Espn-'08 Patriots Look Better And Better Sorry State Of Colts Highlights What Bill Belichick Accomplished Without Tom Brady

[bayone]

EXCERPTS

After the Indianapolis Colts' horrid performance Sunday night, the 2008 New England Patriots never looked so good.

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This season's Colts motto already has been established -- "No Peyton Manning, no chance" -- and team president Bill Polian takes the hit for this one, his failure to adequately address the backup quarterback spot making this a lost season in Indianapolis.

For Patriots followers, it should lead to a greater appreciation for what the team accomplished in 2008when Tom Brady sustained a season-ending knee injury on the 15th offensive play of the opening game. The Patriots turned to backup Matt Cassel and finished 11-5 that season. They weren't able to beat the top teams and missed the playoffs, but they were still competitive. At least they had a chance.

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the consistent results in the Bill Belichick era speak loudest.

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That consistent success is something that is highly valued by

Belichick, who has built his Patriots clubs on the foundation of a strong middle class instead of one that has a few stars and a big dropoff.

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For years, the questions were asked: How would the Patriots be different without Brady? And how would the rival Colts be different without Manning?

Now we know, and although he wouldn't admit it publicly, there has to be some validation in the results for Belichick.

http://espn.go.com/b...yESPNToday_Team

Edited October 25, 2011 by bayone

[WSO]

Good article, I hope this doesnt turn into another Manning vs. Brady thread but without a doubt BB knows how to build a team from the bottom up where as the Colts have a few high caliber players and a bunch of UDFAs....(im exaggerating a bit)

Edited October 25, 2011 by ssarow

[bayone]

Good article, I hope this doesnt turn into another Manning vs. Brady thread but without a doubt BB knows how to build a team from the bottom up where as the Colts have a few high caliber players and a bunch of UDFAs....(im exaggerating a bit)

Please no Manning Vs Brady thread and IN agree with u that what u r saying on strategy about building a team is exactly articles point ,

[UMLBB10]

EXCERPTS

They weren't able to beat the top teams and missed the playoffs, but they were still competitive. At least they had a chance.

.

i can remember the second Brady went down 8 minutes into the season, i said out loud, please just be competitive for the rest of the season and give me reason to watch football for the next 16 weeks. Matt Cassell and Belichick came through for me

[Knuckles79]

Is anybody really just finding out the pats have always had a better all around team ! I love my Colts but lets be honest in the last decade have we ever had the best 52 man roster if so please tell me when ! And just my opinion but i dont know of any year not even when we won the SB ! We have had some good teams dont get me wrong but we have been one sided for along time!

[Yehoodi]

Good article, I hope this doesnt turn into another Manning vs. Brady thread but without a doubt BB knows how to build a team from the bottom up where as the Colts have a few high caliber players and a bunch of UDFAs....(im exaggerating a bit)

Agreed, I hope this doesn't become a TB v. PM debate, but at the same time I hope it doesn't turn into BB lovefest and the BB is the be all and end all of the Pats, and a "No BB no Wins for Pats" thread either . . .

nice article and thanks for posting, I like Mike Riess he is a local guy, altho I don't always agree with our local writers . ..

I like Matt Cassel and '08 was a frustrating season for me, you kind of felt you could win some games but perhaps in the back of your head you did not think you were a SB contender, but yet close . . . as I have mentioned in other threads, Cassel did a great job and if he were allowed to replay the season maybe we go 12-4 . . . indeed had we beaten Pitt we would have been the #2 seed, and in IMO had the inside track to the SB . . . notwstanding Cassel poor play in the playoffs last year

but the 2008 season has alot to do many things beyond BB, we still had our defense, altho it was getting older and on its last legs, had an easy schedule and a qualtiy backup in Cassel, and for me the difference between a backup and a starter is only above 2-3 wins, indeed had TB played we probably win between 12-15 games . . . so just 1-4 more . . .

. . . its nice to have a good backup but they do come at a price . . , for example whilst we still had TB/Cassel, we drafted in the 3rd round Kevin O'Connel, who was release/cut in threes years and only played a few snaps, so there goes a 3rd round pick that could of been used elsewhere . . .and we drafted Mallet in the 3rd round to sit behind Hoyer and TB . . . i like having depth and don't mind spending a 3rd rounder (especially if he may replace TB in 3 years or so), but if TB keeps playing, and Mallet is released or let go, then there goes anotehr 3rd round, personally I do not mind using picks to have depth at QB . . .

. . . Cassel did a great job, but we did have a good team around him, easy schedule and BB/McDaniels on the sidlines . . .

[JimJaime]

Great article. I (as a Pats fan) always believed this team will be competitive as long as BB is running the show, '08 justified that belief. I feel for the Colts Fans AND the Colts coach. I feel for Caldwell because he has no say in who they draft and is stuck with what they give him, for my arch nemesis colt fans because I still remember our 1-15 year and how much it stunk and wouldnt wish that on ANYONE!

[dynasty13]

Agreed, I hope this doesn't become a TB v. PM debate, but at the same time I hope it doesn't turn into BB lovefest and the BB is the be all and end all of the Pats, and a "No BB no Wins for Pats" thread either . . .

nice article and thanks for posting, I like Mike Riess he is a local guy, altho I don't always agree with our local writers . ..

I like Matt Cassel and '08 was a frustrating season for me, you kind of felt you could win some games but perhaps in the back of your head you did not think you were a SB contender, but yet close . . . as I have mentioned in other threads, Cassel did a great job and if he were allowed to replay the season maybe we go 12-4 . . . indeed had we beaten Pitt we would have been the #2 seed, and in IMO had the inside track to the SB . . . notwstanding Cassel poor play in the playoffs last year

but the 2008 season has alot to do many things beyond BB, we still had our defense, altho it was getting older and on its last legs, had an easy schedule and a qualtiy backup in Cassel, and for me the difference between a backup and a starter is only above 2-3 wins, indeed had TB played we probably win between 12-15 games . . . so just 1-4 more . . .

. . . its nice to have a good backup but they do come at a price . . , for example whilst we still had TB/Cassel, we drafted in the 3rd round Kevin O'Connel, who was release/cut in threes years and only played a few snaps, so there goes a 3rd round pick that could of been used elsewhere . . .and we drafted Mallet in the 3rd round to sit behind Hoyer and TB . . . i like having depth and don't mind spending a 3rd rounder (especially if he may replace TB in 3 years or so), but if TB keeps playing, and Mallet is released or let go, then there goes anotehr 3rd round, personally I do not mind using picks to have depth at QB . . .

. . . Cassel did a great job, but we did have a good team around him, easy schedule and BB/McDaniels on the sidlines . . .

The '08 season was one of the more 'fun' seasons I can remember as a fan...excusing of course the '07 season. I enjoyed watching us win in ways we werent used to, and I was upset watching us lose in ways I hadnt seen for a while. It was fun watching a quarterback run for a first down when he couldnt find the 3rd option...and it was upsetting watching us unable to compete with the top teams in the league. But the up and down made it fun...it kept us on our toes as fans. I shared your frustration about not really believing we were a Superbowl contender and knowing that had Brady been in there, the potential was there to be something great. I remember KraftyBob running around here in '07 saying things like 'get ready for the Pats to go 38-0'...and to be completely honest, midway through the '07 season that looked like a very real possibility. Looking ahead at that historically weak 2008 schedule left no reason to believe that the Patriots werent in position to do something very special over that 2007-2008 period. But funny things happen...history had no place for this team and instead it gave us 'the catch', 'the injury'...and we've never been the same since.

But I agree with everything else you said in your post. One of the things Ive always been proud of with this team is there ability to overcome devastating injuries. Bledsoe goes down, we go on to win the Superbowl. Ty Law goes down and we put Troy Brown on defense, we win 17 games and another Superbowl. Brady goes down and they win 11 games. . Its not easy to 'prepare' for the unforseen....but Bill Belichick has always been a master at that. Brady never played in the '08 preseason, and Cassell looked god-aweful in those games. But when Brady went down, Cassel came in and knew it was 'his team'...and they changed the gameplans to fit his strengths. Thats what Im not seeing from this Colts team. They had no faith in Painter, so they went out and got Collins. It was never 'Painter's team'...and now that hes forced to play, the team looks lifeless out there. They refused to have a contingency plan, and are now stuck with a system built for Peyton Manning instead of playing towards Painter's strengths, and they're now left standing around with a collective ' wth' face.

The abysmal struggles of this years Colts team have less to do with Peyton Manning's actual absense than they do with the way they've been built, their refusal to plan for life without one guy, and the organization's overall inability to adapt to unforseen situations. Fans here the last few years have blamed the shortfalls on injuries. Thats part of it...but there are plenty of teams who went on to win with crippling injuries. Thats part of the Colt's issues. They can never seem to get by if a guy gets hurt. Any team that loses their starting quarterback is going to fall back...but the Colts struggles seem to be beyong an issue of personnel...its coaching and management.

Edited October 25, 2011 by dynasty13

[No 1 Manning Fan]

This is just further evidence that the Colts have relied too much on Manning and the offensive product he puts on the field. Whereas the Patriots consistently develop all facets of their team. the Pats may stumble now and then, but they find a way to be competitive even when they lose marquee players or when they don't pan out.

[gspdx]

Yep - the Pats org top to bottom has done a better job of being balanced and competitive. When a back up QB with no starts in College or Pros has to come in a take over, and guides the team to an 11-5 record, that really says something about the whole org. Everybody stepped up.

The Colts are so dependent on what PM does that the loss can't be overcome. But I think we knew this all along, didn't we?

[JimJaime]

Yep - the Pats org top to bottom has done a better job of being balanced and competitive. When a back up QB with no starts in College or Pros has to come in a take over, and guides the team to an 11-5 record, that really says something about the whole org. Everybody stepped up.

The Colts are so dependent on what PM does that the loss can't be overcome. But I think we knew this all along, didn't we?

But doesnt it speak volumes on how the colts FO failed misrably to put a good team around Manning? I mean if they had they should be able to tread water at least (say a 5 win season at least.) Also they are obviously AWFUL at evaluating Back-up QB talent. (Cassel was a 7th round pick and Hoyer is an UDFA who IMO be better than painter.)

[joo 2h]

whats sup with all these pat fans on the colts fan site? Dont get me wrong, but seriously this fourm and this section is for colts discussion only.

[GoDeep]

whats sup with all these pat fans on the colts fan site? Dont get me wrong, but seriously this fourm and this section is for colts discussion only.

You must be new.

[joo 2h]

No im not new, I just dont log into my account and post much.

i view the site on my iphone almost daily

I just like to see some more Colt conversation and discussion going on, then the 08 pats and how great BB is as a coach. I love Bill, hes sure of a heck alot better of a coach then Jim caldwell and knows how to run a team right, but still........

Edited October 25, 2011 by joo 2h

[Yehoodi]

whats sup with all these pat fans on the colts fan site? Dont get me wrong, but seriously this fourm and this section is for colts discussion only.

hey there joo . . . i hear yah . .. but this thread does have something to do with comparting the '08 pats and the '11 colts and references an article written for ESPN Boston . . . i think one would like some insight on the pats '08 season from a pats fan and to give some insight into the article posted . . . just a thought . . .

EDIT: And you never know one of us Pats fan might show up at your house on Halloween dress up as a Pats fan buhahahahah . . . .j/k . . . :tears:

EDIT2: Or better yet show up in a grey hoodie with a head set on asking/saying "trick or treat" . . . and "are there another other questions, if not we are moving on to the next house?"

Edited October 25, 2011 by Yehoodi

[GoDeep]

No im not new, I just dont log into my account and post much.

i view the site on my iphone almost daily

I've been around this forum in its many forms since 2005. There are some well respected Pats fans here, one is even a mod now.

[joo 2h]

hey there joo . . . i hear yah . .. but this thread does have something to do with comparting the '08 pats and the '11 colts and references an article written for ESPN Boston . . . i think one would like some insight on the pats '08 season from a pats fan and to give some insight into the article posted . . . just a thought . . .

EDIT: And you never know one of us Pats fan might show up at your house on Halloween dress up as a Pats fan buhahahahah . . . .j/k . . . :tears:

ok I guess your right. Ths article does have to do with the colts so, i guess this is ok

[GoDeep]

Such a great rivalry (well, until we lose by 100 in 2011). Having these guys here just helps the rivalry

[-JJ-]

whats sup with all these pat fans on the colts fan site? Dont get me wrong, but seriously this fourm and this section is for colts discussion only.

The forum and its' sub-forums is for all fans. Colts related threads belong in the colts forum but that forum too is for all fans as long as colts related.

The thread you question is probably debatable which forum it belongs in, colts forum or general forum, in that it touches on both teams.

I can move it to the general forum if you like.

[GoDeep]

The forum and its' sub-forums is for all fans. Colts related threads belong in the colts forum but that forum too is for all fans as long as colts related.

The thread you question is probably debatable which forum it belongs in, colts forum or general forum, in that it touches on both teams.

I can move it to the general forum if you like.

JJ - I think it is very Colts related!

[chad72]

It is fine where it is, thanks for sharing the article!!!

This Colts team will not be winless, I guarantee, with BB and his coaches coaching, IMO.

[joo 2h]

The forum and its' sub-forums is for all fans. Colts related threads belong in the colts forum but that forum too is for all fans as long as colts related.

The thread you question is probably debatable which forum it belongs in, colts forum or general forum, in that it touches on both teams.

I can move it to the general forum if you like.

i think if you moved it to the general forum it would be better there, thanks

[-JJ-]

Well I compromised. I moved it to the general forum but left the link on the colts forum so it still shows up there.

Hope everyone is happy:)

[Yehoodi]

No im not new, I just dont log into my account and post much.

i view the site on my iphone almost daily

I just like to see some more Colt conversation and discussion going on, then the 08 pats and how great BB is as a coach. I love Bill, hes sure of a heck alot better of a coach then Jim caldwell and knows how to run a team right, but still........

Joo, i hear yah . . . but we got plenty of colts stuff going on . . . draft talk, PM's health, FO issues, Coahing issues, on and on . . .

and to be truthful, the article is really about the colts to a degree. . . to the extent that it compares how the colts are doing without a star QB with a similiar and recent situation in NE in '08 and discussing how the two teams/FO/coaches handle the situation . .. and how they biuld their respective teams and the effect of each losing its star QB . . .

[coltscole88]

This falls completely on the coaches, when peyton was playing he ran the offense (literally came to practice with his own clipboard) so now that the real O coordinator is gone they have the guy who coached the wide recievers and that is no working out. For the past three years they have had the same D coordinator and the defense has been horrible with the wide 9 and cover 2 schemes without big and smart linebackers (poor draft choices for the past few years) but the excuse is its okay peyton will put up enough points to make up for it well that is not okay you should strive to be the best so that is not working out for them. Is there any spark in the special teams I do not even think they practice because there is no blocking schemes for the return. the running game has been bad since a talented running back left (ederin james) and now we have subpar running backs with a bad O line but its okay becasue peyton will get the ball off when they pass (most of the time) in less than 3 seconds so you dont need a running game which has been a problem for a long time. Finally the head coach, what does he contribute he was just given the job off of peytons success now that he is gone the true colors show of the colts and as a fan I am so disapointed to see that a one man organization is a reality for the colts. Solution start over from scratch hire real talented coaches who seem to care. Its not an excuse for a team that will always make the playoffs go winless in one year NO EXCUSE think of what peyton could accomplish with a good team and coaches like New England

[GoPats]

The one game the Patriots should have won in '08 (and would have vaulted them into the playoffs) was the second match-up with Favre and the Jets that they lost in OT. Cassel brought them back from a 4th quarter deficit with a beautiful TD pass to Moss. The Jets came out in OT and converted a 3rd-and-14 (I think) to a somehow wide open Dustin Keller. Terrible time to have a terrible coverage breakdown.

Ironically, back in 2003 and 2004, most people saw the Colts as the far more talented team, overall. I'm pretty sure they were favored in both of the Indy-NE playoff games in those seasons.

[bayone]

This falls completely on the coaches, when peyton was playing he ran the offense (literally came to practice with his own clipboard) so now that the real O coordinator is gone they have the guy who coached the wide recievers and that is no working out. For the past three years they have had the same D coordinator and the defense has been horrible with the wide 9 and cover 2 schemes without big and smart linebackers (poor draft choices for the past few years) but the excuse is its okay peyton will put up enough points to make up for it well that is not okay you should strive to be the best so that is not working out for them. Is there any spark in the special teams I do not even think they practice because there is no blocking schemes for the return. the running game has been bad since a talented running back left (ederin james) and now we have subpar running backs with a bad O line but its okay becasue peyton will get the ball off when they pass (most of the time) in less than 3 seconds so you dont need a running game which has been a problem for a long time. Finally the head coach, what does he contribute he was just given the job off of peytons success now that he is gone the true colors show of the colts and as a fan I am so disapointed to see that a one man organization is a reality for the colts. Solution start over from scratch hire real talented coaches who seem to care. Its not an excuse for a team that will always make the playoffs go winless in one year NO EXCUSE think of what peyton could accomplish with a good team and coaches like New England

Often Clocked at 1.7 Seconds last year

[gspdx]

But doesnt it speak volumes on how the colts FO failed misrably to put a good team around Manning? I mean if they had they should be able to tread water at least (say a 5 win season at least.) Also they are obviously AWFUL at evaluating Back-up QB talent. (Cassel was a 7th round pick and Hoyer is an UDFA who IMO be better than painter.)

And Tom Brady was a 6th round pick, right? People usually say the defense was built to play with a lead and then the Tampa 2 - bend but don't break - defense works. But I've seen too many games where the offense had to make a last minute scoring drive or didn't get time to make a last minute drive because the defense couldn't get an important stop on a 3rd down.

So I do suspect either the scheme or the ability of the management to evaluate talent or both. I'm jsut not sure.

[bayone]

And Tom Brady was a 6th round pick, right? People usually say the defense was built to play with a lead and then the Tampa 2 - bend but don't break - defense works. But I've seen too many games where the offense had to make a last minute scoring drive or didn't get time to make a last minute drive because the defense couldn't get an important stop on a 3rd down.

So I do suspect either the scheme or the ability of the management to evaluate talent or both. I'm jsut not sure.

Peyton had 7- 4th qrtr Comebacks during the 14-0 run till we pulled starters Vs Jets & Bills that season

[patsallday]

The one game the Patriots should have won in '08 (and would have vaulted them into the playoffs) was the second match-up with Favre and the Jets that they lost in OT. Cassel brought them back from a 4th quarter deficit with a beautiful TD pass to Moss. The Jets came out in OT and converted a 3rd-and-14 (I think) to a somehow wide open Dustin Keller. Terrible time to have a terrible coverage breakdown.

Ironically, back in 2003 and 2004, most people saw the Colts as the far more talented team, overall. I'm pretty sure they were favored in both of the Indy-NE playoff games in those seasons.

that game was so exciting to watch, even though we lost it will always stand out to me.