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Ron Jaworski: "I wouldn't take Manziel in the first three rounds."

Dustin

By Dustin
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NFLfan Ring of Honor

NFLfan

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He'll be the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf...if some team is dumb enough to ignore Jaworski's correct assessment. One too many clean shots to that frail body of his and he'll go the way of Robert Griffin III, soon to be the second biggest bust since Ryan Leaf.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are being facetious. There are so many other QBs who could be the "second biggest bust since Ryan Leaf." Why is it that no one ever brings up Tim Couch (#1 overall) or Joey Harrington #2 overall)? I'd say the aforementioned Jamarcus Russell would be first. Then there are quarterbacks that are frequently mentioned like David Klingler(#7?), Akili Smith (#3?), and Vincent Young (#3?). David Carr (#1 overall) and Byron Leftwich (picked fairly high) were also disappointments. There are many from the fairly recent past that I did not name, but you get the point. There are many QBs to choose from before you get to RG3 when naming the "2nd bigger bust".

Browns fans -- there are a few of you here on this board -- why is Tim Couch NEVER mentioned as a bust? Why???

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Surge89 Walk On

Surge89

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The thing that bothers me about people hating Manziel is that it makes no sense. A large majority of it comes from things that were out of his control. If your dad bought you court side seats for Mavericks games and the NBA Finals would you turn them down? If the San Diego Padres ask you to throw out the first pitch would you say no? Getting kicked out of the Manning Academy was his fault, but the coverage of it was completely overblown by ESPN. The World Wide Leader covered his every move extensively this off-season. For some reason people got mad for the way he celebrated TD's on the field. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that he comes from money and he isn't an emotionless robot like everyone wants athletes to be.

 

I'm not sure why you are adamant at defending him.  He doesn't play the game like Wilson he plays much more like Griffin.  And he will fail, just like Griffin.  His mind isn't in the game and most likely will be out of the NFL within 4 years because of some dumb off the field issue.  I live in Texas and see him up close.  He is a joke.  He had a smug attitude the minute he had the name Johnny Football.  It isn't media over hype in fact the media takes a blind eye to a whole bunch of the dumb stuff he does off the field.  He isn't a good person and I wish him to fail and live a normal life of a unprivileged individual.

 

Rant off...

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Narcosys Practice Squad

Narcosys

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Funny, because the night before he had dinner with the Manning's, and after dinner Johnny, AJ and the Manning's all went to the same bar. And you're surprised that the dorkiest QB's in the NFL invited "Johnny Goofball" to their camp? He was the Heisman Trophy winner and will be a top 8 pick this year in the draft.

He was also seen out late that night with AJ McCarron, and his reported "illness" was that he was dehydrated.  Gee i wonder why.  Drink to much?

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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ESPN's Ron Jaworski says Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel "won't last three games" in the NFL playing the way he did in college.

"He’s a random quarterback who likes to get out of the pocket and make plays with his legs," Jaws said. "In the NFL, he won’t last three games playing that style. He’ll get hurt. He took a lot of vicious hits at A&M in the last two years." This comes after Jaws said he wouldn't take Manziel "in the first three rounds" of May's draft. ESPN's QB guru says Manziel has developed such a habit of leaving the pocket that NFL teams may not be able to coach it out of him. Jaws also cited inconsistent mechanics. Manziel's still going to be an early first-rounder.

 

Thank you for posting that.

 

This is where Jaws makes no sense. Favre played the exact same way and Big Ben as well. This idea that Manziel is going to get killed is just silly. And what QB coming out of college has consistent mechanics? He was reaching with that one.

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DougDew Ring of Honor

DougDew

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Thank you for posting that.

 

This is where Jaws makes no sense. Favre played the exact same way and Big Ben as well. This idea that Manziel is going to get killed is just silly. And what QB coming out of college has consistent mechanics? He was reaching with that one.

 

Brett Fav..re and Beg Ben are much, much bigger and stouter.  I don't think the doubting of Manziel comes strictly from his style of play, it comes from his style of play combined with his lack of size.  He is also notably skinnier than Russell Wilson.  Like Manziel, RG3 is thin framed.  His style worked for nearly a whole season, but it took one hit to maybe change his whole game.  I think GM's may see that and realize a 4 year contract at maximum investment is not worth the gamble.  But somebody will take him in round 1. 

 

In the NFL, it comes down to being able to read defenses and being accurate from the pocket (where the protection is), as well as pocket awareness as another has mentioned.  If he can do those things he can be very successful, but none of the reports indicate that accuracy and decision making are his strong points.  Perhaps that's what Jaws sees in those 5 games (which even he said was too few games for a real evaluation)

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BleedBlu8792 Walk On

BleedBlu8792

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Jaws could have given better credit than that. I'm not a huge fan of Manziel, but I think his potential to be good is there. Where he will succeed or fail is if he has "it" between the ears.

Manziel had outstanding games against Alabama. If there is ANY team in college football that can test a QB, a young one at that, Alabama is the team to do it. Saban was throwing everything at him and he handled it very well. Sure, he had his bad games, a la Missouri late in the season, but ALL QB's do during their college careers especially early on.

Again, its going to be the intangibles that are going to determine his career. Does he have the heart/mental fortitude to make his NFL career last longer than his rookie contract?

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Valpo2004 Active Roster

Valpo2004

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Funny, because the night before he had dinner with the Manning's, and after dinner Johnny, AJ and the Manning's all went to the same bar. And you're surprised that the dorkiest QB's in the NFL invited "Johnny Goofball" to their camp? He was the Heisman Trophy winner and will be a top 8 pick this year in the draft.

 

That may be true, but word was that the Mannings and everyone else left the bar a long time before Manziel left.  They didn't have hangovers in the morning and he did.

 

Also Manziel got a parking ticket before football season even started and tweeted about how he couldn't wait to leave.

 

He also got in a fight with one of the managers during the spring game.  

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ÅÐØNϧ 1 Practice Squad

ÅÐØNϧ 1

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Jaws Nailed him hard.

He is a sophomore.

He is immature.

He throws off his feet when he runs.

He must learn NOT to run when they need a pass.

He is headed for the NFL not eh LNF or the FLN.

 

Jaws only watched 5 games .  A small sampling of Manziels work means IMO Jaws should watch the rest if his games , That way his opinion might mean something .

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Track Guy Walk On

Track Guy

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He'll be the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf...if some team is dumb enough to ignore Jaworski's correct assessment. One too many clean shots to that frail body of his and he'll go the way of Robert Griffin III, soon to be the second biggest bust since Ryan Leaf.

 

*None of them will pass JaMarcus Russell as the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf lol

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pacolts56 Active Roster

pacolts56

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I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are being facetious. There are so many other QBs who could be the "second biggest bust since Ryan Leaf." Why is it that no one ever brings up Tim Couch (#1 overall) or Joey Harrington #2 overall)? I'd say the aforementioned Jamarcus Russell would be first. Then there are quarterbacks that are frequently mentioned like David Klingler(#7?), Akili Smith (#3?), and Vincent Young (#3?). David Carr (#1 overall) and Byron Leftwich (picked fairly high) were also disappointments. There are many from the fairly recent past that I did not name, but you get the point. There are many QBs to choose from before you get to RG3 when naming the "2nd bigger bust".

Browns fans -- there are a few of you here on this board -- why is Tim Couch NEVER mentioned as a bust? Why???

 

 

*None of them will pass JaMarcus Russell as the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf lol

All good examples....and NFLfan...Couch does get a pass in the discussion all too often. And yes, in fairness to Ryan Leaf....not that he deserves any....I agree Jamarcus Russell is the biggest bust ever for the 34M guaranteed $$$ he collected from Al Davis, and promptly squandered, by the way. So Russell indeed stands alone at the top.

 

And it's probably a bit of a stretch to label RGIII the 2nd biggest bust, especially with his situation involving injury....which I normally consider a mitigating circumstance for top-level draft picks who fail or simply can't continue such as our own Steve Emtman years back.

 

But in RGIII's case we do have to factor in a stratospheric pre-draft hype level that was every bit as driven by his speed and elusiveness as a lethal weapon as anything else. Can he throw a nice spiral 60-70 yards and did he do so at Baylor? Sure he did...but that ability isn't unheard of for Top 5-10 QB prospects. The magazine-thin, nearly crayon-drawn Baylor playbook, if one could call it a playbook, was all but ignored and Griffin's snap's-under-center inexperience got some mention, but not nearly enough.

 

And neither Griffin nor the Shanahans did anything to dissuade RGIII's primary asset of running and speed, and indeed dangerously but willingly played that card....and now the young man's NFL career hangs in the balance of probably one more square shot to the knees. So yes....there are plenty of candidates other than RGIII for the 2nd biggest bust in NFL history, but nearly none of them were ushered in with a hype level RGIII had.

 

Spinning it forward to Johnny Manziel....he's smaller than Griffin, not nearly as fast or elusive as Griffin, unproven as a pure pocket QB if the need dictates, and he improvised at the college level in a way that NFL defensive coordinators...by virtue of RGIII and Colin Kaepernick....will no longer be surprised. With less of a skill-set than either of them to do so.

 

Manziel has done little or nothing to tone down his own hype-machine, he's invoked Russell Wilson's name as some sort of comparison when actually, Wilson is very good as a drop-back passer who also happens to have very good mobility.

 

None of us know for sure how it will turn out....good, bad or somewhere in between....however, this flashy college hot shot hype is not a new scenario.

 

But is it possible that like Leaf, Russell, Couch and Akili Smith....Manziel churns out all these college highlights and then proceeds to fall flat on his face in the NFL? And from what we know and hear about Manziel's off the field activity, is it plausible he could just as easily wind up being an embarrassment beyond the football field?

 

In the spirit of this photo-happy thread....does a bear......

bear_zpse7f276ef.jpg

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Jay Kirk Walk On

Jay Kirk

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All good examples....and NFLfan...Couch does get a pass in the discussion all too often. And yes, in fairness to Ryan Leaf....not that he deserves any....I agree Jamarcus Russell is the biggest bust ever for the 34M guaranteed $$$ he collected from Al Davis, and promptly squandered, by the way. So Russell indeed stands alone at the top.

 

And it's probably a bit of a stretch to label RGIII the 2nd biggest bust, especially with his situation involving injury....which I normally consider a mitigating circumstance for top-level draft picks who fail or simply can't continue such as our own Steve Emtman years back.

 

But in RGIII's case we do have to factor in a stratospheric pre-draft hype level that was every bit as driven by his speed and elusiveness as a lethal weapon as anything else. Can he throw a nice spiral 60-70 yards and did he do so at Baylor? Sure he did...but that ability isn't unheard of for Top 5-10 QB prospects. The magazine-thin, nearly crayon-drawn Baylor playbook, if one could call it a playbook, was all but ignored and Griffin's snap's-under-center inexperience got some mention, but not nearly enough.

 

And neither Griffin nor the Shanahans did anything to dissuade RGIII's primary asset of running and speed, and indeed dangerously but willingly played that card....and now the young man's NFL career hangs in the balance of probably one more square shot to the knees. So yes....there are plenty of candidates other than RGIII for the 2nd biggest bust in NFL history, but nearly none of them were ushered in with a hype level RGIII had.

 

Spinning it forward to Johnny Manziel....he's smaller than Griffin, not nearly as fast or elusive as Griffin, unproven as a pure pocket QB if the need dictates, and he improvised at the college level in a way that NFL defensive coordinators...by virtue of RGIII and Colin Kaepernick....will no longer be surprised. With less of a skill-set than either of them to do so.

 

Manziel has done little or nothing to tone down his own hype-machine, he's invoked Russell Wilson's name as some sort of comparison when actually, Wilson is very good as a drop-back passer who also happens to have very good mobility.

 

None of us know for sure how it will turn out....good, bad or somewhere in between....however, this flashy college hot shot hype is not a new scenario.

 

But is it possible that like Leaf, Russell, Couch and Akili Smith....Manziel churns out all these college highlights and then proceeds to fall flat on his face in the NFL? And from what we know and hear about Manziel's off the field activity, is it plausible he could just as easily wind up being an embarrassment beyond the football field?

 

In the spirit of this photo-happy thread....does a bear......

bear_zpse7f276ef.jpg

Lol is a Frogs A..  waterproof ?

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pacolts56 Active Roster

pacolts56

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OK....that is hilarious.....my regards.... :)

 

Some of those busts were absolutely terrific college QBs....a shame that has to happen really.

True.

 

And it's easy for us to sit here and lob our grenades, but it's too bad when a GM whiffs on a franchise QB. It winds up being the top line of their resume until they atone for it....if they even get the chance.

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BrentMc11 Walk On

BrentMc11

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True.

 

And it's easy for us to sit here and lob our grenades, but it's too bad when a GM whiffs on a franchise QB. It winds up being the top line of their resume until they atone for it....if they even get the chance.

Yes and the SAME franchises repeatedly whiff too....Cleveland just leads the league in strikeouts  :spit:

 

I am fresh out of LIKES!  I shall return :)

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BrentMc11 Walk On

BrentMc11

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By a mile....GMs, coaches, owners, football, baseball, basketball...they just can't seem to catch a break.

 

Oh well....there's always the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame!! :rock:

HA!  Yes there is!

 

Cleveland deserves better IMO....I used to spend a lot of time there.

 

At least the Indians are getting good again :)

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Patagonia Chris Practice Squad

Patagonia Chris

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I have a lot of people to reply to so I'll just do it all in one post.

 

The reason I'm so adamantly defending Manziel is because I can't understand why grown men are so adamantly hoping that the kid fails. He hasn't done anything that isn't typical of any other kid his age. As far as going out drinking at the Manning Camp, I've read that a lot of the counselors who go to the camp regularly head to Bourbon Street while they're there. Manziel messed up, but was it really a big deal? NO. ESPN made the story a lot bigger than it was. The thing that speaks measures about Manziel is that despite all of the attention in the off season he came out this season and had a better season than he did when he won the Heisman Trophy with a worse supporting cast. Obviously the kid was focused on football during the off season, at this time last year no one thought he would be a first round pick if he came out after this season. Can you blame him for wanting to leave Texas A&M? He couldn't even go to class without being swarmed by students. There was an issue over Texas A&M giving him his replica of the Heisman Trophy. He made that school a fortune with booster donations, and lord knows how many #2 jerseys and t-shirts they sold while he was there, and he almost gets screwed for making $15K on autographs? Hard to imagine especially since the schools chancellor said he should be paid. The kid even had to get a police escort home after games. When he arrives to the NFL, I truly believe he will have less pressure on him than he did at A&M. I know there is a chance he could fail, there is that possibility with anyone in the draft. If I was a GM though the QB I'd want the most in this draft would be Johnny Football.

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Jay Kirk Walk On

Jay Kirk

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I have a lot of people to reply to so I'll just do it all in one post.

 

The reason I'm so adamantly defending Manziel is because I can't understand why grown men are so adamantly hoping that the kid fails. He hasn't done anything that isn't typical of any other kid his age. As far as going out drinking at the Manning Camp, I've read that a lot of the counselors who go to the camp regularly head to Bourbon Street while they're there. Manziel messed up, but was it really a big deal? NO. ESPN made the story a lot bigger than it was. The thing that speaks measures about Manziel is that despite all of the attention in the off season he came out this season and had a better season than he did when he won the Heisman Trophy with a worse supporting cast. Obviously the kid was focused on football during the off season, at this time last year no one thought he would be a first round pick if he came out after this season. Can you blame him for wanting to leave Texas A&M? He couldn't even go to class without being swarmed by students. There was an issue over Texas A&M giving him his replica of the Heisman Trophy. He made that school a fortune with booster donations, and lord knows how many #2 jerseys and t-shirts they sold while he was there, and he almost gets screwed for making $15K on autographs? Hard to imagine especially since the schools chancellor said he should be paid. The kid even had to get a police escort home after games. When he arrives to the NFL, I truly believe he will have less pressure on him than he did at A&M. I know there is a chance he could fail, there is that possibility with anyone in the draft. If I was a GM though the QB I'd want the most in this draft would be Johnny Football.

Don't know anyone hoping he fails,most just think he will be broke within a few games or injured however you put it.Bad investment at a 1rst round pick.Dont think many doubt he has talent we just don't think he will last in this physical league !

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BrentMc11 Walk On

BrentMc11

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Don't know anyone hoping he fails,most just think he will be broke within a few games or injured however you put it.Bad investment at a 1rst round pick.Dont think many doubt he has talent we just don't think he will last in this physical league !

He looks like a toothpick out there to me...and yes he has talent as we all know...even though some are saying he does not.  Not MY NFL QB for sure!  I will stick with number 12 thank you :)

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Jay Kirk Walk On

Jay Kirk

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Darned this Like button :)  I keep hitting it anyway!!!  One popped up for Lolly.  Never say never :)

Lol .Heres a great point IMO R. Wilson is durable and has a ring,and will be a good QB.He will not however make the lasting impression on the NFL that Luck will.In all honesty when preparing for Seattle you prepare on how to get around the D.When preparing for the Colts its how do we stop or contain Luck !

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BrentMc11 Walk On

BrentMc11

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Lol .Heres a great point IMO R. Wilson is durable and has a ring,and will be a good QB.He will not however make the lasting impression on the NFL that Luck will.In all honesty when preparing for Seattle you prepare on how to get around the D.When preparing for the Colts its how do we stop or contain Luck !

Good one....kind of like ....

 

0002700031150_300X300.jpgand of course...

Western-pack-butter.jpg

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Jay Kirk Walk On

Jay Kirk

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Lol .Heres a great point IMO R. Wilson is durable and has a ring,and will be a good QB.He will not however make the lasting impression on the NFL that Luck will.In all honesty when preparing for Seattle you prepare on how to get around the D.When preparing for the Colts its how do we stop or contain Luck !

IMO J.M will not make it to either category.

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