Joe Hawley, center prospect

[Valpo2004]

I think Grigson should cut Satele regardless, even if it's to hand it over to Holmes. There's just little justification for keeping him. 

 

If we bring in Hawley, or a top tier guy, or a one year vet (like Goodwin), that's even better, if you ask me, since we haven't seen anything from Holmes yet. 

 

Well that's the thing, I just don't think Grigson would be willing to hand it over to 2 unknowns.  (Hawley & Holmes).  Maybe he brings in older vet on a 1 year deal.  

 

Honestly I wouldn't mind it if you just got a guard to replace McGlynn and hung onto him as our insurance policy at center.  He's a heck of a lot cheaper then Satele and slightly more effective.

[Superman]

Well that's the thing, I just don't think Grigson would be willing to hand it over to 2 unknowns.  (Hawley & Holmes).  Maybe he brings in older vet on a 1 year deal.  

 

Honestly I wouldn't mind it if you just got a guard to replace McGlynn and hung onto him as our insurance policy at center.  He's a heck of a lot cheaper then Satele and slightly more effective.

 

I don't think Hawley is an unknown. He's a young player who has started 19 games in four seasons, and played in another dozen games or so. There's plenty of tape on him, just like there was tape on part time starter Donald Thomas last year.

 

I could see him bringing in an older vet, just as a stopgap insurance policy for Holmes. I'm starting to warm up to that idea as well.

 

It's time to let McGlynn go. He's a FA, and he hasn't played well here. It's one thing to let a cheap veteran finish his contract, and it's another to re-sign him.

 

Fixing the interior line play has to be priority #1. Can't keep treating it like a chemistry experiment. I firmly believe that good line play takes time, and sometimes very average players can combine to make a good blocking unit, but Satele and McGlynn are very below average. They need to leave town.

[ztboiler]

I don't think Hawley is an unknown. He's a young player who has started 19 games in four seasons, and played in another dozen games or so. There's plenty of tape on him, just like there was tape on part time starter Donald Thomas last year.

 

I could see him bringing in an older vet, just as a stopgap insurance policy for Holmes. I'm starting to warm up to that idea as well.

 

It's time to let McGlynn go. He's a FA, and he hasn't played well here. It's one thing to let a cheap veteran finish his contract, and it's another to re-sign him.

 

Fixing the interior line play has to be priority #1. Can't keep treating it like a chemistry experiment. I firmly believe that good line play takes time, and sometimes very average players can combine to make a good blocking unit, but Satele and McGlynn are very below average. They need to leave town.

If McGlynn is brought back as the vet insurance I'll understand it, because we won games with him at center, but it sure feels like there are more talented stop gaps perpetually in the market.  That said, I've never seen an actual grade of McGlynn at center in his 2 years hear (~5 games?), only anectodal analysis, and I certainly couldn't offer one.  Maybe the tape says that he is a plus performer at center for all I know.

[DougDew]

I believe McGlynn has been quoted as saying that he does not expect to be back. He probably knows more about it than anybody.

[coltsfanatic24]

I was saying that if we do pay good money for a C i want it to be a proven veteran not a guy who only played for 1 year, Holmes would still be on his rookie contract. 

 

From what I've seen, BdlP is benefiting tremendously from having Jahri Evans and Ben Grubbs on either side of him. He's not very powerful in the running game, but he does well in the passing game.

 

I'm more concerned about having a good run blocker at center, someone who can open up holes in the middle. The pass blocking will be fine, I think. 

 

BdlP is definitely a more proven player, and as such, is going to cost more. If the money was the same, I'd go with him. But I think Hawley will be available for half the cost.

 

And then I'm kind of confused at how you see BdlP as being more proven, but then default back to Holmes over someone who at least has playing time in the NFL.

[Superman]

I was saying that if we do pay good money for a C i want it to be a proven veteran not a guy who only played for 1 year, Holmes would still be on his rookie contract. 

 

What's good money? That's really the only reason Hawley is coming up. If money weren't an issue, we'd all be 100% on Mack. He and EDS probably won't leave their teams. BdlP will probably get good money as the only top tier FA center in his prime -- assuming the above is true on Mack and EDS. So if you're talking about $6m/year for BdlP, probably a five year deal, that's a significant tax for a "proven veteran."

 

That's where Hawley comes up. If he can be had for three years, $9m, with less guaranteed money, he'd be a younger, less expensive option. I think he's clearly better than Satele and McGlynn. And he's proven enough, on the same level as Donald Thomas was last year. 

 

There's a lot of grey area there. I think everyone agrees we have to get better, but we're all wondering what route Grigson is going to take. Guess we'll all find out in a couple weeks.

[Manning1887]

Interesting, I like it

[ztboiler]

What's good money? That's really the only reason Hawley is coming up. If money weren't an issue, we'd all be 100% on Mack. He and EDS probably won't leave their teams. BdlP will probably get good money as the only top tier FA center in his prime -- assuming the above is true on Mack and EDS. So if you're talking about $6m/year for BdlP, probably a five year deal, that's a significant tax for a "proven veteran."

 

That's where Hawley comes up. If he can be had for three years, $9m, with less guaranteed money, he'd be a younger, less expensive option. I think he's clearly better than Satele and McGlynn. And he's proven enough, on the same level as Donald Thomas was last year. 

 

There's a lot of grey area there. I think everyone agrees we have to get better, but we're all wondering what route Grigson is going to take. Guess we'll all find out in a couple weeks.

 

I've discounted Jon Goodwin as a stop gap believing that San Fran would bring him back., but it sure looks like he will be cheap and and available in light of recent events.  Hawley headlines the second tier, and feels more like a Grigson signing at this point, but it's easy to see Grigs letting it ride until after the draft given the availability of secondary options.

[Valpo2004]

I just hope Grigs gets the right guys at Center and guard to fix this line.  Get those two guys and the line is fixed.  It may not be the best in the NFL but I would think it would be at least top half and it would make our offense even more dangerous.

 

Then honestly we can concentrate on defense.  

[DarkHorseColts]

Cowboys released C Phil Costa:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6355/phil-costa

 

All I know about him is what the Rotoworld link says, which is he's 26 and has 20 starts. Anybody have an opinion about this guy and whether he could help the Colts?

[BrentMc11]

I just hope Grigs gets the right guys at Center and guard to fix this line.  Get those two guys and the line is fixed.  It may not be the best in the NFL but I would think it would be at least top half and it would make our offense even more dangerous.

 

Then honestly we can concentrate on defense.  

Still dreaming of 37-0 vs. 44-43.....just sayin'  

[Valpo2004]

Still dreaming of 37-0 vs. 44-43.....just sayin'  

 

Realistically you are not going to get that many blowouts.  

 

Most of the games are either gonna be 44 - 41 or they are going to be 17 - 14.  Either way a lot of games in the NFL are gonna be 1 score games.  There is just too much parity for any team to realistically win by that much on a consistent basis.  

[Valpo2004]

Cowboys released C Phil Costa:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6355/phil-costa

 

All I know about him is what the Rotoworld link says, which is he's 26 and has 20 starts. Anybody have an opinion about this guy and whether he could help the Colts?

 

Sounds like a career backup.  Maybe he's better then Satele because Satele is just awful, but I don't think he's a fix.  

 

Best case scenario with this guy is we sign him for a couple years on the cheap because there is literally no one better on the market.  Start him, cut Satele, save about 3 million overall and then try to either draft or sign a long term fix at center later on.

 

But this isn't a guy that I think could make our line significantly better and afterwards we still have to replace him.  We're just getting a cheaper version of a bad center and kicking the can down the road a year or 2.  

[BrentMc11]

Realistically you are not going to get that many blowouts.  

 

Most of the games are either gonna be 44 - 41 or they are going to be 17 - 14.  Either way a lot of games in the NFL are gonna be 1 score games.  There is just too much parity for any team to realistically win by that much on a consistent basis.  

And.....so many rules that protect the offense....

[Track Guy]

Just thinking out loud here, but if we don't like the Center market in FA we could always go for Weston Richburg in the draft. I know it's not ideal to bring in a rookie but Richburg is a very durable guy who had a good college career. His play style has been compared to guys like Brad Meester and Evan Dietrich-Smith.

[Valpo2004]

And.....so many rules that protect the offense....

 

Ehh I don't know.  While that has been the complaint for a long time if you look at average scoring (the average of the average scores of every NFL team) it hasn't changed that significantly since post World War 2.  

 

The big spike in scoring actually happened over the 30's and early 40's going from 10.5 in 1935 to 18.7 in 1945.  

 

Interestingly enough the average in 1948 was 23.3.  The average in 2013 was also 23.3.  

 

Now the average has gone up and down over the years.  

 

In the modern era it bottomed out in 1977 at 17.1 points.

 

Now the numbers are on an upswing and have been slowly trending upwards since 1994.  And to be fair 23.3 is the highest it's ever been (although it was that in 1948)  but the point totals have not been totally unheard of either.

 

For example 1965 and 1950 both had higher point averages then 2012.  And all of those bested 2011 but so did '58, 49, and '62.

 

The merger in 1970 was actually a kickoff of a decade long dip in average points that didn't really consistently level off until about 1980.  

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm

[BrentMc11]

Ehh I don't know.  While that has been the complaint for a long time if you look at average scoring (the average of the average scores of every NFL team) it hasn't changed that significantly since post World War 2.  

 

The big spike in scoring actually happened over the 30's and early 40's going from 10.5 in 1935 to 18.7 in 1945.  

 

Interestingly enough the average in 1948 was 23.3.  The average in 2013 was also 23.3.  

 

Now the average has gone up and down over the years.  

 

In the modern era it bottomed out in 1977 at 17.1 points.

 

Now the numbers are on an upswing and have been slowly trending upwards since 1994.  And to be fair 23.3 is the highest it's ever been (although it was that in 1948)  but the point totals have not been totally unheard of either.

 

For example 1965 and 1950 both had higher point averages then 2012.  And all of those bested 2011 but so did '58, 49, and '62.

 

The merger in 1970 was actually a kickoff of a decade long dip in average points that didn't really consistently level off until about 1980.  

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm

Interesting read...Thank you!  

[IndyPhil]

Cowboys released C Phil Costa:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6355/phil-costa

 

All I know about him is what the Rotoworld link says, which is he's 26 and has 20 starts. Anybody have an opinion about this guy and whether he could help the Colts?

 

If I recall correctly he was the starter for Dallas a couple years ago and has struggled with injuries.  He has talent but cant stay on the field. 

[HtownColt]

@caplannfl: #Colts were going to have C Joe Hawley in for a visit had he not re-signed with the #Falcons.

[IndyScribe]

@caplannfl: #Colts were going to have C Joe Hawley in for a visit had he not re-signed with the #Falcons.

First sign of a center. I wonder who's next on the list.

[mintor]

The Falcons are reportedly set to add guard Jon Asamoah as a free agent once they are allowed to officially sign deals.

If they do, it looks like Asamoah will be lining up next to center Joe Hawley. Adam Caplan of ESPN reports that the Falcons have re-signed Hawley to a two-year deal just ahead of Tuesday afternoon’s opening of the free agent market

[ztboiler]

@caplannfl: #Colts were going to have C Joe Hawley in for a visit had he not re-signed with the #Falcons.

Wonder if that is an indicator that we are/were looking past the first tier of FA C's or if we'll now turn to the first tier.  We should know soon enough.  As exciting as the last 24 hours have been, the most intriguing decision for me, as a Colts fan, still lies ahead.

[Valpo2004]

Wonder if that is an indicator that we are/were looking past the first tier of FA C's or if we'll now turn to the first tier.  We should know soon enough.  As exciting as the last 24 hours have been, the most intriguing decision for me, as a Colts fan, still lies ahead.

 

I hope we go after a first tier guy.  Satele was getting like 5 million per year APY and was the 10th highest paid center.

 

It wouldn't cost much to bring in EDS and still be giving him top 10 money.