Offensive plays

[sfergson727]

I was watching the Seattle game last night, and was struck by the Seattle offenses ability to move Wilson around, and complete some amazing passes.  We USED to do that.  Now we dink and dunk, and putter around, more often starting at 1st and 10, 2nd and 9 and then 3 and 8 or worse (penalties, sacks) and then punt.

 

We have no O-line, or receivers that can get open, and we have a OC who has as much skill and imagination as a potato.

 

Unfortunately, in Seattle and Indy, we have two second year quarterbacks who are moving in opposite directions.  I hope...no.....THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE!!!

[Smonroe]

Okay.  I'll get right on it.

 

Should I fix the ObamaCare website while I'm at it?

[sfergson727]

Absolutely!  Or repeal one of them, not both...I think our team is salvageable, but probably not this season.

[Smonroe]

Yep, Seattle looked really good.  Unbeatable.

 

Oops, I just checked their record.  They do have a loss!  Imagine that.

[sfergson727]

You don't honestly think we would beat them again in our current state do you?

[Smonroe]

You don't honestly think we would beat them again in our current state do you?

 

Besides Reggie, we have basically the same team we had when we beat them. 

 

Sorry, I always get sarcastic when someone puts up a "doom and gloom" post.  It's like they've abandoned all hope and want everyone else to join them.  Or that they're the only people who realize we aren't the best team in the league and are demanding something be done about it. 

 

Complaining may help you blow off steam, if that's your intent then I hope it helped you.  Other than that, what was the purpose of the post?  I'm not trying to be snarky, but if you want to have a discussion let us know what you want to talk about.

[sfergson727]

It did help blow off some steam, and I am better for it.....

 

but, the point of the post was that Seattle has a scheme that get's the most out of their second year quarterback.  What does our offensive scheme get us?  I fear that Luck's considerable talent is wasted under our current offensive philosophy.

[atapcl]

We have Rainey and Rogers that we can develop over the next 4 weeks and they have outstanding athletic ability. Irsay, Pagano, and Griggs do not want Luck running much so it limits what an OC can do. I do believe we have to chip the DEs or Rush LBs to help out our tackles. Fleener and Havili could be used to chip the outside DEs and DB/Trent would have to pick up people the guards miss to give Luck more time.

[Archangel]

The colts should open the game with the same formation bunch they used on last series in a hurry up. They were using a extra tackle 1 TE, 2 WR and a fullback. IMO this when the ol was at its best and kept the titans defense spread out. 

[sfergson727]

The colts should open the game with the same formation bunch they used on last series in a hurry up. They were using a extra tackle 1 TE, 2 WR and a fullback. IMO this when the ol was at its best and kept the titans defense spread out. 

Agreed, we need to open it up as much as possible....no more conservative plans.

[sfergson727]

I don't know how much leverage Luck has at the line to change the play, but I think he has the mental capacity to play the game similar to Manning.  It would be nice to let him develop into the on the field OC, as Manning did.  That seemed to work pretty well for us in the past.

[Tark The Shark]

Seattle has a better offensive line than our team. 

 

Given another chance against this current Colts team, I don't see us winning.

 

In most instances, I have learned that guys in a new offensive system, it takes about 3 years for guys to fully learn and understand everything thrown at them.

[Creekside]

 

 

Should I fix the ObamaCare website while I'm at it?

 

Is there something wrong with it? I've not heard anything about it...................

[NewEra]

Okay. I'll get right on it.

Should I fix the ObamaCare website while I'm at it?

No, just put that crap out to pasture!

[Mameluc]

the thing is, is not like seattle has this amazing WR set. I mean they are fine, they all can play but no one jumps out as a potential star. why cant Pep get the WR on better positions to win their matches.

[CS Colts Fan]

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• Member
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Posted Today, 06:14 AM

I was watching the Seattle game last night, and was struck by the Seattle offenses ability to move Wilson around, and complete some amazing passes.  We USED to do that.  Now we dink and dunk, and putter around, more often starting at 1st and 10, 2nd and 9 and then 3 and 8 or worse (penalties, sacks) and then punt.

 

was saying/thinking the same thing during the game... to me our big problem is the OC calls / scheme ... then add in our in ept Oline, lack of targets and the stubbornness of the coaching staff to plan ways to use our strengths / talent at this time to make us a more formidable Offensive threat...

 

I know we started to change things up Sunday, but did we really???? Da"Rick was only targeted once ... 

 

as I have asked and said if our receivers are not getting only to me it is coaching, cause I don't buy that none of them can't get open...... and if it is players then are scouts and coaching staff leaves me with much larger concern.

 

I believe we have the talent to make the offense work more efficient, but I truly believe we need to get off the power run philosophy and pass more which in turn will open up the run game which in turn makes for a balanced attack.

 

to me Luck has not looked as confident the last few weeks and you can also see it in his passing.. 

 

 

 

[sfergson727]

Yeah, I am leaning more towards a coaching issue than personnel issue. (no surprise to many, I'm sure)  I like Chuck, but his choices can occasionally be questioned, and his staff.....well, the evidence of our offensive woes speaks volumes.  

 

Bottom line, I think we need to find a great offensive mind for OC and his name is not Pep.

[BrentMc11]

Besides Reggie, we have basically the same team we had when we beat them. 

 

Sorry, I always get sarcastic when someone puts up a "doom and gloom" post.  It's like they've abandoned all hope and want everyone else to join them.  Or that they're the only people who realize we aren't the best team in the league and are demanding something be done about it. 

 

Complaining may help you blow off steam, if that's your intent then I hope it helped you.  Other than that, what was the purpose of the post?  I'm not trying to be snarky, but if you want to have a discussion let us know what you want to talk about.

It blows my mind when one player goes down and all hell breaks loose.  Just like when Peyton was done for 2011.  We had the same team other than the QB (OK Painter WAS the back-up)    I have said this before here, but it still sends chills down my spine as to how prophetic it was.  I will never forget Bill Parcells saying.  "Peyton Manning is out for the year.  It gives the Colts an 'excuse to lose.'

 

I thought at the time "No Way...we will fight and claw and have a decent record"....then 0-14......2-16....feeling the same way with Reggie being out...do we have that 'excuse to lose?'

[sfergson727]

It blows my mind when one player goes down and all hell breaks loose. Just like when Peyton was done for 2011. We had the same team other than the QB (OK Painter WAS the back-up) I have said this before here, but it still sends chills down my spine as to how prophetic it was. I will never forget Bill Parcells saying. "Peyton Manning is out for the year. It gives the Colts an 'excuse to lose.'

I thought at the time "No Way...we will fight and claw and have a decent record"....then 0-14......2-16....feeling the same way with Reggie being out...do we have that 'excuse to lose?'

Good question. Who'd of thunk one receiver would be the only one on this team who could get open and actually (gasp) catch the ball. I don't think we can pin this on the loss of Reggie. It goes much deeper, but it is easier to pull the Reggie card than address the tougher, deeper issues and admit mistakes were made.

[Smonroe]

It blows my mind when one player goes down and all hell breaks loose.  Just like when Peyton was done for 2011.  We had the same team other than the QB (OK Painter WAS the back-up)    I have said this before here, but it still sends chills down my spine as to how prophetic it was.  I will never forget Bill Parcells saying.  "Peyton Manning is out for the year.  It gives the Colts an 'excuse to lose.'

 

I thought at the time "No Way...we will fight and claw and have a decent record"....then 0-14......2-16....feeling the same way with Reggie being out...do we have that 'excuse to lose?'

 

It's funny Brent, I just posted about this in another thread.  Losing their second most important player on offense is going to effect any team.  It's nice to say "next man up", and that usually applies 90% of the time.  But there's no next man up for future HoFamers.

 

I don't like the phrase 'excuse to lose', but people shouldn't expect it to be easy to replace a Manning, Adrian Peterson, Aaron Rodgers, etc.  Losing Reggie may not be the same impact, but it's close.

[BrentMc11]

Good question. Who'd of thunk one receiver would be the only one on this team who could get open and actually (gasp) catch the ball. I don't think we can pin this on the loss of Reggie. It goes much deeper, but it is easier to pull the Reggie card than address the tougher, deeper issues and admit mistakes were made.

It should not effect all 3 phases of the game for sure....even tough AV and the special teams did OK other than the one run back by Washington that there was a blatant 'block in the back' not called....

[jmac_48]

If we have an 'excuse to lose' because of losing Reggie,

Then the future is none too bright.

 

I've seen many "OFFENSIVE PLAYS" this season, If we don't fix the O-line,

Then the future is none too bright.

 

We may be just playing out the string this year, we may get hot just in time... who knows.

 

I am optimistic about this team maybe sooner than some expect, many good pieces already in place.

This is year two of a rebuild!

As Coach says it's a process...

[BrentMc11]

It's funny Brent, I just posted about this in another thread.  Losing their second most important player on offense is going to effect any team.  It's nice to say "next man up", and that usually applies 90% of the time.  But there's no next man up for future HoFamers.

 

I don't like the phrase 'excuse to lose', but people shouldn't expect it to be easy to replace a Manning, Adrian Peterson, Aaron Rodgers, etc.  Losing Reggie may not be the same impact, but it's close.

I will have to check your post out (Do you remember the thread?)

 

At this point I want a WR who catches passes consistently, runs nice crisp routes, and knows where the yard marker is.  Andrew needs to know where that marker is as well to get those precious 3rd down conversions.

 

No better example than Blair White coming in and running said routes...catching...and getting key first downs for Peyton.  I am amazed have not gotten THAT kind of possession guy.  

[Thewholefnshow28]

Why would we want to put the ball in our best players hand when we can continue to pretend we are this power running team? 

[BrentMc11]

Why would we want to put the ball in our best players hand when we can continue to pretend we are this power running team? 

 We can chant ReGIE...ReGIE....ReGIE until the cows come home......he aint a comin back

[Thewholefnshow28]

 We can chant ReGIE...ReGIE....ReGIE until the cows come home......he aint a comin back

 

I was referring to Andrew Luck.  

[BrentMc11]

I was referring to Andrew Luck.  

Gotcha!  I agree by the way....

[Superman]

We have Rainey and Rogers that we can develop over the next 4 weeks and they have outstanding athletic ability. Irsay, Pagano, and Griggs do not want Luck running much so it limits what an OC can do. I do believe we have to chip the DEs or Rush LBs to help out our tackles. Fleener and Havili could be used to chip the outside DEs and DB/Trent would have to pick up people the guards miss to give Luck more time.

 

After watching Seattle play, that bolded part is the worst reasoning. This isn't directed at you, it's directed at the Colts brain trust. Our QB gets hit far more often than Wilson does, despite the Seahawks calling ten times as many designed QB keepers. Wilson gets out in space, and is smart enough to get himself down or out of bounds before he gets hit. Even on his read option plays, he doesn't take a lot of contact. You can weaponize your QB as a running threat AND keep him from taking hits, and if you do so, you actually take pressure off of your offensive line. The Seahawks do this partly to get Wilson away from the big defensive linemen so that he can make throws without having the ball batted down, but it has other benefits as well.

 

Instead, we have Luck stand behind a leaky pass protection unit like a statue, we don't encourage him to pull the ball down and run with it, and he still takes a bunch of abuse. I'd rather have Luck get hit by a corner or a linebacker than have four 300 pound linemen crashing on top of him in the pocket. 

 

Our offense needs to run more bootlegs, naked bootlegs, a handful of designed keepers (read option or not, doesn't matter), etc. This will allow us to move the pocket, it will make things easier on the offensive line, it will help the QB see the field better, it will help the receivers get separation, it will keep the safeties and linebackers honest... There's no question the Seahawks have a better offensive line than the Colts, but ironically, their schemes do more to take pressure off of their linemen than ours do. It's a double advantage.

 

We also need more quick hitters in the passing game. Our passing concepts are practically the same as they were under Arians, and I have the exact same complaints. We're sending average receivers on deep routes 75% of the time, when we need to be running route combinations that have the potential to get them open sooner. Slants, picks, rubs, etc. Both the Saints and Seahawks did plenty of this last night. The Titans did it to us in both games this year. The Broncos make a living off of these concepts. We especially need to do this on third down, even third and medium or long. Give your playmakers a chance to make a play with the ball in their hands. Don't just rely on them to shake coverage past the first down marker. We can still take our shots down the field, but we need efficiency in the passing game.

 

We need to get the ball to our running backs out on the edges, both in the pass game and in the run game. And I'm not just talking about screens. We need dumpoffs, flare patterns, stretch handoffs, etc. We need fewer power tosses. We can still have a power run game and try to pound the ball in between the tackles. That's very important. But it's not the only way to establish a rushing attack.

 

Our offensive schemes are not putting our players in the best position to succeed. There are simple tweaks we can make to the rushing attack and the passing concepts. We don't have to scrap everything we've been working on all year. But without some adjustments, everything we've been working on is doomed to failure. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Oh how I desire for Tom Moore to be here coaching up Luck, and designing and calling O plays...

[sfergson727]

After watching Seattle play, that bolded part is the worst reasoning. This isn't directed at you, it's directed at the Colts brain trust. Our QB gets hit far more often than Wilson does, despite the Seahawks calling ten times as many designed QB keepers. Wilson gets out in space, and is smart enough to get himself down or out of bounds before he gets hit. Even on his read option plays, he doesn't take a lot of contact. You can weaponize your QB as a running threat AND keep him from taking hits, and if you do so, you actually take pressure off of your offensive line. The Seahawks do this partly to get Wilson away from the big defensive linemen so that he can make throws without having the ball batted down, but it has other benefits as well.

 

Instead, we have Luck stand behind a leaky pass protection unit like a statue, we don't encourage him to pull the ball down and run with it, and he still takes a bunch of abuse. I'd rather have Luck get hit by a corner or a linebacker than have four 300 pound linemen crashing on top of him in the pocket. 

 

Our offense needs to run more bootlegs, naked bootlegs, a handful of designed keepers (read option or not, doesn't matter), etc. This will allow us to move the pocket, it will make things easier on the offensive line, it will help the QB see the field better, it will help the receivers get separation, it will keep the safeties and linebackers honest... There's no question the Seahawks have a better offensive line than the Colts, but ironically, their schemes do more to take pressure off of their linemen than ours do. It's a double advantage.

 

We also need more quick hitters in the passing game. Our passing concepts are practically the same as they were under Arians, and I have the exact same complaints. We're sending average receivers on deep routes 75% of the time, when we need to be running route combinations that have the potential to get them open sooner. Slants, picks, rubs, etc. Both the Saints and Seahawks did plenty of this last night. The Titans did it to us in both games this year. The Broncos make a living off of these concepts. We especially need to do this on third down, even third and medium or long. Give your playmakers a chance to make a play with the ball in their hands. Don't just rely on them to shake coverage past the first down marker. We can still take our shots down the field, but we need efficiency in the passing game.

 

We need to get the ball to our running backs out on the edges, both in the pass game and in the run game. And I'm not just talking about screens. We need dumpoffs, flare patterns, stretch handoffs, etc. We need fewer power tosses. We can still have a power run game and try to pound the ball in between the tackles. That's very important. But it's not the only way to establish a rushing attack.

 

Our offensive schemes are not putting our players in the best position to succeed. There are simple tweaks we can make to the rushing attack and the passing concepts. We don't have to scrap everything we've been working on all year. But without some adjustments, everything we've been working on is doomed to failure. 

100% agree

[BrentMc11]

I liked Superman's post above, and wanted to say why without quoting the entire post:  This and more:  

 

"Our offense needs to run more bootlegs, naked bootlegs, a handful of designed keepers (read option or not, doesn't matter), etc. This will allow us to move the pocket, it will make things easier on the offensive line, it will help the QB see the field better, it will help the receivers get separation, it will keep the safeties and linebackers honest... There's no question the Seahawks have a better offensive line than the Colts, but ironically, their schemes do more to take pressure off of their linemen than ours do. It's a double advantage."

 

I have said since Pep arrived the exact same things.  Designed roll-outs are HUGE.  They also keep the lanes open for vision as well as the tipped/batted down pass which hurt us badly against the Titans. 

 

One thing Andrew needs to get back to is sliding like a baseball player instead of head first....that will come back and haunt him!!!

 

Great post above by Superman.

[ericnan]

The biggest concern I have with moving the QB around is an RGIII type thing.  I like to see them move, but don't want to see it every play.  Luck has talent moving around, like Brady, but I agree he needs to avoid hits and needs to slide, he'd probably draw some penalties that way.  All that being said, I hope our coaches get it figured out, and I like what Superman had to say as well.  Good post.

[Superman]

The biggest concern I have with moving the QB around is an RGIII type thing.  I like to see them move, but don't want to see it every play.  Luck has talent moving around, like Brady, but I agree he needs to avoid hits and needs to slide, he'd probably draw some penalties that way.  All that being said, I hope our coaches get it figured out, and I like what Superman had to say as well.  Good post.

 

Griffin takes way more contact than he needs to. He scrambles to a fault, and he doesn't duck out of bounds like Wilson does. He's also slight of build in a way that neither Luck nor Wilson is (Luck is obviously way bigger than both of them). Wilson has just as many rushing attempts as Griffin does, he's just smarter about avoiding contact.

[BrentMc11]

Griffin takes way more contact than he needs to. He scrambles to a fault, and he doesn't duck out of bounds like Wilson does. He's also slight of build in a way that neither Luck nor Wilson is (Luck is obviously way bigger than both of them). Wilson has just as many rushing attempts as Griffin does, he's just smarter about avoiding contact.

Wilson has the PERFECT slide too...made for the rain in Seattle

[Superman]

Wilson has the PERFECT slide too...made for the rain in Seattle

 

He's a baseball player. He's been hook sliding all his life.

[BrentMc11]

He's a baseball player. He's been hook sliding all his life.

Yep!!  Best QB slide in football...

[ColtsBlueFL]

I think poster has a secret worry we have a QB that could be Manning, Rogers, Brady,Brees caliber, but our scheme is turning him into either David Carr 2.0 at worst to Alex Smith 2.0 at best. All the while Russell Wilson is given every opportunity to put up big and efficient numbers and is now considered the top QB of Luck's QB class.  Luck is still considered to be near the top  (largely based upon W-L I'm sure)  and Tannehill, RGIII, and even Cam (still) another notch below that.  

 

It does tend to strike a nerve when your #1 overall pick is being outclassed by someone else's 3rd round pick that had to fight his way into the starter role.

 

Blame Luck, blame Pep. Blame both.  But it is clear we are not using Luck and his weapons to maximum effectiveness.  As atrocious as some of Lucks numbers were last year, he did open eyes and set records under Arians scheme.

[ericnan]

I think poster has a secret worry we have a QB that could be Manning, Rogers, Brady,Brees caliber, but our scheme is turning him into either David Carr 2.0 at worst to Alex Smith 2.0 at best. All the while Russell Wilson is given every opportunity to put up big and efficient numbers and is now considered the top QB of Luck's QB class.  Luck is still considered to be near the top  (largely based upon W-L I'm sure)  and Tannehill, RGIII, and even Cam (still) another notch below that.  

 

It does tend to strike a nerve when your #1 overall pick is being outclassed by someone else's 3rd round pick that had to fight his way into the starter role.

 

Blame Luck, blame Pep. Blame both.  But it is clear we are not using Luck and his weapons to maximum effectiveness.  As atrocious as some of Lucks numbers were last year, he did open eyes and set records under Arians scheme.

I think Seattle is currently put together a bit better than the Colts, at least at the O-line for sure.  Last year, it was all about RGIII vs Luck.  Now it's Wilson vs. Luck?  Who will it be vs. Luck next year?  I'll stay with the constant.  I think Luck will continue to develop and David Carr, or Alex Smith?  Really?  No where near the same caliber in my opinion.

[sfergson727]

 

If we have an 'excuse to lose' because of losing Reggie,

Then the future is none too bright.

 

I've seen many "OFFENSIVE PLAYS" this season, If we don't fix the O-line,

Then the future is none too bright.

 

We may be just playing out the string this year, we may get hot just in time... who knows.

 

I am optimistic about this team maybe sooner than some expect, many good pieces already in place.

This is year two of a rebuild!

As Coach says it's a process...

I see you decoded the double meaning of my title......

[sfergson727]

I think poster has a secret worry we have a QB that could be Manning, Rogers, Brady,Brees caliber, but our scheme is turning him into either David Carr 2.0 at worst to Alex Smith 2.0 at best. All the while Russell Wilson is given every opportunity to put up big and efficient numbers and is now considered the top QB of Luck's QB class.  Luck is still considered to be near the top  (largely based upon W-L I'm sure)  and Tannehill, RGIII, and even Cam (still) another notch below that.  

 

It does tend to strike a nerve when your #1 overall pick is being outclassed by someone else's 3rd round pick that had to fight his way into the starter role.

 

Blame Luck, blame Pep. Blame both.  But it is clear we are not using Luck and his weapons to maximum effectiveness.  As atrocious as some of Lucks numbers were last year, he did open eyes and set records under Arians scheme.

I do have those concerns to be sure.