn't think he has a chance of winning. Best to get a mid-rounder for him.

[Superman]

Glad to make you laugh.

I know that just hiring a new coach doesn't make things automatically better. But hearing about the positives from the players themselves, many of whom are learning new positions and doing things that they couldn't do while Kubiak here, is a sign of good things to come. I'm sorry for being positive about my team and our new coach.

I'm not framing Andre to be this sort of bad guy. Why else would he be leaving us if not for a ring? His comments about the situation speak for themselves. Like I've said already, the guy was one of my favorite players but when a player turns his back on the team and wants to go, it is not going to leave a good taste in anyone's mouth. I don't see how us letting Foster go would help things at all so not sure what you're getting at there.

But no, the situations aren't all that different. Andrew has been running for his life since he got to Indianapolis and Andre has been dealing with mediocrity as well. What you said though is key here: The team being built around him. Andre is about to see what is sure to become one of the best Texan defenses he's ever seen. We got a true number two guy to help him out, we got an offensive-minded coach who is good with quarterbacks, and we got a guy who is smart enough and good enough to win us games and act as game manager. Why should the fans turn on management? What have they done wrong? They're adding pieces to our team, they got rid of the coach that a lot of people here didn't like, and they are trying and have been trying to keep a clearly disgruntled Andre Johnson. The guy deserves to win; doesn't mean the process had to be as public and as messy as it has been. I don't see why it's a bad thing for us to feel bad about this. People feel bad about things like this no matter what, even if they do make sense.

 

Yeah, you're having trouble with this. It's hard to see why.

 

1) The new coach always sounds impressive in July. I think O'Brien is a good hire, and being excited is appropriate at this point, but do you really not understand why that's not enough to appease a 33 year old veteran? Texans fans were excited about Kubiak, and it still took 6 years to make the playoffs. AJ has seen this movie before.

 

2) AJ wants to leave to play for a better team. No NFL player thinks that changing teams guarantees them a ring, but most NFL players know the difference between a team with a real chance at a ring, and a team that would be lucky to go .500. The way you're twisting his intentions is transparent.

 

3) Letting go of Foster would save a ton of cap space over the next three years, and at a position that's not super important for a winning franchise. Just a peripheral point.

 

4) It's entirely different from Andrew Luck hypothetically wanting to leave, for several reasons, the most important being that the Colts are actually contending, unlike the Texans. That's a really weak angle you're taking. 

 

5) I don't think the fans should turn on management. I agree with what they're doing. But when a team gets rid of a fan favorite player, it always causes problems. The Panthers cutting Steve Smith is a perfect example. If the Texans cut or trade AJ at this point, it will be because he forced his way out, not because the team was ready to move on. Smart, actually, because they win the public opinion battle. But the outcome is the same; you're still moving a fan favorite, someone who has been with the team almost since its inception.

[southwest1]

of coarse he wanted a qb. You can't win without one

The 2000 Ravens won without one or a slightly average one. Their entire championship year hinged on Ray Lewis, Rod Woodson, & Shannon Sharpe. QB Trent Dilfer was not an elite QB; he just didn't turn the ball over. If Ryan Fitzpatrick practices ball security, Houston could easily make the playoffs. 

[Superman]

And bad starting quarterbacks can be game managers. You're splitting hairs here. He was good enough to be able to stand back there and let the defense carry him to back to back AFC Championship Games. I never said Fitzpatrick was better than Alex Smith, and I would rather have the latter of course. But beggars can't be choosers. Us taking a rookie who may or may not have performed up to standard is a tricky thing to debate, while I'm sure many would say that it is safer taking a veteran who can get the job done and has before in the past. The turnovers are ridiculous (and I know it's ironic we replaced Schaub with him) but that's what coaches are for. I lobbyed for Manziel but it didn't happen so I'm over it. If he would have come here I would have been more confident but that doesn't mean I would have been right. I hope Andre feels confident wherever he ends up, if we do wind up letting him go.

 

No, bad quarterbacks are bad quarterbacks. It's not splitting hairs, it's an actual distinction, and an important one. Just because the team wins doesn't elevate the QB into something he's not. Alex Smith is twice as good as Mark Sanchez ever was.

 

Fans always do this. When people talk about the importance of having a solid QB, they point to the handful of examples of teams having a measure of success with a bad QB. It happens, but in a league where QBing is so important, it's not ideal to try to put together a team that can win in spite of a bad QB. It's like proving that you can be the exception to the rule. "The Jets made the AFCCG with Mark Sanchez; why can't we with our bummy QB?" 

 

I'm not calling Fitzpatrick a bad QB, but he doesn't quite qualify as a game manager if he can't cut down on the TOs. Maybe he will under O'Brien's tutelage, but that's yet to be seen.

[Superman]

Yes, no one would argue that valid point Jvan, but the issue here is 2 fold: 1. Johnson has pulled this dis satisfaction crap before with the Texans which now has reached my boiling point & 2. It really boils down to how much faith Johnson has in new HC Bill O'Brien who did decent work at Penn State IMHO. 

 

Me...I play hardball right now with Andre. You either play for Houston or you retire from the NFL. It's as simple as that. I am tired of his whining. He needs to shut the hades up & play for Houston. That team is loaded with talent & should be able to make the playoffs without too much difficulty IMO. 

 

To the bolded, when?

 

Also, there is a huge double standard when it comes to how fans look at players vs. teams. 

[Qwiz]

Yeah, you're having trouble with this. It's hard to see why.

 

1) The new coach always sounds impressive in July. I think O'Brien is a good hire, and being excited is appropriate at this point, but do you really not understand why that's not enough to appease a 33 year old veteran? Texans fans were excited about Kubiak, and it still took 6 years to make the playoffs. AJ has seen this movie before.

 

2) AJ wants to leave to play for a better team. No NFL player thinks that changing teams guarantees them a ring, but most NFL players know the difference between a team with a real chance at a ring, and a team that would be lucky to go .500. The way you're twisting his intentions is transparent.

 

3) Letting go of Foster would save a ton of cap space over the next three years, and at a position that's not super important for a winning franchise. Just a peripheral point.

 

4) It's entirely different from Andrew Luck hypothetically wanting to leave, for several reasons, the most important being that the Colts are actually contending, unlike the Texans. That's a really weak angle you're taking. 

 

5) I don't think the fans should turn on management. I agree with what they're doing. But when a team gets rid of a fan favorite player, it always causes problems. The Panthers cutting Steve Smith is a perfect example. If the Texans cut or trade AJ at this point, it will be because he forced his way out, not because the team was ready to move on. Smart, actually, because they win the public opinion battle. But the outcome is the same; you're still moving a fan favorite, someone who has been with the team almost since its inception.

1. Of course. But abandoning ship now when he has no idea what the guy has to offer is troublesome. Again, the pieces are being put together on this team, and it will be better than anything he's seen before. It's not just about Bill O'Brien.

 

2. The Texans won the division two out of the past three years. Now our team is looking to be better than either of those Texans teams. Who's to say we don't shock the world like you guys did or the Chiefs? Who's to say the Broncos don't take a step back or, like I said before, Brady or Manning retires and Andre wants to switch teams again because he doesn't like the teams' chances of getting to the big game? My intentions are out there and clear for everybody to see so there is nothing that needs to be declared as transparent.

 

3. Yeah, but when healthy he is one of the best in the game. I understand what you're saying though, it would be looking at the future instead of now, but I think BOB is of the mindset that he wants to win now not later. And the fans are starved to win again.

 

4. Again, won the division two out of the past three years. I know you guys were hopeful about getting the division back sooner rather than later (and, I was here, many said it would happen in 2012 and some said 2013, the latter being correct, and not many of them were hammered and told that they were wrong about it) and you did. We are hoping for the same and as far as Andre or anyone else knows we could be right. Our defense is being prepared to be a major factor so to say we aren't going to be contending is just conjecture at this point.

 

5. Yes, they win the PR battle, but the Texans truly want to keep him (or wanted to, not sure of their position now). It's not some grand act to make themselves look better in the eyes of fans.

[Qwiz]

No, bad quarterbacks are bad quarterbacks. It's not splitting hairs, it's an actual distinction, and an important one. Just because the team wins doesn't elevate the QB into something he's not. Alex Smith is twice as good as Mark Sanchez ever was.

 

Fans always do this. When people talk about the importance of having a solid QB, they point to the handful of examples of teams having a measure of success with a bad QB. It happens, but in a league where QBing is so important, it's not ideal to try to put together a team that can win in spite of a bad QB. It's like proving that you can be the exception to the rule. "The Jets made the AFCCG with Mark Sanchez; why can't we with our bummy QB?" 

 

I'm not calling Fitzpatrick a bad QB, but he doesn't quite qualify as a game manager if he can't cut down on the TOs. Maybe he will under O'Brien's tutelage, but that's yet to be seen.

And bad quarterbacks can be game managers. I'm not sure what you would classify the difference as, and I'm not entirely sure if you think a bad quarterback is better or worse than a game manager. I'm doing nothing that I haven't seen done here or on any other message boards. You're right; Fans always do these sorts of things. How many "Howell can easily replace Bethea, Bethea was a step behind anyway" or "Trent just needed an offseason, he'll be a beast this year" or " Da'Rick Rogers is gonna prove people wrong and he is actually a steal, he's a better wide receiver than people realize". This happens. Fans are always optimistic about their guys, but when one guy is let go or traded, it's always the next man up mentality and the guy that was let go is suddenly the worst in the world. I don't have this mindset with Andre or Schaub. I don't think Andre will be easily replaced at all. Nor do I think we can expect to see the same consistency from Fitzpatrick that Schaub had for years before last year. But I can indeed be optimistic about it because, like you said, nothing has been seen yet. And yet I'm not optimistic at all about the prospect of losing Andre.

[southwest1]

To the bolded, when?

 

Also, there is a huge double standard when it comes to how fans look at players vs. teams. 

I recall very well how in season's past he wanted more money & almost threatened holding out until he was compensated as an elite WR. I'm old school; you prove your worth on the field production wise, you show up to OTAs & minicamp, & the money itself will fall into place in the end. 

 

I don't give a darn about double standards Superman. Johnson is under contract. Where I come from, elite WR disgruntled or not, you show up to work. You do this to demonstrate professionalism & respect for your teammates & ownership, who has treated Andre exceptionally well. 

[Nobody]

I agree but in fairness not sure what Houston was supposed to do. If they didn't see their guy to be had by a trade or in the draft then best to wait. That being said, I don't blame Johnson for not wanting to go through a rebuild at this stage of his career.

They should have traded up into the first if they didn't like the selection of QBs in the second, or else taken a Garoppolo (sp?) or Carr at 34. Houston seriously needs to address QB because Savage is not good.

[colts8718]

With Fitzpatrict at QB  I would to

 

[Kyle]

Andre Johnson for Ryan Mallett and a 3rd round pick

[Nobody]

It doesn't make as much sense as other teams, but I really don't like Crabtree.  My personal bias snuck in there and kept them on my list

Fun fact- The reason Sherman trash talked Crabtree so much is that when they met at a party (Larry Fitzgerald I think) Crab immediately started talking about how much better he is than Sherman or something.

If someone said stuff like that to me and I showed them up so much, I'd want my props too.

Not really a relevant topic but thought I'd share.