Joe Hawley, center prospect

[Superman]

So everyone knows about Alex Mack, Evan Deitrich-Smith and Brian de la Puente. It's possible that Mack and Deitrich-Smith don't even make it to FA, and I personally think de la Puente is the third best of that group, but still good. He's probably not going to stay with the Saints, given their cap situation, but he'll probably have a price tag in the $5-6m/year range.

 

Insert Joe Hawley, a part time starter for the Falcons. He took over for Peter Konz halfway through the season last year, and the Falcons line play improved. He turns 26 next season, and he's a FA. Based on Grigson's signing of Donald Thomas last year, this is the kind of interior line signing he'd be interested in.

 

But I wanted to know more about Hawley, so I watched some of his games from last season. Then I got real nerdy and decided to chart some of his games. And for the sake of comparison I chose to chart his game against the Packers and against the Saints, so that I could also chart Deitrich-Smith (EDS) and de la Puente (BdlP), and see how they all stack up in a small sample comparison.

 

(Here's what I did: Each play is graded based on my limited knowledge of the player's responsibilities and performance, giving a grade of -2, -1, 0, +1, or +2, depending on how the player being graded handled his assignment. Most plays are a 0, because with trench play, it's often a wash; those big boys battle all game long, and there's usually only a few plays that separate a good game from a bad game. (Also, there are several plays a game for any center where he doesn't have a primary pass blocking responsibility, and he simply helps a guard on a double team. Those are mostly not a reflection of the player's ability.) I reserved -2s and +2s for extraordinary failure or success, where the player just flat out dominated or got dominated. And then the more common wins/losses are -1s and +1s. This is not overly scientific, nor is it official. It's just one fan's observation.)

 

Here are the overall grades:

Hawley vs Saints: pass block grade 0; run block grade +6; screen pass grade +1; total grade+7

BdlP vs Falcons: pass block grade +8; run block grade +4; screen pass grade +2; total grade+14

Hawley vs Packers: pass block grade +9; run block grade +6; screen grade 0; total grade +15

EDS vs Falcons: pass block grade +16; run block grade + 6; screen pass grade +3; total grade +25 

 

Something worth noting is that the Falcons defensive front was pretty terrible this season, so opposing offensive linemen didn't have a tough job most times against them. I have watched other games from EDS and BdlP, and I think they were both better against the Falcons than they were overall. So comparing Hawley's grade to their grades is probably not fair. I think Hawley's grades in both games are strong grades on their own. The other's are just outstanding in these particular games.

 

Also, I'll give the raw stats below. There were some negative plays from each player, but the positive obviously outweighed the negative. 

 

My overall analysis, for whatever it's worth -- which isn't much -- is that Hawley is a good, young center, who plays with toughness and energy. There was one pass play that I gave Hawley a -1 on because he played with poor technique and leverage, and he wound up slipping and getting pushed down. But he still stopped his man and didn't give up a pressure, finishing the play on one knee. That's the kind of attitude and grit he seems to play with. He gets to the second level with ease, he can pull block, and he can anchor against opposing linemen and turn and push them to create running lanes. He uses his hands well in pass protection (his arms are slightly longer than LTs Joe Thomas and Jake Long), and typically uses good footwork.

 

So if we can't land one of the top three guys, or if the money is too outrageous, a second tier signing of Hawley, somewhere in the range of $3m/year, would be nice. He'd be a proven NFL center who has played against some tough competition in the NFL, rather than a 4th round pick who hasn't done anything in the pros yet. The one red flag on Hawley is that he's in the PED program, having already been suspended for four games in 2012. Another suspension and he sits 8 games.

[ztboiler]

I've been looking forward to your Hawley report.  Very nice.  Looks like a viable and Grigsonesqe possibility to me.  I can absolutely picture why they wouldn't leave it to chance if they are convinced that Hawley is a player and can get him for 4/$14M like Thomas.

[The Peytonator]

Yeah I've been thinking about him as a possible under the radar signing. He would be very cheap and at worse he would push Holmes to earn his starting spot. Being 26 and just becoming a full time starter, he has probably not hit his ceiling yet, whereas BdlP has. 

[DougDew]

Very nice. If he is as good as you say, I would go $4.5mm per year, wave goodbye to Satele and McGlynn (a bout the same cap hit as both last year), call Holmes the backup C and G, and say the OL is substantially set. Reitz, Link, and Nixon can all stay or be re-signed as backups, IMO.

Draft a developmental player late and see if he could beat out one of the backups in TC.

All of this depends on if Hawley is legit, not juiced with the PED's.

[Superman]

Disclaimer: I may have missed a play or two, here or there, meaning it didn't get charted. I'm pretty sure that any good or bad plays are accounted for, so any of the plays missed probably don't have that big of an impact on my impression of the player, one way or the other.

 

Here are the raw numbers:

 

Hawley vs Saints, 67 total plays, +7

Pass blocking: -1s (7), 0s (30), +1s (7); total pass blocking grade = 0

Run blocking: -1s (2), 0s (10), +1s (8); total run blocking grade = +6

Screen plays: 0s (2), +1s (1); total screen blocking grade = +1

 

Hawley vs Packers, 66 total plays, +15

Pass blocking: -1s (3), 0s (19), +1s (12); total pass blocking grade = +9

Run blocking: -1s (2), 0s (10), +1s (8); total run blocking grade = +6

Screen plays: -1s (1), +1s (1); total screen blocking grade = 0

 

EDS vs Falcons, 70 total plays, +25

Pass blocking: -1s (3), 0s (20), +1s (15), +2s (2); total pass blocking grade = +16

Run blocking: -1s (6), 0s (9), +1s (12); total run blocking grade = +6

Screen plays: 0s (1), +1s (1), +2s (1); total screen blocking grade = +3

 

Bdlp vs Falcons, 57 total plays, +14

Pass blocking: 1s (1), 0s (20), +1s (9); total pass blocking grade = +8

Run blocking: -1s (3), 0s (14), +1s (5), +2s (1); total run blocking grade = +4

Screen plays: 0s (2), +1s (2); total screen blocking grade = +2

[Superman]

Very nice. If he is as good as you say, I would go $4.5mm per year, wave goodbye to Satele and McGlynn (a bout the same cap hit as both last year), call Holmes the backup C and G, and say the OL is substantially set. Reitz, Link, and Nixon can all stay or be re-signed as backups, IMO.

Draft a developmental player late and see if he could beat out one of the backups in TC.

All of this depends on if Hawley is legit, not juiced with the PED's.

 

We have RFA rights on Reitz; can tender him for $1.4m. And Nixon is under contract for $500k, plus we have RFA rights on him for the next two years. Link can go, if you ask me. Add some more depth at tackle (Nixon is technically a tackle, but can be a swing backup, and I like some of the later round tackle prospects in the draft, like Michael Schofield). 

 

Hawley got busted in 2012, and obviously at least once before that, since you don't get suspended until the second violation. Since then, he gets tested regularly, and hasn't had any more violations. But that is a red flag. We could put a void clause in his contract, tied to drug program violations. But it's still a concern.

[Gavin]

I dont know about the grades at this point but a couple things that jump out to me immediately about watchin this kid

 

1.Short area quickness is superb

2.Road Grader, If he stays low in his block he is a good drive blocker

3.Strong hand punch, Not what I would say is elite put better then anything Satele offers

4.Can get a bit straight legged at times, If he keeps his knees bent he does very well, Looked at his scouting report and it says he is not a natural knee bender

5.Looks like he can play both Center and Guard

6.Understands angles

 

To me in my opinion when I compare 4th round pick Joe Hawley and 2nd round pick Samson Satele its like night and day, Ill take Joe Hawley, Love this kids toughness, Noticed he got his helmet knocked off once vs the Bucs and he kept right on blocking his man, Love that toughnes and desire

[Track Guy]

It looks like he scored out as a 0.1 on PFF. Which isn't impressive, but it is way better than Satele and it's next to poor guard play. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/01/2014-free-agents-atlanta-falcons/

 

The PED thing is discouraging though.

[The Peytonator]

We have RFA rights on Reitz; can tender him for $1.4m. And Nixon is under contract for $500k, plus we have RFA rights on him for the next two years. Link can go, if you ask me. Add some more depth at tackle (Nixon is technically a tackle, but can be a swing backup, and I like some of the later round tackle prospects in the draft, like Michael Schofield). 

 

Hawley got busted in 2012, and obviously at least once before that, since you don't get suspended until the second violation. Since then, he gets tested regularly, and hasn't had any more violations. But that is a red flag. We could put a void clause in his contract, tied to drug program violations. But it's still a concern.

 

 

Also if we want to explore other options at guard, I think we could look at his linemate Garrett Reynolds to come in and battle it out with Thornton for RG. He graded out above average on PFF, is young, and would bring chemistry with Hawley if we signed them both.

 

You should grade out his performance in a couple games as well.

[Nobody]

Probably only average at this point, but like you said he's not yet 26. I don't know how PFF graded him out but I'm guessing not in the positive or we'd know more about him. The interior Atlanta line was pretty decent with him in IIRC.

Edit- PFF basically gave him a grade of league average, -.6

[Superman]

Also if we want to explore other options at guard, I think we could look at his linemate Garrett Reynolds to come in and battle it out with Thornton for RG. He graded out above average on PFF, is young, and would bring chemistry with Hawley if we signed them both.

 

You should grade out his performance in a couple games as well.

 

You should grade out his performance...

 

You reminded me of something, though. The Falcons guard play was incredibly inconsistent all year long. Before Hawley took over, and after. In the Saints game, Matt Ryan got sacked a bunch, and about half of them came from poor guard play. Unlike BdlP, who benefits from really good guard play on either side of him.

[jmac_48]

Probably only average at this point, but like you said he's not yet 26. I don't know how PFF graded him out but I'm guessing not in the positive or we'd know more about him. The interior Atlanta line was pretty decent with him in IIRC.

Edit- PFF basically gave him a grade of league average, -.6

I hate to say this but would not league average performance be better than what we have gotten from our interior line in the past two years?

 

I want to see excellence, but we can do better than a fire hydrant and a toadstool? No?

 

Edit:  Forgive me Superman, I do like what you are getting at here, even if it is only for a year or two until we can develop the younger guys, but I just think that something must be done this year especially at center or things may begin to unravel for the offense.

[Superman]

Probably only average at this point, but like you said he's not yet 26. I don't know how PFF graded him out but I'm guessing not in the positive or we'd know more about him. The interior Atlanta line was pretty decent with him in IIRC.

Edit- PFF basically gave him a grade of league average, -.6

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/01/2014-free-agent-centers/

 

PFF gave him a +0.1 on 553 snaps. That's good for 7th among FA centers with 500+ snaps. I like PFF for offensive line play, but like all of their ratings, you have to keep them in their proper perspective.

 

My thing about Hawley is that I think he still has potential to develop and improve. He's only started a season's worth of games in his four years. I like where he is now, as a slightly above average young guy who we know can play right now. And he'd be more economical than one of the top three guys.

[The Peytonator]

You should grade out his performance...

 

You reminded me of something, though. The Falcons guard play was incredibly inconsistent all year long. Before Hawley took over, and after. In the Saints game, Matt Ryan got sacked a bunch, and about half of them came from poor guard play. Unlike BdlP, who benefits from really good guard play on either side of him.

 

 

I would like to grade out players, but it's hard to find rebroadcasts without the express written consent of the NFL!

[Superman]

It looks like he scored out as a 0.1 on PFF. Which isn't impressive, but it is way better than Satele and it's next to poor guard play. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/01/2014-free-agents-atlanta-falcons/

 

The PED thing is discouraging though.

 

The PED thing is a bummer. He and his agent say it was Adderall. 

 

By the way, his agent represents a couple current Colts players, whatever that might mean.

[Superman]

I would like to grade out players, but it's hard to find rebroadcasts without the express written consent of the NFL!

 

NFL.com offers all the games for like $40. Just in case you're actually in the market.

[gacker65]

Sounds like some one to go for.

[BrentMc11]

We have RFA rights on Reitz; can tender him for $1.4m. And Nixon is under contract for $500k, plus we have RFA rights on him for the next two years. Link can go, if you ask me. Add some more depth at tackle (Nixon is technically a tackle, but can be a swing backup, and I like some of the later round tackle prospects in the draft, like Michael Schofield). 

 

Hawley got busted in 2012, and obviously at least once before that, since you don't get suspended until the second violation. Since then, he gets tested regularly, and hasn't had any more violations. But that is a red flag. We could put a void clause in his contract, tied to drug program violations. But it's still a concern.

I think Link should stay.  This past year was the first he had ever been injured.  He has always been there for others whom have fallen.  I know a lot of guys reallt do not like him, but he does play better at the guard positions.  Yes he gets 'punked' at right tackle.

 

Great write up on Hawley.  I like him better than De la Puente as well...for less.     !!!

[ztboiler]

I think Link should stay.  This past year was the first he had ever been injured.  He has always been there for others whom have fallen.  I know a lot of guys reallt do not like him, but he does play better at the guard positions.  Yes he gets 'punked' at right tackle.

 

Great write up on Hawley.  I like him better than De la Puente as well...for less.     !!!

Unless another team offers more than the minimum, I too think Link should stay and fight it out in training camp.  Much of Colts nation completely misses the importance of a guy like Link to help you patch a season together and he has gotten better the last 2 years as a guard who can get you through a game or 2 at RT if needed.  I think that Nixon has or will replace Link as a more talented swiss army knife and Link should lose his spot to young linemen that we are developing in the 8/9 spots, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be in camp because we already know how hard to cut he is.  In fact, because of availability, it wouldn't shock me if we keep Link and cut Reitz, though the talent gap obviously tilts in Reitz's favor.  

[BrentMc11]

Unless another team offers more than the minimum, I too think Link should stay and fight it out in training camp.  Much of Colts nation completely misses the importance of a guy like Link to help you patch a season together and he has gotten better the last 2 years as a guard who can get you through a game or 2 at RT if needed.  I think that Nixon has or will replace Link as a more talented swiss army knife and Link should lose his spot to young linemen that we are developing in the 8/9 spots, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be in camp because we already know how hard to cut he is.  In fact, because of availability, it wouldn't shock me if we keep Link and cut Reitz, though the talent gap obviously tilts in Reitz's favor.  

I hope you are wrong on Reitz. (Rights? )  He was misused all year.  I was shocked how well he did at LT too.

 

Great points on Link.  I also want to see what Nixon can do.  I think we caught him out of shape, and he still busted his 'tail.'  

[ztboiler]

I hope you are wrong on Reitz. (Rights? )  He was misused all year.  I was shocked how well he did at LT too.

 

Great points on Link.  I also want to see what Nixon can do.  I think we caught him out of shape, and he still busted his 'tail.'  

I really hope Reitz gets one more chance as well.  His talent has met production that last 2 years when he was healthy.  Starter talent.  However, he doesn't seem to have a knack for protecting his head during hand to hand combat. Either very bad luck and it will smooth out, or we have to accept that he is vulnerable to head injury and let him pursue a desk job.  A guy that can play T or G at his level should certainly be kept another year to find out. 

[Gavin]

I really hope Reitz gets one more chance as well.  His talent has met production that last 2 years when he was healthy.  Starter talent.  However, he doesn't seem to have a knack for protecting his head during hand to hand combat. Either very bad luck and it will smooth out, or we have to accept that he is vulnerable to head injury and let him pursue a desk job.  A guy that can play T or G at his level should certainly be kept another year to find out. 

Definitly dont was Reitz at Guard, I'd like to be able to run the ball before Luck retires and Reitz is no Power Blocker, As a backup Tackle? Sure but only in a pinch

[BrentMc11]

I really hope Reitz gets one more chance as well.  His talent has met production that last 2 years when he was healthy.  Starter talent.  However, he doesn't seem to have a knack for protecting his head during hand to hand combat. Either very bad luck and it will smooth out, or we have to accept that he is vulnerable to head injury and let him pursue a desk job.  A guy that can play T or G at his level should certainly be kept another year to find out. 

I agree.

 

If he does not work out, he was a darned good center at Western Michigan....

 

A quickie....Wiki moment......

 

Reitz was an all-state high school football player at Hamilton Southeastern High School,^[1] but he decided to play college basketball at Western Michigan University. He finished as the third all-time leading scorer and rebounder. Reitz also played in more games than any other player in WMU men's basketball history.

In his senior season, Reitz helped lead the Broncos to a Mid-American Conference West Division title and was named First Team All-MAC for both the regular season^[2] and conference tournament.^[3] Reitz was also a member of the Academic All-MAC Team.^[4]

[BrentMc11]

Definitly dont was Reitz at Guard, I'd like to be able to run the ball before Luck retires and Reitz is no Power Blocker, As a backup Tackle? Sure but only in a pinch

We ran well with Reitz at LG when he was healthy with AC...I do not see your logic on this one Gav.

[Gavin]

We ran well with Reitz at LG when he was healthy with AC...I do not see your logic on this one Gav.

I'll have to go back and watch some games then but I dont remember us running consistently with Reitz in at Guard, Will watch again and get back to ya, I could be way off

[BrentMc11]

I'll have to go back and watch some games then but I dont remember us running consistently with Reitz in at Guard, Will watch again and get back to ya, I could be way off

It HAS been a long time since Reitz started at LG and was completely healthy.  At one point he was the only lineman we had that could seal off a defensive lineman.  But then again we had Mike Tepper...Seth Olsen....Link at RT....just a horrific line over all.

 

We think the past 2 years were bad

[BrentMc11]

I'll have to go back and watch some games then but I dont remember us running consistently with Reitz in at Guard, Will watch again and get back to ya, I could be way off

Not way off....just better than you thought

[coltsfanatic24]

He's better then Satele(most centers are) but looks about average to me and only a 1 year starter. If were gonna pay for a C i would go with BDP because he's proven and has been a starter for a while now, or just start Holmes. BDP has blocked for Brees the past 3 years and has done a good job and no team throws more then the Saints.

[BrentMc11]

He's better then Satele(most centers are) but looks about average to me and only a 1 year starter. If were gonna pay for a C i would go with BDP because he's proven and has been a starter for a while now, or just start Holmes. BDP has blocked for Brees the past 3 years and has done a good job and no team throws more then the Saints.

I think for the money it might be Hawley.  Matt Ryan is a solid NFL QB.  Two years ago many on this forum compared Ryan favorably to Peyton Manning.  Sorry I was not one of them

 

I do think de la Puente has a mean streak that I thoroughly relish....time will tell.  I do not see us paying major bucks for de la Puente.  Even NO is wanting Alex Mack so he must not be that good....(According to the forum majority there)

[Nobody]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/01/2014-free-agent-centers/

PFF gave him a +0.1 on 553 snaps. That's good for 7th among FA centers with 500+ snaps. I like PFF for offensive line play, but like all of their ratings, you have to keep them in their proper perspective.

My thing about Hawley is that I think he still has potential to develop and improve. He's only started a season's worth of games in his four years. I like where he is now, as a slightly above average young guy who we know can play right now. And he'd be more economical than one of the top three guys.

Does that maybe count his time at guard? On the top FA Centers list he was a -.6 I believe. Not much of a difference either way, and seems like a very very Grigson type move.

[DougDew]

I think for the money it might be Hawley.  Matt Ryan is a solid NFL QB.  Two years ago many on this forum compared Ryan favorably to Peyton Manning.  Sorry I was not one of them

 

I do think de la Puente has a mean streak that I thoroughly relish....time will tell.  I do not see us paying major bucks for de la Puente.  Even NO is wanting Alex Mack so he must not be that good....(According to the forum majority there)

BdlP was an UDFA. Players with that kind of pedigree usually have below average size, athleticism, and talent. They get by with smarts/technique. Yes, Saturday was a UFDA, but was more of a pass-blocker in the manning led offense and not the kind of center the colts need now.

I'll take Hawley or Holmes over BdlP. Both were 4th round picks and probably have more natural strength and talent than he does, and would be a better base to work with.

[BrentMc11]

BdlP was an UDFA. Players with that kind of pedigree usually have below average size, athleticism, and talent. They get by with smarts/technique. Yes, Saturday was a UFDA, but was more of a pass-blocker in the manning led offense and not the kind of center the colts need now.

I'll take Hawley or Holmes over BdlP. Both were 4th round picks and probably have more natural strength and talent than he does, and would be a better base to work with.

Yes I have written quite a bit about that pudgy guy from North Carolina...ended up pretty good I think

 

I think it will come down to dollars and what makes 'sense.'

 

I like the Stork kid from  Florida State too, but I would be amazed if we draft a center two years in a row.  Holmes looks like he may be a better guard too...HMMMM...is this stuff fun or what?

[ztboiler]

Definitly dont was Reitz at Guard, I'd like to be able to run the ball before Luck retires and Reitz is no Power Blocker, As a backup Tackle? Sure but only in a pinch

Reitz/Castonzo ran the ball to the Left as though they were carrying it themselves......well, maybe a touch dramatic, but they were effective.

[Superman]

I'll have to go back and watch some games then but I dont remember us running consistently with Reitz in at Guard, Will watch again and get back to ya, I could be way off

 

 

It HAS been a long time since Reitz started at LG and was completely healthy.  At one point he was the only lineman we had that could seal off a defensive lineman.  But then again we had Mike Tepper...Seth Olsen....Link at RT....just a horrific line over all.

 

We think the past 2 years were bad

 

Reitz hardly played last year, but I thought he played well. 

[Superman]

He's better then Satele(most centers are) but looks about average to me and only a 1 year starter. If were gonna pay for a C i would go with BDP because he's proven and has been a starter for a while now, or just start Holmes. BDP has blocked for Brees the past 3 years and has done a good job and no team throws more then the Saints.

 

From what I've seen, BdlP is benefiting tremendously from having Jahri Evans and Ben Grubbs on either side of him. He's not very powerful in the running game, but he does well in the passing game.

 

I'm more concerned about having a good run blocker at center, someone who can open up holes in the middle. The pass blocking will be fine, I think. 

 

BdlP is definitely a more proven player, and as such, is going to cost more. If the money was the same, I'd go with him. But I think Hawley will be available for half the cost.

 

And then I'm kind of confused at how you see BdlP as being more proven, but then default back to Holmes over someone who at least has playing time in the NFL.

[Valpo2004]

Does anyone have a PFF ranking on Howley?

[Superman]

Does anyone have a PFF ranking on Howley?

 

+0.1 on 553 snaps

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/01/2014-free-agent-centers/

[BrentMc11]

Reitz hardly played last year, but I thought he played well. 

I was going back when he was healthy the year before.  No he did not play much last year...and as we both have stated should have been utilized other than the infamous 'jumbo' package.

[Valpo2004]

+0.1 on 553 snaps

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/01/2014-free-agent-centers/

 

I'm guessing that's a lot better then Satele.  And because he's somewhat unproven you could probably bring him in here for fairly cheap.

 

Bad news of that is that also because he's unproven I doubt Grigson would cut Satele for him.  

 

But overall I like the idea.  A fairly cheap contract for a guy that is young and likely to only get better.  

[Superman]

I'm guessing that's a lot better then Satele.  And because he's somewhat unproven you could probably bring him in here for fairly cheap.

 

Bad news of that is that also because he's unproven I doubt Grigson would cut Satele for him.  

 

But overall I like the idea.  A fairly cheap contract for a guy that is young and likely to only get better.  

 

I think Grigson should cut Satele regardless, even if it's to hand it over to Holmes. There's just little justification for keeping him. 

 

If we bring in Hawley, or a top tier guy, or a one year vet (like Goodwin), that's even better, if you ask me, since we haven't seen anything from Holmes yet.